Starting with pure lead, best/smartest additive strategy?

[ericscher]

I just bought 250 pounds of scrap lead. It is supposedly pure, although a purity number wasn't given, and I have no reason to doubt the source; I have no reason to believe he's lying and every reason to believe that he knows what he sold me.



Obviously, using the pure lead directly isn't the best use of it.

I was thinking that I might try to accumulate 500lbs of wheel weights to make a 2:1 alloy of WW:Lead, and if I can do that I suppose I could also go for 750lbs of WW for a 3:1 alloy.


Still, this may or may not yield a good alloy (I don't know, even after reading a LOT of old posts. Also, it may not be the smartest way to go. Perhaps I should do a 1:1 mix of WW:Lead and add some Tin or Antimony to THAT.

After not getting any closer to a good, solid answer after many hours of reading, I decided it was time to quit lurking and start ASKING.


So, what do y'all think?

What would be the smartest way to go, beginning with the pure stuff?



BTW, I don't know if it matters to the question but the smelting setup I plan to use consist of:

Bayou Classic SP10 High-Pressure Outdoor Gas Cooker
Lodge Logic 7-Quart Dutch Oven with Spiral Handle Bail and Iron Cover
Two Old Mountain 8 Impression Biscuit Pans
#4 Rowell Bottom Pour Ladle (For Pouring the biscuits)

[grumpy one]

What matters most is what kind of shooting you will do. Some jobs benefit from one kind of alloy, and some from another kind. At one extreme you might want to muzzle load, and at the other, maximize ballistics for a high velocity rifle, or hunt big game. On the other hand, you might just want to shoot low intensity handguns or reduced loads in rifles at a range - and for this you can use something quite basic.

Many shooters have multiple objectives. Some of them try to find an alloy that will do everything (and this is possible within limits, but it will be more expensive and require more quality control of ingredients). Others use more than one alloy: perhaps a cheap, forgiving one for plinking, one for high-intensity handguns, and a third for hunting with a rifle. Without knowing your plan, I don't think a good answer can be offered to your question.

[ericscher]

Well, I have two basic intentions:

Definitely:
General target/practice rounds for a variety of revolvers & semi-auto pistols, and some lever action rifles. (.30-30 & .45-70 for instance) Possibly some Cowboy Action shooting if I get the urge.

Maybe:
Hunting or self-defense bullets for the lever action rifles and possibly some revolvers. (But nothing semi-auto in either hand or long gun.)

That's it.

For my Blackpowder shooting I plan to use store-bought roundball or buffalo bullets and for anything semi-auto or precision I plan to use modern jacketed and high performance bullets.

[KYCaster]

50/50 WW/Pb will work for most of what you listed. 9mm and 40S&W could use a bit harder alloy.

Add 10% Linotype to your 50/50 for the 9mm, .40 and rifle loads over ~1500 fps.


Jerry

[sagacious]

KYCaster has your solid answer. You could also water-quench that ww alloy for the 9mm and 40SW, if you happen to need harder bullets, but can't get linotype. That would be an easy, yet smart alloying strategy. Good luck.

[evan price]

Eric, if these're for those .45's I sold you, 50-50 wheel weight alloy to pure lead works fine for those lower pressure, lower velocity type cartridges. I do my 45 and 38 specials out of 100% range scrap which is ??? God knows what ??? alloy but it is softer than WW and harder than pure (about halfway between).

For the Magnums, 9mm, .40, etc. (higher velocity stuff) I use straight WW alloy, water dropped.

For your rifle you'll need quite a bit harder.

Wheel weights are not a "given" alloy, but typically you get 4% antimony +/- a percent or two, and a smidge or so of tin (usually less than 1%).

Tin might be nice in the final alloy only because it aids bullet fillout (makes it wetter so to speak) in the mould. But it's not required to use tin, and if so, only as much as you need...it's expensive.

Your best bet might be to find some type metal (monotype/linotype) and mix that in to get the ratio with your pure lead you want.

Linotype at 1 part lino to 2 parts pure lead should give you a good ratio for pistols and will stretch your lino supply.

If you want more like the 92/6/2 alloy "Hardball", then you should mix that at roughly 50-50 lino to pure.

If you get some monotype mix it 3 parts pure lead to one part monotype...this will stretch your monotype.

Or mix it up at 2 parts pure to 1 part monotype and that gets you approx. 92/6/2 hardball alloy.

Linotype will come in strips with whole words on the edge of it. The strips may be chopped into smaller segments. Monotype is individual letters or punctuation or spacers and has a lot more tin and antimony.

Type metal spiked up recently and it's getting $1.25 a pound shipped in quantity on eBay- and up...

You could also try solder, it's a great source of tin, but it won't have any antimony, and you need antimony to harden. There's where wheel weights are nice. Wheel weights, pure lead and solder make a good 92/6/2 alloy.

Just depends on what other metals you find to sweeten your alloy.

[ericscher]

Thanks guys, that's the sort of stuff I was looking for.

[Swindler1]

Just this week I tested Linotype cast with WW and or Pb.
Cast temp....725
Mold.............Lee 358-158-RF
Hardness tester Lee
Air cooled

WW................................ BHN/9...........162gr
WW-1.......LINO-1........... BHN16.6.......157gr
WW-2.......LINO-1............BHN15.4.......159gr
WW-3.......LINO-1............BHN13.4.......160gr
WW-1.......LINO-2............BHN17.9.......155gr
Pb--1........LINO-1............BHN14.3.......158gr
Pb--1........LINO-3............BHN17.4.......157gr
LINO................................BHN20.9....... 152gr

[HangFireW8]

I just bought 250 pounds of scrap lead. It is supposedly pure, although a purity number wasn't given, and I have no reason to doubt the source; I have no reason to believe he's lying and every reason to believe that he knows what he sold me.

Unless he has test equipment, he might be 100% sincere that it is pure lead but it could be 99%, 98%, 97% pure, etc. I suggest getting a hardness tester before getting too involved in alloying it.




BTW, I don't know if it matters to the question but the smelting setup I plan to use consist of:

Bayou Classic SP10 High-Pressure Outdoor Gas Cooker
Lodge Logic 7-Quart Dutch Oven with Spiral Handle Bail and Iron Cover
Two Old Mountain 8 Impression Biscuit Pans
#4 Rowell Bottom Pour Ladle (For Pouring the biscuits)


I also have the SP10. It works very well for me... now. I found it much, much more efficient after I moved the burner up a few inches. It was pretty easy, I cut a notch in the bottom edge of the windscreen for clearance and moved the straps up that held the burner. I also eliminated the annoying (and eventually, broken) "safety" timer.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=267

-HF

[walta44]

Probably covered before, but newbie here. Loading 45-70,50-70 & 11mm mau. Have plenty of Pb, ww`s(clip on) & some lino. Any one recommend ratio of pb/ww? Do I need lino? I`m using BP or substitute only- no smokeless. Don`t have a hard. tester other than thumbnail.

[sagacious]

Probably covered before, but newbie here. Loading 45-70,50-70 & 11mm mau. Have plenty of Pb, ww`s(clip on) & some lino. Any one recommend ratio of pb/ww? Do I need lino? I`m using BP or substitute only- no smokeless. Don`t have a hard. tester other than thumbnail.

With mild loads, you'll do fine with 2:1 Pb/ww. For heavier loads, 1:1 Pb/ww would work well. You do not need lino for the applications you listed. Good luck.

[HangFireW8]

Probably covered before, but newbie here. Loading 45-70,50-70 & 11mm mau. Have plenty of Pb, ww`s(clip on) & some lino. Any one recommend ratio of pb/ww? Do I need lino? I`m using BP or substitute only- no smokeless. Don`t have a hard. tester other than thumbnail.

Welcome aboard, Walta44. Don't be afraid to start your own thread for your questions.

-HF

[fredj338]

I find a 50/50 ww/lead mix works fine for most handgun applications to 1100fps or spo. You may need a bit harder for hot 9mm or 40s, running at higher pressures, but that is pretty much how I go.