Loads for paper patching

[butch3220]

Hey all. I have been reading everyone's work here on patching and have decided to try it just to see if I can do it. I have a question though. Do you still load the round as if it was just a plain boolit or do you adjust the load due to the paper? I can't imagine the paper making a difference but I try to be safe when I reload and I honestly do not have any clue about pp.

[barrabruce]

Hmmm I would start with a low end starter load for jacketed stuff of the same weight.

Seat out to just touch the lands or throat.

Open the necks to seat the bullet.

Do not crimp!!!

I only use a single shot so things may be different for you thou.

Barra

[303Guy]

Do you still load the round as if it was just a plain boolit or do you adjust the load due to the paper?Almost, but not quite. I have succeeded in actually bending the patched boolits on seating because the neck tension was too high. My boolits are of a pretty soft alloy. Having just enough neck tension to hold the boolit firmly is important. And of course, as pointed out, case mouth flare so as not to damage the paper. I use just enough flare to start the patch but to still chamber without removing the flare. The load itself needs to be lowered to starting j-word levels unless the alloy is strong enough to make the transition into the bore without distortion. I have a sample recovered boolit I should post a pic of, to show what I mean.

Here is the pic of a boolit showing distortion that can take place between case mouth and throat/bore.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-687F.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-689F.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-692F.jpg

On one side there is a bulge corresponding to the gap between the case mouth and the chamber end. On the opposite side there is no bulge. This bulge is in a band that goes half way round the circumference. This was a low pressure load using fast powder. It indicates a softer region of the casting.

[pdawg_shooter]

You will find you can load more like jacketed than cast. I have my best luck with a powder slow enough to give me 100% load density. Pure lead can be pushed to around 2200fps and a BHN of 18 doesent seem to have a top limit. I havent found it yet. Took a 311284 in a 300RUM over 3000fps with MOA accuracy.

[docone31]

Load them like they are jacketed. Just do not crimp. Same charges.

[butch3220]

Thanks for the help. Now I know where to start.

[Beekeeper]

Docone31,
How do you get the slug to stay in the case and not drop all the wai or fall out without a little bit of a crimp

I hand seat my patched boolits and then use a lee factory crimp die to just kiss them enough to hold.
A couple of times I have cut the paper but not often.
Would like to hear how you do it so I can evaluate it as for me instead of how I do it now.


Jim

[docone31]

I just tighten the neck, I do not crimp it.
I have loaded a full magazine of .303 British and fired them off with no issues.

[303Guy]

Beekeeper, what I do is size the neck (with a slight mouth flare) so that when the boolit is seated (just too tight for finger pressure) the expansion on the neck is almost unmeasurable. This way, the boolit seems to seat too easily but they cannot be pulled by hand nor do they move in a magazine on firing. They can be seated deaper by the bolt if they chamber up against the leade but with some resistance.

[Beekeeper]

Alright guys I'll give it a try again. Tried it once and wound up with boolits stuck in the cases.
Almost shot one but noticed it as I was chambering .

Jim

[docone31]

Jim, it is simple. Just shrink the neck to the casting without roll crimping. The crimp tears the patch going out.
Load them just like jacketeds. You might have to open up the loading dies to make the patched loads work. They might be great for jacketeds, but too tight for paper.
Also, do you have tails you flattened down during sizeing?
The tails are needed.
Do not confuse the techniques that are black powder oriented. First, the case diameter is largely different. The pressures are different. This is smokeless.
Load them as you would a jacketed round. Just do not roll crimp the neck.
I have not found an advantage to loading so the nose of the load touches the rifleing. I am inclined to believe, the casting needs to jump to the rifleing to engage as the powder is smokeless.
I have found, a cigarette roller makes a great difference in the integrity of the patch. I get this nice confetti.
Relax, enjoy, load, and go to the range.

[Fire_stick]

I have been loading my 357 and 44 mag pp'd bullets just like jacketed with medium to medium heavy crimp. Early on I pulled several to test the integrity of the paper, and it seemed fine.
So far, no issues with these calibers. I make sure my case mouth is as free as possible of burrs.
But I am still figuring all this out, too.

[303Guy]

I have been loading my 357 and 44 mag pp'd bullets just like jacketed with medium to medium heavy crimp. Early on I pulled several to test the integrity of the paper, and it seemed fine.There's a reason why crimping works in one case (excuse the pun) and not the other! I'm just trying to figure it out.

I have not found an advantage to loading so the nose of the load touches the rifleing. I am inclined to believe, the casting needs to jump to the rifleing to engage as the powder is smokeless.I'm glad you mentioned this docone31. Not that it clears up any questions but rather because it serves to make one think! You cast a rather hard, zinc rich alloy, don't you? (I'm becoming interested in harder alloys for my 'Varmint 303 Brit' project).

[rhead]

My experience is that if the bullet is sized to be a mildly tight friction fit in a fired-unsized case then it is very close to the proper fit for the chamber that that case was fired in. If the case was fire in your rifle and the bullet is unacceptably loose consider a slightly larger bullet.