Surplus & Ultra-Mags?

[Bug]

A bud and I recently cobbled up a couple of Remington Ultra Mags. His is in 7mm, and mine in .300. Has anyone tried any of the surplus powders in these?
Of the powdersI have on hand, 5010, 7383, and Data 86 seem the most likely. I'd appreciate any guidance you can give. Gonna stick with jacketed on these two. Most likely 140s in the 7mm, and 180s in the .300........Thanks.

[swheeler]

Bug;
REM 700 BDL-26 " bbl

180 gr Rem CL
FC 215 pr
101 grs IMR5010(lot LC84A)= 3033 fps

200 gr Sierra GK
FC215 pr
101 grs IMR5010(lot LC84A)=3042 fps
101 grs IMR 5010(lot LC 83A)=2907 fps

Remington factory loaded 180 gr=3213 fps
5010 is a little on the slow side for 180 gr bullets in 300 RUM, now may just be the ticket in the 7mm RUM

[Shuz]

Remington .300RUM--26 BBL

CCI 250 mag
101g WC860(lot lc84k680l030)
Sierra 180spfb
OAL 3.865
Chrono'd 3166fps SD25
MOA group

Worked up to this load and past it and came back due to accuracy and the miniscule increase in velocity that another grain made.

Hope this helps--Shuz

[swheeler]

Bug; if you have other powders and bullets than those you specified this might help

Same 700 BDL 26"

190 gr Hornady- FC215-109.0 Grs Wc872(lot 49617)= 3171 fps,11ES
190 gr Hornady-FC215-92.0 grs VV N165=3042 fps
150 gr WIN PP-CCI 250- 94.0 grs H 4831= 3489 fps
150 gr Hornady-Fc215-110.0 grs Wc872(49617)=3260 fps
220 gr Hornady-FC215-102.0 grs Wc872(49617)2939 fps
200 gr Sierra- FC215-106.0 grs WC872(49617)3063fps
180 gr Speer SPBT- FC215 -101.0 gr H Retumbo=3318 fps ES 14
150 gr WinPP-FC215-96.0 gr VVN165=3337 fps
200 gr CAST C309-200-R -FC 210- 27.0 AA5744=1607fps ES12 _ Average of 4 five shot groups 1.27 "@ 100 yds- smallest group .870" COAL 3.650" All warnings apply-work your loads up.

Scot

There is published data for DP86 on Accurate, looks pretty good

[GooseGestapo]

Hey guys!

A new forum member, but long time reloader and boolit caster.

It's good to see some others are "tinkering" with the .300 RUM

I "rescued" a used Savage M110 from a pawn shop for "cheap" (~$200). It would not "move" because of cost of factory ammo (~$2 a pop). Cost and curiosity was only reason I got this rifle as it is WAY-WAY more powerful than I really need.

I got it home and found out why is was "available".. Evidently extractor was installed "backwards" at the factory. It would not extract. At first, I thought that the extractor was broken or defective, but then noticed that it might have been in backwards. After reinstalling correctly, everything was "great", but later found out it wasn't.

At the range, the first round fired required hammering the bolt back to extract. The case had 4 longitudnal "scrapes" on the main body. Evidently, someone (previous owner) had used some sort of steel rod to eject the cases and had scratched the chamber. Gun had evidently had less than 20rds fired through it.

After returning home, I made up a polishing mandrel utilizing a shotgun cleaning rod and a 12ga patch jag, and a folded patch of wet/dry sand paper (The tip of the jag prevented inserting the thing too far and damaging the throat).

After polishing the chamber I returned to the range. Rifle shoots great now.
Factory Remington with 200gr Nosler Part. (thrown in with rifle deal by shop), it gave a 4 shot group of at/under 1" for last 4 shots of box (20rds; fired for the brass, and scope set up, ect.........) Chrono showed velocities right at factory advertised for 24"bbl ..... 3,050fps. Very Good Ammo!

I've tuned trigger (a slight amount of stoneing of the bolt release/sear was required to make the sear torsion bar adjustment "work"; before, it had a 8+lb trigger, and sear bar could be removed and no-change in trigger pull. Now, about 4 turns from "zero" gives a crisp 2.75lb trigger pull.......It'll lift a 2.5lb NRA trigger weight from the bench.

What I was wanting to know though is:

Working up loads for this rifle I have utilized the following powders:
H50BMG (max loads do equal 3,150 fps; limited by case capacity; accuracy fair)
H4831 (duplicated min. and max at "book" levels, accuracy dissapointing)
IMR-4350 (ditto H4831)
RL-25 (see below!)
RETUMBO (see below!)

My question relates to some Instrumental velocities that I have obtained with both RL-25 and Retumbo.
I've used both 180gr Remington Cor-lokts, and Sierra 180 SoftPoints (flat base).

As I approach "book" maximums, I see a drammatic increase in the velocities. Some well below, or, just under max in the books, Max. load "for my rifle" velocities are as much as 200fps above the "books" even though charges are below max.

IE: 100.0gr of Retumbo, RP case (prepped to include neck-turning, flash-hole reaming, uniforming primer pocket), Fed#215match Primer, Sierra 180gr SoftPoint @ 3.615" (.030" off lands), I'm getting 3-shot 1" groups, no pressure signs except primers that look like factory loads- slightly flatened, and very slightly cratered.
But, chrono shows 3,515fps, and only about 25fps spreads, accuracy is best I've gotten in this rifle. Layne Simpson's Load in the Hodgdon 2006 manual of 98.0gr gives about the same as his; 3,200fps, but is not accurate in my rifle. For curiosity sake, I tried going "higher", to see where Max. for my rifle really was. 100.0gr is IT, with best accuracy, I don't see point of going higher!!

Ditto with RL-25 past 92.0gr and same bullet/case/seating depth, ect.
92.0= ~3,170fps
92.5= 3,220 (accurate with 180gr Corlokt)
93.0= 3,270
93.5= 3,330 (my determined max. for my rifle) Very accurate for factory sporter.
94.0 gave some light resistance with bolt opening
95.0 gave some difficulty with bolt opening, and some burnishing of case head and was called "quits" here even though book max is 96.0gr.

Have any of you seen these "extravagant" velocities with this cartridge??

I thought that my Chrongraph was giving false readings, but checking with other Guns and Loads, (ie: a friends Savage M110 in .22-250 w/ 40gr bullets at 4,000-4,100fps, rechecking with CZ452 and match .22lr at 1,050fps), I know the chrono is not the issue.

With the other powders, everything is "Normal", with velocities in the 3,150fps range with appropriate charges per "books". (Except Noslers "accuracy" load of 80.0gr of IMR4350 and 180gr bullet- mine threw them out at ~3,150 as expected but 2"plus groups.

Is this cartridge Really as good as the Chrono is saying ????
Pressures are not "excessive" but velocities seem to be.

(Rifle is an "average" Savage M110 w/26" bbl).

[BD]

I do not own any of the ultra mags. However I have been hunting with, and reloading for, a .270 WBY mag for some time, and one of my pet peeves with the industry in general is that almost all of the data for the .270 WBY was developed in the '50s and 60's. Everybody is testing the newer powders in the latest loundenboomers and offering no new data for the .270 WBY. So I have spent some time with 860 in the .270 WBY. It works quite well with one small issue. It is very temperature sensitive. In most cases folks are trying to get velocity when they're loading for the magnums, and we're staying pretty close to the upper edge. It made me some nervous to watch a powder experience a 175 fps velocity spread over a temperature range of only 30 degrees F, knowing that I can expect as much as a ninety degree temperature variation between a western fall elk hunt and a winter Quebec Caribou hunt and that I will not see either of those temperature extremes until I'm actually in the field, on the hunt.

I have also been experimenting with RL25, H1000 and Retumbo. While no good data exists for those powders in the .270 WBY, ( there is H1000 data but my experience shows it to be dangerously out of date). I have corresponded with the manufacturers and followed thier advice. To date the RL 25 has been the most managable. In my rifle H1000 and Retumbo both produced 200 fps over the manufacturers expected max velocities at the manufacturers suggested starting loads. Going up 1/2 a grain set speed records and gave me a stiff bolt. This makes me a bit nervous as there is no published pressure data in this area. RL 25 got me to where I wanted to be, but at 2 grains over what the manufacturer suggested should be the max load. I had no pressure signs and hunted with that load for a year, but in the end I gave up the 125 fps and backed down the two grains for piece of mind. RL 25 is also a bit temperature sensitive, but nothing like WC860. RL 25 put the entire initial load workup into an inch at 100 yards, 21 shots over a 3 grain increase, thats got a lot going for it, and made it easy for me to decide to back down. Of course I blew it as soon as I walked down range and realized what I had done. For the record, so far everything hit with a 150 grain Nosler Partiton at 3,175 fps did die right there, just as they did at 3,300.

I suppose what I'm really trying to say here is that we need to exercise a bit more caution when we're playing around at 65,000 psi and above. At these pressures you are reading the metalurgy of your particular batch of brass as much as you're reading real pressure signs, and in some cases it only takes a cartridge left in the sun for 15 minutes to get into the 75,000+ psi range where the unpredictable and scary things happen. It is a far different thing to experiment in the pressure range above 65,000 psi than it is to play with loads at the pressures we use to send our cast boolits down range, and much smaller variations become significant,

BD
Still Sweatin' my a** off in the Low Country
(and wonderin' why all these rich folks decided to settle in the swamp)

[GooseGestapo]

I appreciate your reply.

I too am just a bit reluctant to go above the Manuf. recommendation. But, what I'm seeing is even below what they recommend as Max.

Part of the equation I'm sure is that since early June, almost always the temps have been in the 90's when I'm shooting/chronographing. Thankfully, the range where I shoot has a covered firing points/benches which helps keep the temp's down a little.

What suprises me though is where i'm seeing best accuracy. Where I'd normally have long before stopped with lesser cartridges, such as .30/30, and .30/06.

I recently got just fabulous performance from a Stevens m200 in .243 with Nosler's recommended max/most accurate load for a .243. RL-22 with a 100gr Hornady BTSP Interlok is just the ticket. Shoots .660" for 5-shots @2,975fps from a 22" bbl.

MUCH more pleasant than the .300RUM.

[BD]

Loading newer powders for the 300 RUM I think you're probably on firm ground with the loading manuals. I was a bit shaken by how far off the Hogdon data was for H1000, and how far off Hogdon's starting load advice was for Retumbo. My problem with the .270 Wby is that there is no data at all for most of the newer powders, and what data there is, is pretty old. The exception is Barnes. They have some new data in their latest manual. Unfortunately I never had any luck with the older Barnes X bullets so I'm reluctant to spend the big money experimenting with the newer Barnes offerings. I'll probably stick with RL 25 and the nosler partitions for now, and learn to live with the temp variations.
BD

[swheeler]

GGoose; nope, no such experience with Retumbo, pretty much linear from 97-100 grs, no surprises. I have NOT found this powder to be temp sensitive at all, quite the opposite, especially after shooting 872(whuich is very temp sensitive)
The throat in my rifle is WAY longer(.350") than yours, and Shuz must be shooting his Remington single-shot, 3.865" OAL??????????? the mag box is only 3.70" 3.865 " would put that 180 PH .030" into the rifling in my rifle. If I feed from the mag I'm going to jump a long ways, that will keep the pressure down from your Salvage>

[GooseGestapo]

Thanks swheeler;

I thought that my throat was long at 3.685" with a 180gr Sierra! But, my mag box will only accomodate a 3.625", but won't reliably feed with over 3.615".

My original plan was to feed this gun one of the Surplus powders and generic 180gr bullets.

About any-old-load that will run the bullet 3,000-3,100fps will do, if accurate.

Didn't expect the amazing velocities that I'm seeing.

Kinda like the Hod. Lil'gun in the ole' .22 Hornet !!!