garand

[Brownie]

to whom it may concern.

today I shoot a 1- 3/8'' group at 50yds with my garand. the load I used,
bullet #311332 sized .3095"
winchester magum primer
36grs of H-380
winchester cases
:D:D

[sqlbullet]

One of my Garands will perform that well routinely. I run a Lee 200 grain gas checked sized .310, felix lube, over 42 grains of H-4831 + 1/4 sheet TP. I use mixed brass.

I am going to have this mold modified to a plain base and work up some loads with Reloader 15 since I have a bunch on hand. I hope to both use of the powder, and get a load that is under ¢10 a shot. Eliminating the gas check will help.

I have another Garand that I am still working with. The bore in this one is really rough, although the ME isn't bad. I don't have a gauge, but HXP is still well out of the muzzle. The front gas cylinder was loose, as was the front hand guard. I have peened the splines and tacked the hand guard eliminating the slop. I shot it at 100 yards Saturday with HXP and still was getting 6" groups. However, that was my first time shooting any Garand at 100 yards, so i gotta assume at least part of that was operator.

[shotman]

well we do have honest guys here. I like the ones that shoot the less than 1in at 200yds with open sights BS

[WILCO]

so i gotta assume at least part of that was operator.

That's how it is with me. My guns are more accurate when in the hands of someone else.

[dualsport]

What? You guys don't get 1" groups at 200 yds.? You just gotta bear down, hold your mouth right. Yeah, that's the ticket!

[smokemjoe]

Run your bullet size .002 oversize of your bore if woren, That will help also.

[Brownie]

thanks for the info guys


I am going to load some more of these and shoot some at 100yds, and see what happens. the sights aren,t as clear as they used to be so I usually shoot at 50yds when I try new. loads. I will see if I have any 4831 powder to try. the rifling in my Garand is sharp and shiny but is a little dark in the grooves for some reason. one other thing I noticed, it was rather windy on sunday when I shot this target. I shot four targets that day and after the first two I put up a wind thing flag like the benchrest shooters use and it made a big improvement on the group size, even at only 50yds with these 185gr bullets.

[sqlbullet]

Both of my Garands have dark grooves as well. Not sure what that is from. I worked them with the brass brush and a variety of bore cleaners and solvents, but no change. It is almost like the grooves were parked. My chamber is bright, so I doubt the Greek's parked the inside of the bore but not the back of the chamber....

But, they are fun to shoot, and the bullets don't complain about the darkness, and I get no leading.

[brettb75]

i was trying to work up some light cast bullet loads, so i took out the set screw adjustment plug and cycled the action by hand. I used 16 grains of 2400, cci br primer, and lake city brass. i have only shot at 25 yards as that is the length of my back yard. I shot an 11 shot group that measured.975 with calipers. I also tried IMR 4227 and i didnt like it, I got vertical stringing i think due to case position of powder.. Do the loads you listed all cycle the action on your garand?

[shotman]

Any of you that want to light load you can pick up the recoil springs cheap start cutting about an inch off and you will get to where it will cycle. the SCHUSTER plug is the way to go but they are about $40 I marked a couple springs and that worked for me

[Brownie]

to brettb75
I almost always use slower burning rifle powder with lead bullets in any caliber. in my Garand I have used. 4895, H-380, 4064, H-335, and BLC-2. all these loaded between 34 & 36 grs. I use 150gr FNGC .30-30 bullets or 180gr SPGC bullets. these loads work the action perfectly and throw out the empty clip with a loud ping. not much fun to shoot if you don.t hear the ping. these loads all work very well but 36grs of H-380 and 180gr pointed gas checked bullet seem to be about the best in my Garand.

[Brownie]

no leading here either, just a lot of black goo when cleaning. it must be from the bullet lube.

[GBertolet]

I've been playing with cast in my Garand also. Right now I am using 35.0 gr H4895 with the 311284 bullet of heat treated WW. I size at .310 and use 50/50 alox. The action works gently, and the empties go out about 4 to 5 feet at 2 o'clock. The gun is completely stock. My aging eyes aren't that great to get a consistant group size at 100 yds. I can clobber 8 inch steel gongs off hand at 100yds though, no problem.

[jonk]

Just under 3 MOA (what you're shooting) is about average for my M1s with surplus ammo. So while nothing world beating, you're doing fine.

[Pirate69]

When we talk about Garand accuracy, we need to keep in mind that these were not the most accurate rifles in the world. "The NRA’s American Rifleman reprint entitled The M1 Rifle is an excellent reference for bedding these rifles. It indicates that acceptable accuracy limits are “3 1/2 inch average extreme spread for three 10-shot groups at 100 yds range, no single group over 5 inches extreme spread”.

[sqlbullet]

Combat rifle, combat accuracy.

It is almost humorous some of the claims you see of 1" groups at 100 yards standing, rapid fire, one handed in a hurricane during an earthquake at night shooting at a black bulls-eye on dark gray paper.

[BruceB]

I'm well aware of the accuracy standards needed for "acceptance" of an issued rifle. They are LOOSE, to be sure.

HOWEVER..... those service rifles undergoing acceptance tests do not have a loving handloader experimenting to see what the individual rifle prefers. Over a few decades, I've owned at least half-a-dozen Garands. Every one of them easily beat the acceptance standards with handloaded jacketed bullets (mostly Hornadys or Sierras), and some of them did very well indeed. Intelligent research allows at least some of these combat rifles to shoot far better than service ammo permits.

Right now, my much-loved M1A groups five Sierra 168 matchkings very tightly around the one-inch mark at 100 yards, with iron sights from the benchrest. It has grouped TEN cast bullets in 0.60" at fifty yards, also with irons. It's a "combat rifle" that thinks it's a match rifle. It's never fired a factory load even though over 6,000 rounds have gone down the barrel....and 5500 were cast bullets!

Yep, these may not be the most-accurate rifles ever built, but lordy, what a lot of fun and interest they create as we try to make them exceed their designed accuracy level. I'm about to start the whole process again with another Garand, this one a Danish-return piece with an apparently-new "VAR" barrel and a stock that'll knock yer socks off....finished as nicely as a Remington CDL!

[sqlbullet]

I am with BruceB on this. Lest anyone not catch the tongue in cheek of my above remarks that are aimed at outrageous claims.

One of my a Garands has produced regular sub-1" groups at 50 yards thanks to the BobS/BruceB load. The other suffers from a much worse bore, a dinged crown and worst of all a loose gas cylinder. Had the cylinder off last night, peened the splines, and it is not locked up TIGHT! Looking forward to getting it to the range tomorrow morning and seeing what she will do now that the front sight doesn't move between shots.

[Pirate69]

While I am very new to casting, I have been building, collecting and shooting Garands for years. I enjoy reworking Rack or Field Grades to get the best out of them. I shoot very few commericial bullets in my Garands, most are demilled M2s with surplus IMR 4895 and military cases. In other words; as cheap as I can get. As such, I strive for a rifle to hold eight rounds in the black on a SR-1 target with 5 to 6 rounds in the 9-ring (3in). One of my Garands has never shot that well even though a muzzle reading of 3 is not really that bad. I have done everything to it that I can. Changed stocks, reworked trigger group, recrowned, tighten gas cylinder, relieved stock contact, etc. I had basically given up on it and had bought a new Criterian barrel for it. I took it with me this morning to crank of a few rounds. My pet load is 46.0 grains of demilled IMR4895 behind whatever a M2. Anyway, I fired 5 rounds and got the size group that I have seen time and time before. I was thinking that this thing has got to be rebarreled. I had recently loaded some 168 grain Golden West Brass bullets and had some with me. I figured this would confirm once and for all what I needed to do. Well, you can see the two groups below. The 168 grainers gave a 1.5" center to center group. As far as I can remember, this is the first time this rifle has kept a group within 8 inches.

Anyone else would have shot another group. But I didn't. I do not want to burst this bubble to soon if this in indeed a lucky group.


http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww187/Pirate69-photo/Cast%20boolits%20groups/001.jpg

[Brownie]

that is a really, really nice group. I never have used jacketed bullets in my Garand, but 165gr boat tail bullets work very good in my .308. it never ceases to amaze me how changing one thing in a load can make such a difference, either for better or for worse.

[Patrick L]

My favorites are the guys with the sub moa M1 carbines.

Seriously, in regards to Garand accuracy, the size of the group is only half of the equation. I found that after glass bedding and even rebarreling my Garand was wildly unpredictable, especially as it heated up. A 5 shot group would be very good, but firing a 60 or 80 round Highpower course had me pulling my hair out and SERIOUSLY thinking about seeing how far I could heave that beast downrange. Groups would either open up into patterns or shift all over the place.

The processes and procedures for unitizing the front end have been widely documented, and this is what made all the difference for me and mine. Honestly, about 2 to 2 1/2 inches is about the best I can get my M1 to shoot, BUT now it will shoot that all day long, with the poi staying the same. That really builds your confidence on that 20 round prone slowfire stage.

Conversely, I have another M1 that I deilberately left alone, "As Issued" so to speak. That one probably shoots about as well as the tricked out one, but only for the first clip or so. Things rapidly open up after that.

[Pirate69]

The strange thing is that I bought the Golden West bullets to see if they could be a cheap replacement for the The Nosler 168 grainers that I use in my M1As. The best I was able to get out of them with scoped rifles was about 1.5"; not a replacement for the Noslers. But I may have found a new use for them.

[Pirate69]

Patrick,
I will take your 2-2.5" day-in/day-out in a heart beat. I am happy to keep them all in a 6" circle with 5-6 rounds inside of 3". About the best I can do with my cheap components. By the way, I guess everyone knows I am talking about using a bench and sandbags. I can't even get myself to dream that I could shoot that good freestanding.