Powder Cross Reference

[wiljen]

If you know of others, please add to this thread. This is not a list of powders that are close, this is the list of exact equivalents. Bofors Makes the Alliant, Norma, RWS Rhino powders. St. Marks makes the H110/HP38. ADI Makes the bulk of Hodgdon rifle powders and trailboss. The IMR/Hodgdon Data comes from MSDS sheets. The Bofors data comes from the factory ballastician.





ADI Name Hodgdon Name
AS25BP / Trail Boss Trail Boss
AS30N Clays
AS50N International Clays
AP70N Universal Clays
AR2205 IMR 4227 - H4227
AR2207 H4198
AR2215 IMR 4198
AR2219 H322
AR2206H H4895
AR2208 Varget
AR2209 H4350
AR2213 H4831
AR2213SC H4831SC
AR2217 H1000
AR2218 H50BMG
AR2225 Retumbo
Benchmark2 BenchMark

Winchester Name Hodgdon Name
Win 231 HP38
Win 296 H110

RWS Rhino Name Alliant Name
Rhino 12 (RP12) Rl-10x
Rhino 11 (RP11) Rl-15
Rhino 14 (RP14) Rl-19
Rhino 15 (RP15) RL-22
Rhino 25 (RP25) Rl-25

EL-Nielsen
EL 145 RL-17
El 170 RL-33

RWS Rhino Name Norma Name
RP9 Norma 200
RP11 Norma 201
RP14 Norma 202
RP15 Norma 203b
RP18 Norma 204
RP22 Norma MRP
RP30 Norma MRP-2


Norma Name Alliant Name
Norma 203b RL-15
Norma MRP Rl-22

Winchester Name Alliant Name
WXR Rl-22

[RiverRider]

Good to see that, wiljen and thanks for posting it. In case someone does not happen to think of it, that can be copied and pasted into a Word document and saved. I got mine!

[spqrzilla]

Its missing these equivalents:

WW 760 H414

[Rico1950]

Ww540-hs6
ww571-hs7

[StarMetal]

I'm confused :veryconfu Accurate makes their version of 4895, 4350, and 4831. In the order listed they are 2495, 4350, and 3100. The first two are dead duplicates, the jury is out on the 3100.

[wiljen]

I'm confused :veryconfu Accurate makes their version of 4895, 4350, and 4831. In the order listed they are 2495, 4350, and 3100. The first two are dead duplicates, the jury is out on the 3100.

ADI literally makes the powders for Hodgdon. It is not a matter of same burn rate, it is exactly the same powder.

[spqrzilla]

I'm assuming that this list is of directly identical powders. Powders that come off the same manufacturing line and are made to the same specifications.

Not powders merely made by the same manufacturer, and not powders that are merely intended to be similar in burn rate.

I think ADI makes Hodgdon's extruded powders and St Marks makes Hodgdon's spherical (the latter under both Hodgdon brand and the Winchester brand ).
Accurate Arms powders have been sourced all over the world over past decades - Israel, Czech Republic, etc. These days, Accurate Arms powders are to my understanding made by General Dynamics in Ontario (extruded) and General Dynamics plant in St Marks (spherical). Just because AA's sphericals are made in St Marks does not mean that they are now identical to a Hodgdon/WW powder. The plant will make the powder to match AA's specs to the existing product.

[Bloodman14]

Is 'Hercules' 2400 the same as 'Alliant' 2400? I have a metal can of 'Hercules' I picked up in a trade; any one know if I can use it with the 'Alliant'?

[wiljen]

Is 'Hercules' 2400 the same as 'Alliant' 2400? I have a metal can of 'Hercules' I picked up in a trade; any one know if I can use it with the 'Alliant'?

Yes, hercules became alliant some years back. 2400 has evolved some over the years so it wont be exactly the same powder but if you start with starting charges and work up you can use alliant data for hercules 2400 and vice versa.

[Dan Cash]

Is 'Hercules' 2400 the same as 'Alliant' 2400? I have a metal can of 'Hercules' I picked up in a trade; any one know if I can use it with the 'Alliant'?

Yes, but as Wiljen says start low and work up. The new Alliant 2400 does not SEEM as vigorous as the old Herculese version. I just finished a large lot of .357s yesterday and used the last of my Herculese 2400 then finished with Alliant. The old stuff had more energy but did not burn as cleanly.

[shdwlkr]

here is a table I like to use when powder that I want isn't available, nuts I don't see any way to do an attachment. Need help here

[Jim]

WC820 is equivalent to AA #9.

[spqrzilla]

WC820 is equivalent to AA #9.
But not in the sense intended by this sticky. It is not the same powder manufactured to the same specifications. In fact, as a non-canister grade powder, it can't be.

[Bloodman14]

What is "Longshot" equivalent to? I have a LOT of it.

[Jim]

It's between accurate #7 and HS-7.
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

[Bloodman14]

Jim, I thought so, judging from the burn rate charts that I have. Do you know of a good starting load for the 7.62 x 39? Gun is an SKS. As Longshot is faster than 2400, can I start %10 lower than 2400 'starting loads'?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Wil,
Can you cite a source for some of IMR's powders being sourced from ADI?? I was under the impression that even though Hodgdon bought IMR, the powder was all still made in the IMR plant in Valleyfield, Canada still.

[Bulletlube]

Found this, it might be the same did not check before posting.


http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

[spqrzilla]

Bulletlube, that is a useful list of similar burning rates, but does not clearly state which powders are in fact the same powder. There are some lines where some of the powders listed are the same powder and some are not. Like the line that starts with HS7.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I did find some discussion on another forum (via Google) that asserts that IMR-4227 is in fact from ADI. The discussion states that when Hodgdon decided to discontinue H-4227 and only market the IMR- version, they continued acquiring it from ADI, but had ADI coat it in graphite to make it black like the "old" IMR powder.

I also found a criptic notation on the IMR website (now owned and operated by Hodgdon) which (in the history section of the "about us") said that "most" IMR powders are still made at the traditional plant in Canada... "Most" Hmmmm....

[shdwlkr]

The issue of which powders are the same is that the same company may produce the different powders but the chemical mix, coatings change the way it burns so that they maybe very close but not exactly the same.
The rate at which they burn can be similar as is found when one buys surplus powders from military salvage sources and what they tell you to use as loading guidelines.
I don't think you will ever find an exact cross reference as each lot of a given powder is close to the original design but there are still differences and it is up to us the end user to pay attention to lot to lot differences. While these differences are minor and are not really something we have to worry about it does happen.
my .03 cents on the subject

[wiljen]

Wil,
Can you cite a source for some of IMR's powders being sourced from ADI?? I was under the impression that even though Hodgdon bought IMR, the powder was all still made in the IMR plant in Valleyfield, Canada still.


ADI has it on their website. Straight from the horses mouth. And no, not the cross reference chart. There was a page in the documents announcing the agreement with hodgdon.

[spqrzilla]

The issue of which powders are the same is that the same company may produce the different powders but the chemical mix, coatings change the way it burns so that they maybe very close but not exactly the same.
The rate at which they burn can be similar as is found when one buys surplus powders from military salvage sources and what they tell you to use as loading guidelines.
I don't think you will ever find an exact cross reference as each lot of a given powder is close to the original design but there are still differences and it is up to us the end user to pay attention to lot to lot differences. While these differences are minor and are not really something we have to worry about it does happen.
my .03 cents on the subject

Wiljen started the thread with a good listing of which powders are in fact the same powder with different labels for different distributors/markets. Such as the classic H110 / WW 296 pair.

[MakeMineA10mm]

ADI has it on their website. Straight from the horses mouth. And no, not the cross reference chart. There was a page in the documents announcing the agreement with hodgdon.

Thanks Wil, that helps a lot. FYI, I went to their website and couldn't find it out-and-out stating that anymore, but I did find this interesting piece of news in the FAQ section, which aligns with the posts I read in that other forum:


Colour change of AR2205

10 May 2007
The colour of AR2205 has been made darker to align its appearance with other ADI sporting propellants sold in the US market. The change in colour has not changed the powder's ballistic performance therefore reloading data using AR2205 does not need to be altered.



In several places on the site and in the downloadable load guide, it says AR2205 is "very similar" to IMR-4227 (and doesn't mention H4227).

[nody]

I did find some discussion on another forum (via Google) that asserts that IMR-4227 is in fact from ADI. The discussion states that when Hodgdon decided to discontinue H-4227 and only market the IMR- version, they continued acquiring it from ADI, but had ADI coat it in graphite to make it black like the "old" IMR powder.

I also found a criptic notation on the IMR website (now owned and operated by Hodgdon) which (in the history section of the "about us") said that "most" IMR powders are still made at the traditional plant in Canada... "Most" Hmmmm....

Here are three relevant quotes and links:

http://www.hodgdon.com/history.html

To better serve our reloading customers Hodgdon Powder Company continues to grow. Hodgdon purchased IMR® Powder Company in October 2003. IMR legendary powders have been the mainstay of numerous handloaders for almost 100 years. IMR powders continue to be manufactured in the same plant and with the same exacting performance criteria and quality assurance standards that shooters have come to expect.

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/powder.asp

A very fine grained, very fast burning rifle powder suited to .22 Hornet loads but also useful in some Magnum pistol loads. Its burning rate is close to that of IMR 4227.


The most interesting is the Powder Equivalents table, which I don't know how to format, so here's the link:

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

At the bottom is the disclaimer:
"NOTE: These tables are only approximate, showing equivalent values within about 5%."

[wiljen]

The IMR/H 4227 has been beaten to death already in other threads. New IMR 4227 says made in Australia on the cans and is made by ADI. Hodgdon used the stock of IMR they bought up then switched to ADI for current production and discontinued H4227 as the IMR product was the better seller. Call hodgdon tech and they will tell you as much.

[felix]

Here is the complexity in a nutshell. A reproduction chemical has a 5% rating of the baseline chemical. Of course, that means the lot you HAVE on the table is a PLUS or MINUS one of the ORIGINAL. Let's call the ORIGINAL as the lab grade. Any other subsequent lot is a generic grade by medical definition. That means the next lot you purchase can be off by a whole 10 percent from the one on the table. The point here is to suggest that gunpowders we purchase will never be lab grade unless by ACCIDENT. Of all the powders I have purchased over the years, only the VV powders have been what I call perfect in performance from lot to lot. Luck of the draw? Yes. But does it really matter? No, for the most part, because I assume generic grade on every lot no matter what. ... felix

[wiljen]

Also the reason why starting with Max loads is never recommended.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Also the reason why starting with Max loads is never recommended.


You cannot possibly believe how many times I have preached that very thing to people I either was teaching to load or to people that had troubles with their loads from their own self taut ways.Robert

[30cal]

This has made for some great reading,have always wondered about this

[rollmyown]

Does H4895 and H4831 have made in Australia on the container?

[wiljen]

dont have any H4895 but the 4831 and 4831sc both do say made in AUS

[crowbeaner]

H414 is WW 760. Same powder, same facility.

[history@mts.net]

MSDS sheets are the bible of where and what powders are. They don't want to mess around with liability issues (ie pointing the finger at the OEM)

[Full Mold Jack]

If you know of others, please add to this thread.

Great list and handy resource.

I think AS70N is a typo and needs to be AP70N for Universal.

[kasper80]

does anyone know if there is a match for h450 out there?

[wiljen]

does anyone know if there is a match for h450 out there?

H450 was the same powder as Winchester 785 which is also long since discontinued. To my knowledge, there is no direct replacement for H450 but Winchester Supreme 780, the various 4350s and 4831s, Accurate Magpro, Rl-19, and VV N160 should all be in the same general vicinity on the burn rate charts.

some lots of surplus wc852 maybe the original H450 but there considerable lot to lot variation. Wc852 can be quite a bit faster so be sure to work up from a safe low starting point until you know the burn rate of the lot you are working with. I've seen 852 as fast as H380.

[cbriggs57]

Anyone have a source for comparison charts for AA4100? There's very little info on it that I can find, and that and longshot are all I can find locally. The longshot has been on the shelf for weeks. I don't think anyone here knows what to do with it. BTW, I load for 38 sp, 357 mag, 40 SW, 45 acp, and 45/70 marlin.

[trapper9260]

Anyone have a source for comparison charts for AA4100? There's very little info on it that I can find, and that and longshot are all I can find locally. The longshot has been on the shelf for weeks. I don't think anyone here knows what to do with it. BTW, I load for 38 sp, 357 mag, 40 SW, 45 acp, and 45/70 marlin.

If you go to the website that was put on here you will see the info on alot of what you are asking.I know it dose not have longshot but it dose have the other one.

[GrocMax]

If you download the Alliant MSDS sheets they reveal some interesting info, on the product name line there is the following for 10X, 15, 19, 22, 25

"Smokeless powder, RP 12 Reloder® 10X"

"Smokeless powder, RP 11 Reloder® 15"

"Smokeless powder, RP 14 Reloder® 19"

"Smokeless powder, RP 15 Reloder 22"

"Smokeless powder, RP 25 Reloder® 25"

For Reloder 17 it says-

"Smokeless powder, EI-Niesen 145 - Reloder® 17"

For Reloder 33-

"Smokeless powder, EI-Niesen 170 - Reloder® 33"

This is from the Alliant MSDS sheets.

[wiljen]

Not a whole lot new there as the Rhino powders (RP) were all in the original post, the interesting thing is that they have diversified and are using EI-Neisen for additonal powders.



If you download the Alliant MSDS sheets they reveal some interesting info, on the product name line there is the following for 10X, 15, 19, 22, 25

"Smokeless powder, RP 12 Reloder® 10X"

"Smokeless powder, RP 11 Reloder® 15"

"Smokeless powder, RP 14 Reloder® 19"

"Smokeless powder, RP 15 Reloder 22"

"Smokeless powder, RP 25 Reloder® 25"

For Reloder 17 it says-

"Smokeless powder, EI-Niesen 145 - Reloder® 17"

For Reloder 33-

"Smokeless powder, EI-Niesen 170 - Reloder® 33"

This is from the Alliant MSDS sheets.

[GrocMax]

Look at the RP number compared to the Alliant number.


Not a whole lot new there as the Rhino powders (RP) were all in the original post, the interesting thing is that they have diversified and are using EI-Neisen for additonal powders.

[Unclenick]

I know I'm reviving a zombie thread, but here are a few more I collected from MSDS sheets.


Powders from 2009 MSDS sheets (some newer MSDS sheets lack the powder name information due to
changes in MSDS requirement regulations).

Note that bulk grade versions have wider burn rate specs and can vary significantly from the
canister grades, which are controlled for burn rate by blending with held back fast or slow
lots, as needed to adjust them to within ±3% of their nominal burn rates.

Canister | Bulk Grade | Canister | Canister | Canister |
Grade | | Grade | Grade | Grade |
| St. Marks | | | |
Hodgdon | Mil & OEM | Winchester | Thales | IMR |
___________________|__Numbers___|_________________ _______|__(ADI)___|______________________|_
| | | | |
HP-38--------------|-- OBP231 --|- 231 ------------------|----------|----------------------|-
| OBP124 | AALite (WFL) | | |
Titewad | OBP132 | | | |
Tightgroup --------|-- OBP242 --|------------------------|----------|----------------------|-
| OBP465 | Super-Handicap (WSH) | | |
Longshot | OBP473 | | | |
Lil' Gun ----------|-- OBP516 --|------------------------|----------|----------------------|-
Hybrid 100V | SHP771 | | | |
| SMP224 | AutoComp | | |
-------------------|--- WAA90 --|- WST ------------------|----------|----------------------|-
H110 | WC296 | 296 | | |
HS-6 | WC540 | 540 | | |
-------------------|--- WC748 --|- 748 ------------------|----------|----------------------|-
H414 | WC760 | 760 | | |
H335 | WC844 | | | |
BL-C(2)------------|--- WC846 --|------------------------|----------|----------------------|-
H380 | WC852 | | | |
US869 | WC869 | | | |
-------------------|-- WMR780 --|- Supreme 780 ----------|----------|----------------------|-
| WXC170 | WSF | | |
Clays | | | AS30N | |
International Clays|------------|------------------------|- AS50N --|----------------------|-
Universal Clays | | | AP70N | |
H4227 | | | AR2205 |IMR 4227 second source|
H4198 -------------|------------|------------------------|- AR2207 -|----------------------|-
Benchmark | | | BM2 | |
H322 | | | AR2219 | |
-------------------|------------|------------------------|- AR2210 -|- IMR 8208 XBR -------|-
H4895 | | | AR2206H | |
Varget | | | AR2208 | |
H4350 -------------|------------|------------------------|- AR2209 -|----------------------|-
H4831 | | | AR2213 | |
H4831SC | | | AR2213SC | |
H1000 -------------|------------|------------------------|- AR2217 -|----------------------|-
Retumbo | | | AR2225 | |
H50BMG | | | AR2218 | |
-------------------|------------|------------------------|- AR2215 -|IMR 4198 second source|
| | | AS25BP |IMR Trail Boss |

[jmort]

No better person to see here than Uncle Nick. Thank you for the information.

[richj]

Wow. I found this thread looking for RP14. Just a note the earlier xref has the "RWS to norma" powders wrong.

RP11 = RL-15= Norma 201 (wrong)
RL-15 = Norma 203b (right)

I'm not sure about the rest. RP14 is on the MSDS for RL19

[dougader]

Ramshot X-terminator and AA2230 look to be identicle from the load data:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_1-23-14.pdf

RAMSHOT X-TERMINATOR30 BARNES VG 26.1 3,687 29.0 4,029 51,560 2.088

68 HDY HPBT-M 21.3 2,721 23.7 2,977 54,650 2.250

ACCURATE 2230
30 BARNES VG 26.1 3,687 29.0 4,029 51,560 2.088
68 HDY BTHP-M 21.3 2,721 23.7 2,977 54,650 2.250

[Norske]

The Hercules era "Keith load" for the 44 Magnum was 22gr 2400/245gr bullet. The load for Alliant's cleaner burning version of 2400 is 20gr powder with the same bullet.
My chronograph agrees.

[Mal Paso]

The Hercules era "Keith load" for the 44 Magnum was 22gr 2400/245gr bullet. The load for Alliant's cleaner burning version of 2400 is 20gr powder with the same bullet.
My chronograph agrees.

I have never heard of any changes to 2400. Larry Gibson did tests and came up with no difference between Hercules and Alliant 2400 other than lot to lot variation. He posted the results in this forum. But I have burned over 120 pounds of 2400 and 2 grains is within lot to lot variation if you include the batch that got a 250g Keith to over 1600 fps with 22g in a 6" 629. Shot 3 rounds to make sure it wasn't an error, brass was awfully sticky.:oops:

[clearwater]

Wow. I found this thread looking for RP14. Just a note the earlier xref has the "RWS to norma" powders wrong.

RP11 = RL-15= Norma 201 (wrong)
RL-15 = Norma 203b (right)

I'm not sure about the rest. RP14 is on the MSDS for RL19

I have seen some say the older Norma 203 (not b) is Reloder 15. Since I have a lb of it, any cross reference on norma 203?

[Paul5388]

It should be noted that plus or minus 5% does not permit a possible 10% error. The most error allowed is 5%.

I have not seen a lot of difference between most powder. That includes 2400 and IMR 4350. I shot some of the newer shorter cut and compared it to the old long cut DuPont variety, with a 10 Fps difference in the two.

The 2400 I have was purchased in 2004 and loads just like it always has. 15 gr in a .357 mag is very doable.

[trapper9260]

I know this is a old post on here,just wanted to post on here in case no one knows that the new SR4756 is Win 572 .that is from a video I watch some time back and that is right from Hodgdon them self that was to come out some time this year from what I understand.Unless someone else have something different on it.

[sargenv]

Interesting that 572 is the old SR4756.. SR4756 was a bulky powder and 572 is a nice compact ball powder.. so grain for grain, the 572 will pack into a much smaller space than the old SR 4756. It certainly is within the same burn speed.. useful for the sub gauges like 20 and 28.

[Pioneer2]

Re#19 - n204

[squidtamer]

Cobbled together from several sources. Best I can do for burn rate sorting.

Shooter's World == Explosia bulk #s (or Lovex)
-----------------------------------
Sparta 100 = DO13-01
SW Clean Shot = D032-03
SW Ultimate Pistol = D036-07
SW Auto Pistol = D036-03
SW Major Pistol = D037-01
SW Heavy Pistol = D037-02
Buffalo Rifle = D060
SBR SOCOM = D063-01
SW Blackout = D063-02?
SW AR Plus = D073-04
SW Tactical Rifle = D073-01 (D073-08)
?? == D073-05
SW Match Rifle = D073-06
SW Precision = S062
SW Long Rifle = S065
SW4350 = S070
?? = S071
D100 == D100


leftovers:
SW Cowboy = D060-01? I think this is now Buffalo Rifle.
?? -- BR2?
?? -- BR5?

edit: note that these are (mostly) the Explosia #s.
-fix bad SOCOM reference.

[Mal Paso]

Interesting that 572 is the old SR4756.. SR4756 was a bulky powder and 572 is a nice compact ball powder.. so grain for grain, the 572 will pack into a much smaller space than the old SR 4756. It certainly is within the same burn speed.. useful for the sub gauges like 20 and 28.

SR4756 was a single base powder phased out "because it was expensive to produce".

With ball powder the nitrocellulose is emulsified and nitroglycerin added for a double base powder.

Might be equivalent but not the same. Vh still has a lot of single base powders. I'm shooting N350 single base now.

A friend who worked with propellants years ago for general dynamics said single base took more skill to produce, you had to get it right.

Ball powders started as a way to modify and use up existing nitrocellulose stock not otherwise marketable.

[chris a]

Thank you can you tell methe closes powder to N133

[Fernando]

Check out H322

[Conditor22]

chris a, Welcome to Cast Boolits (Boolit = lead bullet :))

this chart should help.

https://i.imgur.com/Ni3gc46.png
OR
https://i.imgur.com/c0yQpkO.png

[Nam62]

Today I was looking at some new smokeless powder and could not find any Info. on the newer IMR and Hodgden powders. So I went looking on the internet for a new burn rate chart. Found this chart at LHS Germany web site, it has the newer powders. I tried to paste the chart but could not do it.
This company has a lot of reloading info. Take a look! https://www.lhs-germany.de/en/

Ihttps://www.lhs-germany.de/fileadmin/media/Mediathek/Pulver/Relative_Abbrenngeschwindigkeit_Export_Feb._2018.p df found this chart

[Conditor22]

for Nam62
https://i.imgur.com/0tTcB65.png

[Nam62]

Thanks for putting up the chart I tried several methods but had no Luck.

[John Boy]

https://www.lhs-germany.de/en/service/media-center/powder/burning-rate-chart/

[Rapier]

I will offer a suggestion, a procedure I follow, I use equivalent surplus powders to fire form brass and break in barrels, to save on burning my best powders and bullets. Say B is = to X, I use starting load for X less 2 grains for the start for B, plus a lighter, pulled bullet. Then work up as I go forward. With the current component market, having a cheaper alternative works well for me.

I am actually an old member returned after a long absence, bought a farm, built a barn, shop and new house, ponds, etc., so have been engaged in other things for my family.

[kfd518]

I know the original post in this thread states identical powders but unless I am dense there are some glaring discrepancies.
Rp15=RL22
RP15=N203b
N203b= RL15
MRP=rl22
Am I wrong or just dense?
The way I read it
RP11=N203b not RP15
Not trying to be difficult but the numbers seem not to match up when you read fully through the OP listing.

[Photog]

As Alliant American Select is not included in QuickLoad software, I found that Accurate Solo 1250 in quickload gives me the EXACT (+/- 10fps) velocity that AmSel gives me in real life (per my chronograph) and thats both pistols and carbines in 38spl. While its not the same powder, the results are the same.

[Jim22]

I find all this fascinating. I will copy the Op's list but I'll have to say all this notion of 'Same As' doesn't eliminate the need to start low and work up. I well remember a time - years ago - when I got a lot of 2400 that was way too hot. Loads I had been using before that were fine turned out to be too hot. There were sticking cases, flattened primers where there were none of those with an earlier lot of the same powder. Either the lot was off spec or the container was mis-labeled. I wrote to a prominent gun writer at the time about this. He wrote back saying it could happen but he didn't want to pursue it. This was about 40 years ago.

Jim

[poppy42]

Hp38 and win231 or the exact same powder, the come from the exact same vat. The only difference is the label on the jug and are 100% interchangeable. This is a quote from Hodgen as told to me buy a senior technician from Hodgdon.

[Bobaloo22]

Does anyone know if the Accurate TCM could be used safely for 9mm Luger 124 grn loads? Also what powder if any is it close to. Thanks

[Rockindaddy]

Wiljen: That is a nice cross reference chart you put up for some powders. I have been wondering about M1 30 caliber carbine powder. Bought 80 lbs of WW680 surplus ball powder a few years back for $3/ pound. I use 12.5 grs of it in my 22 Hornet. It produces dime size groups out of my Ruger No.1 Varmint rifle. It also works with 300 gr cast bullets @ 17.5grs in my 44 Mag. I will probably never use it up at this rate. The Speer Reloading book lists other applications for this WW680 propellant. But the McPhearson Metallic Cartridge book lists A1680 powder loads. Is WW680 and A1680 the same powder? Maybe there is a knowledgeable propellant expert somewhere that might know!

[MT Gianni]

I understand the 1680 and 680 have interchangeable start data but no idea if they are the same powder. I understand that Ramshot Silhuette is the same powder that was Winchester Action Pistol.

[hemmjo]

I am getting back into reloading after a near 50 year absence. Family and work got in the way. I used to load .221 Rem Fireball for my XP-100 bolt action pistol, and .22-250 for my rifle. Since I quit reloading, I got an 8mm Mauser from my grandpa. Now I am retired I have time to start again. I actually got a mold and have plans to start casting boolits for the Mauser. But, I don't have a place set up yet to do casting, so I bought a box already cast and lubed.

I have almost a full can of IMR3031, but it is 50 years old. Do you think it is safe to use? About a year ago I shot a groundhog with one of the cartridges I loaded 50 years ago, it worked fine. The ground hog sure did not notice any difference!!

I was also looking in my old 1970 edition of Handloaders Disest. I found that IMR 4198 had some loads for all 3 of my cartridges, so I got a pound of of that and some Trailboss.

My problem is, I have been reading, and find some places that say that Hodgdon H4198 is different than IMR4198. They go on to say that the "new" IMR4198 is different than the "old" IMR4198. Since my data is 54 years old, does it hold true for the new IMR4198 powder?

I looked at the Hodgdon web site and found this burn rate chart where #1 is the fastest and #176 is the slowest. IMR4198 is #79, H4198 is #80 so they have to be pretty close. The chart is here https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/2024-Smokeless-Relative-Burn-Rate-Chart-WEBSITE.pdf

The chart I have in my old book is for Maximum loads. If I back off 10% or maybe 15% am I safe to proceed. I do not want to back off too much and leave a bullet in the barrel, that is not good either.

I welcome your thoughts.