'94 Winchester caliber question

[S.R.Custom]

Did Winchester ever make the '94 (or any other lever gun, for that matter) in .35 Remington? I'm guessing not...?

[Don McDowell]

no.
They did chamber the bigbore version in the 356, which is nothing more than a 358 with thicker case web, and a flat point bullet.

[pietro]

AFAIK, The Winchester 53/55/64/65/86/92/94 leverguns require a rimmed case, to feed through their actions.

Winchester never chambered a levergun in .35 Remington, but IIRC wildcatters have chambered M94's for a .35 wildcat based on the rimmed .30-30 case.
I haven't bothered to look yet, but I seem to remember a GD article about just that subject, from about 30 years ago.

While many equate the .356 Winchester with the rimless .358 Win, besides loading with FP bullets, the .356 also has a rim, and was factory loaded to slightly lower ballistics than factory .358 Win ammo.

.

[StarMetal]

It's not that Winchesters can't be made to feed rimless ammo, it's that Winchester never saw a reason to do it.

[MtGun44]

The .35 Rem was the big brother of Remington's family of rimless cartridges designed to
directly compete with the Winchester cartridges like .25, .30, .32 (spl) WCF .

I think this kinda like ' Did Dodge ever put a 427 rat motor in the Charger?' Not only no,
but HECK no.

Not that I actually know the answer for sure, but it seems extremely unlikely given the
direct competition that they were working on at the time.

[StarMetal]

The .35 Rem was the big brother of Remington's family of rimless cartridges designed to
directly compete with the Winchester cartridges like .25, .30, .32 (spl) WCF .

I think this kinda like ' Did Dodge ever put a 427 rat motor in the Charger?' Not only no,
but HECK no.

Not that I actually know the answer for sure, but it seems extremely unlikely given the
direct competition that they were working on at the time.


....but did Dodge ever put their rear differentials in Chevy's...heck yeah!!!!

We see your point though.:kidding:

[S.R.Custom]

I didn't think so. The reason I asked...

Lately I've had a notion to start converting some of these old pot-metal Winchester 30-30s into something with a .35 bore now that they've gotten cheap again. I'd considered the 35-30, but while they were once popular back in the day, they're quite the abnormality today. I'd hoped for a more 'common' project...

And it's not like Winchester hasn't glommed onto the competition's cartridges before. I mean, how many billions of guns have they chambered in .44 Remington Magnum? And then there's that pesky .444 Marlin that seemed to sell so well for them. [smilie=1:

[MtGun44]

It seems like today there isn't QUITE the competition any more, altho the short mag
'wars' was all a bit silly, wasn't it?

It would be interesting to see if a 94 would work with a rimless case. I suppose the extractor
would have to be modified, but I'd have to go to the basement and actually look at the
bolt face of a 94 to see how it would work with the rimless .35 Rem.

Did they actually put Dodge rear ends in Chevies??

[StrawHat]

Wasn't the Marlin 336 chambered for the 35 Remington?

[pmeisel]

Did they actually put Dodge rear ends in Chevies??

a very interesting question......

[StarMetal]

It seems like today there isn't QUITE the competition any more, altho the short mag
'wars' was all a bit silly, wasn't it?

It would be interesting to see if a 94 would work with a rimless case. I suppose the extractor
would have to be modified, but I'd have to go to the basement and actually look at the
bolt face of a 94 to see how it would work with the rimless .35 Rem.

Did they actually put Dodge rear ends in Chevies??

Had a friend I worked with at a chemical plant that owned a chevy van. He needed a rear axle bearing went to Chevy and they told him that particular rear axle was from Chrysler so go down to the Dodge dealer. He did and got the bearing.

As for the 94 working with a rimless case I imagine not only the extractor would have to be change but also the device that keeps the cartridges from coming out of the magazine.

[S.R.Custom]

...It would be interesting to see if a 94 would work with a rimless case...

I've heard (translation: interwebz hearsay) that the .308 Winchester and .358 Winchester cartridges will function "just fine" in .307 and .356 Winchester guns. And looking at the bolt face of my current BigBore, I can see where that might be true. But to say that what 'might' work in an AE BB will also work on an old school 30-30 rebarreled to .35 Remington is purely speculative.

The ejector cut appears to go almost to the primer pocket, so ejection looks like a non-issue. And if one were good at bending springs and making mill cuts, it appears he could alter the bolt & extractor in such a manner as to ensure reliable extraction. But then you're going from a simple re-barrel job to a temporal sink-hole. (Besides, when is a barrel job on a Winchester ever 'simple?')

I dunno. I'm starting to think the best solution is to commission a run of dies in 35-30 so that I can include a set with each gun I build...


Had a friend I worked with at a chemical plant that owned a chevy van. He needed a rear axle bearing went to Chevy and they told him that particular rear axle was from Chrysler so go down to the Dodge dealer. He did and got the bearing.

The auto companies are pretty shameless about using third party supplied parts. He's probably referring to the fact that the axle was probably made by Dana. They put those in Fords and Jeeps, too. And for a lot of years you could also find the same transmissions (Borg Warner T-18/19) in Ford, Jeep, and International light trucks.

[FredT]

Wasn't the Marlin 336 chambered for the 35 Remington?

Yes it was/is. It was part of their bread and butter then and it still is today.

[StarMetal]

I've heard (translation: interwebz hearsay) that the .308 Winchester and .358 Winchester cartridges will function "just fine" in .307 and .356 Winchester guns. And looking at the bolt face of my current BigBore, I can see where that might be true. But to say that what 'might' work in an AE BB will also work on an old school 30-30 rebarreled to .35 Remington is purely speculative.

The ejector cut appears to go almost to the primer pocket, so ejection looks like a non-issue. And if one were good at bending springs and making mill cuts, it appears he could alter the bolt & extractor in such a manner as to ensure reliable extraction. But then you're going from a simple re-barrel job to a temporal sink-hole. (Besides, when is a barrel job on a Winchester ever 'simple?')

I dunno. I'm starting to think the best solution is to commission a run of dies in 35-30 so that I can include a set with each gun I build...

I have to agree with you on the 35-50.

[Trailblazer]

The biggest problem with converting the 94 to use rimless cases is the feeding mechanism. The part that Joe referred to that stops the cartridges in the tube from being pushed under the carrier when it is up is called, strangely enough, the cartridge stop. It needs a rim to work properly. It wouldn't be to difficult to make a spring loaded cartridge stop that would allow rimless cases to feed and maybe some day I will do it. But then the cartridge guides also depend on the rim to keep the cartridge from popping out the top of the action. Some modification might be necessary there too.

Rimless cases do not feed in my 356 Winchester. They slide under the carrier and tie up the action.

At the last gun show there was a bag of 35-30 brass for sale. No dies or anything else. First time I have ever seen physical evidence of the existence of the fabled 35-30!

[S.R.Custom]

The biggest problem with converting the 94 to use rimless cases is the feeding mechanism. The part that Joe referred to that stops the cartridges in the tube from being pushed under the carrier when it is up is called, strangely enough, the cartridge stop. It needs a rim to work properly.

I was looking at that. It appears --to me anyway-- that a strategically placed dimple in the magazine tube would force the rimless cartridge into proper engagement with the stop.


...But then the cartridge guides also depend on the rim to keep the cartridge from popping out the top of the action. Some modification might be necessary there too....

That, I believe, is the deal killer. I think "some modification" is an understatement. You'd have to totally re-think how the action 'handles' cartridges; it utterly relies upon the rim to guide the cartridge. Otherwise you're relying on gravity and the grace of God for the cartridge to just lay there and behave as it's pushed up and in.

[AnthonyB]

That's funny; rimless cases feed very well in both my 356 Winchester and 356 Marlin. I do most of my shooting with reformed 308 brass and save the 356 brass for hunting loads.
Tony

[S.R.Custom]

Rimless cases do not feed in my 356 Winchester. They slide under the carrier and tie up the action.



That's funny; rimless cases feed very well in both my 356 Winchester and 356 Marlin. I do most of my shooting with reformed 308 brass and save the 356 brass for hunting loads.
Tony

Early poll results would seem to indicate it works half the time. :mrgreen:

[S.R.Custom]

Interesting reading:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=16472

Money quote:


Oh my look-- the wheel!! :-D [smilie=1:

[StarMetal]

That's funny; rimless cases feed very well in both my 356 Winchester and 356 Marlin. I do most of my shooting with reformed 308 brass and save the 356 brass for hunting loads.
Tony


Tony, that's Grrrrrrrrrrreat! Cool post.

[Mk42gunner]

I myself, have wondered why Winchester didn't make their own version of a 35-30. Could it be that they figured the .38-55 high speed loads would do anything the .35 Remington would do?

From the dim recesses of memory, it seems the .25, .30, and.32 Remingtons were ballistic twins of the .25-35, .30 WCF, and ,32 Winchester Special cartidges; but the .35 Remington used a different case. Plus at the time Winchester had three other 35 caliber rounds- .35 WCF, .35 WSL, and the .351WSL.

Who Knows???


Robert

[izzyjoe]

to the question on the dodge rearaxle in the chevy, ford used them to. but the axle is really a dana, and back in the day everybody used them. cause they are tough as nails and nobody the spent time to make there own. if it aint broke don't fix it!

[StarMetal]

to the question on the dodge rearaxle in the chevy, ford used them to. but the axle is really a dana, and back in the day everybody used them. cause they are tough as nails and nobody the spent time to make there own. if it aint broke don't fix it!


Nissan trucks are using Dana today.

[StrawHat]

I believe C.E. harris had a lever rifle converted to handle the 45 ACP cartridge and we know Marlin did the 35 Remington so lever actions can function with rimless cases. But what is the fun of that when you can go with a wildcat!!

[pmeisel]

Dana always did sell to most everybody. Most of the automakers made some of their own as well.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Super Mag. While I don,t think Winchester chambered the .35 Rem. in lever actions, they did chamber their 1895 in .35 Win.