Forming 221 FB from 223 Rem- What's it take?

[Charlie Sometimes]

Got some military and commerical 223 cases- want to turn them into 221 Fireball. Do I need anything special that I don't already have? Asking here first. Gonna search the WWW next.
I've never done this before, but I'm sure someone else here has- looks to be a straight forward process. Need a inside neck reamer, trim die, or what? Anyone know?

Goofing around today, I ran a few 223 into the 221 sizer die without the decapper stem in it. I lubed the case with Imperial size die wax before I did (my regular size lube). It seemed to work very well, and smoothly, with very little extra force (using a Lyman Orange Crusher II press)- got a long necked 221 case in one step.

It looks like if you cut the 223 off at the shoulder it would be a little easier to trim later. I haven't tried trimming any back yet. I ran some back through the sizer die with the stem replaced. That worked okay, too. A shorter neck might have been easier, but it looks okay!

If I would trim it off and then resize it with the stem installed, would I be good?

Comments and suggestions, please! :smile:

[BCall]

It will work Charlie, I have seen it done before. You might not even need to neck ream. Do you have any brass? I would check the diameter of the neck of a fired round and then check the diameter of one of your formed cases with a bullet seated. If you have clearance, I wouldn't worry about reaming them. I might turn the necks to make sure that they are as concentric as possible without taking too much off, but I tend to like thicker necks on my brass. I feel like it helps the boolit enter the bore straighter.

I would anneal after forming and trimming though. And I would watch my loads with the military brass, as they supposedly have thicker brass, and less capacity than factory. Personally I would just form them like you did and trim afterwards, rather than trying to cut them at the shoulder first. You might try it, if you like it, go ahead. But if I was going to do some seriously, I would form, then trim with a chop saw or dremel, debur, size with expander ball, and trim to final length, and anneal. Then I would turn the necks. But that's just me. Billy

[Mk42gunner]

You might have to thin the new neck; by either inside reaming, or turning the outside. Since your new neck is now comprised of the old case body.

I know they used to sell forming dies for this, but if the cases fit you chamber with enough neck clearance, you should be good.

Be careful of your case capacity also.

Robert

[Charlie Sometimes]

I have some factory cases, and can check those dimensions. I thought about chopping them off with a dremel blade, too. I can check water capacity on some to see if there is a drastic difference, too. Never thought about annealing them. Good idea- been there, done that part before.

[Al_sway]

When I formed some for a friend's fireball, I had to neck turn the cases. I would leave the cases full length until you size them and trim the long neck when you are done.

[CENTEX BILL]

I am makeing 300/221(300 Whisper) cases from 223. I have decdided that it is a lot of work in comparsion to buying factory 221 cases and expanding them.

No doubt you can make 221 from 223 but seriously ask your self it the alledged savings really worth the hassle.

My .02.

Centex Bill

[bdbullets]

I made a thousand of them several years ago for a friends XP100(after doing about a hundred I showed him how to do it and made him come over and help). It worked great but very time consuming. I used a file type trim die to get them to length and cut them off after resizing them with a high quality small tubing cutter. If I were going to do it again I would get one of the mini chip saws from Harbor Frieght. Then I ran them up into the trim die again and finished filing to proper length. I then had to turn the necks as they were to thick for the XP. Then you will have to aneal them or they won't last more than one or two loading and the necks will split.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I am making 300/221(300 Whisper) cases from 223. I have decided that it is a lot of work in comparsion to buying factory 221 cases and expanding them.

No doubt you can make 221 from 223 but seriously ask yourself is the alledged savings really worth the hassle.

My .02.

Centex Bill

At better than $40 dollars per hundred for 221 FB- I think that makes it worth it. I am buying some to have on hand for loading and shooting, but these may be used for hunting only, so if I loose a few, then who cares. Less expense and easily replaced.

I've never needed to form cases before, so this is FUN too. A new learning experience in my favorite hobby! :bigsmyl2:

[Charlie Sometimes]

I have also thought about cutting some of the excess neck off above final OAL, and opening the necks up with an M-die to ease trimming. I use the Lee trimmer guages and cutter method, and have it motorized. Makes trimming lots of cases fast. Then you could resize, and anneal.

I have also considerd using a LEE collet neck sizing die from the 22 Hornet set I have, to squeeze the neck around the mandrel to lessen the thickness some, if it is found to be over-sized. I checked, and with the longer neck of the Hornet it will require placing a 1/4 inch thick metal shim around the case on top of the ram to allow the die to do it's job. Might give it a try and see what comes out, after I check all of these other dimensions previously mentioned.

[TheOldGreybeard]

I went to the bother to make some 20 VarTarg cases from .222 brass, which was all new or once fired. I cut them off around the shoulder with a small band saw, then formed them and trimmed with a proper trimmer. They were much too thick in the neck, so I neck turned them and then they fit just about perfect.

After all that, I failed to anneal the new necks, and they are cracking at a ferocious rate after only 1 or 2 firings...

I did it to prove to myself that I could....and I could, however, it wasn't worth the effort, especially since I FAILED to finish with annealing.

You may not need to neck turn, or if so, not much, for the fireball, and if you remember to anneal, you might very well find the effort worthwhile. More power to ya', I say. It's good to have the skills to change things.

I usually use a Redding body die for initial forming...

[Charlie Sometimes]

I checked Midsouth today- Redding has a trim and forming die for about $23. RCBS a form die for about $32! Not. I will probably get the Redding die.

Took one of the formed cases today and resized and trimmed it about 3 times, and seated a V-MAX bullet in it to check chambering- NO GO! Neck is too thick, and won't allow the bolt to get near closing. Gonna have to neck turn or ream! Which would be better?

The M-Die was unnecessary. Neck was not tight on the trimming mandrel. Didn't get to try the neck sizing collet die (I will tomorrow) and see if the cartridge will fit then. My neighbor has a bandsaw. Might get with him and cut a few cases down for more experimentation!

After I get it figured out what all I need to do- annealing will be in order. I will NOT forget, or get lazy at that juncture! Thanks for the warning.

[hhranch]

I recently made some .221 cases from some military and old .17 Remington cases. Very lightly lubed the cases, ran them into a Redding file type trim/form die, cut off the excess with a hacksaw (fine tooth), then ran them through the full length sizing die, trimmed on a Forester case trimmer and then annealed. Resulting case necks were too thick, so outside turned them. Shot under 1" with a takeoff barrel I put on my Remington 600 test bed. It is probably easier to buy them, but if you have a good source of inexpensive or no cost military brass, you can make good cases. I have also used this process to make .17 Mach IV cases after forming the .221s, but this was before the .17 Fireball. All you really need is the form/trim die.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Is outside turning better/easier? Seems it would be more expensive to get the necessary tools. Or would reaming be better? Just the expense of the reamer then?

[BCall]

Personally I would turn the necks. You can control how much you take off then. Hard to control that with a reamer. Take off just enough to allow the bullet to release, and you have in a sense created a tight neck chamber. JMO, Billy

[Marine Sgt 2111]

When I first bought a Remington 700 in .17 FB you couldn't find brass anywhere so I made my own out of .222 Remingtons. Using a redding forming (.221 FB) die I moved about 1/2 of the shoulder diameter back to the proper .221 FB location on the case. The second step was to use a .221 FB full length sizing die. Then came a redding forming die for .17 MKIV (which is halfway between .224 and .172 and finally a .17 FB full length sizing die. I trimmed the cases to length on a drill press and turned the necks at the same time using a forester power cutter, od neck turner and a .17 pilot. After I have fired them all to form them to chamber dims. I will anneal their necks.

As a side note, two days after I went through the above forming of some two hundred cases....Midway notified me that .17 FB cases had come in...argh!!!!

[FN in MT]

I made a few hundred several years back from once fired Military 5.56mm brass.

Used a REDDING file trim die, then ran into tight neck issues. So bought a new FORSTER trimmer with all the inside/outside neck reaming gear.

Finally found the happy medium with neck eaming and started splitting necks. So tried the annealing process. Worked fine, but at 4-5 firings the necks started splitting again.

Sold the rifle, bought a Cooper .222 Rem instead. FAR easier to simply BUY cases IMHO. I could rationalize all the fooling around IF cases were rare or prohibitively expensive. They are not.

But...an interesting project that teaches a guy a thing or two...HOW we all learn.

HANDLOADER or RIFLE mag had an article on this very issue a dozen or more years back. I have most all of both magazines...anyone know the year? or issue #?

FN in MT

[wiljen]

I'll parrot FN in MT on the neck turning and splits. I've had the same issue with making both .221 and .222 out of .223 brass. It works well for about 4 loadings but even with annealing every other firing few last past 6 firings before they split. Factory 222 brass doesnt seem to have the same affliction so I quit making mine and just paid the difference for 222s.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I wonder why they don't make it past the 4-6 firings? Possiblly the thickness of the brass overall, not being drawn thinner by the factory process? FL sizing setting the shoulder back too often? Does neck sizing lengthen the case life?

Don't know why I am concerned though. Like I said these will probablly be used solely for hunting, and if lost- oh, well. Other than slight differences in load development between the cases and bullets vs. boolits, case life may be a moot point, I think.

BCall makes a good point on the inside/outside issue. Outside it is.

[FN in MT]

Once I had fireformed cases I NECK sized only. So despite noot overworkign the necks...I still had splits.

FWIW...The most long lived cases I had...5 firings, without issues.....were some old NORMA222 Rem brass that I sized down. Moot point as the NORMA brass is about three times as expensive as simply buying Rem cases.

FN in MT

[Charlie Sometimes]

Once I had fireformed cases I NECK sized only. So despite noot overworkign the necks...I still had splits.

FWIW...The most long lived cases I had...5 firings, without issues.....were some old NORMA222 Rem brass that I sized down. Moot point as the NORMA brass is about three times as expensive as simply buying Rem cases.

FN in MT

Norma brass IS expensive- but in all my experience, it is very good brass. It looks to be made of a slightly different alloy, as it tarnishes differently. Lapua is similar, too. Military surplus is my intended supply in this project- cheap and easy to find or replace. The extra trouble is not a factor, IMHO.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

This was the process: (l to r) stock .222, move half of the shoulder back w/Redding form die, move the rest of the shoulder back w/Redding form die, resize neck and form more shoulder w/Redding form die (the step between .221 and 17FB), full length size in .17 FB die (rcbs) then trim on a drill press and turn necks.

[chrispy]

I have tried all sorts of 223 brass for reforming to 221 FB. The best so far is WCC 223. It forms down nicely without the need to inside or outside turn the necks.

I have a .255 chamber neck, and the brass has a 254 neck. nice. The Remmy brass mikes at 245 -249.

Dies used are Lee with the decapper left in.

Only down side to the WCC brass is the nasty primer crimp. I need to buy a primer pocket swage tool to fix that.

Accuracy from the reformed brass is superior to the factory stuff too.

[Charlie Sometimes]

This was the process: (l to r) stock .222, move half of the shoulder back w/Redding form die, move the rest of the shoulder back w/Redding form die, resize neck and form more shoulder w/Redding form die (the step between .221 and 17FB), full length size in .17 FB die (rcbs) then trim on a drill press and turn necks.

Why did you move half the shoulder back then the other half in two steps? Why not all all at once, if it can be done easily?

[flashhole]

This link shows how I do it. I especially like to use military brass when reforming but I have to neck turn to get a loaded case to chamber in my Rem 700. My K&M neck turn tool has a carbide neck reamer as the mandrel so I do both at the same time.

I've migrated away from the saw blade to a mini tubing cutter, much cleaner and easier. I have to flare the neck where the tubing cutter pinches it down a bit but I just use my deburring tool and it works fine.

Refoming them goes surprisingly fast once you get the hang of it and nail down all the work steps. I sold all my factory brass in faovor of my reforms because I get better chamber fit and better accuracy.


http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=54312&highlight=flashhole

[Charlie Sometimes]

Did some measuring today- the formed brass neck ID is 0.217, OD is 0.260 after running through the sizer die, and trimmed to length. Should be 0.2245, and 0.253, respectively. Working on getting an outside neck trimmer, and once I do, I'll be ble to fit to chamber. I thought about making a chamber cast to check and see how close I am before I get the trimmer. Might do that tomorrow.

Thanks for the link, flashhole! Good stuff there. Gonna read it again in the morning! Gives me some other ideas, and includes some things I have been thinking about, too.

It would be nice if someone made a tubing cutter built like your thickness micrometer. The cutter could roll against the round anvil and cut the brass without being swaged down.

[flashhole]

If your interest is to determine how much you need to turn off the neck you can also measure the OD of a case that has been fired in your gun instead of doing a chamber cast. The fired brass will generally constrict back to leave about .002" clearance in the chamber.

[DLCTEX]

Charlie, I wonder if you insert a lee case trimmer pilot in the case and then cut with the mini tubing cutter to avoid crimping the case mouth? I cut 308 blank brass to length when making shot shell brass for 45 ACP and remove the crimp with an RCBS case chamfer tool, then size the neck down in a 41 mag size die.No need to chamfer the outside as the cutter has done that.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Reread your link posts, and the link to where you initially fired your 221 FB.
I guess by now you've discovered that it was a factory crimp die and not a neck sizing die the guy was refering to in that one post.
Lee will make a set of 221 FB collet dies for you. Here is their e-mail repsonse I received.

"We don't make a collet die for the 221 Fireball only because there is not enough demand. A Custom Collet Die Set costs $55 per set which consists of the Collet sizer and the Dead Length Bullet Seater, a shell holder and dipper.

If you are interested in a custom collet die set, send payment, and three fired cases from the rifle that the ammunition is to be reloaded for. We use these cases to determine the dimensions of the dies to be made. Please also send a couple sample bullets, so we can test the dies before shipment.

Current lead time for a Custom Collet Die set is anywhere between 2-6 months. All orders are charged a $4.50 fee for shipping and handling. Foreign orders pay an additional 35% Export Fee."

I would like to have the neck sizing collet die, but not sure if it is worth the money. The dead length bullet seating die would pretty much be the same as the 22 Hornet die, as is the rest of the stuff. Once they have my stuff, they are pretty much set to do any body else a die set, and make a killing. They have already made limited runs of 221 FB standard die sets, so what are they waiting for? ME, or someone else to complete their information?

The 22 Hornet collet die will work- IF you set a approximately 3/8 thick shim under/around the die/case combo on top of the ram to interact with the collet. It will work only on factory cases of proper neck thinkness. The formed ones will not enter due to thickness- might work after thinning, though. The neck of the Hornet being longer prevents full insertion. So really, why does Lee need my cases or that much money to correct what basically becomes a length problem?
Yes, Hornet brass is thinner, but I don't think it squeezes it that hard to make that much difference.

Right now, all of my 221 FB brass has been processed for loading, so I don't have the fired empty cases to check the OD of a fired case. But, I think I will resolve that situation today!
I've got most of the equipment you are using for forming- with a few exceptions. Gonna start looking for the other stuff I don't have and get busy!

Again, thanks for the link!

[Charlie Sometimes]

Charlie, I wonder if you insert a lee case trimmer pilot in the case and then cut with the mini tubing cutter to avoid crimping the case mouth? I cut 308 blank brass to length when making shot shell brass for 45 ACP and remove the crimp with an RCBS case chamfer tool, then size the neck down in a 41 mag size die.No need to chamfer the outside as the cutter has done that.

I'll give that a try later today, too! Thanks.

[flashhole]

I will have to try that myself.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Tried it- no fun. Seemed to take longer to cut, couldn't get the mini tubing cutter to where I really needed it to be, and then it was hard to remove the case and scrap brass ring off the mandrel. Great idea and intentions, but slower and not worth it. Oh well, maybe a design flaw? :lol:

Didn't get to shoot any- worked on tractor instead! Where are my priorities? :groner:

[flashhole]

Charlie, you inspired me to make up another batch of 50 re-forms. I used PMC 223 brass. The necks definately needed to be turned. I actually removed more material than I thought I would have to with that brass. It was every bit as thick as the 5.56 military brass I reform.

I should have mentinoed before, when resizing Winchester brass with the W-W headstamp I never had to turn the neck. It's only with military brass that I turn the necks. I actually prefer to turn the necks to get a good fit to my chamber.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'm pricing the missing items from your list you posted.
Basically, I'm missing the form die, and the K&M tools.
Precision Reloading looks to be the best place to get it all, so far.

I've also got about 300 factory cases now.
That ought to hold me until I can gather the "troops".
Gonna GIT-R-DONE one of these days! :lol:

Did some shooting yesterday with the Fireball and my 45-70- got some good targets to post- if I can ever get me another scanner to use! Might take them to Kenkos and get them put on my thumb drive.........

[flashhole]

If you are interested I have a Redding 221 Fireball Trim Die I can sell (I have two) that I use for the initial reforming. You still need a FL sizing die but this die gets you a long way down the road for converting 223 brass to 221 brass.

The K&M tool is a super neck turn tool. If you get one get the carbide cutting mandrel that inside neck reams at the same time you outside neck turn.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yes, your set up is what I was going to duplicate with the neck turning tool. You have the pilot adjustment attachment too, I see.

I measured a few fired cases from my rifle today- neck is 0.250 +/- 1 or 2 thousandths either side on a few. One went to 0.255- don't know why. I might have played with that one. My factory case count is 360 new and once fired- that should hold me until I get everything, huh?

PM on the way about the Redding Trim Die.

[flashhole]

Yes, you have plenty of brass to last quite a while. The Fireball is not hard on brass, especially if you anneal it once. I think the primer pocket will wear out before you have a problem with the neck. This is one cartridge that benefits greatly from extra processing like uniforming the flash holes. Mild primers are the order of the day too. Let the powder do the work. My gun provides fine accuracy.

PM'ed back.

[flashhole]

Charlie, this is my Fireball.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/GuideGun/NewStock2.jpg

[dk17hmr]

I have a 300 Whisper which was designed on the 221 fireball case, I use .223/556 brass to make it. I bought a mini tubing cutter at Home Depot for something like $7. Works great and when I cut it using the shoulder to guide the cutter there is very little trimming to be done on my Hornady trimmer. Dents in the neck come out when you run them through the full length sizer with the expander button in....which needs to be done before you final trim.

[flashhole]

I bought one of the mini tubing cutters too, works great. I filed a recess in the side to allow the case to set a bit deeper in the cutter.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Tried some loads this past weekend using 14.5 gr. Lil Gun, CCI 500 Small Pistol primers, 40 gr. BTBT Nosler bullets. Shot to nearly the same point of impact at 75 yards as did a load consisting of 13.0 gr. Lil Gun, CCI 500 Small Rifle primers, 55 gr. SPT Sierra bullets. Somewhat of a noise level difference between the loads, too. The loads with Small Pistol primers were a little quiter, I thought.

I have not uniformed the primer pockets- yet. I have trimmed the flasholes in all my case though. I know that has made a real difference in accuracy in the performance of previous loads used in long range rifle cartridges.

I will be down tomorrow by Home Depot, and I will look for the mini tubing cutter and see if mine is different- might get one to try. Mine is kinda cheap.

[yarro]

I have helped do it for a friend who had an XP-100. Here is what I learned.

1) Military cases have to be reamed as the brass is thicker in the case body than comercial, and you need a undersized expander button in your die when forming. You can also outside turn the necks to the shoulder instead then run through the sizing die with the proper expander button to bump the neck up.

2) Comercial cases didn't have to be reamed, at least for the chamber in his gun.

3) Comercial once fired cases had a higher rate of defects, Military cases were second, and virgin comercial brass had almost no defect rate.

4) It was a great big pain in the ass.

5) They don't last as long as Remington factory cases, which I think are around 40-45 bucks /100 from Midway. Shave ~5 bucks /hundred if you buy a thousand.

6) He got more consistent results from prepped factory brass versus the various .223 cases that we formed 50 test cases from each, Federal, Win, LC, WCC, PMC (if I have good recollection).

7) After all that BS, he told me he bought 1000 factory cases. I felt like pushing him out of my car while we were driving down the freeway.

8) I was a "learning experience". I learned just buy the damn cases unless you have to make them cause the guys making them want 2 bucks a case, like for my 8mmx58R Danish and 50 Danish Rolling blocks. If you are bored, it will fill time.

-yarro

[Charlie Sometimes]

Forgot to mention this last night-

I just got some new Remington 221 Fb cases- 200 to be exact. There were 203 between both bags. While sizing, trimming to length, and deburing the flash hole I found 14 that had cracked necks or poorly formed shoulders that are unusable!

They are definite cracks- you can see them on the inside of the neck and feel it with your finger nail. Poor QC, at the least. The worst would be if they are getting in such a hurry to catch up to the demand for components that this has slipped through the processes.

I am going to contact Remington and let them know. I want them replaced.

I had some Winchester ammo and components not too long ago that had issues. When I contacted them, they had me send back the ammo (to QC at their expense), and in return sent me COUPONS toward the purchase of new Winchester ammo of my choice. The coupons (there were several in various denominations) in total didn't cover the price of a full box, and the retailer wouldn't allow more than one coupon on each box. So guess who got stuck in that deal?

We'll see what BIG GREEN does.

[flashhole]

yarro - my experience in re-forming 223 to 221 has been very good. I agree with your comments about not needing to ream commercial brass, both WW and R-P are sufficiently thin that they don't even need neck turning. I don't think the military brass I have been re-forming will ever wear out. If anything I believe the primer pocket will give up the ghost before the neck does. I have some re-forms that have been fired more than 20 times and still going strong. My loads are just under max, I use mostly RE #7 and LilGun powder with 40-50 grain bullets. I will lose between 2-4 when I do a batch of 100 and those are almost always lost on the initial forming when the case looks like a miniature long neck bottle of beer. The neck will colapse on itself vertically with a crease.

[Charlie Sometimes]

After my last post on this thread this morning, I got the contact number for Remington Customer Service, called, and after punching a few "Press <1> for English" type instructions, and just one transfer after that, I got to talk to someone at the brass factory! :D YES, actually TALK to a person! :o

They are going to replace the brass and throw in a few more for my trouble. :D 8-) Don't know how many that will be- we shall see.

They are sending a label, etc. to return the brass, and the bag for review.

This went WAY BETTER than the contact did with Winchester. 8-)

[yarro]

I have found that newer 5.56 military brass is of a much higher quality than the 70s/80s dated stuff. I ended up scrapping 5k of once fired LC74/75 brass that had 5% of the cases separate about 1/4" back from the shoulder upon firing and others had cracks in that spot. Didn't matter what it was fired in and the forward part easily came out or was already loose in the chamber. Also noticed that 20 years ago when I bought military once fired cases I got a large number of date stamps that were much earlier than the date I bought, and all the stuff that I bought in the last 5 years as been one mfg and one date (sometimes the current year) even when I bought 20k at a time.

I think that the military brass lot that we were using was more work hardened than you get today as most of the failures on firing were split necks. His biggest thing was that sorted commercial cases gave him more uniform accuracy. He became a benchrest shooter so I guess he got the tiny group bug, and I got the tinkering bug from our experience.

Also, all the trimming, reaming, neck turning was done by hand, which was tedious. I have electric solutions now. Also between wife, kid, and job I barely have the time to cast and reload now. The one thing that I got from forming other stuff later was that Imperial Sizing Die Wax really helps as long as you don't use too much in which case you get dented or collapsed shoulders. Also learned the value of a using well built press when forming as I ripped the top off the ram on an old Texan press.

The best cases that I ever formed were Lapua cases. Even when neck size was bumped up the necks remained very uniform in thickness. Other cases seem to lose thickness less uniformly and need more work with the neck turner to clean up after bumping the neck size up.

As an aside, a friend had a prairie dog rifle in .223 improved, which basically straightened the case and sharpened the shoulder, which required fire forming after sizing, until I got about 1400-1500 5.56 cases that had been shot in an MG with a chamber that left the case walls straight and the shoulder pushed slightly forward. He resized them all in his die and they looked like the fire formed cases so I was able to sell all these culls to him instead of scrapping them.

-yarro

[Russ in WY]

If they aren't annealed properly then you will have case failures for sure in a short time. My experience here is from making 20 VT case from 221 Fireball & 222 win brass. I had a tight neck chamber also so had to outside neck turn. All cases were annealed on the Ken light Mach, nice rig for sure. So far have had no case losses. The 221 Rem brass has very lousy neck thickness , varies a bunch. My 2¢ Russ.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Charlie, this is my Fireball.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/GuideGun/NewStock2.jpg

I like those thumb hole stocks, but I have yet to find one that is left-handed thumb hole with right hand bolt notch! I am a lefty that prefers right handed actions. Looks like a real sweet shooter. :smile:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Got the form & trim die. Now I would be "in high cotton" if I had the case neck trimmer, etc.
I've got a plan....... :smile:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Finally got a response back from Remington about the spilt factory cases.
The letter says that they had less annealing at the case mouth than normal.
It also says that their annealing processes are checked around the clock by a special support group working out of their chemical laboratory.
They must have been on break when these were made.

Anyway, they are sending a check to cover replacement of a whole bag of brass!
BIG GREEN IS ALL RIGHT! :bigsmyl2:

That's way better than Winchester did.
I knew that I liked their brass best for some reason, besides it being easier to find around here. :grin:

[flashhole]

Charlie - Glad to see Remington stepped up and sent some new brass.

I had my Fireball to the range today. I cleaned it really well because the groups were opening up a bit but I think the problem may have been more linked to warmer temps than a dirty barrel. It likes to be cold.

Today's 10-shot groups were one ragged hole at 120 yards with no fliers. I ran a Bore Snake down the barrel after every shot and let the barrel cool to cold before shooting. I really like this gun.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Okay, quit holding out. :twisted:
What load combination did you use to get one ragged hole at 120 yards? :confused:
The suspense is killing me! :grin:

[flashhole]

My go-to load for the Fireball is a level 1.3cc Lee Dipper Cup (~19.6 grains) of Reloader #7 over 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets and CCI 400 primers. I prefer CCI BR4 primers when I can find them but the 400 primers work fine.

In all fairness, I only get one ragged hole when I am patient enough to let the barrel cool to cold before each shot. It took me 3 hours to shoot 20 rounds (two groups of ten shots) but I verified my load and smiled a lot at the same time. The groups open up a bit if I shoot too quickly and the barrel gets hot.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I will write that one down! :bigsmyl2:
I have never used Reloader #7- but it looks like I am going to have to soon! :grin:

Have you ever tried CCI 500 Small Pistol primers with any of your loads?
It was reported to help accuracy in the 22 Hornet, but there is a lot of differences betwen these rounds- I didn't have issues with the Hornet I had so really didn't need to use them.
I have tried them in a few rounds of 221 J-Bullets, but not enough to be sure of an effective difference yet.
I have yet to try any cast boolit loads in this rifle, where they may make a noticable difference, if accuracy problems should present themselves.

I am also looking at the 222 Remington rifle/cartridge combo. The neck is longer than the 221 and should be an excellent cast boolit shooter. I guess I'll be adding another rifle to the collection soon! :groner:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Well, shucks! That is the same one I wrote down from you before! :oops:

I guess I thought you had stumbled on to something "new and improved"! :lol:

Well, if you have something that works, and it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? :rolleyes:

[flashhole]

I have found that using a milder primer in the Fireball makes for better accuracy. I really like the CCI BR4 primers but can never find them.