Got a good 8x56mm deal.

[Mike Venturino]

I got a good deal this week. A super clean Budapest marked 8x56mm carbine but that was just icing on the cake. It came with 650 grounds of 1939 Nazi marked ammunition, in the five round Nazi marked clips, in the Nazi marked cardboard 10 round boxes and still in the wooden Nazi marked crate it was originally packed in.

When the mud dries from 8 days of snow to one degree or the other (flurries to six inches at a dump) I'll be able to get to my range and give it a try.

I've got Lee dies, shell holder and mould ordered and on the way and Prvi brass too.

MLV

[StarMetal]

Way to go Mike. Be warned that Nazi ammo is pretty hot stuff and that little carbine will have some bite.

Joe

[Mike Venturino]

So the previous owner told me. I'll probably only shoot enough of the Nazi ammo to set a standard and get a few of the clips freed up for the brass I have coming.

MLV

[herbert buckland]

even in the rifles that natzi amo lets you know what is going on ,but is very acurate in my rifle

[milsurp mike]

I would sell the Ammo and get setup for casting for this rifle. For what the ammo will bring you can also buy another Rifle.I have seen this Ammo sell for $1 Per Round.Mike

[WILCO]

I got a good deal this week.

That's great Mike!!! I've always wanted a 8x56mm. Will get it done as soon as I'm registered as a National Milsurp Refuge. Keep us posted.

[Buckshot]

..............Mike, glad to see you posting again so I'll assume all the medical issues are now long gone.

I've got Lee dies, shell holder and mould ordered and on the way and Prvi brass too.

If the 'mould' you've ordered is the Lee C329-205-1R it MIGHT be useable. I have 4 of those carbines and have read about umpteen others and do not recall ever hearing about one having a .329" groove. They all seem to run from .330" to .334". The bores however appear to be pretty consistent at .314"/.315". Since the barrel form is about 50/50 there is a considerable amount of lead being moved around when the slug engraves, so a slightly small slug may upset enough into the grooves to seal.

I've had the best luck using .338" slugs in my M95's. I have the Lee C338-220-1R and the RCBS 33-205 and after lube-sizing to .338" I run them up through a ho-made .334" push through die. In addition to the usual generous groove depths, my M95's will easily chamber a loaded round with a full .338" slug seated, and the throat will also pass it without issue.

As the others have mentioned, the little carbines are joyfull to shoot :-) Consider, a 205gr P-BT at 2300 fps from that short 19.5" bbl.

http://www.fototime.com/A13422269DE91E3/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CBEAAE5A40D244A/standard.jpg

This is the 1st M95 I bought (for $39) had a toasted barrel so I converted it to 30-40 Krag. No bolt modifications and only 2 very simple 'fixes' to the clips and it feeds, fires, extracts and ejects like it was made for it. There are no flies on the action, and with a modern 30 caliber barrel having normal measurements it's nicely accurate. However, the trigger IMHO is worse then that on a M91 Mosin-Nagant.

http://www.fototime.com/F2618D4764522E3/standard.jpg

This is the action open and a clip load of 30-40's in place. The 2 pink lines on the clip lips show where they have to be slightly bent inward to cause the narrower Krag rounds to ride lower. With this simple mod they present perfectly to feed into the chamber.

http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpg

These are the 4 cast boolit designs I've used. A is a Saeco limited production tapered 205gr FNPB # 352 that drops from the mould at .336" on the base band. B is the Lee C338-220-1R C is the RCBS 33-205, and D is a slug one of the members here had Dan at Mountain Moulds make when he was still making full custom designs. These are the ONLY boolits that have given any worthwhile accuracy. The plain based Saeco is actually not bad held to 1400 fps.

http://www.fototime.com/00C73BAA827D746/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/749F5ACFFD11D67/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6FF4D290178743E/standard.jpg

The above is my one all matching M95 Steyr, and it's a very nice carbine. It has a bright shiney barrel, the action is slick, the trigger sucks channel water and it shares those wierd chamber/barrel measurements.

I'm sure your new M95 Straight pull will be a gas also, and provide much entertainment. BTW, one other of my M95's will be converted to 40-60 Maynard. That way I can use 30-40 Krag brass. A buddy of mine has the reamer. All I have to do now is live long enough to get around to it!

..............Buckshot

[Dutchman]

and get a few of the clips freed up for the brass I have coming.


Ok, I've got $10 says he'll have no more than 3 empty clips :D

Who wants 1 clip, 2 clips and 4 clips? No way he'll make it to 5 clips, way too long odds.
Two empty clips is the odds on favorite.

(He may shoot 4 clips just so I loose but he'll be mumbling to himself afterward)


Buckshot - that's one nice job you did with that carbine. I hear there's going to be another one of those carbines for sale with 640 rds of milsurp ammo..... soon.

Dutch

[Bret4207]

Mike the NEI 330-245-GC works best for me. Mine drops around .333 and Walt made it. No idea if the new guy is capable of cutting any mould even close to correctly, but maybe having a big time gun writer on his case would get some good work outta him.

[Mike Venturino]

If the Lee mould doesn't work then at least it didn't cost much. I'll give it a try and see before worrying about measuring anything. Wouldn't you know it, I had the RCBS .33 Winchester bullet mould around here for nearly 25 years and just sold it in '09.

Dutchman, you just have no faith in me. If I need more clips than my shoulder can handle I'll just con some of my friends into trying the little carbine. They'll be macho enough to shoot a few rounds each. Am I clever or what?

By the way all the numbers match on the little thing.

MLV

[smlekid]

I'd just take the loaded rounds out of the clips a friend of mine gave me full clip to shoot out of his carbine (at least I thought he was a friend) I gave it back after 3 shots!!!! man they bite

[StarMetal]

The best bullet/mold for that rifle is the one Oldfeller designed. It has been re-cut by BaBore. The best cheapest mold is the Lee 338.

[autofix4u]

I put 2 clips through One of those a couple of weeks ago. Not to bad, It will quit hurting sometime this month. Edbarret talked me in to shooting some of his jacketed loads....... I think he just wanted the brass back! ;)

[BABore]

Here's a link to the Old Feller's Frankenstein mold remake I did.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60253&highlight=Oldfeller%27s+Frankenstein&page=3

IIRC I still have the 1C test mold for this if you need any sample boolits.

[leadman]

I fired some of the Nazi marked ammo leaning on the hood of my truck. It would lift me clean off the hood!
Way more recoil than my Ruger 300 Win mag.

Had quite a few cases split at the neck. You could pull the bullets and use them in reloads.

I sold it not too long after I bought it. That was about 10 years ago and boxer brass was not very common.

[StarMetal]

I thought the Nazi ammo had some punch to it, but really feel it was the light weight of the M95 and it's steel buttplate that made it's bite worse then it's bark. I will say too that Nazi ammo was some dang good stuff. Mine was manufactured in 1938 and I pulled some bullets out and the cases were as shiny as could be inside and powder of course in mint condition. I chronographed some of it and it was like in the 2700 fps bracket!!!! That's pretty hot for 207 grain bullet from a 19.5 inch barrel!!

[Buckshot]

I thought the Nazi ammo had some punch to it, but really feel it was the light weight of the M95 and it's steel buttplate that made it's bite worse then it's bark. I will say too that Nazi ammo was some dang good stuff. Mine was manufactured in 1938 and I pulled some bullets out and the cases were as shiny as could be inside and powder of course in mint condition. I chronographed some of it and it was like in the 2700 fps bracket!!!! That's pretty hot for 207 grain bullet from a 19.5 inch barrel!!

...............Joe, something wrong with 2700 fps as that is well beyond spec for the cartridge. They should run 2250 to 2350 fps, and that's assuming a good run of the mill batch of rifles in good / V-good issued/used condition. Take a look at 200gr slugs in the 30-'06 and see what they're doing pressure and velocity wise from a 22 to 24" bbl. Getting 2300 fps from one of those M95's is pretty snappy performance by any measure, but 2700 fps leads me to believe your chronograph was needing to see a shrink, or you had some ammo that was beginning to turn the corner.

..............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

...............Joe, something wrong with 2700 fps as that is well beyond spec for the cartridge. They should run 2250 to 2350 fps, and that's assuming a good run of the mill batch of rifles in good / V-good issued/used condition. Take a look at 200gr slugs in the 30-'06 and see what they're doing pressure and velocity wise from a 22 to 24" bbl. Getting 2300 fps from one of those M95's is pretty snappy performance by any measure, but 2700 fps leads me to believe your chronograph was needing to see a shrink, or you had some ammo that was beginning to turn the corner.

..............Buckshot

Rick,

It may have been the chrono, but I know I chronographed that Nazi ammo to see what it ran so I could load some Hornady jacketed I had for it as the Hornady bullet was close in weight at 210 grains. I chose a load and kept working it up watching for pressure signs till I got close to the Nazi ammo and quit. I don't have that same chrono now, but I remember it seemed right with other firearms and loads. I sold the rifle but have one clip of the Nazi ammo left, or I'd try it on my new chrono. I wonder myself about it. Wonder if it was possible I had hot Nazi ammo that may have gotten that way from deteriorating? You know those rifles have some pretty stout locking lugs on the bolt, you and I talked about that one time or another.

[JeffinNZ]

I came upon a lovely specimen at an auction here a year ago. The exterior was mint. The bore looked like a sewer pipe. Probably best to clean after corrisive ammo ah? (eye roll). I didn't buy it.

[Buckshot]

...........In a narrative by Ernest Hemingway done when he was in Spain during the Spanish Civil war, the group he was with was rumored to be getting some M95's from somewhere or the other. One of the troops was disgusted with the idea and wondered why in heck they were being issued as, "You can't hit a d***ed thing with'em", or words pretty much the same.:-)

...............Buckshot

[roverboy]

I've kinda put off getting one of these because of the ammo is a little scarce. I'm kinda looking more interested now.

[JeffinNZ]

I've kinda put off getting one of these because of the ammo is a little scarce.

Didn't stop me buying and shooting a Carcano!

[roverboy]

Oh I would buy a good Carcano if I could find a decent one at a good price. I like'm in 6.5x52. I've found several Model 38 carbines in 7.35 but they've all been "sportered".

[Buckshot]

..............ALL components for the 8x56R is available from Graf & Son, as is ammo loaded by Hornady. Lee makes dies. Its no harder to load/reload then any other cartridge these days.

................Buckshot

[zuke]

I had one I was going to reload for but after looking at the cost of boxer brass and the hassle of it all I went to a Ross Rifle in .303.
I reload for it anway's so it wasn't a big transition.

[StarMetal]

Buckshot,

So I don't look foolish and we all think my chronograph was wrong, this is the military ammo specs:

8x56R Hungarian Cartridge - German Surplus


Bullet Type 209gr FMJ Spitz. (.329) Case - VIII / 19 / 38 / Nazi Eagle Brass - 2.190 Trim Primer Berdan Cartridge Overall Length 3.003 Inches


Powder Charge (gr) MV (ft/s) Std Dev (ft/s) ME (ft-lbs) Comments 0.0gr 2631 35.3 3213 None




That's from here:
http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/8x56r/surp.html

I've done some researching and indeed lots of other shooters, we're talking jacketed with various bullets, that is the Graf's correct bullets and 338 sized down (like I did) indeed are getting higher velocities they you quoted. I got my reloading record manual out and looked up what I did. I did record the Hornady loads I told you I worked up and they were indeed just slightly lower then the milsurp stuff at 2600 fps. Unfortunately I didn't record the milsurp velocities. At this point I'll say my chronograph was correct and no malfunctioning. It also could have been my lot of milsurp was particulary hot for some reason.

[Buckshot]

.................I've shot a ton of that stuff as at the time I bought my first M95 from Century they that ammo cheap. I've chrono'd a few groups and they all hovered around 2300 fps, and I'd suspect that would be about the design ballistics for the cartridge. I've only hand disassembled a couple of the rounds, and they were out of the same box. As I recall the bullets scaled 203 grains and were FMJ spitzer boattails of very modern design.

All I'm suggesting is that 2700 fps for a 200 gr slug from the 19.5" barrel of a M95 is without a doubt producing pressures well beyond what anyone would suggest for that rifle or cartridge. Saami doesn't list the 8x56R and I don't know if it has European CIP specs, however check data listed for most any full power military cartridge, especially the 7.62x54R which is close in volumn for comparable ballistics/pressures.

That site you listed is just 'some guy', same as you and me and just like us completely lacking a ballistics lab. I seriously doubt that what he listed is "......... the military ammo specs:" rather it's: "This is what I got". Without looking I'm pretty sure the 30-'06 with a 180gr slug is good for just over 2700 fps, let alone a 200gr slug and that'd be from a 22" barrel most likely. Since Hornady loads the 8x56R I'd wonder what they load theirs to?

................Buckshot

[closey]

I ran these rounds over the chrono yesterday, an average velocity from 5 rounds over my chrono was 2,511fps in a M95 rifle.

Can anyone ID the country/manufacturer for me?

Cheers,

Closey


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/joseyclosey/ammo/SteyerM95017.jpg

[Tedly]

Closey,
Your ammo is Bulgarian. You stated 2511 from a RIFLE , right ? Not a carbine...All my chrono of the M30 Austrian 1938 Nazi ball through a carbine has averaged @ 2396 ...Hornady quotes their sporting ammo @ 2410 and the Privi is quoted from their website @ 700 meters per second , very close. I handload this with the Graf/Hornady bullet to 2350 fps and I'm done. That is my top end load. I've also got lesser loads that shoot as well or better for paper punching . I am going to start shooting cast in this rig cause I don't need the beating except for hunting . My .02...Tedly

[closey]

Thanks Tedly, and yes i did shoot it through the M95 rifle not the carbine.

Closey

I also got this extra info via gunboards...

"Bulgarian headstamp style: Lion,/41/B-phi/19/ B-phi is cyrillic for "VF"..Voenni Fabrika== Military Factory ( Khazanlak factory, newly-built after WW I to replace Sofia Arsenal ("CA").

It was pulled from a string on Gunboards. Doc. A V.

[Hogpost]

Star Metal, I think you are right about the carbine weight. I have the long rifle with 30+" barrel, and it's a mild sweetheart with Nazi or Hornady ammo. The long barrel also helps accuracy (sight radius) and velocity: mine's very nice at 300 yds for mil sights.

Bullets: try Schroeder Bullets 619-423-3523 in San Diego. He swages copper jacketted in various weights for the 8 x 56R .329 bore, about $34/100. Small & honest local guy specializing in oddballs.