Propane tank pot

[Greg5278]

I have heard some guys making melting pots out of old( pre OPD) propane tanks. They empty them, them unscrew the neck fitting, before filling them with water and burning the tops off. I understand they use 2 through drilled heavy U bolts for handles.

Any thoughts? Someone with a Plasma cutter could make a ton in an afternoon. I can get all the free 20# tanks I want. The recycle center will give them away, because they don't have the Government mandated OPD valve.

Greg

[Four Fingers of Death]

I think I'd rather cut the top off in a big old lathe. Do that wrong and you will get blasted into orbit. :-) Mick.

[Lee W]

My half tank/pot was cut in a chop saw while still full of water.
BTW the additive that stinks will remain for some time. I had to burn it empty for almost an hour before the smell went away.

[44woody]

I just fimished makeing a smoker out of a 100 lb tank I put in a 1/2 bottle of liquid dish soap then filled it with water let it set for 7to 10 days then started to cut on it with a side grinder and not even a hint of a flash of lp gas going off in the tank the trick is putting in the soap and letting them sit for a while :castmine: 44Woody

[Bigscot]

I have also opened the valve and blown air into the tank and let it sit for a few days and let the air out and do this several times. I would still put some water though.

Bigscot

[Buckshot]

.............I did one for a friend from a 5lb cylinder. Pulled the valve and filled it with water. A couple days later I emptied it and cut the top off with a torch and dressed the edge with a 4.5" grinder.

...............Buckshot

[georgeld]

These things are the same as gas tanks on car's, or barrels. They'll all kill or maim you in a flash!!

Best and safest without the mess is to pipe exhaust fume's into them. Wait til the tank's warm, then just get with the program. Be careful how much of it you breathe though. Nothing can blow up in carbon monoxide, but, it's deadly too.

I've patched many a gas tank while sitting on them with a hose pumping exhaust in them, open up all the hole's so it can flow thru. Several even had gas still in them and it couldn't be lit. Strange thing for the non believer to see. Once it's cooled down and exhaust is taken away, pour a little on the ground and it'll burn just like always, and smell the same too.

Thing about water is not only is it a mess to cut when wet/full. It'll drain off and leave an air space that CAN AND WILL/may blow up!! That's the way the only gas tank I ever blew up did it. Plumb scary too!!

Be safe, you may not get another chance screwing with these things.

A little after the fact editing, because David below says he's a weldor. Missed that point here, I worked as one more than ten yrs, and been doing it for most of 45yrs. Read what I said about water!

George

[357maximum]

Gas, whether it is propane or natural WILL remain in the pores of the steel for a looong time. After purging a main with air we push nitrogen into it before introducing ANY form of spark or fire. Be careful men...

I have been around a few "wooshes" even when all standards were being followed. Never got hurt or nothing, but it does get your attention,,,full and undivided like,especially when you are in an underground vault and there is nowhere to run..

The car exhaust tip would be an excellent little piece of advice to follow, cannot burn something in that environment..

Michael

[David R]

I'm a welder. Water is the best trick. I have used CO2 from a tank, but now that I am getting older and knew 2 poeple that blew them selves up, I quit.

If I were to cut a propane tank, I would fill it with water, DRILL a few 1/2" holes in the top before cutting. If it does woosh it will have some place to go.

One of the guys I know was cutting the top off a 55 gal motor oil drum. The hot slag had aparently fallen into what oil was left and filled the barrel with that nice white smoke. It ignited. Burned him bad. caught his garage on fire too.

Georgeld....you are nuts. :)

Greg5278, I have a plasma cutter....We are going to be RICH!

David

[DLCTEX]

An old fellow in our area was killed last year when he cut into a tank he thought was purged, not sure what method he used, but he had done many of them in the past. Also knew a guy years ago that welded on a tank that had been called safe by the company he worked for, it was a large propane tank. Blew him 100 yds.through the side of a building, DOA. To me the risk is not worth it, there are other ways to make smelters.

[felix]

Why be so close to the tank? Can't we poke a few holes through the top portion with a few extreme speed condoms in preparation for a "saw/torch" job? Never tried it. ... felix

[StarMetal]

As you fellows know I worked at a major Sunoco oil refinery in Tulsa. I liked to watch maintenance work on stuff as I could learn new things. One think that was interesting is if they had to tie a new pipeline into a big tank that was full of some volatile liquid, say like gasoline or benzene, etc., they would go ahead and weld on it full of the liquid as they couldn't pump down the tank to another tank and spend all the time purging it. The theory is if the liquid has no oxyen supply it can't burn. Think about it, think about those little electric motors that run the pumps inside today's automotive gastanks. As long as that motor is under gasoline it can't cause a burn. Anyways after they got the pipe connected I said how in the heck do you drill the hole through the tank. Well with a special valve that has a drill through it. Pretty cool stuff they did.

I wouldn't fool with the propane tanks. There's too many other safer and better choices to use out there, like a lot heavier and thicker castiron Dutch oven.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Car exhaust as an inert gas is not always a sure thing, there are sometimes unburned materials in it. It's probably as close to an inert gas that a person at home will get to. Like I said in the previous post, best to leave the tanks alone.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Back in the days when I was Lawyering I represented US steel in an accident where one of their 55 gal. steel drum exploded. Actualy it turned into a rocked, blowing out the bottom and taking off the head of the fellow what was trying to weld a crack around the bung.

The contents of the barrel had been a water softener, that was non-flamable, non-toxic, etc. etc. etc...harmless stuff.

Long story short, the contents of the barrel has been slightly acidic on the PH scale and the company ordered the wrong kind of drum without the right kind of lining. The contents freed hydrogen from the steel which combined with the oxygen in the barrel to form hydrogen oxide gas.. which is also used as rocket fuel.

In the process I talked to all kinds of experts and the consensus was when you put heat on a drum of an kind for any reason, you are on very thin ice. Funky kinds of chemistry can take place in these vessels and things can be formed inside that bear no resemblence to the original contents.

[KYCaster]

Why be so close to the tank? Can't we poke a few holes through the top portion with a few extreme speed condoms in preparation for a "saw/torch" job? Never tried it. ... felix

Eggzackly what I did. After purging with air, then water, I emptied it and ventilated it with a 30 cal. tracer from a safe distance. Then started the cut with a saw before I went to the torch, and I was reaching around a corner when I hit the Oxygen lever! Too careful?....I don't think so.

Jerry

[redneckdan]

I used a hack saw when I did mine. Took about 45 minutes but I didn't blow my nutz off either.

[Randy in Arizona]

I realize the 20 pound propane tanks are bigger, but try getting a hold of the empty 30 pound R134 refrigerant cylinders instead.

Small enough to move when weighted down with lead, and the contents never were flamable.
Just purge it a few times with compressed air, and you are good to go!:castmine:

[StarMetal]

Jerry,

Why a tracer? I forget who it was, Soldier of Fortune or some other military weaponry group, but they said, for example, the only way to light off a gas tank was with incenderary. They did this to prove how Hollywood is all ********. They even used 50 cal machine gun tracers and riddle a gas tank and nothing. They said the reason is the bullet goes through the tank too fast for the tracer to light anything. I believe it.

Joe

[felix]

Joe, gasoline does not burn. Gasoline fumes do burn. ... felix

[grumpy one]

Usually a gas tank has only liquid fuel and saturated vapour in it, and neither of those can burn without added oxygen. A tracer that has passed through a whole bunch of liquid gasoline is no longer hot enough to ignite the fuel on the far side when it exits.

Usually a propane bottle has only liquid and vapourised propane in it. Same outcome when you shoot it with a tracer.

Many years ago I was given the job of making a propaganda film to "prove" that gasoline isn't inflammable. It involved dripping a lot of gasoline around a continually-sparking spark plug. Of course the gasoline didn't catch fire - it was outdoors during winter in Michigan. I tried actually dunking the spark plug into a cupful of liquid gasoline, and even then it didn't ignite until I jiggled it up and down for a while. Gasoline and propane are dangerous - don't let party tricks with tracer rounds (or spark plugs) persuade you otherwise.

The problem when you work on a gasoline or propane tank is just that - you are working on it. There is a good chance somewhere along the way some air will get in there, and turn the thing into a bomb, or it will leak liquid or vapour, which might catch fire outside the tank.

Personally I don't think flame or grinding sparks belong near gasoline or propane tanks until after they are cut in half, or at least have quite large holes in them, and nothing important is in front of those holes. Bear in mind that the things you do to make them safe usually have the effect of making sure there is air in them, which makes them less safe in the short term.

Geoff

[versifier]

Once having survived the operation, [smilie=1: , the stench can easily be removed from the metal with the enzyme spray used to un-skunk people and dogs, etc. It's sold under various names like "Skunk-Away" and isn't very expensive, considering.

I think I've written of it before here, but the compound used for stenching is called mercaptan, and natural organic skunk juice contains several variations of it, two of which, phenol mercaptan and butyl mercaptan, are used in the gas industry, one is more common, but I can't remember which. It's a common synthesis (or was when I was in school 30 yrs ago) in organic chemistry, although dropping a flask full of it will empty a building faster than you could imagine....

[redneckdan]

you must educate me in the ways of the skunk essence...[smilie=1:

[kodiak1]

Randy if cutting a freon bottle do not breath those fumes that is bad bad sh*t.

StarMetal that is called a hotpatch and yes it makes you shake your head the first time you see it. They even do that on pipelines for Natural Gas but I think they spot a Nitrogen plug in the area when they do that.

The smell in the tanks is from Mercaprin the best way to get rid of that is bleach lots of it and let it set over night then rinse with water. That is how we get rid of the smell from the water that they use to find holes in pipelines, mix in clorine (bleach) and circulate the tank and the smell is gone. The water goes to disposal.

If I was to cut one I think I would go with the water.

Ken.

[StarMetal]

Standard projectile design in WWII, for purposes of setting the other plane alight (and note we're dealing with gasoline here) was incendiary or armor-piercing incendiary. Both relied on a compound that flashed on impact, in the nose of the round or, in the pure incendiary, through its center as well. Since it was right under the copper jacket, the flash would most likely happen upon impact, outside the fuel tank. The idea was that if you hit the gas tank (or in the case of a self-sealing tank design, hit it a lot) some gas would leak, and the later incendiaries would set it afire.

Felix,

Yes I know that about gasoline, remember most all my experience is in chemical plants and oil refineriers. The tests with the tracers were done on gas tanks in every conceiable way possible, that is full, half full, empty with fumes, tracers just did not light them off, not even after the tanks had been shot full of holes to look like a seive.

You need the triangle for combustion..oxygen, temperature, ignition. Yeah I know they added a fourth to that.

So gasoline in itself, does not contain oxygen Felix, so of course it won't light if you could somehow produce a spark from within it.

Joe

[KYCaster]

Joe asked.......
Why a tracer?

Cause at the time I thought it was a pretty good idea. And still think so.

I don't know anything about how SOF did their tests, but I've spent a few evenings at the Knob Creek machine gun shoots (its just 20 mi. up the road from me) and one of the highlights is the exploding gasoline cans. They ignite them with tracer. At least the guys I've talked to said they were shooting tracer. I never thought to question whether they actually knew what they were useing.

Its amazing how much energy one gal. of gasoline has. You can feel the heat and concussion from 200 yds. away.

Anyway, I don't know how it works, but it seems to get the job done.

Jerry

[StarMetal]

I've seen a tv program all about Knob Creek and they said they lit them off with incendary.

Some of the tanks had explosives in them to help them along too.

Don't believe all that you hear.


Joe

[357maximum]

Hot tapping is not that big of deal when the pressures are below 60 lbs, after that it gets quite technical. Hot tapping is done by us with a mueller no5 or p5machine mounted on top of a pancake valve, have done it hundreds if not thousands of times it is no big deal. We used to CATCH IT LIVE on anything 9 lbs or lighter, but no longer they took all the fun away...THEY being MIOSHA, and MPSC.
You simply are drilling a hole through steel, and turning the valve off between steps in the operation, and you open the valve back up, and force a threaded completion plug into the tee, or fitting, remove everything and place a threaded cap on the fitting. It is really simple shtuff.


As far as igniting gasoline that is being shot,, placing a lit candle about 10 feet to the side or behind the intended target will ignite the plume of gas quite nicely. so I've heard..
.

[Dale53]

I set up a demonstration for a public watched muzzleloader shoot between Kentucky and Ohio. We used a fifty gallon drum with the top cut out and a glass jug of gasoline sitting on top of a board. In the bottom of the barrel I had a long burning candle lit. The muzzleloading ball burst the jug, vaporizing a part of the contents and the candle flame set it off. Rather spectacular - looked a bit like a minature atom bomb. The people were really impressed with the power of a flint lock rifle (LOL)!

Dale53

[StarMetal]

That's right, tapping into a big tank no big deal. But it is to folks who don't know anything about it and think "My God, that's fuel of gasoline!"

Joe

[357maximum]

That's right, tapping into a big tank no big deal. But it is to folks who don't know anything about it and think "My God, that's fuel of gasoline!"

Joe



Yeah, you should see people walking around in town when they come upon one of our excavations, they look down at us ,ask what we are doing , then we tell them and they freak, it is really funny if they have a smoke in their mouth, takes em about .2 seconds to put it out.

I've never tapped a big tank, but have tapped all sizes of pipe, same basic technology I suppose.

Michael

[JSH]

Before some one gets hurt, I will offer to ship you new cast iron dutch ovens for cheap. Give a holler if interested. They may even have somthing like a big 3 gallon roaster for you high quantity fellows.
BTW I have cut my share of barrels, gas tanks and bottles. Not some of the smartest moves I ever made either, luck to be here IMHO>
Jeff

[Char-Gar]

I have been looking for a cheap cast iron pot for smelting ww..here is my email so let's talk.. I am interested. cgraff@stx.rr.com

[Four Fingers of Death]

Gotta say it again, hacksaw and elbow grease or a big old lathe. One flash, your ash! Mick.

[georgeld]

This turned into quite a discussion.

Forgot about a couple deals I was the prime suspect on.

When a couple us wild ass kids were shooting holes thru things. I put an '06 thru the side of a 100# propane tank from a couple hundred yards away thinking it'd make a huge boom. All it did was hiss blowing gas for a long time. Filled the valley full of fume's, that was the scary part as we had to drive thru it to get out of there and the old '50 Chevy always had sparking plug wire's. DTKBN!!

Another time I was burning off some pipe, railings and other iron on a demolition job and cut a one inch pipe sticking out of the ground by a concrete corner. Wasn't any big deal.

Soon as it fired up the inside's of the pipe there was a buried tank about 100 feet away that boomed pretty hard and made quite a hump in the paved parking lot. No one knew about that tank, or they hadn't said anything to the contractor I was working for. I was told to: "take your torch and cut all that iron off over there".
As this was a part time job and I was on vacation from my reg job, that was something they dug up after I left and never did learn what the tank was. Imagine gas, or diesel maybe.

Far as the exhaust deal I told about. Just on idle there's not much chance of anything escaping unburned. A lawn mower engine on a car tank will do it. I always use about 5-10' of hose and IF I can find one/it, will use a vacuum cleaner hose, but, I've used a piece of steel pipe, or conduit. Trick is to wait til the metal of the tank gets good and warm first. That's what I was told to do the first time I was around the exhaust deal. Been doing it about 40 yrs and never had a problem. Figure I've torch welded, or brased at least 50 tanks, maybe twice that. The only tank I ever blew up was filled with water and couldn't keep it from leaking. Only had an inch or so of air space when it blew up. But, it split the seams and got three of us soaked in that nasty stinking water. Knocked us over too, but, can't hurt kids much from tipping them over.

David, guess you've never worked on this kinda stuff huh??
Another time I was pushing a string of boxcars with a loader and got the bucket hooked on the ladder of one and couldn't get away from it. Poked a hole in the diesel tank on the loader. Once the cars stopped and I could get loose, drove over to the torch, got a gas engine powered compressor and a hose to fill the top of the tank with exhaust and welded it up. The boss the next day was like you. But, it was done, fixed and even paint touched up by the time he learned of it. I was working graveyard shift alone at the time. NBD when you know what you're doing.
IF you don't, best to leave it to those of us that do.

George

[StarMetal]

Okay, Okay, I shot an Oxygen bottle once. :oops: Boy that was enough too. I shot it with a 243 Win from 50 yards away. I was pretty young so didn't know any better, at least I wasn't closer. I was on a little railway trestle that crossed a small creek. The bottle was down under the trestle alongside the creek. About six feet from the edge of the creek in fact. When I fired there was this giant explosion. I remember I was surrounded by orange flame and black. I was squatting down and at the explosion bowed my head and had my hand over top it. The explosion went on for a long time and stuff (black creek mud) was falling out of the sky for quite some time. I thought it was never going to end. Well it did and when I looked where the bottle was there first was a fog that obscured the area. After that disappeared where the bottle was there was a crater about five foot round and a foot deep. Damn I says. I goes down to investigate and can't find the bottle. Where'd it go. The creek was very very muddy from the blast. As enough water washed the mud away I saw the bottle in the bottom of the creek. I pulled it out. Right where I had aimed where the bullet hit, there was a perfect, and I mean perfect two inch diameter hole. I guess what happen was the heat created from the bullet friction going through the tank lit off the oxygen and steel to burning. I was impressed that all that energy exited through that little hole. Oh top the bottle was stamped NON SHATTER PROOF. By God they were right.

I shot an acetylene tank from 200 yards away. Just a little yellow flame started burning out of the bullet hole. Amazing about all this is I know I posted elsewhere about tracers not setting gas tanks off, but yet my 243 bullets set both the oxygen bottle and acetylene tank off.

Like they say on the Mythbusters "DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, WE'RE WHAT YOU CALL PROFESSIONALS" [smilie=1:

I called myself stupid back then for those two stunts.

Joe

[StarMetal]

357Maximum,

I'll tell you something neat I saw at the refinery. They decided they wanted to move this big storage tank. We're talking big here folk, hundred's of thousands of gallons. Course first they drain it, purge it, disconnect all the pipes to it. Let me say first they weren't moving his a long distance. Okay, after all that's down they cut a 1 to 2 inch strip of steel out of the side of the tank at the very bottom around it's diameter, EXCEPT, they leave these little pedestals to support the tank. Okay the way they move the tank is they fill it full of air, yes air!, 1 1/2 pounds per square in, and float the tank along the ground to where they want in. First they fill it full of air and then cut those pedestals off I mentioned. It's amazing how that air lifts that tank and they push it along. Yes I know how it all works Felix, please don't explain.

Joe

[felix]

Yes I know how it all works Felix, please don't explain. ... Joe

Ok, then, explain to me how they generate 1.5 pounds per square inch within that large tank. Please detail the equipment used. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Well Sun's maintenance crew wasn't always up on high tech. They just had a giant air compressor that could put out the volume and made sure they regulated the out going pressure so it definately wouldn't overpressure the tank. They had a giant crane to assist and tow vehicles to help scoot it to the new platform. Nothing at all high tech to it. Reminded me of large tires take less air pressure then skinny small tires thing. Wouldn't take much air pressure to ruin that tank. Have any of you fellows blowed dents out of small tanks with air pressure? If you have you'll know it doesn't take much.

Joe

[madcaster]

Hmmm,intresting thread.
I'm with Felix,some coated suppository bullets may be best...

[LET-CA]

I just fimished makeing a smoker out of a 100 lb tank I put in a 1/2 bottle of liquid dish soap then filled it with water let it set for 7to 10 days then started to cut on it with a side grinder and not even a hint of a flash of lp gas going off in the tank the trick is putting in the soap and letting them sit for a while :castmine: 44Woody

I'd love to see some photos of your smoker!

[Bigjohn]

G'day,

The following is a work in progress. The tank was left at the club some years back after some idjot tried to blow it up with a rifle 'J' boolit. :roll: It sat there with a hole in one side for many years, then during a clean up I put it in the ute and bought it home. A spanner was all I needed to remove the spigot then it sat around for a few more years. Earlier this year I took the angle grinder to it and ground down the midriff weld then cut through with a thin cutting disc.

The top half has the boolit hole and spigot thread in it but the bottom is 'A OK'. :drinks:

A little welding and the top could be used as a pot also.

1941

I was lucky; mine had the years for anything dangerous to disappear or I would not have cut it. A friend of mine, Murray, is treating one as per direction given to him by a Gas fitter before he cuts his. This includes soaking with water and detergent for sometime, then airing tank pre cutting. [smilie=1:

John.

[357maximum]

357Maximum,

I'll tell you something neat I saw at the refinery. They decided they wanted to move this big storage tank. We're talking big here folk, hundred's of thousands of gallons. Course first they drain it, purge it, disconnect all the pipes to it. Let me say first they weren't moving his a long distance. Okay, after all that's down they cut a 1 to 2 inch strip of steel out of the side of the tank at the very bottom around it's diameter, EXCEPT, they leave these little pedestals to support the tank. Okay the way they move the tank is they fill it full of air, yes air!, 1 1/2 pounds per square in, and float the tank along the ground to where they want in. First they fill it full of air and then cut those pedestals off I mentioned. It's amazing how that air lifts that tank and they push it along. Yes I know how it all works Felix, please don't explain.

Joe

I would love to see that operation,It's amazing what you can do with air. We use balloons inserted into mains to shut gas flow off. On low pressure lines we used to [smilie=1: drill the hole and tap it live and leaking, insert balloons up stream from intended mod, and inflate with bicycle pump, instant gas stoppage,(well most the time) on lines bigger than 6 inch you need to use two of em..abot two foot apart...Most people flat freak about some stuff we do, but it all safe regardless of how it looks, or sounds., Most people do not realize that you can stick a bic lighter in the end of gas main that is live and strike it, nothing will happen, no oxygen -no fire- no boom..pure natural gas will not burn..the bad thing is that people who work on theories make up rules that do not apply, and we have to follow their "procedures" even though they themselves have never even been around gas,they have plumb sucked all the fun out of it all.


Speaking of fire, anyone ever see a 17 pound bar of magnesium on fire. Anodes are one of the best firelogs ever invented...imagine 100 arc welders going at once...funstuff, but remote locations are required. Noon at night firelogs..just do not burn 7 at one time, the constable do not like being awaken at 1 in the morning...no sense of humor..take my word on that one...

Michael

[trooperdan]

That bar of magnesium surely would have been a sight alright... but how in the heck did you ever get it lit? I've seen guys try to lit small bars, like half inch or so and never get it done. They were using distress flares as I recall.

[LET-CA]

My freshman year in college (34 years ago) I lit a piece of magnesium ribbon on fire during the lecture in our chemistry lab. Fortunately for me the professor had a sense of humor because I had my own little bit of sunshine lighting up the back of the room. I quickly realized my error and was trying to hide the thing with no luck. I can only imagine what a big piece would look like.

[StarMetal]

MY GOD!!! Don't be messing with burning magnesium, or if you do, please stay away from the fumes and smoke. It puts out one of the most toxic fumes. We were warned and trained for fighting magnesium fires in the Navy, as planes have alot of this metal in them. I forget what they said about the fumes, something about screwing up your bone marrow or something. It's bad stuff to breathe and any rate.

Joe
Edited in: Magnesium Powder: found in some tracer mixtures. Dust may cause irritation to upper respiratory tract. Inhalation of fumes may results in “leukocytosis”. Contact may cause irritation of skin, eyes, and mucous membranes. Inhalation may irritate the respiratory tract. Symptoms may include coughing, shortness of breath, sore throat and runny nose. If sufficient amounts are inhaled and absorbed, symptoms may resemble those in acute ingestion. Ingestion may cause gastroenteritis (inflammation of the lining membrane of the stomach and intestines) with abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Systemic effects may follow and may include ringing of the ears, dizziness, elevated blood pressure, blurred vision and tremors. Health effects of chronic exposure are unknown.

[357maximum]

Joe

I assure you it was done safely and watched from upwind in a very remote location each and every time. The fumes were going in a safe direction. Remember the training video for firefighting, simply push them overboard is the only simple solution. DO NOT THROW WATER, on a burning anode by the way it would make for some really dangerous fireworks, if it hit you it would go through you...throwing gasoline on them would be safer than water. You can not put these out once started(without a tractor buckets' worth of dry dirt anyway) This was all done many years ago, and in a verrry remote local. The fun thing was when the constable said "PUT IT OUT" I said cannot do that, he watched it finish with us and had a beer, but told me if ever again he were to be awaken at that hour for such silliness he would arrest us all.


As far as lightin it, get a good hardwood fire burning, and throw em on and wait, In this day and age I would suggest you do not do it, but damn was it fun once upon a time..

As far as getting them, they are used on steel gas mains for fighting corrosion. They are attached with a copper wire and cadwelded on the main (cadweld= gunpowder mixed with copper powder and ignited in an "oven" with a torch striker). Sometimes we put them on a main, and then we dig them up within a year or so and most are almost new, but not reuseable. If they stay in moist ground for quite awhile they simply dissapear...it works on the lessser metal principle, look at your boat motor, most small outboards have an anode attatched somewhere in the lower unit, the corrosion attacks the magnesium, not the aluminum.

Be safe, and remember it is proably illegal and a serious offense now to do any of the above.

Michael

[StarMetal]

Yeah in Naval firefighting school they said push the plane over the side if on a carrier at sea. If not on a carrier cover it with sand, both done from up wind of the fire. Yes, when you push that plane over the side it will burn under water too.

Hey, this will bring you back some years. Remember the good old sparklers on 4th of July? Well when I was a kid those babies must have had magnesium in them because they burned under water. Many years later they changed the formula and they won't burn under water, hell they hardly stay lit out of water.

Joe