Difference between 38 Special and 38 Special +P brass?

[Mark]

I recently aquired a good supply of mixed manufacture 38 Special +P brass (nickel cases). I know Starline states that their 38 Special +P brass is no different (except for headstamp) than their 38 Special brass. Does anyone else know for certain about any other brass? R-P seems to be different by about 50 fps.
Thanks,
Mark

[jaguarxk120]

The stamping "38+P" is for the end user of the loaded ammo. It is so the shooter can tell what rounds are in the gun, pocket, quick loaders, or setting on the shelf. Just for id purpose only.
You are not the end user, you are the user of bulk brass material that just happens to take the shape of 38 cases.

Could you explain about R-P brass being 50fps faster even though it's empty brass?

[docone31]

Case capacity.
Even though the identical powder charge was inserted, less or more case capacity will affect the fps., of the load.

[dubber123]

I've cut apart quite a few over the years, and never saw much of a difference, with the exception of some brass intended for Match wadcutter loads, which had thinner walls. I don't believe I could measure much of a difference in the webs of .357 mag brass Vs. .38 Spl. for that matter.

[Southern Son]

Mark, I have been using Winchester brass, some marked "+P" and some not. I fooled around with the Chrony using the same load in the differently marked cases. The difference between the non +P and the +P was so small that you would not notice it under normal shooting conditions. HOWEVER, I noticed that some of the cases had a crimp on the side of the case (about where the base of the projectile would have been when it was factory loaded), and most did not. The ones with the crimp did vary (I cannot remember if they were higher or lower) from the rest by an amount that would have caused problems.

[Shiloh]

I've cut apart quite a few over the years, and never saw much of a difference, with the exception of some brass intended for Match wadcutter loads, which had thinner walls. I don't believe I could measure much of a difference in the webs of .357 mag brass Vs. .38 Spl. for that matter.

Did the same thing. Also weighed both new and cleaned fired reg and +P.
Same variations in both. If there is a difference, I couldn't find it.

I have +P mixed in with my supply of .38 Special brass.

Shiloh

[jaguarxk120]

If you have the brass all sorted, regular/+P into box's someone might notice at the range. Especially if you shooting +P mid range wadcutters. :bigsmyl2:

[jlchucker]

Manufacturers may be headstamping with the +P designation primarily for the purpose of using those cases for their own commercially-loaded cartridges further along in their own production lines. I can't believe there'd actually be a reason to go through the expense of manufacturing two dimensionally different sets of cases for what's basically the same cartridge. Nowhere have I ever seen in any of my loading manuals where the +P data says that you need to use cases that are marked "+P". Do I need some newer load books??

[Cowboy T]

Yes, there's a big difference between the two--it's what you'll pay for a given lot of 'em on Gunbroker. :D

I shoot a lot of .38 Special, both in regular and "+P" stamped cases. I neither see nor feel any difference with my load in either case. So, I decided to use the +P cases exclusively for my near-.357 Magnum load, given the current scarcity of .357 Magnum brass. This way I can tell at a glance which load is which. Since my only ".38 caliber" firearm is a .357 Magnum, and only I shoot my handloads, this poses no danger even if I inadvertently swap boxes.

[jaguarxk120]

[QUOTE=Cowboy T;886943]Yes, there's a big difference between the two--it's what you'll pay for a given lot of 'em on Gunbroker. :D

Whats on Gunbroker is that new virgin brass or is it scrap range sweepings? Big difference between the two.

[Mark]

...HOWEVER, I noticed that some of the cases had a crimp on the side of the case (about where the base of the projectile would have been when it was factory loaded), and most did not. The ones with the crimp did vary (I cannot remember if they were higher or lower) from the rest by an amount that would have caused problems.

Interesting. In reviewing the +P cases that I was using, they all had the crimp ring in the side of the case as you describe. I am going to experiment a little more when I get some time and post some results.
Thanks all,
Mark

[wiljen]

I tested this awhile back and posted the results. I took several brands of 38 and 357 brass and trimmed them all to 38 special trim to length then weighed each of them. The answer was that there is NO difference in any of the 38s or 357 brass trimmed to the same length when measured by weight.

The test included federal +P, and +P+ brass amongst others and showed that none of them were any heavier than standard Remington 38 brass.

[Southern Son]

Interesting. In reviewing the +P cases that I was using, they all had the crimp ring in the side of the case as you describe. I am going to experiment a little more when I get some time and post some results.
Thanks all,
Mark

From memory, I weighed about 20 cases with a crimp and about the same without. I think that the cases with the crimp were about 5 grains heavier than those without. When I weighed the +P and non +P, I could not find any consistant difference between the two in weight (I have MANY different batches of each case mixed in together and I think that the batches vary more than the headstamps).

[dubber123]

I tested this awhile back and posted the results. I took several brands of 38 and 357 brass and trimmed them all to 38 special trim to length then weighed each of them. The answer was that there is NO difference in any of the 38s or 357 brass trimmed to the same length when measured by weight.

The test included federal +P, and +P+ brass amongst others and showed that none of them were any heavier than standard Remington 38 brass.

Sorry I missed that one Will. It sounds like your results mirror that of most of us. ;)

[felix]

Gun brass is a commodity, and made by very few firms in the form of slugs for cartridge extrusion by many more different firms. ... felix

[Recluse]

I kinda do the opposite.

Since all my +P cases are nickel, and nickel tends to split a little sooner than brass, least it does for me, I use my nickel +P cases to load up the powder-puff 105SWC loads.

Easily distinguishable and easy on the case. Win-win for me.

:coffee:

[Cowboy T]

[QUOTE=Cowboy T;886943]Yes, there's a big difference between the two--it's what you'll pay for a given lot of 'em on Gunbroker. :D

Whats on Gunbroker is that new virgin brass or is it scrap range sweepings? Big difference between the two.

Range sweepings. .38 Spl can be had on GB for $35/1000 if you take time and shop, but a +P lot is at least double that, about what .357M costs. Fortunately, a lot of ".38 Spl" brass purchases include a significant amount of +P anyway.

[Big Dave]

Cowboy,
Have in the past loaded 357 level loads in 38 special cases but always seated the bullets long enough that they wouldn't chamber in a standard 38 cylinder. way I was taught by my Dad long ago. Simple precaution just in case some fell into someones posession who didn't know what they had. Didn't hurt me and might save someone else.