LEADING. same old problem but I need help

[chboats]

Need some help with leading. I have read every thread I could find on the subject and tried just about every thing. HELP!! Leading starts just ahead of the forcing cone and the more rounds the further up the bore it extends. Leading appears in as little as 5 rounds. This is what I have and what I have done so far. This is long winded but just trying to explain what I have tried.

Ruger SBH 44 25+ years old shot very little

Slugged the barrel. .430 grove

Slugged the throat. .428.5 fire lapped it to 430.5 it took 80 rounds of 220 and 320 lapping compound rolled boolits. Accuracy got much better but leading did not improve.

Measured cylinder throats with pin gauge set..432 snug fit all cylinders.

Lubes tried 50/50 alox/bees wax, BAC, LLA, Felix

I have three 44 molds Saeco 255 gr SWC .432/433 as cast
Saeco 220 gr RFN .430 beagled to .432
An old Lyman 429215 SWC GC .430 beagled to .432

Have tried pan lubing and shooting as cast and sizing and lubing to .432

Have tried boolits cast of scrap lead at bhn 10 to 11. harder alloy of approx 94-4-2 at bhn 15 to 17 and water dropped at bhn 27 to 29.

Loaded boolits then pulled the boolits to confirm that boolits were not being sized by the loading process. Boolits loaded at .4322 and when pulled measured .4321.

Have tried loads ranging from 6 gr of bullseye to 10 gr unique in plain base boolits

The 429215 gas checked boolit over 18gr of 2400 gave the best results as far as leading but the worst accuracy. Accuracy may have been an operator problem. I can usually keep everything inside 4 to 6 inches off hand at 25 yards with the lighter loads.

I have not tried all combinations of boolit hardness, lubes, and loads but leading results are consistent. The water dropped boolits took more rounds for the leading to show up but did lead the barrel.

What have I not tried!! I don’t know what else I can do. I don’t want to have to shoot all GC boolits and don’t think I should have to with a load of 8 gr unique.

HELP

Carl

[2shot]

Do you have a crush fit restriction in the barrel where the barrel is in the frame? I don't know if the older ones do but I know that my 45 Bisley does. Could be the source of the problem from the discription of where you say the leading starts.

2shot

[chboats]

2shot - I know I did have to start with the throat just ahead of the forcing cone slugged at .4285 and and the rest of the barrel slugged at .430 I fire lapped it to .4305 as best as I could measure. Maybe it needs more.

Carl

[MtGun44]

Go bigger on your diameter as a first trial, beagle a bit more to .433 or .434 if they
will fit the chamber. Try the Saeco at .432-.433 over 20 gr 2400 with STANDARD primer.

Keith design at 18-20 gr 2400 with 50-50 lube and .001 to .002 larger than throats
should not lead.

Try slugging again and see if a slug pushed 1/2 way down bbl and then pushed out the
muzzle, gives a different diameter than one driven all the way thru. Looking for a tight
threaded area in barrel. This can size down the boolit and then it will lead the rest of
the bbl. Use a series of short dowels and a piece of board in the frame window to
whack with a mallet outside the frame window. Dowels are dangerous driving in, but
should be strong enough to push one back out where it has already been.

Bill

[chboats]

MtGun44 - I'll give it a try. At this point I'll try almost anything. Will let you know.

Thanks
Carl

[Wally]

I have a Ruger SBH from 1977..it too leads up. I tried most everything. A GC bullet will stop the leading. I use the 429251 & the 429244 Lyman molds. Funny thing is the barrel is at .429" groove diameter & the cylinders chambers at .4295"...pretty tight. It's a bit tough to push a sized .430" bullet through any of the cylinder chambers. But it is an accurate gun. I bought a Freechex .44 Cal GC maker tool and now I can use relatively soft lead bullets with no more leading.

What I used to do was to shoot so many PB bullets (sized to .431")...and run a tight fitting patch of aluminum flyscreen down the barrel---a few push throughs and the barrel fouling was gone. To me it was no big deal and it didn't take all that long.

The Ruger SBH is very accurate using .44 Special ammo...it too will lead it up a bit, but it has no affect on its accuracy.

[Bass Ackward]

1. Slugged the barrel. .430 grove. Slugged the throat. .428.5 fire lapped it to 430.5 it took 80 rounds of 220 and 320 lapping compound rolled boolits. Accuracy got much better but leading did not improve.

2. The 429215 gas checked boolit over 18gr of 2400 gave the best results as far as leading but the worst accuracy. Accuracy may have been an operator problem. I can usually keep everything inside 4 to 6 inches off hand at 25 yards with the lighter loads.

3. What have I not tried!! I don’t know what else I can do. I don’t want to have to shoot all GC boolits and don’t think I should have to with a load of 8 gr unique.

HELP

Carl


Carl,

I have cut to the chase. It starts with the first statement that I left above about 220 to 320 grit. Then the next clue is the second step where leading is the least with the GC. And finally the third where you aught to be able to shoot pure lead for hundreds of rounds without a problem.

Drum Roll please .................................................. Now, you are fire lapping your bullets!!!

There is a good chance that you have embedded grit in the bore surface. Not all grit is adequate or even acceptable for fire lapping. Even if you don't, you have an interior finish that is probably comparable to broom finished concrete. Don't worry, it will correct itself either way.

At this point you have lost patience. Don't try a bunch of stuff until a good control load begins to work without leading. I would use the 8 grains of Unique, mold like a rock, and blaze away. Just as you do, hum that old Michael Jackson song entitled, "Just Shoot It". Here are the lyrics.

Just shoot it! Just shoot it!
Any day or night,
At dawn or thru twilight,
Just shoot it! Just shoot it!

Get a copper brush,
A chore girl is a must,
Use it in between,
Just like you are a machine,
Just shoot it! Just shoot it!

Hundreds of rounds a day,
Stuff'll get out the way,
With cast there are no rules,
You can even use steel wool,
Just shoot it, Just shoot it!

Catch the drift? Just realize that you bore is going to continue to open up. Probably to about .432 once it smooths up and stabilizes. Just shoot it. And use the fine stuff with the steel wool. It will make that bore shine again!

[2shot]

Good poit BA.

I was just going to suggest that he try polishing the bore because I thought that 320 grit was a bit on the course side.

2shot

[Changeling]

What type of compound or you using (Water based/oil) , how exactly did you use them? Did you switch back and forth or did you use the 220 for how many shots and then the 320 for how many shots.

If Bass Ackward is correct shooting would eventually clear it up. However you might want to try some "J" Bullets and stout charges, that would iron out any embedded metal particles if that is the problem. But if that is the problem why isn't the whole barrel leading.

Not sure but it sounds like there is still an obstruction at the barrel frame connection!

[dubber123]

While I am sure it's at least theoretically possible that some compounds could embed in a bore and or leave a rough finish, both Clover brand, and Permatex brand 320 grit is all I have ever used, and I've firelapped plenty of revolvers lately. As far as a rough surface, the Rugers and S&W's I have done have been left with bores so shiny, it's near painful to look down them with a strong light at the rear. The only barrels I have ever seen shinier have been on high end bench rifles. Every single one has shown a good, to outstanding improvement in both fouling, and accuracy.

[chboats]

Bass Ackwards - I used Wheeler bore lapping kit that I ordered for Midway. The boolits were rolled between two slabs of steel. I first fired 10 at 220 grit and 20 at 320 grit. At that point I went home and slugged the throat again. The 30 rounds took less than 1/2 thou of the at least 1 1/2 thou that I needed to remove. Loaded up 20 of the 220 grit and 30 320 grit and rechecked the throat. It was at .4305 which I thought would be ideal.

I have a Lewis lead remover so it is very easy to remove the lead fowling every 10 to 20 rounds. Just something that if everything is working I shouldn't have to do.

I like BA's idea of "just shoot it" then shoot it some more.

2shot - My choice of 220 and 320 grit was based on a couple of things first Veral of LBT recommends using nothing but 240 grit and second, comments on this forum from members like dubber123

The accuracy has improved a lot. Before I started I couldn't keep 10 rounds in a 12 inch circle at 25 yards. Now the accuracy, if I do my part, is 4 to 6 inchs off hand at 25 yards.

Thanks

Carl

[Char-Gar]

Carl.... Pardon me if I am off base, but I have a gut feeling the problem is not what is between your hands, but what is between your ears.

I am talking about your perceptions and expectations. We throw this term "leading" around without any standard definition or understanding of what that means. When you shoot cast bullets in a sixgun they will almost 100% of the time leave some lead residue in the barrel, just like there will be powder residue. When that lead residue starts to degrade accuracy to a significant degree I call that "leading" .

My test is to take the fired pistol and clamp it in a vise for cleaning. Put a well fitting bronze bore brush ( I like to buy surplus 50 cal at gun shows) on a rod and soak it well with a good powder solvent. I then give the brush about 20 fore and aft (two way) pushes through the barrel. This is followed by solvent wet patches until they come clean. A couple of dry patches and then I look at the bore.

99% of any lead should be gone. There may be a few stubborn spots but almost all will be gone. As far as I am concerned if the pistol is still delivering primo accuracy after 100 rounds and cleans up like above, then I don't have a leading issue. That pistol is good to go. If not then it is time to figure out why not and fix the puppy.

I am talking plain base bullet here. Slap gas check on, and the lead residue will drop to nil from the git go.

Anyway, after 50 years of shooting cast bullets down several hundred sixgun barrels, that is where I am on the subject. The internet is such a sterile thing that basic communication often gets garbled and folks chase their tails for lack of straight forward communication.

I say his, because after reading your post, it seems to me you have covered your bases rather well and should be getting decent results. At least by my understanding of that term, and I suspect there is where the problem is located. Without intending to do so, we may be putting out false standards that are not reachable by ordinary mortals. It is all a matter of perception, interpretation and expectations.

[Bass Ackward]

I also think that one of the big issues related to defining leading is that MANY here are shooting handguns like rifles with very few shots being sent down range per visit. So their expectations when they view their barrels lean toward rifle standards which are much more minimal for fouling. And these are attainable with very slow rates of fire.

But if you shoot revolvers like handguns, with larger round counts a various rates of fire, using PB, then I agree with Charles definition of leading.

This is the main reason that I won't even try PB in a new gun until it has 2000 rounds through it anymore. Just ain't worth it to me. If you aren't leading, which there is still a good chance of, your load status will continue to change until things clean up and stabilize MOST of the time.


Carl,

Use one of the conventional lubes like the Felix and then coat the entire thing heavily with LLA. Since you are shooting over bore diameter, this will expedite the metal removal (smoothing process) since lead will polish steel more often than if you lead up and have lead polishing lead. You may even want to cheat. After you clean, paint your bore with LLA using a Q-Tip. Every little bit helps. Most leading occurs from the first bullet. Can't win fair in life, .... cheat.

[chboats]

Charger
I appreciate your comment but the accuracy does fall off after as little as 10 rounds most of the time 20 to 25 rounds. I use a lewis lead remover and the first pass will pull strips of lead out of the barrel. If I was using hot or even moderately hot loads I agree with you. But when I am using mid level 44 special loads I would expect better. I have a couple of 357s and a 1911 colt auto that I have never had this kind of problem, leading yes but not like this.

Thanks
Carl

[Char-Gar]

Carl... Lots of luck in your efforts. I have nothing more to offer.

[MtGun44]

Please verify that the barrel is not tight in the frame thread area.

You may have fire lapped most of it out but not all.

Bill

[skimmerhead]

mtgun44 you took the words rite outta ma mouth, bingo i know of several guns that had the barrels screwed on too tite and had to be returned to ruger for repairs. i'm not saying thats the fix, but i sure would take a close look after all you've tried.

skimmerhead ps that's a nice looking hog, paw-paw

[chboats]

It sound like everything is pointing to there is still a constriction in the barrel. I am concerned about over doing the fire lapping. How much is too much? I think that for now I will follow Bass Ackward's advice and stick with hard checked boolits for a while and let nature take its course. It's just a little more work loading for it.

Thanks for the help. Will let you know what happens

Carl

[44man]

OH MY, fire lapping to open throats is just wrong. 80 rounds has also opened the barrel. The barrel can still be larger then the throats.
Throats should be hand lapped or reamed.
The safest way to open the tight spot at the threads is to smear a little compound just ahead of the forcing cone and shoot a slow boolit until the restriction is gone.

[Wally]

Carl.... Pardon me if I am off base, but I have a gut feeling the problem is not what is between your hands, but what is between your ears.

I am talking about your perceptions and expectations. We throw this term "leading" around without any standard definition or understanding of what that means. When you shoot cast bullets in a sixgun they will almost 100% of the time leave some lead residue in the barrel, just like there will be powder residue. When that lead residue starts to degrade accuracy to a significant degree I call that "leading" .

My test is to take the fired pistol and clamp it in a vise for cleaning. Put a well fitting bronze bore brush ( I like to buy surplus 50 cal at gun shows) on a rod and soak it well with a good powder solvent. I then give the brush about 20 fore and aft (two way) pushes through the barrel. This is followed by solvent wet patches until they come clean. A couple of dry patches and then I look at the bore.

99% of any lead should be gone. There may be a few stubborn spots but almost all will be gone. As far as I am concerned if the pistol is still delivering primo accuracy after 100 rounds and cleans up like above, then I don't have a leading issue. That pistol is good to go. If not then it is time to figure out why not and fix the puppy.

I am talking plain base bullet here. Slap gas check on, and the lead residue will drop to nil from the git go.

Anyway, after 50 years of shooting cast bullets down several hundred sixgun barrels, that is where I am on the subject. The internet is such a sterile thing that basic communication often gets garbled and folks chase their tails for lack of straight forward communication.

I say his, because after reading your post, it seems to me you have covered your bases rather well and should be getting decent results. At least by my understanding of that term, and I suspect there is where the problem is located. Without intending to do so, we may be putting out false standards that are not reachable by ordinary mortals. It is all a matter of perception, interpretation and expectations.

Well said---I have found what you say to be very true. I use a different method to remove fouling...whatever works. As you stated use a gas check and bye bye fouling... Many don't use them just for nothing. They use them because they work. Seems to me that some guns are prone to leading..that's just the way that it is. If they shoot accurately...I put up with it.

[Wally]

OH MY, fire lapping to open throats is just wrong. 80 rounds has also opened the barrel. The barrel can still be larger then the throats.
Throats should be hand lapped or reamed.
The safest way to open the tight spot at the threads is to smear a little compound just ahead of the forcing cone and shoot a slow boolit until the restriction is gone.

Yes, makes good sense to me---why mess with lapping the cylinder chamber thoats and making them larger.

[canyon-ghost]

Just a couple of ideas from an old man, here. When we talk powder solvent for cast, let's not assume that copper solvent is the same thing. If you use some solvents, the black stuff may be coming from the wire in the brush you use. Mineral spirits (paint thinner) from the lumber yard is good for cast.
Then you tell me that you're trying this with range scrap. It's likely alloyed with linotype and way hard. I'd back up and get some wheelweight, try straight wheelweight, maybe add some pure later for softer bullets(possibly not at all, considering it's a 44 mag with a very likely slow twist that doesn't necessarily eat bullets). But, I'd try fresh wheelweight first. I just always shoot my gas-check molds first, have more faith in them.

With my contenders, I've always started shooting with a light film of oil in the barrel, I just patch some through there when I head to the range. Just my way of taking care of the handgun.

The only lapping compound that I use down the barrel is 500 grit clover, I use it on a patch and do twenty passes at a time to polish. If you believe in firelapping, that's okay, I just don't do it. I do, however, use the 220 and 320 to lap scope mounts. There just isn't anyway I can bring myself to run something that coarse down the barrel under pressure. I just prefer to polish by hand and have "little polishing sessions" followed by a mineral spirits rinse. I want my firearms to be with me from now on.

Hope I've been some help, anyway
Ron

[dubber123]

Unless I am wrong, he said; THE throat. I think he means the area just in front of the forcing cone. His .4285" measurment reinforces this thought. Before any more firelapping, get a good TIGHT slug in the barrel, and slowly work it towards the frame window. If there is a constriction, you should be able to feel it. After the bunch I have firelapped recently, the boolit should slide EASIER the closer it gets to the frame window, not harder. Getting easier indicates a tapered bore, bigger in rear, tighter towards muzzle, and that is what I like to see.

After lapping, I can slide a oiled slug down the bore by hand pressure alone, as slick as ice.

One more thought, what alloy did you use for your lapping boolits?

[Wally]

Just a couple of ideas from an old man, here. When we talk powder solvent for cast, let's not assume that copper solvent is the same thing. If you use some solvents, the black stuff may be coming from the wire in the brush you use. Mineral spirits (paint thinner) from the lumber yard is good for cast.
Then you tell me that you're trying this with range scrap. It's likely alloyed with linotype and way hard. I'd back up and get some wheelweight, try straight wheelweight, maybe add some pure later for softer bullets(possibly not at all, considering it's a 44 mag with a very likely slow twist that doesn't necessarily eat bullets). But, I'd try fresh wheelweight first. I just always shoot my gas-check molds first, have more faith in them.

With my contenders, I've always started shooting with a light film of oil in the barrel, I just patch some through there when I head to the range. Just my way of taking care of the handgun.

The only lapping compound that I use down the barrel is 500 grit clover, I use it on a patch and do twenty passes at a time to polish. If you believe in firelapping, that's okay, I just don't do it. I do, however, use the 220 and 320 to lap scope mounts. There just isn't anyway I can bring myself to run something that coarse down the barrel under pressure. I just prefer to polish by hand and have "little polishing sessions" followed by a mineral spirits rinse. I want my firearms to be with me from now on.

Hope I've been some help, anyway
Ron

Where did you get the 500 grit clover Lapping compound?

[chboats]

Before I started fire lapping the throat ahead of the forcing cone was .4285 and the grove through the barrel was .430. I don't know how far the constriction extended. After fire lapping the throat 3/8 inch ahead of the start of the rifling was .4305 and the grove through the barrel was still .430. After fire lapping, as I pushed the slug through the barrel it did not get harder to push near the throat.

The alloy I used for fire lapping was scrap bhn 10 to 11. The alloy is a mixture of range lead from a military pistol range, mostly 45 ball, sheet lead from a lead lined tank and wheel weights. I aquired all of the lead over 25 years ago so I don't know what percentage there is from each source. I added about 1 percent tin to make it cast better. Lapping loads were loaded with 4 gr of bullseye.

To give you an idea of the amount of lead comming from the barrel, the first pass of the Lewis lead remover leaves the brass screen with a solid coat of lead.

thanks for all the help

Carl

[dubber123]

This ones a bit of a puzzler to me. It sounds as if you have a nicely lapped .430" bore, with .432" throats, which is certainly not a bad set up at all. I do like to use a slightly harder boolit when lapping, but whatever you did, it sounds like it came out right. Not feeling any restriction towards the forcing cone is key. PM me your address if you don't mind.

[canyon-ghost]

I got that 500 grit Clover from an old privately-owned Napa shop. Clover is a valve grinding compound and goes up to 2000 grit (now, that's fine!). Check the auto shops that do overhauls and head jobs. Mechanical shops will have it. Had mine given to me, small town perks, he only wanted to know what I wanted the stuff for!

Ron

[chboats]

dubber123 - PM sent

[44man]

This gets confusing. The throats are IN THE FRONT OF THE CYLINDER, not in front of the forcing cone.
If the throats are the proper size but the barrel has a tight spot, you do not want to enlarge the throats while lapping the bore.

[chboats]

44man - I guess I am using the wrong terminolgy. The throats of the cylinder infront of the chambers are .432 measured with pin gauge. The area infront of the forcing cone where the rifling starts and the part of the barrel screwed into the frame was the area to fire lap. The cylinger throats showed no appearent ware from the fire laping. The same .432 pin gauge is still a snug fit and there is no visable ware in the blueing.

I guess I just need to learn the correct language. What I was refering to as the throat of the barrel is all part of the forcing cone. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks
Carl

[dubber123]

44man - I guess I am using the wrong terminolgy. The throats of the cylinder infront of the chambers are .432 measured with pin gauge. The area infront of the forcing cone where the rifling starts and the part of the barrel screwed into the frame was the area to fire lap. The cylinger throats showed no appearent ware from the fire laping. The same .432 pin gauge is still a snug fit and there is no visable ware in the blueing.

I guess I just need to learn the correct language. What I was refering to as the throat of the barrel is all part of the forcing cone. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks
Carl

Well, I knew what you meant... [smilie=1: It is interesting you note that the same pin gauge is still a tight fit, even after the "marathon" lapping session. I hear about people worrying about opening the throats while firelapping, but it hasn't occured in any of the ones I have done either. I guess the boolits used just aren't a tight enough fit.

[Bass Ackward]

Yes. Lead will not cut where it doesn't encounter resistance. And that is why loads are meant to be kept low in pressure and with soft(er) lead.

And for 60 shots down the tube, that is only 10 per.

If you do notice anything, the taper will begin on the inside where alignment struggled to occur, not at the face.

[chboats]

Got out to the range today to do more testing. It was a good news - bad news day. The good news is I got NO leading with the gaschecked 429215 over 18 Gr of 2400. The bad news is the PB bullits are still leaving lots lead in the barrel. Thankfully it is very easy to remove the lead.
While using the Lewis lead remover, after the first couple of passes I put some ER in the barrel and used the lead remover to scrub the barrel. I noticed a slight increase in resistance near the forcing cone. I have to assume that there is still some constriction in the barrel. For now I think I will follow Bass Ackward's advice and just shoot hard GC bullets for a while and see if that helps

Just ordered 2K checks from Blammer

Carl

[Bass Ackward]

I noticed a slight increase in resistance near the forcing cone. I have to assume that there is still some constriction in the barrel.
Carl

Could be, but it could simply be a rough spot too. Coating slugs +with the LLA will smooth quicker than almost anything.

That 429215 might need up to 22 grains of 2400. Mine likes 21. And 15.5 works if you just want to punch paper. So does 11 grains of Unique. But I am smoothed up too.

[MtGun44]

If there is still a constriction in the barrel at the threads, consider doing a hand lap
to correct this. In any case, until this is corrected, you will have problems.

Bill

[chboats]

MtGun44 - I have put over 200 rounds through the gun since my last post here. I have been shooting the 429215 GC boolits over 18 gr of 2400 and 220 gr PB boolits over 6 gr of Bullseye. The checked boolits have produced no leading. When shoolting the PB boolits after every 10 to 20 rounds I scrub the lead out and put a light film of bullplate in the barrel. Don't know if the bullplate is helping or not but the amount of leading is down to very little. I am going to start increasing the load to see what happens. If it stops improving I may try the hand lapping

Carl

[MtGun44]

GCs will solve the problem, as a general rule and perhaps the easiest solution is to shoot
429215 or 429244s and just get used to the cost and effort. May be better than what it
takes to get this problem child to work. If it were me, unless the gun was immensely accurate
or had some sentimental value, I'll sell it down the road and go on. There is something wrong
in the dimensions somewhere. At this point, the tight barrel in the threads seems like
the best bet. Difficult to diagnose from long range. Many folks only shoot jacketed and would
never consider that gun a problem, so you maybe ought to sell it to someone and find one
that does like Pb boolits, there are lots of them out there. Personally, I have never had one
that gave this much trouble. My biggest deal was reaming up the too tight cyl throats on a
BH .45 convertible.

A friend that is a complete S&W expert solves these 'barrel constriction due to overtightening
by the factory' problems by removing the barrel and refitting it with red locktite and zero
"crush". S&W calls this a 'crush fit' barrel fit and in some cases it is actually crushed. My
friend reports that the constriction always goes away after taking out the excessive torquing.
Basically the back face of the barrel step (fwd of the threaded portion) hits the frame when there
is maybe 20-30 degrees of rotation left to align the sight and bottom lug. Some are even
greater, leading to a constriction when the barrel is tighted into the frame. He takes a few
thousandths of an inch off that back face of the barrel, then recuts the back face of the
barrel (at the cylinder -barrel gap location) to square it up and recuts the forcing cone. He
has a roomful of trophies to prove that it will produce an accurate (no leading) barrel setup.

He sets them up so that they are just snug as the sight and lug 'clock in', the red locktite holds
the barrel in location until heated up for removal. He put that barrel (6.5" S&W Proport) in the
pistol in the pic on the left. I know you can't see much, but that is a 629 Mtn Gun rebarreled to
the 6.5 Proport for hunting in Africa. That gun will shoot into 2" at 50 yds and lays down NO
lead at full max .44 Mag loading.

Bill

[Groo]

Groo here
Now might be a good time to recut the forcing cone [the back of the barrel at the frame ]
to 11 Degrees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chboats]

I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Probably just keep shooting it. I can't put much money into it right now and there is no smith in this area that I would trust to work on a revolver. Lots that do good work on autos and long guns. The gun has become kind of a project for the time being. With what I have done to it so far the leading has goten a lot better and the accuracy is much improved. I am having jun with it.

Thanks for all the inputs

I will keep you posted.

Carl

[Bass Ackward]

I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Probably just keep shooting it. I can't put much money into it right now and there is no smith in this area that I would trust to work on a revolver. Lots that do good work on autos and long guns. The gun has become kind of a project for the time being. With what I have done to it so far the leading has goten a lot better and the accuracy is much improved. I am having jun with it.

Thanks for all the inputs

I will keep you posted.

Carl


Good to read feedback. And it should be fun. If it isn't fun, then you need a break. I think you got more going on here than just a constriction.

Of the used handguns I have purchased over the last 12 years, ALL were leaded. What that tells me is that people would simply try a PB in them and when it leaded, sold the gun as a failure. The problem is mostly constrictions and alignment with wheel guns. While you got rid of one, you are still .... blessed with the other.

While I think that the 429215 is one of the most accurate bullets ever designed, it is also the absolute worst of the worst when dealing with alignment issues because of that teeny, tiny, weak (even when rock hard) front drive band that deforms at the slightest impact. If it starts up the pipe crooked, it ain't going to exit a lot better. At this point, the GC is keeping you in the ball game. (happy)

With cranky guns, you need a BRUTE of a break-in bullet. A true BEAST. I recommend the 310 Lee with that gentle olgive that once that wide nose makes contact, it slides down that forcing cone for more lead to steel contact so you get the necessary steel removing wear you need and where you need it. Great fire lap bullet for that reason. For the $20 you can have a hunting bullet later or just toss the mold when you are done.

That design is going to tell you how much more work or time you are going to have to put in before that gun comes round.

[44man]

Any PB boolit must be much harder then a GC boolit. I would not start at less then 25 BHN for a PB in the .44.

[Frank]

44man said
Any PB boolit must be much harder then a GC boolit. I would not start at less then 25 BHN for a PB in the .44.
He must be using boolits that are too soft. [smilie=l:

[chboats]

Have been using boolits from bhn 10 to 29. The harder lead took longer to lead but they still did. PB boolits have been shooting mostly 220 gr RNFP bhn of 15 on 6gr of bullseye. The GC boolits have been the same alloy 429215 on 18gr of 2400. Have tried different alloys because it depending who you are talking to. One says go hard and the next one says go softer. Most tend to agree, tune the alloy to the power of the load.
Right now I am getting very little or no leading with the above loads. Plan on gradually working up to heavier loads with different hardness just to see what happens. Right now, as I said before, I am having fun shooting the light loads. I just have to clean it more often than I would like.

Won't be out to the range for a week or more, we have grandkid duty.

Will let you know how things progress

Carl

[Wally]

Have been using boolits from bhn 10 to 29. The harder lead took longer to lead but they still did. PB boolits have been shooting mostly 220 gr RNFP bhn of 15 on 6gr of bullseye. The GC boolits have been the same alloy 429215 on 18gr of 2400. Have tried different alloys because it depending who you are talking to. One says go hard and the next one says go softer. Most tend to agree, tune the alloy to the power of the load.
Right now I am getting very little or no leading with the above loads. Plan on gradually working up to heavier loads with different hardness just to see what happens. Right now, as I said before, I am having fun shooting the light loads. I just have to clean it more often than I would like.

Won't be out to the range for a week or more, we have grandkid duty.

Will let you know how things progress

Carl

Year ago I had severe leading in my Ruger Superblackhawk. My solution was to shoot pure Linotype..I soon learnedr the error of my ways...as they too leaded up and it took far more effort to remove the much harder fouling that it produced.

[MtGun44]

I get no leading from AC WWts at around 13 BHN, IIRC, in .44 mag over heavy doses of
H110 and my favorite, 20 or 21gr of 2400. Tried water dropped and not as good accy, no
leading either. S&W 629, and Mtn Gun, 329, SBH and Anaconda. 629 and Mtn gun are the
most accurate.

Bill

[Frank]

MtGun44 said
Tried water dropped and not as good accy, no
leading either.
What boolit weight and powder charge with those H110 loads?

[chboats]

Bass Ackward - Your recommedation was right on. Thankfully it didn't take 2000 rounds. It took less the 1000 rounds. The last couple of days over 500 rounds have been put through the gun (with a little help from my friends) It is suprising how many friends you have when you have ammo to shoot up. Would put 50 rounds of checked boolits through it then 25 of PB boolits and clean out the lead. As we worked through the 500+ rounds the leading became less and less until there was so little that it was not worth cleaning. Loads were up to 8 gr of unique and 18 gr of 2400. I know that is still very mild but before I started this adventure 10 rounds would leave a lot of lead.

Thanks for all the great advice.

Carl

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Ackward - Your recommedation was right on. Thankfully it didn't take 2000 rounds. It took less the 1000 rounds. The last couple of days over 500 rounds have been put through the gun (with a little help from my friends) It is suprising how many friends you have when you have ammo to shoot up. Would put 50 rounds of checked boolits through it then 25 of PB boolits and clean out the lead. As we worked through the 500+ rounds the leading became less and less until there was so little that it was not worth cleaning. Loads were up to 8 gr of unique and 18 gr of 2400. I know that is still very mild but before I started this adventure 10 rounds would leave a lot of lead.

Thanks for all the great advice.

Carl



Carl,

The 2000 rounds was an arbitrary figure that you reduced by fire lapping with abrasive.

Understand that accuracy (lack of leading) should continue to improve up to 10,000 - 12,000 rounds. At that time, you got pretty much all the gun is going to give ya.

By that point in the life cycle of "that" barrel, it might shoot designs and loads that you passed over as inadequate before. My point is not to formulate opinions until you reach that level.