.41 Caliber Gang Mold? [Archive]

felix

05-06-2005, 11:15 AM

Yes, I have been thinking of a mold. I have already designed one which I think will work perfectly in a Marlin cowboy lever gun. As far as I know, the Marlin folks have not altered their origonal specs for this caliber. It is, and was, a micro groove gun from the very beginning. This means oversided, gaschecked boolits, with a total throat length of 0.205 for 0.413 boolits. ... felix

felix

05-06-2005, 11:45 AM

http://www.hunt101.com/img/282844.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=282844&c=500&z=1)

Cayoot

05-06-2005, 09:38 PM

.41 MAG!?!?!?! DID SOMEONE SAY .41 MAG GANG MOLD!?!?!?!?!? COUNT ME IN!!!!!!!

I already have a Saeco 4 holer in 220 grn SWC so I would really like to find something around 250 grn WFN. But what ever...as long as it's not another 220 (or 215) Count me in!!!! Who do I send my money to?

Bodydoc447

05-07-2005, 10:05 AM

Felix,

Would that lovely bullet of yours also fit the throats of my Blackhawks? Seems that it might be a bit tight.

Bodydoc447

felix

05-07-2005, 10:25 AM

Yeah, that is a problem with having small lube grooves. When you size down a bigger boolit, the grooves can collapse, unless you pan lube the boolits first. The lube will prevent the grooves from folding up. However, the 41 mag in a pistol will not shoot fast enough to warrent a gas checked design, and the lands will be high enough to prevent heavy duty stripping. Not so in a Marlin, so we do need a special boolit to compensate for the additional speed and have the ability to help regulate lube quantity/quality as not to allow lube buildup in those shallow lands. ... felix

Cayoot

05-19-2005, 10:02 PM

So is this idea dead or what? I'm in for just about anything in .41 mag!

felix

05-19-2005, 10:58 PM

Not dead on my part, but it appears there are not too many of us who feel like this. Maybe only 5 shooters who would participate in a group buy for real, and those who might support us otherwise, just to make a number, would not make the whole deal kosher. It encourages a false hope. ... felix

Cayoot

05-19-2005, 11:09 PM

it appears there are not too many of us who feel like this. Maybe only 5 shooters who would participate in a group buy for real, and those who might support us otherwise, just to make a number, would not make the whole deal kosher. It encourages a false hope. ... felix

Dang! I was really excited for this one.

felix

05-19-2005, 11:38 PM

Cayoot

05-20-2005, 12:08 AM

I think at this time I am going to have Dan make up the boolit as shown in this thread. If it shoots as expected in a microgroove at full velocity as well as in a pistol at minor velocity, I will consider it a good design and let the board know. ... felix

Thanks Felix....I'm really interested in this. I'm a BIG fan of 41 maggie.

I'll be waiting with baited breath to hear what you think of this!

Bodydoc447

05-20-2005, 09:10 AM

When I started this thread, I was really looking for ideas for a .41 mag revolver design to make the gang molds up. I would be up for anything that would fit in my Blackhawks or M57s. The rifle bullet proposed is a really neat design and I am interested in its performance but honestly I don't shoot my Marlin Cowboy enough to justify a design for a microgroove boolit with getting in on three of the other group buys. Wasn't trying to be a tease, but rather as a relative newby here was looking to see what the degree of interest was in a .41 mag revolver boolit.

Tom

GregP42

09-06-2005, 06:21 PM

*chirp chirp* Wow crickets in here.

So, any thought of maybe a .41 that would work in both the Marlin and the Ruger? I have the Ruger and need a nice bullet for it, something in the 240 gr range I was thinking. And as soon as I have the extra cash I am going to pick up a Marlin to go with it. Can't beat a rifle and pistol in the same caliber. So, any more thought on this Felix? I know your picture is long gone now, but maybe we can stir something up.

Greg

Bodydoc447

09-06-2005, 08:55 PM

Sounds good to me! What design is favored that will work well in both revolvers and Marlin rifles? Would love to get one going. Took a long time to make a pile of 41032s on Saturday.

Doc

RugerFan

09-06-2005, 09:36 PM

I've got a pair of .41s that have been begging for a new bullet to throw down range. Depending on the actual specs, I am very interested.

felix

09-06-2005, 09:57 PM

Guys, I have not given up on the boolit we should all get. Problem is that I have not a firm nose design because the boolit will HAVE to work in the marlin microgroove first, revolter second. Why? Because the marlin (I have) requires a 0.2 length bearing nose at 0.413 diameter. At 0.411 diameter, the nose bearing has to be 0.245. The nose bearing length is where the ogive starts making the point on the boolit. This would make the boolit a WFN, requiring velocity to shoot. And, that would make the boolit require a check for all day shooting purposes. A check would not be desired for a revolter boolit because of the cost of an all day event. I have some different boolits coming for trials. ... felix

porkchop bob

09-07-2005, 09:26 AM

I have a S&W 657 41 Mag and have thoughts of getting a lever action rifle in that caliber. That's a lot to spend for just having FUN. Returning to the thread, if the goal is to be able to shoot the same shell in both, when you reach in your pocket for shells to reload, how will you know which has the gas check as you feed the rifle?

If you are using the same mold, every CB will have to have a gas check. Or will you use two molds, say RN for the pistol and Keith type SWC for the rifle?

There is another way to skin the cat. Look at the 38 SPL and 357 Mag. One case is longer. Shorten a few 41 Mag cases to create the same effect (41 Short). Then you could use the CB without the gas check in the 41 Short for the pistol and the gas checked CB in the 41 Mag cases for the rifle. The length of the 41 Short can be designed to work in your rifle. With the newer powders, the shorter case will hold all that is needed for confortable pistol shooting at ranges up to 75 to 100 yards. Think 45 GAP. Besides, look at the savings by not having to use that expensive and hard to find dacron fiber :-)

Bob

Bodydoc447

09-07-2005, 10:23 AM

I have no objection to using a gas check on the revolver loads, assuming the
GC shank is designed to fit the .416 GC by Hornady. An added expense to be sure but worth it for the versatility of being good in the rifle. OTOH, I have an older Marlin Cowboy Limited Edition which has cut rifling IIRC and not the current microgroove version.

I was thinking of getting the Saeco #418 220 SWC or the #415 TC, GC. Anyone have experience with these molds, good or bad?

Doc

Cayoot

09-10-2005, 10:20 AM

I agree, I am happy using gas checks in both revolvers and rifles.
I'm really glad to see this thread come back to life. [smilie=w: I'm anxious for a good heavy .41 bullet for both handguns and rifles.

Pretty much, any decent bullet design of 240 grns or heavier would be something I would add to my mold collection! Although I admit I would greatly prefer a gas check design.

Bodydoc447

09-10-2005, 10:46 AM

Let's put our collective minds together to come up with some needs and some "would like to see's"

Maybe:

Need 240+ weight
LBT or wide meplat FN
casts @ 0.413"

would like Gas Check design

I have a Taurus Tracker which is a dandy little revolver. BUT the cylinder is fairly short and so many cast bullet designs are too long, i.e. crimp to nose length. My S&W and Rugers have what I consider more or less standard length cylinders/chambers. So, maybe at the short end of the spectum wieght wise, a short crimp to nose length? Nah, most of us really would like a longer nose wouldn't we? Would make the design more versatile and would garner more interest, right? Just spitballing ideas....I'd love to have some more input on this from the forum.

Doc

Cayoot

09-10-2005, 11:02 AM

Buckshot

09-11-2005, 03:44 AM

............One thing to remember too guys. You don't HAVE to get 25 takers to get a mould done. The $100 setup fee will be charged, but broken up over however many mould you have done sure makes it easier to swallow.

If you only get 10 definate paying people, that only adds $10 each to the price of the mould, so it's $66 instead of $56.

HA! I'm NOT in the pay of Lee, but $66 or $76 (if you only get 5 takers) is still a good deal on a custom 6 cavity mould. I just hate to see some interested enthusiastic people miss out because they forget you don't HAVE to have 25 orders to commission a custom mould.

Consider what an LBT, NEI, or MM would cost for a 2 cavity and that kind of puts it into persective I think.

.................Buckshot

deerstalker

09-11-2005, 08:39 AM

I also have a Blackhawk and 657, would be interested in mold that could throw a 235grainer, big flat nose. As far as gas checks, I can do without them. Richard..

Bear4570

09-11-2005, 08:11 PM

I'm shooting a 250 gr LBT-GC heat treated from Cast Performance Bullet Co.
out of my Ruger Blackhawk at present and it is a nail driver at 75 yards. We were shooting plates out at 50-75 yards off hand today and it was just slamming them down. I'd be in for one of these fer sure and fer certain.

Also have an interest in a 6 cavity of the 210 gr Keith style.

Will keep an eye on this posting with great anticipation.

GregP42

09-11-2005, 09:23 PM

I think at this time I am going to have Dan make up the boolit as shown in this thread. If it shoots as expected in a microgroove at full velocity as well as in a pistol at minor velocity, I will consider it a good design and let the board know. ... felix

Felix,

So what was the outcome of this experiment? I have no problems with gas checks myself, means I can stuff some more H-110 behind it ;)

Greg

RugerFan

09-11-2005, 10:06 PM

I'm pretty open as to bullet weight and dimensions, but I would like a GC design. .413 sounds a bit wide as I'm sizing to .410 and .411. I've never had to shave off .003 before. Maybe it wouldn't pose a problem, I've just never been down that road.

Do we have a confirmed number of takers yet?

felix

09-11-2005, 10:28 PM

Bodydoc447

09-11-2005, 10:30 PM

We don't even know what we are all wanting yet. I get the feeling most would like a wide meplat FN, gas checked design weighing 240-250 on up. Casting at .412 is fine for me as I also size to .410, but it's easier to size down than up. I'd hafta listen to folks a lot smarter (just about everyone here) than me about what diameter to request. I'd be happy with this design. At some point I would also like a nice 210-220 Keith inspired SWC, plain based boolit, too. I shot a hundred 41032 plinking loads today and really enjoyed the accuracy at modest velocity. Keep on keeping on with the ideas and suggestions. Mebbe one of us will honcho a buy after we talk about it enough.

Doc

porkchop bob

09-11-2005, 10:59 PM

I like the SAECO #410. FN, PB, 210 grain. Have not tried, but believe it would feed OK in a lever action rifle. For consideration for a group buy, it could be made fatter and taller by adding a gas check. If results too heavy, increase size of lube grooves. Bob

rockrat

09-11-2005, 11:42 PM

Something around 250gr would be good. Make a light bullet load in my 405win. ;)

Bear4570

09-12-2005, 10:19 AM

This is a 250 LBT WFNGC from Cast Performance Bullet Co.

https://secure.veracart.com/vc/merchants/castperform/59-md.jpg

Bodydoc447

09-12-2005, 11:39 AM

That is a nice looking boolit! And sounds like she shoots as good as she looks.

Doc

felix

09-12-2005, 01:05 PM

80 percent meplats shoot to about 50 yards with excellent accuracy. 60 percent meplats will go 500 yards. 70 percent maybe 250 yards. WFN is 80; 70 is LFN; 60 is Keith. That same boolit as shown would be gangbusters at 60 percent for the rifles. Now, from lots of experience shooting the 41 mag, this caliber seems to seriously out-penetrate all other calibers with NOMINAL weight boolits for the caliber. Going over 230 grains would be a pure waste of lead, and impact lever gun's trajectory using the 41 mag case size. There just isn't enough room in that case to hold enough powder. So, what we really need to do for a group buy is decide what is paramount (other than mating with the Marlin freebore. ... felix

Bodydoc447

09-12-2005, 01:14 PM

Mostly what I am looking for is a mold I can use in my revolvers. I have no problems with gas checks, assuming we can get the mold to work with commonly available GCs..the Hornady 416s. The weight, for my purposes, can be from 215-265 and the meplat 60 to 80 percent. If the group would rather do a Keith style SWC, I'd be okay with that, too. Your post was very interesting, Felix. I alway thought that the .41 was a good penetrator but did not realize that it did as well as you indicated. I do not have enough experience with it yet. I hope to remedy that with a group buy on a .41 mold.

Doc

GregP42

09-12-2005, 03:42 PM

I sat last night and did some measuring on my BH .41, the chamber mouths run .410 to .4109, the barrel has a .409 groove, that was a little strange, the BH has a 1 in 20 twist, what does the marlin have in it Felix? Has anyone thought about OAL when loaded? I know I can get a cartrige that is 1.690 OAL in my chamber with .030 to spare, I like to have that much free play on mine just in case they work loose. So that is a few things to think about too. Now as to weight, we need to figure out the twist for the majority of us and make sure the design will work with that and the average speed we want to toss these things out at.

Anyone else think of anything we should think about here? How many of us are going to be shooting past a few 100 yards? I will go out to about 300 myself, so we need to think about that too.

Late lunches make me ramble, carry on every one and ponder on these things.

Greg

RugerFan

09-12-2005, 05:17 PM

I agree with Felix that 230 gns would be plenty heavy enough (As I recall Veral reccomended sticking to 210). I'm shooting my BHs to 100 yards, so would like to keep metplat at 60-70%. What about nose length? I was thinking of maybe a short one like .300". This would mean more bearing surface.

This is my wish list, but like I said before, I'm pretty open about the whole thing.

Bodydoc447

09-12-2005, 08:56 PM

I won't be shooting much past 100 yards, at least with any regularity. All of the above is fine with me, too.

felix

09-12-2005, 09:14 PM

I THINK all 41 mags are 20 twist, with a few at 18, and some in-between. This twist is plenty for what we are contemplating. ... felix

Buckshot

09-12-2005, 10:12 PM

.............I don't own a 41 Mag handgun, but I do have a 40-65 rifle. While drifting through Lee's surplus site many moons ago they had 6 cavity 240gr SWC-GC 41 mould. I bought one for the 40-65 rolling block (which has a 16" twist) to dink around with. It did okay but a 300gr RCBS did better. I knew Deputy Al had a 41 mag so offered it to him.

I don't know how much work he's down with it. I'd given some of the boolits to another friend with a BH in 41 mag and he said they did very well. MAybe Deputy Al will have some input?

.............Buckshot

475/480

09-13-2005, 01:02 PM

Greg, I am waiting for several types of boolits to show up from offerees on the board. I have two versions of a 220K only, the Lyman and the H&G/Ballicast. The Keiths would make excellent revolter boolits, but might not have enough frontal to take up the freebore in the Marlin. Waiting for some LBT types. ... felix

Hi Felix,I have a few 41 moulds,
LBT 240 gr WLNGC noselength-.425
MM 255 gr WFNGC " " -.420
MM 295 gr WFNPB " " -.425
MM 305 gr WFNGC " " -.420
MM 325 gr WFNGC " " -.460,this is for a TC Encore and DW 41 SM
If you want to experiment with some ,email me
I will get in on a 6 cav 41 mould if it is a go,has to be gas check though I run high pressures usually.

Sean

7br

09-13-2005, 01:35 PM

I have the RCBS mould and an LBT mould that throws at 230gr. I would be interested in 245-260gr range. If we go with checks, I would suggest we get it cut to accept the hornady .416 rifle checks. I do shoot silhouette, but haven't shot bigbore for quite a while. I will be sizing to .411, so .413 would be fine with me.