Citric acid brass cleaner

[Love Life]

Couple more ideas crop up:

Check for bad acid. The citric acid I had was the kind you buy from the grocery store to add to tomatoes when home canning. Is that the wrong stuff?

Use non-reactive container.
Use a bit of dawn.

I will admit the brass I tried this on was really dark. Perhaps I will try it again some time?

I don't know if one citric acid I better than the other. I started with lemishine and it works very well, but moved to pure, food grade citric acid because I could buy it by the pound cheaper.

I use plastic 50 gallon totes for bras washing.

Water temp is not an issue IME. However, I pre-dissolve the right amount of citric acid in a jug of warm water and add that to the cold hose water. If you add straight to the cold water the citric acid powder just sinks. Just like adding real sugar to cold tea. Speaking of tea, why does the west coast hate sweet tea?

Super dark, uber grungy range brass does not change much, but cleans faster in the tumbler. The majority of brass can benefit from a citric acid bath. Then there is the benefit of it being passivated for long term storage.

[mikeym1a]

I'd use an empty windshield washer fluid jug for storage. Those are usually thicker, heavier plastic than milk or water jugs. They're also great to use for walking around picking up brass, I cut out the top to open it up a little but leave the handle.

You might give an old clorox bottle a try. The plastics in that are much heavier.

[jonp]

You might give an old clorox bottle a try. The plastics in that are much heavier.

Used to use a plastic bottle like that for a minnow pail when fishing. A milk jug would work too, I think.

[ncbearman]

Lay out your brass on a towel, put a hair dryer at one end, fold over the towel to form a "tunnel", in 2 to 3 minutes your brass will be hot to the touch and dry inside and out.
btw you might want to get a hair dryer from Goodwill and not use your wifes :o

[dougader]

I just started to work up a load in my 338-06 and the 20 pieces of now-twice-fired cases were just a bit dirty. I stopped at the local health food store and bought a little 4 ounce bottle of citric acid. I boiled a quart of water on the stove and then dumped about 2/3's of it into a large mouth quart jar. I then spooned in 2 teaspoons of the citric acid and dissolved it into the hot water (stirred it a bit with a plastic spoon).

I dropped the cases into the solution and let it sit there for about 20 minutes. Sure is clean enough for me. I'm not sure I'll even bother with tumbling it.

I like the idea of the vinegar, salt and Dawn, etc, to clean really cruddy brass and then doing the hot citric acid bath to finish the process.

I'll admit, I am drawn to this in part because of the anti-corrosion qualities achieved through the passivation of the brass. It's very humid here except in the middle of summer and brass in my garage has been getting the dreaded corrosion if left for a few years.

I am here to tell you that the concerns of ammonia based polish like Brasso are real. When I first started reloading a guy told me to use Brasso mixed in with my tumbling media and I used it for years. A couple years ago I pulled out some low pressure "Cowboy" loads in 45 Colt and one of them had corroded clear through the case from the inside out. I didn't know there was a problem until I went to remove the brass from the cylinder. I had to pound that case out. FWIW, the load was a 250 grain rnfp bullet over 6.5 grains WW231, a real cream puff load when fired in a large frame Ruger Bisley revolver. But it made me think, "what if this load had been a heavy, "Ruger Only" load, i.e, 335 WLNGC over 23 grains H110?" Scary, right there.

[meshugunner]

Yeah, I had read that nitrogen (ammonia) is not good for brass. Good to hear real confirmation since there are a lot of myths propogated on the net. Citric acid has the chemists' blessing.

I'm going to switch to citric acid instead of tumbling for a while. I found out I can dry them out pretty quick if I put them in a wire mesh colander in front of a small electric space heater. Takes about an hour. Drying time had been the main drawback for me till now. I would like to have them nice and shiny but sometimes I shoot so much that it's a real chore.

[jonp]

I don't remember if I posted this on here or not but if you run by an old food dehydrator in a garage sale buy it. It makes the perfect overnight dryer of brass. Perforated shelves and a hole in the top to let the moisture out. I got one for $5 and it does work great for smaller batches. For larger ones I put it in the oven at 170 degrees with the door propped open with a wooden spoon to let the moisture out for about 20min. Not sure if you need to prop open the door but I do it anyways.

[Doc Highwall]

After I take my brass out of the citric acid I rinse it in soapy water followed with clean water, then I dump it into my tumbler which removes the last of the loose material and dries it at the same time.

I tumble it for only 10 – 20 minuets max as that is all that is needed, and after I separate the brass from the tumbling media I leave the cover off the tumbler to let the water evaporate.

(Caution! do not do this at home, the cat might think it is their new litter box) Just keep the cat away.

[Lizard333]

I don't remember if I posted this on here or not but if you run by an old food dehydrator in a garage sale buy it. It makes the perfect overnight dryer of brass. Perforated shelves and a hole in the top to let the moisture out. I got one for $5 and it does work great for smaller batches. For larger ones I put it in the oven at 170 degrees with the door propped open with a wooden spoon to let the moisture out for about 20min. Not sure if you need to prop open the door but I do it anyways.

I just started using the food dehydrator myself instead of the oven. It's forced heated air onto the brass and here where the humidity is low, I can dry a batch of brass in about 15 minutes. My wife suggested this, believe it or not. She's a smart cookie every now and then :)

[jonp]

I just started using the food dehydrator myself instead of the oven. It's forced heated air onto the brass and here where the humidity is low, I can dry a batch of brass in about 15 minutes. My wife suggested this, believe it or not. She's a smart cookie every now and then :)
Go Lumberjacks!
NAU Class of 1992

[cat223]

I didn't look at all 511 posts, so this could be repetitive. I am seeing 100% pure citric acid on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Foods-Citric-Acid-Powder-Pound/dp/B0017WFX6G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364774952&sr=8-2&keywords=now+foods+citric+acid). Five lb container for $18.75-$28.27 and a one lb container for $7.63-$12.48. My wife found this because she was looking for homemade cheese making supplies. We even found a recipe using citric acid to make homemade dishwasher detergent. Has anyone verified whether this stuff cures cancer?

[Bullshop]

Also check hunting supply. It is used to retard spoilage on big game. Keeps bacteria from growing.
We get it by the 5 lb bag.

[jonp]

I didn't look at all 511 posts, so this could be repetitive. I am seeing 100% pure citric acid on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Foods-Citric-Acid-Powder-Pound/dp/B0017WFX6G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364774952&sr=8-2&keywords=now+foods+citric+acid). Five lb container for $18.75-$28.27 and a one lb container for $7.63-$12.48. My wife found this because she was looking for homemade cheese making supplies. We even found a recipe using citric acid to make homemade dishwasher detergent. Has anyone verified whether this stuff cures cancer?
citric acid curing cancer? You might want to try Coast To Coast AM and see if it is up there for natural healing......

[cat223]

citric acid curing cancer? You might want to try Coast To Coast AM and see if it is up there for natural healing......

Hey, Coast TO Coast is great entertainment on those long mid-night shift nights. I've learned soooo much about alien abduction, black helicopters, out of body experiences, ESP...Oh, the list goes on.

[meshugunner]

I didn't look at all 511 posts, so this could be repetitive. I am seeing 100% pure citric acid on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Foods-Citric-Acid-Powder-Pound/dp/B0017WFX6G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364774952&sr=8-2&keywords=now+foods+citric+acid). Five lb container for $18.75-$28.27 and a one lb container for $7.63-$12.48. My wife found this because she was looking for homemade cheese making supplies. We even found a recipe using citric acid to make homemade dishwasher detergent. Has anyone verified whether this stuff cures cancer?

I got the 5lb bag from Amazon. I use it to make gummi worms, soft drinks and cheesecake. I also use it as a cleaner for some things. Of course it won't cure cancerl lol! But it will cure baldness and smooth out wrinkles.

[ThorfromFresno]

Just found this thread over the wekend. Bought Citric acid in Walmarts canning section, and tried it in my ultrasonic cleaner. Wow! works well at 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. Set clener for 5 minutes and walla, cases cleaner than 2 hours in vibratory cleaaner with walnut shells. Thanks for the great info.
Thor from Fresno

[ACrowe25]

^^ Make sure you rinse well Thor. I agree though, does wonders.

[dougader]

I got the 5lb bag from Amazon. I use it to make gummi worms, soft drinks and cheesecake. I also use it as a cleaner for some things. Of course it won't cure cancerl lol! But it will cure baldness and smooth out wrinkles.

How/what/why in the use of citric acid in cheesecake? Please tell me the purpose. I love a good cheesecake.

[62chevy]

I didn't look at all 511 posts, so this could be repetitive. I am seeing 100% pure citric acid on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Foods-Citric-Acid-Powder-Pound/dp/B0017WFX6G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364774952&sr=8-2&keywords=now+foods+citric+acid). Five lb container for $18.75-$28.27 and a one lb container for $7.63-$12.48. My wife found this because she was looking for homemade cheese making supplies. We even found a recipe using citric acid to make homemade dishwasher detergent. Has anyone verified whether this stuff cures cancer?


ebay has twice the amount for less money. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=citric+acid Got mine at Walmart in the canning section with a Ball label. It's a small bottle but should last me a long time.

[meshugunner]

How/what/why in the use of citric acid in cheesecake? Please tell me the purpose. I love a good cheesecake.

Citric acid can be used instead of lemon or lime juice to give cheescake a tangy flavor. The combination of creamy sweet with a tangy aftertaste is particularly delicious. Lime & lemon have a bitter component to their flavors which limits the amount of juice one can add.

I've also used powdered Koolaid for this but I can't eat sugar.

Disclaimer: Consuming cheesecake is an inherently risky process. If you can't fit into your pants anymore, don't say I didn't tell you so.

[dougader]

I use lemon zest instead of lemon or lime juice in my cheesecake. I make a NY Style cheesecake (cooking-wise, IIRC NY Cheesecake doesn't usually incorporate the lemon) and a no sugar added blend of artificial sweeteners. I also make an almond meal crust as I have a nasty reaction to gluten and wheat.

This Blueberry topped cheesecake won the coveted (ahem, right...) Golden Spatula Award at the office.

http://steelheader.smugmug.com/photos/i-WST99Fg/0/L/i-WST99Fg-L.jpg

[jonp]

Glad I stumbled onto The Better Homes and Garden page. ;)

[meshugunner]

beautiful...mmmm.....cheeeeeesecake....mmmm....

[Love Life]

IME pure citric acid or lemisshine both equally well. Warm or hot water is not really needed. I use cold hose water and a 30 gallon tote to wash my brass first. Cuts tumbling time in half and gives shinier brass.

Pure citric acid and lemishine bothe work equally well in SS tumblers.

[Whizzer]

I use lemon zest instead of lemon or lime juice in my cheesecake. I make a NY Style cheesecake (cooking-wise, IIRC NY Cheesecake doesn't usually incorporate the lemon) and a no sugar added blend of artificial sweeteners. I also make an almond meal crust as I have a nasty reaction to gluten and wheat.

This Blueberry topped cheesecake won the coveted (ahem, right...) Golden Spatula Award at the office.

http://steelheader.smugmug.com/photos/i-WST99Fg/0/L/i-WST99Fg-L.jpg

That's just wrong, right there.

[badbob454]

got mine here wow what a great price and i put brown brass that wouldnt tumble clean turned from brown to pink and brass in minutes a good price why didnt i try this before ..?
http://www.amazon.com/Spicy-World-Citric-Acid-5-Pound/dp/B000OZFECU/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A1CYP7JMGPN5MJ

[Ozarki]

Found lemi-shine at the grocery store today. Will get on this next time in the shop.
Thanks for all the information
Wes

[dougader]

I ordered a universal decap die from Midway and it came yesterday afternoon. I have to get to the shop and decap (without case sizing) some more '06 cases to throw in the citric acid bath.

I may never use the case tumbler again...

[mikemc]

I soak them in citric acid bath over night then tumble them for a few hours and they come out looking better then new!

[.429]

68375 i hope these 2 pics were uploaded properly. anyhow, can u guess which pile was tumbled for and hour and which 1 got a citric acid bath for an hour?

[.429]

68377

[w0fms]

You know, I think that the experiment I did with White Vinegar and Salt turned out slightly better than the Citric Acid. Both work though.. Really well.. another great tip from this board...

[.429]

i was not impressed with the citric acid. ima stick with tumbling. always fun to try something new tho

[prs]

First, the cheese cake pics are WAY OUT OF ORDER. Here it is, almost lunch time and I'm hungrier than a b itch wolf with pups; that just is not fair!

I may have posted this already, but I do not decap before using citric acid and the pockets are still clean. I do tumble them in the citric acid for several hours (Thumlers Tumbler).

Again, that cheese cake really has me on edge!

prs

[badbob454]

i have tried the citric ACID bath and then tumble works EXELLENT almost as good as a stainless steel tumbler , at least on the outside , the inside is clean but not near as nice as a stainless media, i shake out the water /acid mixture then throw it in damp , seems to dry fast and cleans much better ...

[BoolitChaser]

I add about a half teaspoon of pure orange oil to my lizard bedding (crushed walnut shells) case cleaner media. Strong enough to cut the lube off cases and makes them bright and shiny. Smells up the room good too.

Is that a rubber barrel vibrating tumbler, plastic barrel vibrating or a rotating tumbler? I have found that some liquid cleaners and some chemicals when added to a rubber barrel vibrating tumbler, the barrel get destroyed. Destroyed as in goes limp and becomes useless.

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”

[quail1]

I used the citric acid today for the first time. On old .222 brass that I have been tumbling and storing for more than 20 years. Some of it was dog brown. After 20 minutes even those were looking great. A hour in direct sun dried them out, I tumbled for a few hours and they look new. Now I was easily able to spot a few cracked necks on some of the old military resized .223 casings.
A great tip!

[MrWolf]

I tried using a citric bath in my sonic cleaner @ 140 degrees. First batch was at 30 minutes, Had a lot of pink brass and did not a huge difference than batches tried without the sonic and with hot water. I cut the time for the next batch down to 5 minutes. A lot less pink brass and good results. The pieces that are turning pink were so bad they looked darker than steel that I got out of sand at the range. Happy with the citrus and use it as a prep bath for my regular sonic solution. Two baths are probably overkill but it works for me. A few batches of 223 will fit in my food dehydrator and are dry in about 2 or so hours @ 100 degrees. Pistol cartridges take less drying time.

[BoolitChaser]

Citric Acid is also sold in powder form on eBay. Check several sellers, the prices vary widely. Easy to find 1 pound and 5 pound lots. Some sellers go all the way up to 25 pounds.

[243winxb]

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric&affiliate_pro_tracking_id=17:36: Bought mine here. 10lbs for $27. Other lesser amounts available. Free Shipping. Just measure 7 fluid ounces of the powder out (1 cup minus two level tablespoons), and add that to a gallon of water. http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8945554&postcount=31 My brass, after cleaning has pink patches & dark streaks on some. 1qt water to 1 tablespoon citric acid. Not sure i like it. May go back to using "ReaLemon"

[g2065g]

The 10lbs is $1.10/lb cheaper than the 5lb. The bulk price reduction is much less from that jump. Worth it to get the 10 if you were gonna get 5 anyways.

[Maj Dad]

Ordered 10 lb from DudaDiesel & going to clean a ton of brass - love new ways to do things!

But Love Life, she must be one helluva woman! :lol:

I use plastic 50 gallon totes for bras washing.

[areslagae]

Hi all,

I'd like to give the citric acid a try for cleaning brass. However, I am not sure about the concentration of the solution.

* The store where I bought it recommended 25 - 50 g / l, which amounts to a 2.5% - 5% solution. However, this was for "general purposes" (I assume descaling).

* Here I seem to remember to have read 2 teaspoons / quart (but I cannot seem to find it anymore in this long thread), which amounts to a 1% solution. (I am from Europe, which is why I am using g, l and % rather than tsp's and quarts :-))

* Hornady's One Shot Sonic Clean Case Formula seems to be citric acid (see URL below for MSMS). The MSDS states this is a 15% solution. The solution should be diluted 40:1. Assuming the concentration in the MSDS is for the undiluted solution, this amounts to 0.375% solution, which does not seem to be correct.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/msds/OneShot_Sonic_Clean_Case_Formula.pdf

* I found an interesting data sheet (see URL below) about citric acid passivation of stainless steel, where a 4% - 10% solution is used. This is about stainless steel and not about brass however.
http://27.111.87.182/~australw/citric-acid-passivation/

So, what is a good concentration to get started?

Is it recommended to add detergent, similar to the commonly used vinegar/salt/detergent solution? And if so, how much?

Does anyone have more insight into the One Shot Sonic Clean Case Formula? Are there other ingredients?

Thanks,

[Sasquatch-1]

Hi all,

I'd like to give the citric acid a try for cleaning brass. However, I am not sure about the concentration of the solution.

Thanks,

I throw a couple of table spoons into about 2 quarts of water in an old crock pot. Cook the brass for about 2 hrs., dry and tumble. This will take the black spots left by the torch (from annealing brass for swaging) off the brass. It has also cleaned some of the dirtiest range brass I have found.

[whisler]

1 tablespoon (level) of powdered citric acid weighs 15 grams, so 10 grams per liter is close enough.

[William Yanda]

Hey, Coast TO Coast is great entertainment on those long mid-night shift nights. I've learned soooo much about alien abduction, black helicopters, out of body experiences, ESP...Oh, the list goes on.

Not to mention that long range mind reading thing.

[jonp]

Ive been using about 1TBL per Quart of boiling water with a shot of
of dawn and letting the brass soak a little while stirring occasionaly with good results. I buy my citric acid at walmart in the food canning section and its Ball Brand. I dont pay attention to the strength.

[Newtire]

[QUOTE=sagacious;890503] You can find citric acid sold inexpensively at health-food stores, and some drug stores, farm-supply stores, etc.

Another source is a winemaker supply shop. They have one over in Nampa, Idaho (10 miles from here) that sells it for just shy of $5.00 a pound. Will save me on shipping charges. I'll go pick it up next week. 5-pounds ought to last awhile.

[OnceFired]

Awesome thread here. I am about to try out citric acid. Wish I had my canning supplies with me - but those are in storage while we wait to bring the rest of my stuff up from Texas here to Missouri. :)

But, my inlaws found an ancient Koolaid packet in their kitchen, and I snagged it. I boiled about a quart of water, and dissolved it. I'll add that to about 3 gallons of water, throw in some brass and see what happens. I'm working on my oldest lot of 5.56 (LC98) as well as some 9mm.

Here's my question - I'm using a cement mixer to tumble my brass. It's steel. I plan on having it Rhino-lined in the very near future anyway, but I wanted to ask what the citric acid might do to that. Won't matter on this round, and I won't be using the citric again until after I get the mixer lined. This is my test case to see if I *really* need SS media, or if the brass + citric is enough by itself.

I intend on tumbling this load during the bath of citric acid solution, as the 5.56 is grungy and will need it. Next item is to properly dry these things.

I can't use hair dryers or dehydrators - too small, and time consuming with the volume of brass I have.

LoveLife - what did you use for your drying racks? The hardware cloth I see at home improvement stores all oxidizes, and puts the dreaded green crud on the brass even just while drying throughout the day. I thought about putting Rhino liner on that, too. Thoughts?

EDIT - caught myself before I did this. Apparently the steel + brass + citric ain't bueno. Gonna do this in a bucket by hand the first time.

[Love Life]

For the drying racks I covered them with that grippy stuff you put in cabinets to keep plates from moving around. Took care of the oxidation real quick like.

For the citric acid cleaning. Get a big tote, Fill it with hose water, add a mess load (about 10 heaping TBS) of citric acid, add some dawn. Now get you a 5 gallon bucket and drill it full of holes. Fill bucket with brass and dink into citric acid concoction filled tote. Spin it to agitate it for about 15 seconds and then let sit for 5 minutes in the concoction. Remove and allow water to drain from bucket back into tote. Dump brass onto toarp or drying rack. Repeat the process with more brass. I would do 250 lbs of brass before changing the solution out.

The next day I would collect the brass and run it through a cement mixer filled with 40 lbs of corn cob and treated with Nu-Finish and Mineral spirits. It cut the tumbling time down in half. Two hours of tumbling gave 2,000+ pieces of 308 brass a very nice shine. Well, except for the super dirty stuff.

I have since switched to cleaning my brass with a SS tumbler set up. Cleaner, easier, and you get 100% sellable brass.

[Nickle]

1 packet of Kool Aid to 3+ quarts of water is going to be pretty weak.

I use 2 packets to maybe a quart or two of water. It is reusable, until the mix starts looking real green. When it's like that, it still cleans, just not so well.

[OnceFired]

1 packet of Kool Aid to 3+ quarts of water is going to be pretty weak.

I use 2 packets to maybe a quart or two of water. It is reusable, until the mix starts looking real green. When it's like that, it still cleans, just not so well.

Yup, that is exactly what I learned. Saw the nasty brass begin to lighten fast, but it just stopped after a while. Went to Walmart across the street and got a small jar of Ball citric acid from canning aisle. Worked great on 90% of the brass with one treatment.

Had to hit a chunk of it 2x at strong concentrations to clean up the grody ones.

After 2 rounds of rinsing, I will now dry them all in the oven.

Will post pics shortly.

OnceFired

[Love Life]

Make sure your oven is on low.

[Sasquatch-1]

Worked great on 90% of the brass with one treatment.

Had to hit a chunk of it 2x at strong concentrations to clean up the grody ones.

OnceFired

I don't clean brass on nearly the scale you do if you are using a cement mixer. I do find that after annealing brass for swaging I will have a nasty black spot from the torch. I use a crockpot to heat the solution and cook the brass for about 2 hours. Dry and tumble over night (vibratory tumbler and lizard litter) with a little Iosso case bright in the tumbler and the brass normally comes out looking like the day it was first loaded. So, you may want to try heating your solution for those stubborn stains.

[OnceFired]

Ok here are pics as promised.

This is the brass I had set aside as quite tarnished. Some was tarnished all the way around, others in big streaks down one side, etc. It appeared to be mostly LC98 from the ones I could read. Understand this is what they looked like AFTER about 5x the amount of tumbling in crushed walnut as any of my other brass.

NOTE: all images have hi resolution versions on Flickr. More detail is there. If you look at the hi-rez for this one, you can see the detail of the dust on there, but the cases themselves are nice & smooth and have the layer of tarnish on them that makes them look slick/slippery.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3691/9370023265_70464121c8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9370023265/)
2013-07-25 12.32.38 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9370023265/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

To compare how dark those are, have a look at the rejects pile I had racked up by sorting my brass by hand. These have bent mouths, dings, tears, etc but in general were far less tarnished. These were the only semi-dirty brass I had left to compare to.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7459/9355496676_ebfa46e820_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9355496676/)
2013-07-23 15.32.05 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9355496676/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

I had boiled a pint of water & put in one Koolaid packet. I added that to roughly 2.5-3 gallons of scalding water in the orange bucket from the tap. I did have to drive over to the storage place (5min away) before I could use this, just for reference of temperature. It was still too hot to touch with my bare hand on the glass jar of Koolaid. Then I added some brass and checked the results on that handful. Seeing immediate results, I dumped in all the tarnished brass. It overwhelmed the citric acid as one could expect, so I went and bought more acid at the store right across the street.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9372796340_2570bf4d9a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372796340/)
2013-07-25 12.33.01 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372796340/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

Same shot, with flash this time maybe 30 seconds later if that long.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5542/9372798298_1489cbfd0a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372798298/)
2013-07-25 12.32.50 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372798298/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

Koolaid dose has been thoroughly outmatched.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2882/9372792656_b299f2628b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372792656/)
2013-07-25 14.29.39 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372792656/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

Here is the bucket after a liberal dose of citric acid + 10 minutes tops. Didn't have my measuring spoons, so I have no idea. I used a lot because I was hitting at least 1,000-1,500 truly nasty tarnished pieces. I used my hands to agitate the brass.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5448/9372794324_faaabbefb6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372794324/)
2013-07-25 14.29.24 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372794324/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

I strained the brass through my mesh screen, and rinsed the bucket & brass 2x more. This is what they looked like.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3778/9372791042_ab2c01814a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372791042/)
2013-07-25 14.58.04 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9372791042/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

On the first pass, 90% of the tarnished brass was good to go to the next cleaning step (drying & tumbling.) But some of the rest had interesting patterns - like black tiger stripes, or black squiggles, or black cheetah splotches. Hitting them 2x more and letting them sit longer solved that issue.

I then dumped as much water out of each case as I could, then put them in the oven on low which worked nicely.

Now I have brass with lots of pink patches that should polish up nicely. I'll post a pic of that once I have them done. Oh, and now I can tell after cleaning all these up that they were mostly LC95, not LC98. Interestingly, even the LC04 and LC08 had a few in there that had also been jet black with tarnish.

[62chevy]

Don't reload as much as most of you but have found that hotter is better. Ran the citric acid though an old coffee pot poured over the brass and added a dash of Dawn dish soap. After about an hour the out sides were clean and bright but the insides needed more time. Did about 400 pieces this way and even with only about an hour of soaking most primer pockets were found clean when sizing and de-capping. Next time I will leave them in overnight to see if the insides come clean if not a Scotch Bright should take care of that. Preheat the oven to 200 turn it off put the brass in and in a half hour they are dry as a bone.

[OnceFired]

And here is a pic of the funky brass tarnish patterns, after citric acid treatment.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2845/9389774198_95129491a9_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9389774198/)
2013-07-27 20.56.39 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/9389774198/) by OnceFiredLakeCityBrass (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

Not sure what the lined pattern is coming from. The cheetah style splotches are kind of random, but the ones that baffle me are the zig-zag lines. I don't have one here like that because I forgot to grab it before I finished the last round of double tough tarnish lot. But I have absolutely no idea what might cause tarnish to pattern like that.

OnceFired

[Love Life]

The pattern is coming from your drying racks. Specifically that mesh you have the brass sitting on in the picture.

Put some of the grippy stuff that goes in cabinet bottoms to keep dishes from moving over the mesh and you'll have no more issues with that. It also allows air to circulate around the brass.

[OnceFired]

So here's a question. If my cement mixer bowl is steel, with ostensibly steel bolts securing the inside bottom of the bowl & the two agitation blades - will rhino-lining the entire interior & bolts be safe to use with the citric acid?

I like the results I see from the acid overall. And, it doesn't seem that over-use of the citric acid solution is possible - the brass won't over-clean. As long as the acid cannot react with the steel due to the lining, it seems like it would be fine to use the mixer as the solution & tumbling simultaneously - with the brass serving as its own media.

I doubt I'd use quite as hot of water with the lining, but that temp decrease would be countered by having the longer exposure to lower heat level + the agitation should help remove more too. I know that just wiping the tarnish off the brass is possible once it's in the solution.

Thoughts?

[Love Life]

I would NOT rino line as the brass will eat that stuff away over time and you'll end up with rino lining in your brass...

It is the galvanized mesh giving you zebra striped brass. Hit it with the citric acid again and run it through the cement mixer.

Citric acid wash it separately, and then dry tumble.

[OnceFired]

Hmmm. Maybe there's an alternate material vs rhino lining? It seems that something could be used here.

Right now, as it is the interior of the mixer is beginning to lose its paint. Keep in mind most of the tumbling I have done is walnut, and I have a lot more media than brass.

Is there not a method to get everything done in bulk in one place with one tumbler/mixer?

[WallyM3]

"Maybe there's an alternate material vs rhino lining? It seems that something could be used here."

Teflon. But I don't know where you'd get it done.

[Love Life]

I use a large SS tumbling set up and then tumble the brass in Corn cob treated with NU-Finish to preserve the shine.

[OnceFired]

I am thinking the SS isn't actually necessary as media, and the weight of the brass + the citric would actually be plenty to get nice shiny brass. Since I am not de-priming because I want to leave the crimp in place to prove once fired status, I am not worried about the flash hole much anyway. And the citric gets inside the case nicely.

Right now, I am torn between SS and the citric acid route + walnut/corn after. They probably work out to the same amount of money. The initial cost of SS counteracts with the media requirement for citric & walnut/corn. The citric + walnut/corn is cheaper up front, and has ongoing costs on an extremely low level since it is really only citric that would be worn out with any frequency. So, I am thinking purely on time savings at this point. If I can eliminate walnut/corn step, that's even better.

If I can get everything to happen in a single hopper for the citric solution tumbling with just brass no other media, then add air rack drying, that is probably best results & best time for large volume. Because as my volume grows, I will need more & more SS media, whereas citric is dirt cheap by comparison.

That's why I have been focused on trying to test the citric in the mixer. Agitation, brass, and citric seem like a great combination.

OnceFired

[Sasquatch-1]

Hmmm. Maybe there's an alternate material vs rhino lining? It seems that something could be used here.

Right now, as it is the interior of the mixer is beginning to lose its paint. Keep in mind most of the tumbling I have done is walnut, and I have a lot more media than brass.

I don't know if this will work but if you have a five gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid, why not try putting every thing in it and then putting that in the mixer. If it works go by a construction sight where they are dry walling and get a bunch more buckets. You may be able to do 2 or 3 at a time. Here again this is pure speculation on my part.

[milkman]

Oncefired
I don't know if it fits your application but here is a cement mixer with a plastic drum. Nothing to react with acid.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_616_616
Milkman

[Newtire]

I've seen the results using the SS pins and it's amazing. However, the guy I have seen use these is starting to see a bit of deterioration of the rubber liner on the inside of the new drum he just bought. Anyone else experiencing that?

I have recently puchased an ultrasonic cleaner, so have been playing with that.

I first used a citric acid and Dawn in hot water treatment, rolling the cases around in a plastic jar for 5-minutes. Next, I rinse them off with hot tap water. Then, I put more of this same (clean batch of solution) solution into the ultrasonic cleaner and run the cases for 2-10 minute cycles on high setting. The primer pockets are totally clean but if I put a q-tip inside the case, it comes out dirty. I can feel the roughness of the crud still in the case before I start the ultrasonic cleaner but it gets real smooth inside after the ultrasonic so I figure it knocks off the stuck on crud.

The SS pin treatment gets all this stuff out it appears. Maybe I just need to rinse a couple more times.

This is all in the interest of "science" really as I used to just tumble in media, load and shoot! Getting picky in my older years.

I'm going to put this last batch back in the walnut shell media and vibrate it for a few hours. Interesting thread.

[OnceFired]

Yeah, I have seen the plastic drum mixers. Unfortunately they are usually about 2x the cost of the steel ones. And, they would still need to have bolts & other things replaced - any steel that touches the interior of the mixer is a source of problems for the citric acid.

Even the hardware cloth I used to strain the brass from the citric solution is a problem, so I need to rethink that a bit. I went back and re-watched the Jerry Miculek videos on YouTube I was referred to by other reloaders, and this time I realized that ...

1) He tumbles without media (just water + brass + soap) for 1st round.
2) Strains & dries on hardware cloth uses window screen on top of the hardware cloth on his strainer/drying table.
3) He did not mention citric acid anywhere.
4) He uses corn cob later.

I left a comment on his YouTube video about it. Maybe we'll hear back from him. :)

OnceFired

[Love Life]

any steel that touches the interior of the mixer is a source of problems for the citric acid.

Wrong

Even the hardware cloth I used to strain the brass from the citric solution is a problem, so I need to rethink that a bit.

The galvanized hardware cloth will do that. As I have been saying, put this over it:http://www.mscdirect.com/product/97491153?src=pla&008=-99&007=Search&pcrid=24478983664&006=24478983664&005=52356187504&004=7278555184&002=2167139&mkwid=soYUAKDYW%7Cdc&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_soYUAKDYW_PLA__24478983664_c_S&026=nv&025=c

1) He tumbles without media (just water + brass + soap) for 1st round.
2) Strains & dries on hardware cloth uses window screen on top of the hardware cloth on his strainer/drying table.
3) He did not mention citric acid anywhere.
4) He uses corn cob later.

I left a comment on his YouTube video about it. Maybe we'll hear back from him. :)

OnceFired

That should cover it.

[243winxb]

My brass, after cleaning, has pink patches & dark streaks on some. 1qt water to 1 tablespoon citric acid as posted above. Not sure i like it. May go back to using "ReaLemon"

[Reloader06]

243

1. Cut back to 1/2-1/4 teaspoon.
2. If that doesn't work, cut back on the tumbling time.

If you are just soaking, you need to agitate the vessel regularly. Watch CSPAN, that will either agitate you or put you to sleep.[smilie=b:

Matt:p

[243winxb]

Looks like i need to use more? 1 quart water to 4 tablespoons. Hope my math is correct? Post # 31 here > http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=708100&page=2&highlight=unclenick
A formula:

Basically, a gallon of water at room temperature weighs 8.343 lbs, or about 133.5 ounces. But wait! Isn't a gallon 128 ounces? It is 128 fluid ounces by volume, but a fluid ounce is the volume of one ounce of boiling hot water, at which temperature water is less dense than at room temperature. As a result of the density difference, a fluid ounce volume of room temperature water will weigh 1.043 ounces on a scale; and those are the ounces that matter.

Divide 133.5 ounces by 19 to get the amount of anhydrous citric acid you will need to dissolve in a gallon of water to make the combined solution 5% citric acid by weight. That works out to 7.028 ounces. 7 ounces is more than close enough.

So, what is the volume of 7 ounces of anhydrous citric acid? Per what I said earlier, this will vary. All I can do is report the weight of anhydrous citric acid powder I have, as I scoop it and level it from the 10 lb box I bought. A half cup (4 fluid ounces) of the powder weighed 3.83 ounces. The bag is mostly powder with lumps that are not very hard to break up, so it has a bit of moisture in it. I am not set up to do a titration to determine exactly how much moisture, so that just has to be part of the normal error. It would take 7.31 fluid ounces of my powder to get 7.00 ounces by weight. Given the non-critical nature of the mix, if I didn't use a scale and was forced to use volumetric measures, I would just measure 7 fluid ounces of the powder out (1 cup minus two level tablespoons), and add that to a gallon of water.
Edit/Add- The 4 tablespoon & soaking for 4hrs with 2 minutes shake time at start & finish resulted in clean brass, inside and out.

[62chevy]

243winxb I just added 8 heaping teaspoons to a gallon of hot tap water, shook, poured into a old coffee maker to heat even more. Placed my brass in a plastic coffee can then filled to about an inch over the brass. Shook the container several time like it was in a tumbler and let set till cool. The out side of the brass came clean the inside not so much. Don't have a tumbler so used a scotch bright pad cut to fit and cleaned the inside. I need a tumbler but space and money are limited.

[Riqrob]

Lamishine in your grocery dishwasher soap section is a made of citric acid, as is lemon juice. If you soak brass prior to annealing, the bare brass colors up so you can see what the heat is doing - look for the blue and dunk.
Rick

[Newtire]

The out side of the brass came clean the inside not so much. Don't have a tumbler so used a scotch bright pad cut to fit and cleaned the inside.
I put mine into an ultrasonic cleaner using the same citric acid cleaner and the stuff on the inside loosened up but still showed up on a q-tip when I stuck it inside the case. A final run thru the walnut shells in my Midway vibrating bowl cleaner with Petco lizard bedding walnut shells cleans up the rest of the way to where no more soot comes out on the q-tip when I swab it around inside.

[sd61]

Citric acid (Lemishine, etc) is obviously an acid...Dawn is an alkaline solution. I keep seeing recipes where both are in the mix, don't they neutralize each other? Citric acid will help clean the tarnish and dawn will clean grime and soot, but you need to do it in two steps....Am I missing something?

[WallyM3]

I use a very small amount of Dawn to break the "surface tension" of the water, not enough to be a chemical factor in the CA bath. Anything remaining gets clobbered in the tumbler.

[mold maker]

I used a HF cement (steel) mixer for over a year, with citric acid. Nobody told me not to, and I saw no problems. I rinsed the brass still in the mixer with a hose, and when I dumped it, on 1/4" hardware cloth where it drained with agitation. It dried on an expanded (painted steel) mesh table in the sun. If I wanted more shine, it was tumbled in cob with Nufinish. I've got some stored in closed five gal buckets, that are still as new, after 3 years.
Hot water is the key to citric acid cleaning.

[golfr]

If you do any fruit canning, or freezing, I believe "Fruit Fresh" is mostly citric acid. Keeps peaches from turning brown during processing.

Never thought of using it on brass though...... That's why I come here!!!

Tom
left about five cases in pants pocket that went thru laundry. came
out looking like new...tried about fifty in a sock then in pocket...same results...short time...who'd a thunk it

[62chevy]

left about five cases in pants pocket that went thru laundry. came
out looking like new...tried about fifty in a sock then in pocket...same results...short time...who'd a thunk it

There is a German guy on Youtube that does just that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF5B6DkxXH8 he calls it the most dangerous way to clean brass. LOL!

[Anonym]

My Lyman tumbler has a small bowl with a clear plastic lid. I've had excellent results using hot water and citric acid, and even just lemon juice, and tumbling for 15 minutes or so. Brass comes out bright and clean!

[JRR]

I use diet 7'nUp and a bit of laundry detergent. The 7 up's first ingredient is carbonated water and the 2nd is citric acid. Make sure it is "diet" so you get no sugar residue.
Jeff

[OnceFired]

You must go through a bunch of 2L bottles. ;)

[flintlock62]

I was going to mention kool-aid, but you beat me to it! When I was a mess cook in the Navy, I had to clean the deep fat fryers. We used kool-aid, and the surfaces came out very shiny.



Good old koolaid (or any of the cheap varieties) work well too, not as fast as shown on the 50 bmg shell but works good overnight. I get it for .10 a pack, but I may have to look for citric acid now.

[243winxb]

Ethanol effect on cartridge brass. The ethanol in the mix is so diluted that i have to guess it will do no harm to cartridge brass?? Do i need to worry about this?? Photo is from gov. testing of different grades of gas containing ethanol.
The test fluids selected for this investigation were Fuel C, CE10a, CE17a, and CE25a. Fuel C was
selected as the control since it is representative of premium gasoline and is a standard test fluid widely
used for studying material compatibility to gasoline. CE10a represents an aggressive formulation of E10,
and as such, it can be viewed as a baseline test fuel since E10 is currently available in many, if not most,
fuel dispensers. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/FirearmsReloading102/ethanolampcartridgebrass.jpg Dawn dish detergent contains as much as 7% Ethanol. Ethanol can cause stress crossion cracking.

[whisler]

If your estimate of ethanol content in Dawn is correct, calculate the % alcohol in a cleaning mix of a few drops of Dawn in several quarts of water and see what you get. Not enough Ethanol to worry about. Also check temperature and length of exposure in that test (28 days @ 60 deg. C) I sure don't soak my brass for 4 weeks.

[1bilmr59]

Sounds Good i might have to try one of the mixes thanks for the posts

[FloridaFlyBoy]

Nice post, starmetal, thanks. You can get about the same results with a spoonful of phosphoric acid in a gallon of warm water too. (Concentration and / or temperature is not at all critical.)

You can buy phosphoric at any chemical supply company, and at most neighborhood chemical companies. Failing that, just buy some 'Naval Jelly" rust remover at your local hardware. It's just a thickened phosphoric solution. It's more expensive that way, but hey, at a spoonful at a time, it won't break anyone's budget.

Phosphoric also has the advantage of very low toxicity: It's what gives most soda pop its tang. It is also much less reactive to organics (won't burn your skin) than most strong acids. Phosphoric is also used industrially to make metal surfaces corrosion resistant. Works for steel anyhow. Don't know about brass, but my cases in storage remain clean and untarnished year after year, so something good is going on.

A quick way to dry the clean cases is to pour off any excess water, and then pile them up on a beach towel. Grab both ends to make a hammoc, and pour them back and forth a few times. This won't dry the insides, but residual heat will help them dry inside more quickly. If you need them in a hurry, set your oven for 'warm', or about 120 degrees. When it's up to temperature, turn it off and put the cases in. They'll be dry in about half an hour.

I've used this for decades to keep my brass clean. Not shiny, but very obviously clean, just like you showed in your photo. Same basic technology, but different chemicals to do the job.

I use the water( 4 parts )/ white vinegar(1 part)/dawn(4 dropfuls)/salt ( dash) solution in a Hornady ultrasonic machine, and then take the extra step of media tumbling after drying, and most of the brass looks new.I suspect it's the water hardness that leaves water spots on the brass.The tumbling ( also with a few drops of Frankford Arsenal Brass Polish in it) removes the water spots making the brass look ( almost ) new

[EDG]

Stress corrosion cracking of what?


Ethanol effect on cartridge brass. The ethanol in the mix is so diluted that i have to guess it will do no harm to cartridge brass?? Do i need to worry about this?? Photo is from gov. testing of different grades of gas containing ethanol. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/FirearmsReloading102/ethanolampcartridgebrass.jpg Dawn dish detergent contains as much as 7% Ethanol. Ethanol can cause stress crossion cracking.

[FloridaFlyBoy]

Do you think the ethanol at 7% in one tablespoon of Dawn (estimated approx. 1 ml of ethanol ) exposed to the brass for less than 30 minutes, and thoroughly rinsed ( 3 x in fresh tap water)after ultrasonic cleaning, and then tumbled in corn cob media with Frankford Arsenal brass polish( after dryig), will have a great long term effect as to cause stress corrosion cracking and how long will it take to crack? and how many reloads will I get before it is noticeble?

Thanks.

[OnceFired]

Just found Lowes had Ball Citric Acid in 7.5oz bottles on clearance. Got the remaining 10 bottles for just $2.15 each - over 4.5 lbs for $21.50 That's the cheapest I have found it anywhere local - even WalMart is at $2.97 a pop. This should keep me going on my 5.56mm cleaning for quite some time.

Anyone found a local source for bulk?

Once Fired

[ffgray]

I've heard of this magic before, but I've never been able to find any citric acid. More details please.

I got a 40 lb bag of it from bulk apothecary on the internet, just google that. I use it for taxidermy, but I think they sell it in smaller packages also.

[douglasskid]

Ijust bought some citric acid, going to try it now!!!! THANKS

[mvintx]

Well I've signed on to this cleaning madness and had the wife pick up some Lemishine and citric acid at Walmart, but the citric acid she got is labeled Ball Fruit-Fresh. It lists it's ingredients as dextrose, ascorbic acid, citric acid and silicon dioxide. It costs about $5 and rather than open it, I ordered some citric acid from Duda Diesel on Amazon and I'll have the wife return the Fruit-Fresh.

I mixed 1/4 tsp Lemishine and 2 tsp Dawn in one gallon of our well water. The brass has been soaking for about 2 hours now and the insides of the cases are not clean at all but the primer pockets look pretty good. Maybe the amount of Lemishine should be increased to approximate the 3 tbs of citric acid? I'll try that and then the citric acid when it arrives in a few days.

[62chevy]

I use the Ball fruit fresh and it works just fine. You will need a sonic-cleaner to get the insides clean or cut a scotch bright to size. But the straight citric acid may work better and should be cheaper in bulk.

[mvintx]

I use the Ball fruit fresh and it works just fine. You will need a sonic-cleaner to get the insides clean or cut a scotch bright to size. But the straight citric acid may work better and should be cheaper in bulk.

I appreciate hearing that. It seems that most of the guys who posted the best results were using citric acid. I didn't remember reading that sonic cleaning was required to get the insides clean. I don't have one but my shooting buddy does - mabye he'll let me borrow it.

I've always used walnut for cleaning and I don't deprime the brass before doing so but I wanted to uniform the primer pockets on my latest batch of LC .308 cases as I've had a hard time seating primers, sooooooo I thought this would be a good opportunity to try the citrus cleaning method. I don't really care if the insides are clean - as long as they feed, fire and look good, I'm happy.

[AlaskanGuy]

I noticed when using citric acid to clean badly tarnished cases that it turned them a pinkish color... Who cares though, long as they are cleaned up....

[WallyM3]

That pinkish color is leached copper. If it comes off in tumbling, it's a trifling matter. If not, it could indicate a weak spot in the brass.

[mvintx]

My cases are not badly tarnished to begin with so perhaps I'm expecting too much from this cleaning process. They're tumbled clean before reloading and then tumbled again after reloading to remove case lube. But after firing they do get grimy, dirty, stepped on and driven over. Walnut does a pretty good job of cleaning them but I'm thinking this is a better process.

I'd be OK with pink.

[AlaskanGuy]

They are not pink in spots... The whole case is pinkish... They started out looking very dark brown.... Threw them in to see what would happen, and they came out pink and clean....

[WallyM3]

That's just sounds like aging. I've shot plenty of that with no worries.

[will52100]

Interesting reading, I use lemi shine and dawn dishwashing liquid in my thumbler's tumbler as my solution along with stainless steel media. I hand de prime each case before cleaning, and after 3 hours or so everything comes out like new. I use about 4 tbsp or so of lemi shine and a good squirt of dawn.

On a side note if I put in a case that's been left on the range for months, you know, black and full of dirt, after tumbling it is a copper pink color. Doesn't seem to hurt for pistol caliber, and on next tumbling it's bright brass again.

I'm wondering if anyone has used the citric acid on black powder rounds? I use my stainless media on black powder fired cases, but they come out clean but dull. If I want them shiny I have to use either ceramic media, which has a tendency to jam up in the cases being a PITA to get out, or wash media and cases and tumble again.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've posted this before...but not for many months.
I bought 10lbs of bulk food grade citric acid from Dudadiesel for $26.99 >free ship.
http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric

[myg30]

I got the pink brass when using the ultra sonic cleaner with the vinergar,dawn mix BUT the rest of the process was to nutralize the acid with a baking soda,distilled water cycle. I had lots of pink brass and forgot if it was from to much baking soda or not enough to kill the vinigar ?
Google ultrasonic brass cleaning or the forum on 6mmbench rest and there was lots of info on it.
Now I guess there is a commercial mix to do wonders in cleaning brass now. I went back to tumbling with corncob as it was faster and less hassle fer me.

Mike

[rattletrap1970]

One word... Citranox. (Look it up)
We use it at work in ultrasonic cleaners for cleaning brass parts to braize into antenna parts.
It works fantastically in wet tumblers and it super concentrated. You use about 1/2 a capful to a tumbler drum.

[Wag]

Okay, I tried this (OP recipe) today. My wife has citric acid powder on hand to use in soap-making so I asked her nicely and she let me have a couple tablespoons. Seems to work very well, very fast. My new brass-cleaning method!

--Wag--

[Oddbod]

That pinkish color is leached copper. If it comes off in tumbling, it's a trifling matter. If not, it could indicate a weak spot in the brass.

The pink is due to the zinc in the surface layer of the brass being dissolved by the acid, leaving behind a very thin layer of copper. It's called dezincification. It shouldn't be an issue during the lifetime of cartridge brass.

[WallyM3]

Right.

[josper]

Have used citric acid solution for awhile. First read about it in the NRA "Handloading" manual that was first published in the 80's, Their info was from from Frankford Arsenal. The cases are clean but not shiny bright. Interestingly they also mention a sulfuric acid dip, no thanks, and vinegar and salt solution. Have seen citric acid also at stores that sell wine making supplies. I used the vinegar water solution ,4cups of water 1 cup vinegar tbs salt tbs of Dawn dish soap. It worked so well in my Lyman 2500 sonic cleaner it ate a hole right through the tub. On the box it says the tub is stainless steel. The tub looks like nickel plated steel. Be ware of using these recipes from the web.

[trixter]

For the past 4 years, I have used a Lyman vibratory tumbler, walnut (lizard litter), and New-Finish auto polish and strips of used dryer sheets. I usually let it go for at least 4-5 hours and sometimes I let it go overnight. I just like shiny brass. I have been very happy with this method of brass cleaning, one of the problems I have seen is that the media gets dirty, I am pretty sure from powder residue on the cases, and dirt form the floor after sweeping them up. So I have read most of the replies and enjoyed them thoroughly. I always try to work within the parameters of the "KISS" principle. So I am thinking that if I get the 'dirty' stuff off, then I can just throw them in the tumbler and see how long it takes to get them shiny. I put 1 heaping tablespoon of Lemishine in a Costco nut jar full of HOT water and add empties and swirl, shake, rattle and roll. looking to see if they are clean, then onto a cookie sheet and into the oven at 170 deg for( I got busy doing other stuff ) and then into the tumbler for about 2 hours and voila. The overall time was about the same but the dirt in the dryer sheet strips was much less. To me I get cleaner empties going into the dies, and that is the overall goal.

[JWFilips]

trixter,

This is almost exactly what I do. When I amass a pile of brass I have shot I will citric acid clean them, dry them an give them a few hours in my vibrating case cleaner with lizard grit, a dash or two of nu-finish and a few dry sheet pieces I have been doing this for about 4 years now and the wash does save time in the vibrator and keeps the grit cleaner longer and cuts down the time in the grit. However sooner or later it will loose it's bit and also get dirty I change mine out every 4 months on average

[aa1911]

This is awesome, wife had some on hand for canning, soap making, etc; borrowed a few teaspoons and put it to work on some .45LC brass that was pretty fugly. works like a champ!!

Gonna buy a whole bunch to keep by the reloading bench, good stuff.

[OnceFired]

Did another couple rounds of brass in the mixer today. Boiled water and added to hot tap water - about 5-6 gallons in the cement mixer, with another 5 gallon bucket of brass, dish soap, and a fat dose of citric acid. Worked like a charm. Having hotter water definitely makes a difference.

Was doing a combo of air-drying on the drying table with a big fan on it + using the convection oven to finish the job since it's been so flippin cold here the past week. Worked beautifully. Love to use the advice I have been given from this forum - it's always spot-on.

[josper]

I just replaced my lyman 2500 sonic cleaner that I ruined with the vinegar formula with an RCBS sonic cleaner. Both models say their tanks are "sus 304 stainless steel" I intend to be more vigilant in what I'm putting into my tank for cleaner. I purchased the cleaner from RCBS and I noticed the key ingredient is citric acid.

[1950Hudson]

Well, I have now read this entire thread. Yes I have! Along the way I noticed several mentions of Ball Citric Acid. How does Ball Citric Acid differ from Flake, or Extruded Citric Acid? Do they have a different burn rate or does one just meter better than the other? JK JK :smile: I've been iced in for five days in Texas and having a bit of cabin fever. I suspect that Ball is the same name as the canning supply maker.

I can report, though, that Dudadiesel does ship 10lbs of Citric acid very promptly and well packaged.

That, at least, got here just before the storm. I'm busy acquiring supplies and unpacking casting/swaging/reloading gear/brass that has been in storage for ten years. Theoretically, the post office and various package delivery services will be bringing me some early Christmas presents BUT, I had a shipment that was supposed to get here last Friday, and when I checked the tracking page last it now said N/A.

I need to mix a batch of Ed's Red, but traffic has been too insane to venture out for ingredients. I've driven blizzards across Wyoming and mountain passes in Colorado and NM all through the winter, but a Texas ice storm is a thing all to itself.

Listening to the craziness on my little scanner radio, I heard one sand truck driver tell another sand truck driver he'd just seen a hungry squirrel and a hungry coyote out on the snow. The two critters had met and solved the problem for both of them...

[62chevy]

Well, I have now read this entire thread. Yes I have! Along the way I noticed several mentions of Ball Citric Acid. How does Ball Citric Acid differ from Flake, or Extruded Citric Acid? Do they have a different burn rate or does one just meter better than the other? JK JK :smile: I've been iced in for five days in Texas and having a bit of cabin fever. I suspect that Ball is the same name as the canning supply maker.

I can report, though, that Dudadiesel does ship 10lbs of Citric acid very promptly and well packaged.

That, at least, got here just before the storm. I'm busy acquiring supplies and unpacking casting/swaging/reloading gear/brass that has been in storage for ten years. Theoretically, the post office and various package delivery services will be bringing me some early Christmas presents BUT, I had a shipment that was supposed to get here last Friday, and when I checked the tracking page last it now said N/A.

I need to mix a batch of Ed's Red, but traffic has been too insane to venture out for ingredients. I've driven blizzards across Wyoming and mountain passes in Colorado and NM all through the winter, but a Texas ice storm is a thing all to itself.

Listening to the craziness on my little scanner radio, I heard one sand truck driver tell another sand truck driver he'd just seen a hungry squirrel and a hungry coyote out on the snow. The two critters had met and solved the problem for both of them...

You guessed right Ball citric acid is found in the canning section at Walmart right next to the Mason jars.

Darn Coyote isn't hungry anymore. lol

[Sasquatch-1]

It was probably Scrat from the kids dinosaur movie and he probably took out the coyote. You know how he was with that acorn.[smilie=f:

[blueeyephil]

I bought a couple of the 5oz bottles sold for canning in the clearance rack at the local Tractor Supply for .99 each the other day was 3.99 getting ready to try on some kitchen hinges. Repainting the cabinets and got some real funky brass plated hinges. Hope it works.

[meshugunner]

I've been using it to clean take black burned residue off pots and burner rings. It's the only thing that works. Ammonia is very effective on stuff that hasn't been completely carbonized.

I use it to make lemonade in the summer and I put a little in my water bottle when I go hiking. Keeps it tasting fresh and suppresses bacterial growth.

[Sasquatch-1]

If the hinges had lacquer on them originally you may want to try burning it off with a torch first. I few light passes should be enough. Don't have to heat the metal much.



getting ready to try on some kitchen hinges. Repainting the cabinets and got some real funky brass plated hinges. Hope it works.

[bsnjsmith]

I was just wondering, aren't most soaps alkali? So doesn't mixing acid and base neutralize somewhat?

[Dframe]

I've used citric acid for a LONG time whenever I acquire especially dirty brass. Works great! I bought a small bottle of the powder at a "health food" store.

[62chevy]

I was just wondering, aren't most soaps alkali? So doesn't mixing acid and base neutralize somewhat?

Maybe but it works better with the soap. Tried with just the soap and that's not as good as both same with just citric acid too.

[trixter]

Just a point of interest; be sure to wash with soapy water and rinse your cases well after you "acid bath" them. Please don't ask me how I know.

[waco]

Just a point of interest; be sure to wash with soapy water and rinse your cases well after you "acid bath" them. Please don't ask me how I know.

really???
i cleaned a bunch of brass about a year ago and just rinsed with hot water. no ill affect....

[JWFilips]

It appears to me that if one used an "acetic acid" bath to clean ( Vinegar bath) it is best to follow up with an alkali Sodium Bicarbonate bath ( Baking Soda) then a clean water rinse. But For some reason the alkali bath is not needed after a "citric acid" cleaning bath.... Just rinse a few times in clean water

[KZNammunition]

Hi Chaps

We use Tartaric acid which is used for baking and can be bought from most shopping stores
same procedure as sagacious sugestead

Regards
Charlie

[6.5 swede]

Hello everyone, I am new to the site and have posted a few times already, used the citric acid with some dawn soap to clean the oils off works great! and such a money saver, is safe to use and cheap to make. thanks for all your knowledge.

[WallyM3]

Has anyone heard from "sagacious"?

[Ktmrider]

I am very new to this forum because I'm trying to learn about making my own. Since the great guys here are giving their information helping others I wanted to hope that I could do the same. I'm not trying to hijack or promote the company that I work for but I will say that I have a very impressive case cleaner that is a bit on the acidic side. We sell it for the use in our cleaners but even on its own it will clean brass quite well. If anyone is interested I will give up the name of it but once again I do not want to promote my company, I'm just looking at trying to help guys that have helped me so far.

[62chevy]

I am very new to this forum because I'm trying to learn about making my own. Since the great guys here are giving their information helping others I wanted to hope that I could do the same. I'm not trying to hijack or promote the company that I work for but I will say that I have a very impressive case cleaner that is a bit on the acidic side. We sell it for the use in our cleaners but even on its own it will clean brass quite well. If anyone is interested I will give up the name of it but once again I do not want to promote my company, I'm just looking at trying to help guys that have helped me so far.

There is nothing wrong with promoting the company that you work for, after all that is how you make your money. When I worked for a gaming/sports card distributor I had no problems handing out cards and asking for their business. It didn't always work but the few times it did brought in some good customers.

[mcvet]

I buy a bottle of Apple cider vinegar, works great and can be reused a couple times.

[00buck]

Lemmi
Shine

Dishwaher Detergent additive is sold at the super market. Made with citric acid. Made with real fruit acids and natural citrus oils.

Put it on Wifey's shopping list

[Mortonspoint]

I've used Lemmi Shine as well. This works really well!

[luvtn]

Thank you very much. Finished reading this whole thread in two days. I have been using real lemon with a little dawn in a 7lb plastic coffee container. I probably need to heat mine/change it out since I have used it multiple times. Until this I never cleaned my brass. Now it isn't as dingy. :) I belong to a food buying club. I bet they have some citric acid in bulk.
luvtn

[JWFilips]

Just a heads up on something I have noticed:

For years when I was using Vinegar / water / Dawn mix I would heat almost to the boil in my microwave in a hard plastic MW safe container with no problems ...however I have found if I do this mix but with citric acid ( instead of Vinegar) for some reason my microwave oven shorts out & trips the circuit breaker! Air it out & it is fine again.
Substitute the Citric acid with Vinegar all is well again !!! Very strange ! BUT...I prefer the citric acid mix better ( no more red brass)

BTW just heating the liquid not with brass in it!

[62chevy]

Just a heads up on something I have noticed:

For years when I was using Vinegar / water / Dawn mix I would heat almost to the boil in my microwave in a hard plastic MW safe container with no problems ...however I have found if I do this mix but with citric acid ( instead of Vinegar) for some reason my microwave oven shorts out & trips the circuit breaker! Air it out & it is fine again.
Substitute the Citric acid with Vinegar all is well again !!! Very strange ! BUT...I prefer the citric acid mix better ( no more red brass)

BTW just heating the liquid not with brass in it!

I use an old coffee pot to heat the citric acid solution. Works great and keeps the pot clean too.

[SHOTS FIRED]

Wow, I just started reloading and have tried all sorts of cleaners, internet remedies, etc. to clean brass cases. Wish I would have found this thread first. The Citric Acid is cheep, fast, non toxic, does not harm the brass and surpasses anything in cleaning. I'll look no further.

Thanks!

[Garyshome]

It works pretty good, but don't leave your brass in there very long. I left a Mosin case [steel] in there for way too long and 50% of it was gone.

[Lizard333]

It doesn't harm brass. Steel on the other hand......

[WallyM3]

It doesn't harm brass. Steel on the other hand......

Particularly if there are dissimilar metals in the bath.

[jonp]

I heat the water to boiling on the stove and pour it in a giant glass bowl i bought fir a couple of bucks at a swap meet. Add a tablespoon or two of powdered citric acid you can buy at walmart, a shot of dawn and mix well. Toss in brass and swirl. Swirl every 10 min or so then rinse well in hot water. Put in the stove at 220 for 20 min and its clean. If you want it even cleaner you can tumble it with nufinish and mineral spirits. After the first citric bath i go straight to tumbling.
ive tried vinegar, salt and a few other recipes butbthe citric seemed to work best for me

[jonp]

This is awesome, wife had some on hand for canning, soap making, etc; borrowed a few teaspoons and put it to work on some .45LC brass that was pretty fugly. works like a champ!!

Gonna buy a whole bunch to keep by the reloading bench, good stuff.
i bought some 45colt range brass from someone on here last year. Some looked like they had been outside a couple of years and although sound were really bad. Did the citric bath then tumbled and they look almost new.

Im wondering about the dryer sheets though. Ive used both walnut and corn and never noticed that much dust. Is it for something else?

[Unclenick]

For those not familiar with it, the old Frankford Arsenal formula in the NRA book, Handloading, edited by Wm. C. Davis, is 5% citric acid in water by weight. That's a reusable solution that will last a long time. I got good, prompt service ordering it direct from this vendor (http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric&affiliate_pro_tracking_id=17:36:), who's also one of the eBay vendors linked to earlier.

Pure lemon juice is also about 5% citric acid by weight. But considering that you can buy 10 lb of anhydrous citric acid for less than $25, postage paid, lemon juice is a dramatically more expensive way to get the same thing, plus sticky sugars coloring and lemon scent. 7 ounces of citric acid powder added to a full gallon of room temperature water gives you the 5% arsenal solution. If you add a smaller quantity to your cleaning solution to make it disposable, the product is stretched.

Lemishine is also a lot more expensive than citric acid pruchased in 10 lb quantity. As a previous poster said last year, Lemishine does nothing for brass that plain citric acid does not.

Citric acid is also used to passivate stainless steel that has been degreased. It is also used to lower the pH of shampoos and other detergents, which don't have their surfactant qualities affected adversely by this. It's why a squirt of Dawn or other dishwashing liquid in the mix still works to remove grease and oil and to suspend dirt and carbon.

[donald duck]

My wife just purchased a small bottle of Citric Acid in powder or small granules for less than $5.00 at Natural grocers here in colorado springs.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Lifetime supply ? ? $20 for 5lbs. on Amazon.com

[fiberoptik]

You might give an old clorox bottle a try. The plastics in that are much heavier.

Vinegar bottles are thickest!

[dougader]

A guy from church gave me 40 old 30-06 cases so I deprimed them and threw them into the old jug of citric acid/dawn that has been sitting there for about a year. The water was cold, and I just dropped the cases in there, capped the bottle and shook them up for a bit. I let them rest for a couple hours and then rinsed them off and dried them on an old cookie sheet in the oven for 10 minutes. They look great.

So, the solution does last and it really doesn't need to be hot to work well in my experience. 8-)

[WallyM3]

I've never heated the water and generally not gone over 1/2 hour even with the dirtiest brass.

The odd think that happens here is that things start growing in the solution. It's a clear, gelatinous, globular colony of some jelly-fish-consistency life form. Happens every time after about a couple of weeks.

Still works...but at a point, it becomes objectionable to work with.

[boho]

I use a few drops of dishwashing soap and a teaspoon of food grade citric acid in a heated ultrasonic cleaner and it gets brass super clean inside and out. Even cleans out primer pockets!

[62chevy]

I've never heated the water and generally not gone over 1/2 hour even with the dirtiest brass.

The odd think that happens here is that things start growing in the solution. It's a clear, gelatinous, globular colony of some jelly-fish-consistency life form. Happens every time after about a couple of weeks.

Still works...but at a point, it becomes objectionable to work with.


Same problem here so it gets dumped every time. The stuff just plugs a coffee filter so that option is out.

[WallyM3]

If left to "colonize" long enough, it'll plug my drain!

Have any idea what it (they) is (are)?

Or how to prevent it?

[62chevy]

If left to "colonize" long enough, it'll plug my drain!

Have any idea what it (they) is (are)?

Or how to prevent it?

Not a clue I just dump it every time its made and used then flush the drain out.

[Grump]

Same problem here, when temps the the shop get above 65-70° F or so.

I'm pretty sure it's an airborne mold. Some of those spore life forms can be pretty...durable. Saw a mushroom stem this morning, maybe 5/8" diameter and a good three inches tall, poking up from the dried mud clod it displaced. Out in the dirt beyond the sod laid in early April, it gets watered every other day and I *though* the uncovered dirt was getting totally dry in between waterings.


If left to "colonize" long enough, it'll plug my drain!

Have any idea what it (they) is (are)?

Or how to prevent it?

[WallyM3]

I'm thinking of trying distilled water just once (this is a covered vessel) to see if it makes any difference. If not, I'll just change the solution occasionally. Seems to work fine even amidst the...whatever it is.

[HangFireW8]

Hot water just speeds up the drying process. That and a 100w desk lamp!

[WallyM3]

I've got a furnace that has a flat top. It can fit 3 colanders full of brass and dries them in about 12 hours; shorter when it's running a lot in winter. Even if not dry, I tumble them wet with the lids off (Dillon 2000 series tumblers) and the moisture evaporates pretty quickly.

[RogerDat]

I gave this a try on about 500 cases. Original recipe. 2 teaspoons to about a quart of hot water. Everything came out nice and clean. Some of this was mil-surplus 303 british cases that where tarnished when I shot them several years ago. The rest had been sitting in a bag on the shelf for 10 years.

inside the cases are clean enough I can look in and tell if the 303 cases are boxer or berdan primed. I don't think it is worth storing the liquid in my case since I can mix up many batches from the little $4 jar. Don't need another jug of something sitting on the shelf taking up space. Or possibly leaking or getting spilled.

[62chevy]

Walmart stopped caring citric acid so this time bought Lime-shine but don't think it works as good as citric acid does.

[square butte]

Our local Walmart is still carrying citric acid. Just bought some 3 days ago in the canning supply dept.

[Guido4198]

Thanks... I'm going to give it a try. Should cut tumbling time a lot.

[willlong9]

So citric acid helps clean out the inside of the cases..... I don't have a tumbler yet. ( new guy ) I just wash them in dawn dish soap and hot water.

[WallyM3]

Well...there's a whole lot more to it than that, but it's an significant part of a complete management regimen.

I've discovered a number beneficial nuances of the process since "sagacious" gave life to this thread.

[SniderBoomer]

When I was younger, we had lots of Citric Acid crystals at hand for cleaning home-made wine making demijohns.

I worked in a station, where some joker was safecracking our lockers on other shifts, and helping themselves to our coffee and sugar.

One night, we replaced the sugar jar with citric acid. They look identical.

No more of the 6-feet tall mouse stealing our sugar... (don't try this, if you have metal fillings in your mouth, the pain is instant and quite indescribable)

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Limishine, I think is the name of an additive for your diswasher to get dishes clean and spotless. Active ingredient is citric acid. Works with silver jewelery too.

[nemesisenforcer]

For a smart guy, I'm constantly amazed at how much I don't know.

Going to start this next load I have to clean.

[lreed]

I have just finished cleaning a five gal bucket of "gulf coast" pistol brass,brown,grungy stuff,but cheap. The citric acid treatment worked like magic,great stuff. Thanks lreed

[35Whelen]

$8 a kilogram ( thats 2.2lbs for the boys south of the 49th ) bought some today and cleaned up some old 30/06 brass I was going to chuck out. Thanks everyone, who would have ever thought we could generate 34 pages on this subject ;)

[cbrick]

$8 a kilogram ( thats 2.2lbs for the boys south of the 49th ) bought some today and cleaned up some old 30/06 brass I was going to chuck out. Thanks everyone, who would have ever thought we could generate 34 pages on this subject ;)

34 pages, 670 posts and 4 1/2 years. :mrgreen: Must be something to it huh?

Rick

[spiritwalker]

34 pages, 670 posts and 4 1/2 years. :mrgreen: Must be something to it huh?

RickThat's what I'm beginning to think. I've actually used the citric acid treatment and the only way I can get my brass any cleaner and shinier would be to hand polish all of my brass.

[Dframe]

I don't use it all the time. But when I come into a quantity of REALLY REALLY filthy brass (Which I just recently did) there is just nothing better. I've noticed mine sometimes have a slight pinkish cast to them when the come out of the acid mix. Usually a paper towel wipe down takes care of it. If not a quick trip into the corncob will make them shine like new.

[beastybronco]

what happens if you use a metal pot with a non stick coating on the inside with the acid? Thats the only pan i have to heat up the solution with. Thanks

[huntincowboy]

I just use the hottest water I can get out of the tap in an old plastic bowl and it works great for me.

[300winmag]

Don't pay online prices for lemi-shime, it cheaper at Walmart and cheaper at the Dollar store.
Happy cleaning
300

[62chevy]

what happens if you use a metal pot with a non stick coating on the inside with the acid? Thats the only pan i have to heat up the solution with. Thanks

I agree hotter the better but I use a pan to heat the water and put the cases, lemi-shine and Dawn is a plastic coffee jug with a lid. Let it sit for an hour and shack every 10 to 15 minutes.

[Steve Steven]

I looked up three different products of the many versions available, seems like "LemiShine Origional" is the one to use, it has up to 100% of "Supplier Trade Secret" material which must be Citric acid. Lists up to 5% other "Supplier Trade Secret" material, probably scent or something. Walmart locally (Virginia) has it for $7 for 24oz.

Here is the web site with the MSDS list.

http://lemishine.com/system/130-2/

Steve

[RP]

Look over in the canning section they sell critic acid there also if you want a lot look at bakery supplies you can get a lot cheap if you want to order it.

[altheating]

At Walmart check next to the dish washer detergents. My local walmart has two kinds, Lemishine and one in a blue and white bottle. I have both and both work equally well. I cut a high base 12 gauge she'll off at the top of the brass as a measure for the limishine. One measure to two gallons hot water and a small squirt of cheap dish soap.

[depoloni]

Pricing update if anyone's cares. Midwesterners may be familiar with Meijer superstores...

Purchased 4 cans of "Ball" brand citric today in the housewares isle with the canning stuff. 7.5 oz per jar (4x = 30oz) at $2.49 per.
Works good. Always had just-fine results using ONLY detergent/dawn and water with the stainless pins, but this will speed up the necessary cycle time considerably. Isn't worth the minimal cost NOT to use it!

[Bongo Boy]

I've not used anything labeled as citric acid, but I use an Alconox product called 'Citrinox' which is citric acid based. I used roughly 2 ounces or so of the concentrate in my 1 gallon ultrasonic cleaner, and in 8 minutes I have brass that looks like it just came from the Starline factory--and in the primer pockets, which is my main concern. I stopped tumbling completely several years ago because I saw no point--for me, tubling got the outside of the cases looking pretty, but besides leaving rouge all over the place, it didn't do a damn think for the inside of the cases or, even more importantly, the primer pockets. Didn't see the point.

The only downside is that your cases are now wet. But I live in Colorado, so they won't be wet in 20 minutes. It's a little pricey by the time Amazon ships a gallon to me, but I believe a gallon would clean several thousand cases. Most of the time I don't clean my fired brass at all, but every now and then I like to 'start fresh', and ultrasonic with Citrinox is, or me, the answer.

[RPRNY]

Here in Colorado as well. I admit a batch of 45 Colt went in the oven to dry off this evening, Convection bake at 200F for 10 mins :)

I use food grade citric acid, 5 lbs bags usually ship to the house for $15 -$20 dollars. I use two table spoons and s good dollop of washing up liquid with a quart of hot water. Lasts me a long time. Never more than 5 mins, generally 3 mins in the solution. Stir the brass, empty the bucket, rinse with cool water. Brass is super clean inside and out - primer pockets too, as you note. The citric acid also passivates the brass. It'll stay tarnish free on the shelf for a very long time.

[Littlewolf]

thanks for the now food link i found a storethat carries citric acid right here about 3 miles from the house, YAY

[chancho veloz]

I just use lemon juice. It works fine.

[khmer6]

Awesome.... Another way to add to the cleaning brass obsession!

[goofyoldfart]

for all you people that have Kidney Stones (only works on calcium stones) take a 32 oz bottle, place 2 ozs each of lemon juice, lime juice(cuts some of the tartness) and Apple cider vinegar. fill with water and add two packs of Wilers water flavor (your choice of flavor). Cap and shake well and sip 2--3 ozs. at a time. if two bitter add some sweet and low to sweeten. It will disolve CALCIUM stones, which will be urinated out as Calcium oxilate. it works for me and for everyone that I have told about it. It has worked for 35 years for me whenever the kidneys start to act up. Old wives remedy that WORKS. God Bless to all and theirs

Goofyoldfart

[dougader]

I find citric acid online for $2.25/14.4 ounces but they wanted $13 for shipping! Went to the local winery/home brewing supply store and got food grade citric acid $4.50/pound.

[bottomline]

Is there a need to use a wet tumbler or does the citric acid work just sitting in a bucket of hot water ?

[square butte]

Bucket of hot water works just fine. I do tumble mine a bit one more time after they have been rinsed and dried

[Doc Highwall]

I went to Home Depot and bought two plastic buckets, a 5/6 gallon with a lid and a 2-1/2 gallon that would fit inside the larger bucket. I then drilled a bunch of 5/16 holes into the bottom and lower sides of the 2-1/2 gallon bucket for drain holes. I place the cases into the 2-1/2 gallon bucket and then place it into the larger 5/6 gallon bucket that holds the lemi-shine. I shake the smaller 2-1/2 gallon bucket about once every 30 - 45 minutes to help make sure there are no air pockets trapped. I generally let the cases soak about 2 - 3 hours then drain as much citric acid as possible before rinsing in water with dish detergent followed by a fresh water rinse and then throw them into my tumbler for 15-20 minutes to dry them.

[Grapeshot]

I clean my cases after I anneal them with Tarn-X. I put the Tarn-X in a plastic tub full of brass and let them soak for a few minutes as I stir them around with a wooden paint stirrer. I then pour the entire batch into a bucket of warm water supper saturated with Baking Soda to neutralize the Muriatic Acid in the Tarn-X. Works great and the brass makes great Jackets for my .45's.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I'm a believer, I sipped the koolaide. :-)

Not really, but I just washed 200 plus deprimed hulls in hot water with 2 packs of kool aide mix added. Worked like a charm. I then rinsed the hulls in cold running water and put them in the sun to dry. Then I found some really dull and almost black hulls for a test, dropped them in the solution and in about 5 minutes they were turning bright. Kinda scary what we will give our kids and ourselves to put in our body.

[ErikO]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the five years of this thread but I found this source for bulk: http://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/other-ingredients-and-chemicals/citric-acid/

$26 shipped for an 8# order to St Louis, folks near Aurora, OH can pick up for $16.

[bangerjim]

I just get my CA at WalMart in the canning section. Works GREAT!!!!!! You can use the mix several times. Also cleans darkened FMJ's nicely.


I just do it in a big plastic container. Hot tap water does it. Recycled....heat in the microwave.

Amazing stuff that has been around for a looooooooooooong time!

[Love Life]

Diesel labs will sell 5 lb bags of food grade citric cid for a very reasonable price on Amazon. It's what I use.

[GrayTech]

Thanks, I quit putting it in, but knowing that I guess I'll add it again.
Keep in mind that hydrochloric acid will eat away any metal. It produces the metallic chloride salt and hydrogen gas. I would avoid soaking for any length of time if salt is added. Even diluted, HCl is considered a strong acid.

[bangerjim]

HCl is too strong ionically to use as a case cleaner. Unlike H2SO4 (battery acid) the ionic strength of HCl is at a very high level at only 5-15%. It will leach the components (zinc and others) out of your brass, leaving only Cu behind and possibly weakening the cases.

Citric acid is very low on the ionic strength scale and performs very well for cleaning brass without doing structural or metallurgical harm that I can determine.

I clean brass clock movements in my big ultrasonics with "clock cleaner"...normally an ammoniated solution made from green soap, 30% printer's ammonia solution, acetic acid, acetone, and water. It is an amazing cleaning solution!!!! NOT for gun brass cases!!!!!!!! Anything with ammonia will weaken your brass. That means BRASSO! And TarnX is right up there as a no-no also.

bangerjim

[kdbarker]

I use "Lemi Shine" for all my case cleaning and polishing needs. Its made from citrus acids and available in most stores. I use this in my wet tumbler with a little dish soap... simple, cheap, non-toxic, and available everywhere.
Cleans inside out and gets the primmer pockets nice and clean.

144108

144109

[toallmy]

Well I read the whole 35 pages. I have been using vinegar water dawn and salt it has been working ,but when I expand my case necks the case sticks and I shake the whole bench to remove it .so I tried the ball canning citric acid.I think it worked as good ,and the case does not stick as bad .I was always worried about the vinegar hurting the brass . I might clean the real bad brass with water,vin ,solution first .I am trying to catch up ,but I am at least 5 years behind. But studying and casting seams to be cuting in on my shooting I'll get ready to fix that . Going shooting.

[armprairie]

That's what I use too, the Ball Citric Acid found at Walmart along with the Ball canning jars now that there in season. I like mixing some with sugar and eating a little bit when I use it. Reminds me of those sour apple drinking straws I use to get. Works quick on the brass too. A lot of people put it in their tomatoes when canning. Ball Brothers in Muncie, Indiana was the first factory I worked in June 1967.

[toallmy]

Going to try that sugar thing to eat on the next batch you have to love you some old mason jars.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I use the citric acid from Walmart with a little dawn dish washing liquid mixed in. I don't heat it up, I just let the cases soak about 15 minutes and rinse them off. Then I spread them on a cookie sheet and place them in front of the AC vent in the music/reloading room. Works really good for me.

[toallmy]

Used the citric and hot water on some brass works like a champ primer pockets and all.I have been using vinegar ,water salt and down but I was concerned about damage to the brass. But I am now having trouble with the brass being to clean . When I run the clean brass into my lee powder through die to expand the case it is sticking and I have to really snatch it out hard and then I am concerned the powder charge is thrown out of the little 9mm case. Now I need to find some kind of liquid polishes to rinse the brass in after citric cleaning for smother loading. Has anyone got some ideas. I know I should get a case tumbler but I hate sitting there and watching it jiggle around. I gave my younger brother my last case tumbler I might go visit hem with big box of brass and some pollish. This makes me think I might be lazy about cleaning my brass .

[62chevy]

Used the citric and hot water on some brass works like a champ primer pockets and all.I have been using vinegar ,water salt and down but I was concerned about damage to the brass. But I am now having trouble with the brass being to clean . When I run the clean brass into my lee powder through die to expand the case it is sticking and I have to really snatch it out hard and then I am concerned the powder charge is thrown out of the little 9mm case. Now I need to find some kind of liquid polishes to rinse the brass in after citric cleaning for smother loading. Has anyone got some ideas. I know I should get a case tumbler but I hate sitting there and watching it jiggle around. I gave my younger brother my last case tumbler I might go visit hem with big box of brass and some pollish. This makes me think I might be lazy about cleaning my brass .

Rinse your brass 3 or 4 times after cleaning. Could also be you are flaring more than needed. I clean in this solution and then tumble after they dry and the 45 acp will stick some because my Lee powder through die is rough. My other Lee dies work just fine.

[toallmy]

Might try polishing powder through die will see if that helps .o I changed out inside of the powder through die with a 38 s/w expander to help with shaving lead .I better take it out and look at it .Thanks.

[Pee Wee]

Did anyone mention lemmyshine

[62chevy]

Did anyone mention lemmyshine

Yes many times but may have been spelled differently.

[ncbluedot]

Let me also chime in as a fan of the citric acid bath. I procure my CA at the local home brewing supply store. My son recommended not mixing citric acid and dish washing soap since the soap is a base and the two are working against each other. I'm an accountant, what do I know? Any how, after I dip my brass in citric acid, I rinse with plain water then dump in a bath of soapy water, rinse a couple more times then dry in the sun. The dish soap seems to clean any left over crud in the primer pocket and remove any remaining greasy blackness on the case from using Unique (don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan but it seems a wee bit dirty). My two cents.

[toallmy]

This citric acid stuff works . I picked up a old r.c.b.s. 150 kt swc 357 mold off of ebay . It was supper grimie ,but no rust or scratches looked like it was put up 20 years ago Greased up but got grimmer . I had a 2 quart bucket of citric acid mixed up from brass cleaning so I warned it up and went to cleaning up the old mold soaking and scrubbing over and over with a old toothbrush. It came out looking like a brand new mold it completely removed everything including the finish I sit it on a burner to dry it out and it startled to flash rust but I rubbed it up with some 2 stroke oil real good and sit it up for the night. It was clean to bear metal . After I got my set of handles I took it to the basement and gave it a good heat treatment in the lead cooker lubed her up and went to pouring some nice looking .359-.360 bullets . That was what I was looking for I wanted an older mold because of concerns of new mold dimension . It worked out real nice .

[GhostHawk]

After reading a good chunk of this thread I had my wife pick me up some cheap citric acid from the dollar store. 1 ice cream pail, about 75 very grungy .223 brass, a quart of hot water, a sprinkling of citric acid, and a few drops of dawn turned me into a real believer!

I did take each piece of brass and wiped it clean dry with a cotton towel, I doubt I'd of had to. But what little grunge remained after several rinses came right off with the towel.

Turned me into a real believer.

Inexpensive, easy, not really time intensive, with awesome looking clean brass as the end result. Thank you to ALL!

[toallmy]

Yep what he said. I hadbeen using vinegar water dawn and salt but it was hard on the brass the citric acid seams less harmful on the brass. I don't tumble my brass . But I would like to find a good liquid pollish , the brass is to clean squeaky clean. If that makes sense.

[blueeyephil]

Now is a good time to begin watching the clearance racks at Tractor Supply and WalMart and others. Canning supplies will soon be taken off the main shelves.

[AllanD]

Please don't think i'm totally nuts, but today I cut some rhubarb for making sauce; knowing how tart it is, I made a slit in a stalk and stuck 1/2 of a really tarnished penny into the slit. In three minutes the half in the rhubarb was bright. After I cooked down the rhubarb I poured off a little of the now pink liquid (minus the pulp) into a dish and added two tarnished pennies. The result was the same bright pennies. The conclusion of these experiments was to add sufficient sugar to taste to the remaining infusion and refridgerate for later consumption. A search showed oxalic acid as the poison in the leaves and I remember oxalic acid as a bleach for stained wood, but what chemistry is at work in the juice of the rhubarb stalk? This is not a spoof posting. I do not plan large scale production, but where are my range pick up cases? John

Oxalic acid is the chemical agent at work, it can be found in the cleaning isle of your grocery store as "Barkeepers Friend"

Many of the organic acids are employed as corrosion removers, Citric as is discussed in this topic,
Acetic (Vinegar).
I've employed a mixture of Acetic & Malic acids to remove rust from steel.

And for the record (referencing several comments in the first several pages
Ascorbic OR Citric acids will prevent fruit from browning.

De-rusting steels work well with several other acids.
Hydrochloric will remove rust while you watch, but will turn a virulent yellow color,
from the Ferric Chloric created

it must be noted that Ferric Chloride is used as an etchant for copper in the manufacture
of printed circuit boards and it etches nickel nearly as well... it is used by coin collectors to
raise worn out dates on coins (particularly on Buffalo Nickels)

[sliphammer]

I've been using citric for a couple of years now. Sorry I didn't know about it 40 years back.

[AllanD]

Be aware Acetic acid and Hydrogen Peroxide will also create a particularly nasty lead compound Lead Acetate,
which is argueably one of the most "bioavailable" lead compounds... so use care in choosing where you dump it...


On another test mixed 1/2 peroxide 40 volume with 1/2 vinegar,removes lead real good . used some of this on an AK copper coated steel case in 15 minutes it ate all the copper off,that was yesterday and the case hasn't rusted yet so I dont know if thats a problem or not. Turns lead to mush.

[toallmy]

Yes that is how I cleaned my auto berals of lead whean I was working out sizing cast for my guns. 50/50hydrogen peroxide and vinegar . A have the mix in a mason jar and drop the beral in for a couple minutes and swab it out with ease ,but take the time to clean and oil up afterward. But onely stanless it will harm a blues finish.

[dudel]

Well, I'm sold! I picked up a bottle of Ball's Citric acid (in the canning section of WalMart) for about $3. I put 500 9mm cases into a plastic shoe box. Added about 1 TBSP of the Citric acid powder in the with the brass. I added enough hot water that the brass was submerged about 3 inches. Agitated the box by shaking it in the sink. Water began to get dirty almost immediately (and these were already tumbled cases)! I left the brass in for about 10 minutes. Rinsed well, and put the brass out to dry in the sun on a towel (I have a powder coat oven that should work well for drying). The brass looked great, and the pockets and inside the case were much cleaner. Figuring that the citric acid bath removed any corrosion protection, I gave the brass a quick tumble in corncob media with some NuFinish.

Next time, I'll just start with the Citric acid wash, and finish in the tumbler to get some corrosion protection on the brass.

This was easy, cheap and fast. Normally you only get to pick two of the three. My plans to go with steel pins and liquid cleaning are over.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I use the citric acid in cold water, just leave the brass in the solution a little longer. Then I rinse in cold water and put them in front of the AC vent to dry.

[toallmy]

Is I said earlier ,I had been using vinegar,water,salt and dawn , but it is hard on the brass . So I switched to the citric acid it is working out pretty well and it gives me more time with the vinegar you have to stay right on it or you start getting pink brass and that's bad... last night I tried rinsing the brass off with automotive liquid car wash and wax. After the citric bath. This time I put some dawn in with the citric acid and i an not shore it helped but I don't think it hurt . I left some brass in the citric acid bucket going to look at it after 6 hours and after 12 hours . Just to see man I hate to clean all those primer pockets .

[Walstr]

Citric acid in warm water replaced my dusty tumbler process for sure. With a new batch of grnd walnut, I added "Dillon Lube" to 'polish' all brass after cleaning. I confirmed w/Dillon that their case lube containing Lanolin will NOT adversely affect primer or powder. [See their response to my query on their site.]

So far it's da bomb! No re-sizer sticking & smoother operation, no hazardous dust.

[dougader]

If anyone is familiar with how nasty brass cases can get when loaded with W296 or other ball powders as in 357, 44 mag and 454, then you know that hours of tumbling will not remove that seemingly bead-blasted grunge. I've tumbled cases like this over 12 hours and they never get clean.

Well, 10 minutes in a warm citric acid bath and then 30 minutes in corn cobb with polish makes the cases shine like new. After the ca bath, I rinse the cases 3 times in hot tap water and then dry them in the sun. That's when they get the tumbling.

I only do this with the magnum-stained cases. All others get put away after drying from the ca bath..

I processed 300 once-fired Hornady 480 Ruger cases I picked up from Max Prasac, a tester of the new Ruger Super Blackhawk 480. They were pretty stained on the exterior from the magnum powder burns. Now they look like new.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Learned something new today about the citric acid process. I had sectioned a case so I could look for a possible defect in the inside because of a bulge. I had the bright idea to wash it in the citric acid. I attached a paper clip to the case so I could just hang it in the solution for a few minutes and expected to be bright and clean. Went back in about 10 minutes and found the case was black. The citric acid had removed the zinc plating from the paper clip and deposited it on the brass case. So....... don't submerge metal parts of a different material in with your brass cases for cleaning.

[will52100]

I can attest to that! I normally tumble about 3 hours with stainless steel media and some dawn and lemi shine and they come out clean. If there's a lot of black powder fired cases I may have to stop at 2 hours and change the water and soap, then tumble for a couple more hours. The last time I tumbled for 3 hours and the brass was shinny black. Didn't have time to tumble again so I sifted the media and put the brass out to dry and would tumble again the next day. Found a case chamfer tool in with the brass. No idea how it got there, but it sure turned the brass black. I tried tumbling again and the brass was only marginally cleaner. Then read about cleaning your media so I tumbled the SS media for about 2 hours with nothing but water and simple green. Tumbled the cases again for about 2 hours and they came out like new. All that because somehow a black oxide coated case chamfer tool somehow wound up in my tumbler. Still don't know how it got there.

[El Greco]

Do you re-use the same solution or you make a new batch every time?

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I re-use mine. I store it in a couple of plastic jugs that came with lemonade or some such drink in it. I did add about another tablespoon of citric acid last time I used it, and replaced the water I lost during rinse.

I don't heat it either, just let the de-primed hulls sit in it about 10-15 minutes, then rinse.

[OnceFired]

@olejoeclarke I did that once with nearly 10 gallons of citric acid water. It grew mold like you would not believe. I won't be saving the stuff. I might maybe keep it for a week or two at most. Even if I was trying to conserve water on property without city or well water, I would seriously not keep it long. Way more of a pain to deal with than it was worth.

[62chevy]

@olejoeclarke I did that once with nearly 10 gallons of citric acid water. It grew mold like you would not believe. I won't be saving the stuff. I might maybe keep it for a week or two at most. Even if I was trying to conserve water on property without city or well water, I would seriously not keep it long. Way more of a pain to deal with than it was worth.

I get the mold also so no saving for me.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I've had mine for several months with no mold. When I get mold, I'll pour it out, but not before. :-)

[dougader]

I store mine in old Snapple and other 1/2 gallon juice jugs, the kind with really thick plastic. I've never had mold problems, but after 3 or 4 uses it gets real dirty and then I throw it out.

I've also noticed that tumbling in media with polish after the ca bath makes the cases glide through carbide dies a lot more smoothly than just using the dried cases after a ca bath. The ca makes them squeaky clean and requires more pressure on the handle than cases that have even had 20 minutes in the media/polish tumbler.

[toallmy]

I have noticed that as well , strangely enough the brass is to clean after the citric bath , sticking in my case expander . I tried some liquid car wash and pollish to wax it but did not work had to tumble it with wax but that was quick.

[farmerjim]

Citric acid is so cheep, why would anybody want to save it?

[toallmy]

I might be a cheap or a conservative sorta fella , I am going to check my old citric acid bucket nope no jelly in it . The last time out I nuked it and the mold or jelly went away. But when it gets dirty I send it down the in-house whirlpool. 4 table spoons per haf gal but I still like to use it a couple times . I think I might be a horder.or lazy.

[farmerjim]

I use 1/2 teaspoon per 1/2 gallon, and do 3 batches of 300 each 9 mm per batch 5 to 10 minutes per batch. . You can get citric acid for about $3.50 a pound with free shipping. $10 worth will probably do at least a couple of million.

[toallmy]

1/2 teaspoon well I will try that I have been using 4 table spoons per haf gal . That will make it go a lot further.I might have been using to much. Will try next batch.

[farmerjim]

The brass that I am cleaning is not too bad. It is sometimes clean in a few seconds. Yours may need more cleaning than mine. Try less and see what happens. I also use hot water. The speed of a chemical reaction doubles for each 10 deg centigrade, on the average. And this is a chem reaction.

If you are using 4 tbs. then you probably have a lot of non reacted citric acid in your solution. with my 1/2 teaspoon it is all used up after 900 cases. so it is all thrown away.

[dougader]

Wow, 4 tablespoons? I use 1 or 2 teaspoons and only soak for 10 Minutes.

[62chevy]

I don't even measure citric acid just shack a bit in add soap and hot tap water shack it a few times then dump and rinse 3 time.

[DrDucati]

156770
I'm going to guess that having these green and white steaks on my brass is a sign of improper citric acid cleaning. :)

[dsbock]

156770
I'm going to guess that having these green and white steaks on my brass is a sign of improper citric acid cleaning. :)

Looks to me like insufficient rinsing. What's your rinse procedure?

David

[GhostHawk]

Agree with dsbock, and also suspect you using 5 x as much as you need.

I mostly do smaller batches, 50 - 150 pieces. I've never used more than a teaspoon, which dissolves instantly on contact.

That looks like you dumped in half a bottle, did not agitate or rinse. Of course looks can be deceiving so I could be wrong.

[DrDucati]

Agree with dsbock, and also suspect you using 5 x as much as you need.

I mostly do smaller batches, 50 - 150 pieces. I've never used more than a teaspoon, which dissolves instantly on contact.

That looks like you dumped in half a bottle, did not agitate or rinse. Of course looks can be deceiving so I could be wrong.
Yes I used to much...more like a couple spoonfuls. And rinsing was not thorough enough. Most were not a bad as this one.

[runfiverun]

when pin tumbling I use a hand measured half tsp of the lemi-shine and a glop of car wash.
any more is a waste.
when just agitation washing them [mainly to get all the dirt and junk out of the cases from ground found brass] I use a tsp to a gallon but still keep the soap down to a minimum.

rinsing is optional but I do sling the cases around to get all the excess water out of them and either set them near a fan or leave them sit on an old tee shirt to dry.

[JWFilips]

I heat a quart of water with a heaping teaspoon Citric acid & a squirt of Dawn in it : when it gets close to a boil I pour it over the brass in a 5 gallon plastic bucket and agitate the cra-p out of it with a wooden spoon 3 minutes. Fish them out and rise in some baking soda water (Teaspoon) rinse again & dry..... Re-bottle the Citric acid solution to be used about 3 more times!
When dry I vibrate tumble in Walnut for 3 to 4 hours
Just What I do Works Great!

[62chevy]

I heat a quart of water with a heaping teaspoon Citric acid & a squirt of Dawn in it : when it gets close to a boil I pour it over the brass in a 5 gallon plastic bucket and agitate the cra-p out of it with a wooden spoon 3 minutes. Fish them out and rise in some baking soda water (Teaspoon) rinse again & dry..... Re-bottle the Citric acid solution to be used about 3 more times!
When dry I vibrate tumble in Walnut for 3 to 4 hours
Just What I do Works Great!

I do the same in much smaller batches but if I had the space for a rotary tumbler It would be mine.

[RogerDat]

I rinse the brass in a bucket of water then dump the brass in about a double handful into a pocket made in the center of a large towel then roll the towel around it and spin the towel. Sort of like your spinning the towel into a bar to snap someone with the towel. That spins out the water from inside and most of the water off the brass, then they dry in front of a fan very quickly.

I don't get those bluish white streaks shown in the picture, I use part of a teaspoon in a few gallons of water to clean a few batches of range pickups that look very dark to almost black with that fairly diluted solution. I do mix warm, but will use cold the next day. Don't store solution for more than a few days but then I do stuff in batches. Don't need to waste the space to save less than a spoonful of CA.

Do add another part spoonful if I do more than a couple of batches in the same bucket. I add any "refresher" CA along with a tea kettle of boiling water. Helps the added CA dissolve and I would rather deal with warm than freezing cold water, dries faster too. It is cold out in the garage this time of year.

I follow by an hour in vibrator with crushed walnut shells that are occasionally dampened with a smidge of mineral spirits and some nu-shine. I find the walnut shells from the pet store are a bit more aggressive than corn cob at cleaning old range brass or dirty brass. The corn cob tends to do a bit more shine to the polish.

[Wheeljack]

I didn't read all the reply's, so if it wasn't mentioned, I get Citric Acid in the canning section of a food market. I get the Ball brand.

[62chevy]

I didn't read all the reply's, so if it wasn't mentioned, I get Citric Acid in the canning section of a food market. I get the Ball brand.

Yes it has been mentioned but bears repeating as that is where I get mine too.

[dudel]

I didn't read all the reply's, so if it wasn't mentioned, I get Citric Acid in the canning section of a food market. I get the Ball brand.

Same here. $3/bottle at Walmart.

[farmerjim]

If you use very much of it, you can get it in bulk for around $2 per pound. Amazon has it.

[umwminer]

I've used phosporic acid just as you describe for many years with equal results . Thanks !

[Kevinkd]

I used to use Lyman tumbler. Tons of dust. Went to wet method, used vinegar, salt, dawn for 10 mins. Seemed ok, but tried the ca method and wow.. what a quick easy way to go. In Ontario, canada so ordered 3kg (about 6.6 pounds) for $30 shipped to my house. Lots for many many years.

I have a few of those large plastic protein containers laying around so I took 2 the same size. Put in 2 tablespoons (not heaping) in one container, put container in bathtub and turned on HOT water.. filled it 1/4 the way up. Dumped in ALOT of 38 spcl brass , filled with more water until about 3/4 full. Put on lid, rolled around for about 5 mins. I have a second container LID that I drilled a bunch of small holes in. I put it on the water filled one, and just rolled it in tub to let out dirty water. Unscrew lid, fill with water (start to rinse), repeat a few times. In 10 mins 20-25 lbs of brass cleaned. WOW. Poured them onto large towel to dry. Repeated with lots more 38 and 45 brass.

My new favorite fast method to clean brass. Thanks a million!!