New(to me)94AE

[hpdrifter]

Just acquired me a new Win 94AE, with no steenkin safeties;thank ya, and just noticed something.......well interesting.

I got to looking at the top eject I bought a couple o weeks ago and noticed that the link pin, the pin that holds the link into the receiver is a screw with threads on it and the old 94(~1913 vintage) has a cross PIN with a center retaining screw and so does the 94AE. The AE was made after the top eject(~1973). So I guess Winchester or US Repeating arms went back to the captured cross pin at some point in time.

I just got this AE and it had been painted witha camo job. Got it for a song($155). I took some brakleen and got 85% of the paint off, but the other 15% is gonna require a complete tear down. Oh, well, there's worse things to be doing.

Was thinking of getting a 375 barrel and putting on this frame. Is this a good, bad, or ok train of thought? Will the AE withstand the 375 ok? I know they made em, but did they stop for a reason other than slow sales?

YOur thoughts would be muchos appreciated.

Thanks.

[omgb]

The 307, 356 and 375 Win AE were all on modified frames that were thicker and deisgned for pressures around 55K. If your AE is of that type you could rebarrel it. If it is not I wouldn't do it. The big question is, what do you have?

[StarMetal]

From a very big discussion on a leveraction only forum it was talked about and discovered that the beefer frame Winchester put on the 94 actually did nothing. As you notice there latest high pressure rounds 94's were built on the old conventional frame. Also they said the worse thing Winchester could have done was cut out the right side of the receiver 1/4 for ejection purposes. This actually weakened the frame alot.

Got ahead and barrel it to what you want. Gee whiz, I mean if some companies got 92 actions out that are chambered for the 454 Casul, that 94 frame is going to handle a 375 Winchester. Yeah yeah I know, those 92's have a stronger alloyed receiver, but gee whiz again, where talking the 454 has to be proofed waaaay over 60,000, so I don't think you're going to load a 375 to that and if you do you're nuts.

This stuff is exactly where clarkm comes in handy. Explains why he does stuff.

Joe

[Doble Troble]

Or you could play it safe and classic and chamber in 38-55.

[StarMetal]

If you doubt me go to the first site I pasted here, it's gunbrokers and it's a big bore 375 Winchester Model 94. Notice the rear portion of the receiver..see how it's thicker there. This is also a top eject. Now go the second site I pasted. It's the current Winchester Model 94 Timber in 450 Marlin. Notice how the rear of the receiver was slimmed back down.

Joe

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=53205281
Don't forget to scroll to the pictures at the bottom of that first site.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/category.asp?cat=003C

On the Winchester site go to the timber model near the bottom, click, then click on the rifle to enlarge it.

[Doble Troble]

No doubt, just like the 38-55.

[onceabull]

hpdrifter:If you considering rebarreling that standard AE frame ,be aware that Winchester Factory BB barrels will not be a "screw in "replacement on the standard AE frame .There are some oem 38/55 barrels that are, and you can,of course,chamber and fire factory 375W ammo therein. AT YOUR OWN RISK, and not for me. :roll: Onceabull

[omgb]

I saw the same blog (to which Starmetal is referencing) over on leverguns. I still think it may be risky. Why don't you drop a line to Turnbull and ask him about the feasability. If anyone really knows, it would be him.

As to the barrel issue, I've heard much the same. IIRC, and I'm not too sure I do, the extractor/ejector cuts on the barrel are different for the AE barrels.

[hpdrifter]

Thanks for the input.

The onliest reason I have the idea, is because over at Numrich Gun parts, they have 375 and 444 barrels for Standard AE's.

Thanks again.

[omgb]

You know, when it gets right down to it, you are never going to really hit >375 velocities with cast bullets any way. When you get up to 1800 fps, leading can be a problem and in my experience, accuracy begins to suffer with cast bullets in that caliber. the magic velocity for me has come in between 1600 and 1700 fps with 250 grain bullets. Those are essentially +P 38-55 loads so, rebarreling to .375 might not be such a bad deal just so long as you remember not to use factory ammo. In the long run, you may just want that chamber lengthened to 38-55 and using the gun as such.

[hpdrifter]

omgb.....exactly what was lurking inthe recesses of my head.

[Trailblazer]

The 375 barrels and all the Big Bores have larger threads than the standard 94. A Big Bore barrel will not screw onto a standard receiver unless you rethread it, which can be done.

The only practical difference between the 375 and the 38-55 is the pressure factory loads are loaded to. I guess one other difference is the 375 uses a 12" twist and the 38-55 is usually a slower twist.

[StarMetal]

To tell you the truth, I think Winchester came up with the Big Bore changes on the receiver, the thick parts, and the new big caliber (375 at that time) as a sales gimmick to sell more of them. Like I said the receiver was plenty strong enough before and in my opinion the 375 isn't a BIG pressure round to start with. If one stays in the parameters of the reloading manuals or factory loads, it's a pussycat. Sure an overzealous reloading could get into trouble, but that could be done with any caliber on any rifle.

Joe

[Trailblazer]

One Winchester catalog I have says that the standard receiver is made from 1119 steel and the Big Bore from 1141 steel. The higher carbon content in the BB would respond to heat treatment better and help prevent battering of the locking lug mortise if it was properly heat treated.

[hpdrifter]

Thanks for all of the input.

1. I'd have to call and get clarification on thread diameter.

2. I'd keep the load to warm 38-55 loads.

3. I'd really prefer 38-55 anyway.

4. I'd worry about my son putting some 375's in it someday when I'm dead and gone.

5. So, I'll try to find the 38-55.

[Trailblazer]

Standard 94 thread = .809"x20TPI.
Big Bore thread = .875"x28TPI.

See there? No need to call.

A fellow gun tinkerer here did buy one of the Numrich 375 barrels and rethreaded it for a standard 94 so it can be done. He shoots light lead bullet loads in it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a 375BB and love it but the 38/55 would have to be the go. Could you use a factory barrel if one is available or just rebore? Mick.

[onceabull]

hpd----& 4fing-----------.Buffalo Arms website is still showing the 26" HalfOctHalfRd. 38/55 barrels for the 94 AE at $150 ea. fob N.Idaho. probably difficult to find quality rebore for less, BUT, unless you have the right forearm& cap,mag.tube,Hanger(s) on hand there can be considerably more expense. Makes a nice looking rig,though..Not sure what it would take to get one under the Southern Cross.... :) Onceabull

[hpdrifter]

just ordered me a 26" Octagon 38-55 barrel from Numrich. I overlooked it my earlier search. And yeah, the extra parts are gonna cost as much as the barrel. But, I got the 94(a top eject)for a song and I have always wanted the longer octagon barrel, especially in 38 caliber. I can dress it up, antique it, or whatever and be a lot cheaper than buying a winnie alread in that configuration.

I'm happier to do this with the top eject, cause it looks mo better anyway. Thanks for all of the input and thoughts.

[onceabull]

hpdrifter.----- That's a good choice, AND A GOOD price..!! :drinks: Onceabull

[JudgeBAC]

While on this subject, which would be preferable in you gentlemens' opinion? Winchester 94 big bore .375 Winchester, Marlin in .375 Winchester or Marlin Cowboy in .38-55?

[omgb]

I have a Marlin CB and I have a Win BB pre AE and pre-safety. Of the two, the Win is the prettier gun, the Marlin maybe the stronger. I took my BB and got rid of the hood, had the ramp taken off and a marbel's Patridge blade installed. Then I put a Williams FP on it. It's light, fast and accurate. Now, if I needed a scoped gun, well, the Marlin would take it hands down. I like my BB because if I want, I can run condom bullets through it at full-tilt-boogie or as I do most of the time, load it with duplex BP loads just like a 38-55.

[StarMetal]

Marlins aren't stronger Marline aren't stronger Marlins aren't stronger. It's a misconception because of the solid top receiver.

Joe