Load data for .40 BTS bullets

[DukeInFlorida]

Maybe we can put this data, as it develops, in one place, so that it's easier to find. Maybe even make it a sticky.

My initial testing of the .40 S&W bullet made from a 9mm case, indicated high pressure, and low velocity:

I used 3.7 grains of Titegroup with the 187 grain bullets. I'm thinking that this is too fast a powder for this job. The pressure was high, the velocity was slow and disappointing.

So, please post your results, and loads, for the .40 S&W bullet from 9mm case ONLY.

[richbug]

If you are collecting this data... Seating depth and bullet length are everything. Everyone's technique will be different resulting in different length bullets.

[BT Sniper]

I'm going to do a bit of cut and paste try and condence all the loads scattered over the board see if we can get some good info posted here. Please feel free to add to or correct any info I may find and post here. Did some testing of my own and have some loads to add. I'll leave the post author blanck should they wish to jump in and take credit they can.

Please use as referance only of course. Standard reloading precautions apply here. Make sure the data is for 10mm or 40 S&W as well.

Second thought I'll give the ones that have posted load data a chance to find it and paste first if they like. Save me a bit of time searching.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Ok a bit of load data from me. Finally got a chance to get a way and do a bit of shooting.
Shooting my BTS 185 grain (193 with pure lead cores) 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass threw my EAA 40 S&W witness pistol. Tested W-231 and Hodgen HS-6 powders with various brass and CCI small pistol primmers. COL was around 1.115.

What I found was that these bullet need to move a bit to stabilize. I found very slight keyholes in loads that where less then 850 FPS. Only enough to show a slight tare upward and slightly right rather then a perfect round hole. First time I have ever seen this with bullets though I am very fimilar with it when tuning a bow. I know another shooter here posted similar results. Maybe he'll chime in. All loads 850 or more showed perfect holes and better accuracy.

I was not really shooting for accuracy yet, just looking at FPS and getting fimilar with my new pistol. I did get a pretty good idea for potential accuracy and found with my limited testing today that about 950fps was when the bullets started to show their potential. Didn't get much over 1000 fps and not sure I would really need to or want to from the 40S&W.

I used what powder I had and could find localy for now.

W-231
4.3 grains = 835 FPS 3 out 5 shots with slight key holing
4.7 grains = 905 fps 1 out of 5 had slight key hole
5.1 grains = 950 fps with very small ES potential for accuracy
5.5 grains = 1000 fps with again pretty good ES and possible accuracy

HS-6
6.0 grains = 900 fps
6.5 grains = 950 fps again at this FPS accuracy seemed like a good possiblity

That was as far as I got today.

More to come.

Good shooting,

Swage On!

BT

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've posted this several other places, but it should be here too.

my pet Load for the BTBJHP 193 gr. in 40 S&W is 6.1 gr. of AA #5

Approach any other loads for 40 S&W with caution !
since 1/3 of the bullet weight is brass which is much
lighter then Lead, it makes these bullets longer.
So when seating them to the Max. SAAMI OAL=1.135"
the case capacity is limited, Most starting charges for
other powders will be a compressed charge or dang close to it.
which could cause pressure issues.
Jon

PS. If someone is test shooting these in a Glock, and loading them from used brass of unknown history, whereas the possibly of it having been previously shot from a Glock, Be advised, that the potential "Glock Bulge" should be removed before sizing. Of course this is a given, but I believe it is even more important with these longer projectiles and possible high pressure issues.

[a.squibload]

5.5 grains = 1000 fps with again pretty good ES and possible accuracy...

BT

I can't think of what "ES" is?

Of course I don't have any of these 3 powders, will see if I have something similar.

Also re: COL or OAL, if SAAMI max is 1.135 maybe I'll keep 'em 1.130 or less to start.
I'm used to 44 revolver, usually any boolit seated at crimp groove will fit!

Thanks...A.

[Artful]

ES extreame spread (highest and lowest velocity differential)

exmple would be, good ES is 7 with 1001 being slowest and 1008 being fastest chrono'd loads.

example would be bad ES= 819 -slowest 289 fps and Highest 1108 fps with same load (and yes it can be done was trying 308 subsonic load out.)

[a.squibload]

Dang, that IS bad. I'm guessing case was not full of powder?

I'll have to get some AA#5, think it would be good for a lighter boolit too?
I like heavy boolits but heard that a little lighter (and faster) is where the 40 shines.
Might end up cutting brass and using a smaller core. Lee molds are not expensive after all.

PS: THANKS to guys with chronos (BT), helps to have confirmation of suspected velocities!
(Usually I'm just guessing/extrapolating from the load data charts.)

[sargenv]

Ok, I discovered recently that I need to bump my Standard USPSA load just a tad.. Here is what I have been loading lately with my 9mm into 40 cal bullets..

Para Ordnance 5" Bushing barrel

Winchester 40 S&W Brass
Remington Small Pistol Primers
~192 gr bullets (as high as 194, as low as 189 or so)
4.1 gr of Accurate Solo 1000

This gives me an average velocity of about 813 fps which translates to about a 156 (needs to be at least 165.0 for major) power factor.. meaning I need to bump it up a bit (going to try going up .3 gr and re-chrono). I load these long, 1.220". Seems my Para doesn't like them 1.260" like I thought.. my Revolver didn't seem to care. I don't have velocity data from either of my 610's.. 3 7/8" or 6.5". No pressure signs and A zone accurate to at least 30 yards.. Have not gotten any farther back yet.

[sargenv]

So I bumped my load to 4.4 of Solo 1000 and it didn't bump it all that much.. I think I was getting another 15-20 fps at the most.. I'm starting to wonder if I'm getting gas blow by... they shoot ok for me, no tumbling, I just can't seem to get them above 875 in my Para P16.. I tried again today with 4.6 of SR 7625.. it was even more disappointing.. avg of 760!! I think I need to bump it up another .5-.8 gr in increments and see where I get.. also going to try Power Pistol since I have an ample supply of that slower burner.. so we will see tomorrow... going to try a few things... I was able to make major before, but I was using like 8 gr of Longshot.. and boy was it snappy..

[BT Sniper]

Keep us posted. I'm sure you will find somthing that will easily get you above needed FPS. Only question I'm sure is how will it "feel" in you gun. As you know I have certainly been able to obtain 1K with these bullets but I do not compete yet so can't say much for the effective use of these loads in comp.

Good shooting

BT

[richbug]

Keep us posted. I'm sure you will find somthing that will easily get you above needed FPS. Only question I'm sure is how will it "feel" in you gun. As you know I have certainly been able to obtain 1K with these bullets but I do not compete yet so can't say much for the effective use of these loads in comp.

Good shooting

BT


DO you have a picture of your primers with the 5.5 grs 231 load? I suspect you are approaching or at proof loads. The TZ design would handle it fine, but don't be surprised if you break the slide stop pin on occasion(been there, done that with 9x21 major loads). That load in a lesser pistol, with less support, is going to blow out at the ramp.


I made some major loads using Bullseye with 193s, but am hesitant to put the charge weight on the web. these were at 1.23"

My next stop it to try some longshot at normal lengths to fit Ruger and Glock mags.

[sargenv]

Ok, so here is the data as it stands now.. I don’t know if this is kosher but I will tell you what my results are. All of the rounds were seated to 1.220”. Weight of the bullets is a nominal 193 gr. Tolerance is + or – 2 gr. All primers were Remington Standard Smal lpistol primers. Brass was Winchester 40 S&W once fired. I tried two powders and three firearms. A S&W 610 3 7/8 that has had maybe 1000 rounds through it. A S&W 610 – 6.5” that likely has about 100,000 rounds through it, and a Para P16 – 5” that has about 40,000 rounds through it.. I did not fire from groups since I was looking for an average that would put me into “USPSA Major” territory, which for a 193 gr bullet is right about 855 fps. I also experienced some oddness.. the 3 7/8” gun had higher velocities than the other longer barreled guns for the first powder, but not the second. Here are the averages as I got them. At least now I have some guide to go by. Also, none of the cases showed any type of pressure signs, no flattened primers and they all felt fine. Your milage may vary, but this is the data I have for my experiences. Mean temp was sunny and mid 70's, ammo was kept in the shade until fired. Revolvers used average of 5 rounds each, the Para was an average of at least 7 rounds (some readings by the chrono were incorrect). I now have an idea of what to load for tomorrow and what I can try next.

SR 7625

4.8 SR 7625 – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 843 fps
4.8 SR 7625 – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 826 fps
4.8 SR 7625 – Para P16 – 5” – avg 796 fps

5.0 SR 7625 – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 838 fps
5.0 SR 7625 – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg 823 fps
5.0 SR 7625 – Para P16 – 5” – avg 820 fps

5.2 SR 7625 – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 874 fps
5.2 SR 7625 – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 866 fps
5.2 SR 7625 – Para P16 – 5” – avg 863 fps

5.4 SR 7625 – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 912 fps
5.4 SR 7625 – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 906 fps
5.4 SR 7625 – Para P16 – 5” – avg 904 fps

5.6 SR 7625 – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 938 fps
5.6 SR 7625 – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg 914 fps
5.6 SR 7625 – Para P16 – 5” – avg 922 fps

Power Pistol

4.8 Power Pistol – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 704 fps
4.8 Power Pistol – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 701 fps
4.8 Power Pistol – Para P16 – 5” – avg 717 fps

5.0 Power Pistol – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 793 fps
5.0 Power Pistol – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 771 fps
5.0 Power Pistol – Para P16 – 5” – avg 780 fps

5.2 Power Pistol – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 802 fps
5.2 Power Pistol – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 814 fps
5.2 Power Pistol – Para P16 – 5” – avg 817 fps

5.4 Power Pistol – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 846 fps
5.4 Power Pistol – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 853 fps
5.4 Power Pistol – Para P16 – 5” – avg 848 fps

5.6 Power Pistol – S&W 610 – 3 7/8” – avg 897 fps
5.6 Power Pistol – S&W 610 –6.5” – avg = 902 fps
5.6 Power Pistol – Para P16 – 5” – avg 892 fps

[richbug]

A S&W 610 – 6.5” that likely has about 100,000 rounds through it,

Not to totally hijack the thread... Are the bolt notches in your cylinder hammered out badly? Mine only has 25,000 or so through it and they look ugly.

[sargenv]

Nope.. they still look pretty good.. it's a -2 model with the non fluted cylinder.. I've had it since the -2's were available from S&W.. the shorter model is a -3 model.

[richbug]

Nope.. they still look pretty good.. it's a -2 model with the non fluted cylinder.. I've had it since the -2's were available from S&W.. the shorter model is a -3 model.

Mine is the 610-2 "CLASSIC", un-fluted, 6.5", the serial starts with CED IIRC, I bought it new about 7-8ish years ago. It had a bent center pin and a missing double action sear spring(S&W sent me the spring, and I straightened the pin), the dealer hadn't bothered to send it back. I bought it "really right", because no one wanted to buy a busted new gun. At the time the 610s were discontinued and this was the only one within 100 miles for sale.


All I can figure is I somehow accelerate into my trigger pull when in DA.

[sargenv]

That is possible.. I thought that the peening that was happening from the loads might be cause for concern, but I have a friend, a fellow action shooter who dry fired the hell out of his first 625 to the point that internal pivot points simply wore out. I figure he'd probably dry fired it more than live fired it by at least a factor of 3 if not more than that. He is a GM level USPSA Revolver shooter.. so it's not surprising that he wore that poor thing out..

His usual practice routine was fire 400 rounds of draws to targets, reloads, and a few other drills, then shoot the practice stage we have on saturdays about 4 or 5 times and then call it quits.. He has a very smooth reload that is not as fast as Jerry Miculek, but easily in the 1.5 second range or better. If I were only that dedicated.. :)

I too have the 610-2 Classic as my main USPSA revolver.. I picked up a 3 7/8" and 6.5" -3 models last year in anticipation of eventually retiring the -2.. though it has a very smooth 6 pound pull in DA and it is DAO tuned..

[sargenv]

Now that I have recently made up about 2k of these.. I can start load testing again.. with Duck season, I'll be restricted to going to the range mid-week.. then there is the time needed to load the actual ammo.. but I hope to get more load data in the interest of finding the right major power factor load for shooting USPSA with my 5" Para that isn't so snappy that it is hard to control a second shot.. A big Thank You to Brian for getting an ejector to me.. that improved my output from 13 per min to about 22 per min.

[BT Sniper]

An old thread but some good data for anyone loading the 40 S&W with bullets made from 9mm brass. Had someone asking about it latly so thought I would bump it up from the dead :)

This data is all from bullets made in the CH dies. For those of you shooting my custom BTSniper 40 cal bullets with the round short nose you will have to do some testing of your own as there could be a bit of a difference between the two bullets. I'll post some more data when I get out to shoot again. Always so busy making dies so you guys can shoot :)

Of course use standard reloading precautions.

BT

[Fla9-40]

Was wondering if this was around, Hope to add to it soon when I get my dies! :wink:

[Rusty Goose]

Hello from new member to this forum.

I have been loading some of BTS's .40 bullets with 4.8 gr of Bullseye. It seems max volume of powder w/out packing. I can't find my chrono data right now, but it is a reliable load in my BHP Practical.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Rusty,
what is your bullet weight ?
Jon

[Rusty Goose]

I'll have to check to make sure, I believe 168 gr. At least that is what sticks in my head (along with a Johnny Cash song I can't seem to shake).

[sargenv]

I'd forgotten that I'd posted this.. time flies when you are busy.. ;)

[anotherred]

I've been messing around with W231/WSP primers and still looking for the perfect load. I was just wondering what others are finding for a good combo.

[mdenz3]

When loading these to a COL of 1.13 I'm getting some bulge of the case, is this normal?

[BT Sniper]

Check the case to make sure it chambers as it should. Never force you slide shut and attempt to fire a round. If it gives you troubles chambering teh loaded round look into the lee Factory crimp die.

A little buldge is OK as long as it chambers and ejects without issue. When the buldge is too big that it won't chamber then the Lee FCD hosuld take care of any issues. Still keep the bullets loaded as long as possible to function in your mag.


Here is an example of some extreem buldges to watch out for. The top right one might be OK after it passes threw the FCD but teh other two are pretty extreem and should be used with caution if at all.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/DSCF0219.jpg


BT

[mdenz3]

They seem to chamber just fine, in my Zastava EZ40 it tends to give feed troubles if the COL gets much above 1.14

[kavemankel]

I think that I am going to try and get some of these going. I love the concept and have access to oodles of 9mm brass. I love my 40 and what it can do. Faster and lighter is like a 9mm on steiroids and heavy and slower reminds me of .45acp.

I have a pet load. It is 8.3gr AA#7 with a 180 gr RAN HP chrony at 970 +-15fps.
Have photos to confirm it will kill a very large boar 375lbs at 25 yards. Shot went through two inch scar plate, through all vitals and lodged under left side scar plate. I was impressed. although it was the second swine I had shot with that load. First one was just under 200 and It went through and through with a very impressive wound channel.

[leas327]

Made my first 40 from 9 bullets. I have made a few hundred so far. They avereage 184/185 ish. I loaded 40 random ones into 40 random cases. I had a chance to chrono them today and do an informal group. It was a windy 18 degrees today so the testing was short.

The gun is a Glock 35.

The load

Mix brass
4.2 gr Bullseye
Federal small rifle primers (its what I can get)
1.135 OAL
My bullet is a improved CH die that makes bullets .700 long

10 shots over chrono

853
866
873
846
869
851
853
868
857
787!!!!!

The chrono had an error after that so I am not so sure about the last shot.

787 low
873 hi
852 average

5 shot group of another 5 random at 15 yards. Group measured .960 center to center when I measured it.

61565

[BT Sniper]

Good shooting!

Thanks for posting yoru results and pics.

BT

[MOcaster]

Just finished up loading and testing three different weight bullets with three different powders. The test gun was a Glock G22 with a Storm Lake match grade barrel. Hodgdon Titegroup, Wichester WST, and Accurate No. 7 were the test powders. All bullets were loaded to 1.135 inches. I am not responsible for any injuries of damage caused from bad reloading practices. Work up your own loads for safety. This is just a very basic reference.

Bullet weight: 170 grains

Powder: Titegroup
Starting load*: 3.3 grains
MAX load: 3.5 grains

Powder: WST
Starting load*: 3.3 grains
MAX load: 3.5 grains

Powder: No. 7
Starting load*: 5.6 grains
MAX load: 6.1 grains


Bullet weight: 178 grains

Powder: Titegroup
Starting load*: 3.1 grains
MAX load: 3.3 grains

Powder: WST
Starting load*: 3.2 grains
MAX load: 3.4 grains

Powder: No. 7
Starting load*: 5.5 grains
MAX load: 5.9 grains


Bullet weight: 190

Powder: Titegroup
Starting load*: 2.5 grains
MAX load: 3.1 grains

Note: 190 grain bullets would only cycle at safe pressures with Titegroup.

*Starting load was determined by the lightest load my gun would cycle with. This will vary from gun to gun.

Unfortunately, I do not have a chronograph, so I cannot provide velocity. Again, these are just my findings. Work up your own loads for safety.

[anotherred]

Its been awhile since this has been discussed, so I figured I'd bring it back for those that will be getting dies soon. Like any bullet work up a load and don't depend on the data here to keep you safe. When I make the 9s into 40 bullets I don't anneal the brass. This will make a difference in loads so use this info accordingly.
Today I wanted play with loads again with W231 and started at 4.5 and worked up the 5gr. 4.5 didn't really show much for primer flattening and the 5grs defiantly is getting hot. When the weather is a little more favorable I'll be accuracy testing the 4.5 to 4.7 loads.
Stay safe and enjoy plinking for rimfire prices.