1894 marlin cowboy

[mack1]

I am beginning to load and cast for this new rifle and also a microgroove 1894c and 4"686 looking for a good starting place for the noe 360-180 rg4 ordered yesterday. Most interested in accuracy and velocity in the cowboy and next for the 686. looking for a allaround utility load deer hogs cow chasers and the like.

[crabo]

I have been struggling with the same gun trying to work up a good silhouette load. My goal is a repeatable 2" load at 100 yards.

I have tried Herco, Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, Universal, 296 and 4227. I have sized .358, .359, and .360

I have tried 4 different boolits, both water dropped and air cooled.

I have a lot of groups that will do under 1 1/4 inches at 50 yards, but when it goes to 100, they fall apart and often are in the 3-6" range.

The group below is 9 shots because I decided to shoot up all I had left on the same target. It is the best I have come up with so far, that is repeatable.

With the NOE HP GC...

14 of 4227
Fed small pistol primer
Starline Brass
AC WWs
C Red lube sized at 358
100 yards
2 1/2 inches

I think it is important to put your front rest where you plan on holding it. I use my front rest with a sandbag right in front of the lever as I would hold it in a match.

[felix]

Looks like an eyeball problem, Crabo. That group shows no other problem. Next time, put a scope on that thing. ... felix

[crabo]

Looks like an eyeball problem, Crabo. That group shows no other problem. Next time, put a scope on that thing. ... felix

Sad thing is, I am using a scope. I just want that repeatable 2" group, but also part of my problem is that I have spent may hours trying to do it with my plain based boolit I had Mountain Moulds make me.

[fecmech]

Crabo--I think (and I'm just guessing now) that consistent 100 yd 2-3" 10 shot group accuracy with .357 lever guns and plain based or even GC cast bullets is not possible. Even once you get the bedding and barrel harmonics as good as you can you still have to deal with funnel throats. I would love to be proved wrong and see proof of someone able to shoot 3 -10 shot groups one after the other that were consistently 2-2 1/2". I think bullets are damaged in the throat and that shows up the further you go downrange.
Like you I can shoot 1 to 1.5" 10 shot groups at 50 yds easily and the group will usually have 7 to 9 bullets clustered tightly together with the others somewhat separate. I learned years ago with a ransom rest capturing bullets at 25 and again at 50 yds that bullets not in the main clump are leaving that group fast. I have shot a number of 10 shot 2.5-3" 100 yd groups but I would never bet that I could do it on demand. Most of my !00 yd groups are 7 or 8 shots under 3"with the others going out to 4-6".
My best results at magnum velocities have been with 358429 and wc820 or 2400. In the 1100 fps range it's been with the H&G 158 RN and 231, WSF, or Unique. I have not had a chance to do much with the NOE 180 GB bullet as yet, I have that in GC and PB in a 5 cavity. I'm shooting a Winchester 94 and Rossi 92, no Marlins in my stable yet. Good luck in your quest, just thought I'd let you know you have company in your frustration. Nick

[StarMetal]

Sad thing is, I am using a scope. I just want that repeatable 2" group, but also part of my problem is that I have spent may hours trying to do it with my plain based boolit I had Mountain Moulds make me.

Next time where your forearm rests on the sandbag, cradle that with your hand and hand/gun on the sandbag. Looks like vertical stringing due to bounce off the sandbag to me. I never rest my lever action forearms on anything without my hand there.

[mack1]

I did not mention that it is a gc mold. I would be happy with a 3-4" 10 shot group at 100yds sounds like 2400 or 4227 will be good starting powders. thanks for the help.

[excess650]

I'm not using that bullet yet, but have shot numerous sub 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards with receiver sight on my old 1894C. I rest the receiver on the bags and grip the forend with the off hand. I've since purchased a newer 1894C and it seems to like the same ammo just fine, but I haven't taken time to many 100 yard groups with it.

My load is Starline cases, F205 primers, Saeco #354 185gr about 15bhn sized .360" and lubed with LBT Blue. My powder charge ISN'T in the loading manuals, but I've found it elsewhere on the 'net. I did my load development more than 10 years ago....work UP 1/2gr at a time with H110 until you get the accuracy you are looking for, or your rifle tells you its time to stop. WW296 should produce similar results, but I got better accuracy with H110. The old Speer #10 lists higher pressures than the more current manuals by some 10K CUP. My load is north of 16gr, and safe in MY rifles, (2) 1894C(both microgroove) and Browning Lowall. I have no problem with short case life. I've shot heavier charges than my "working load", but saw no benefit in group size.

Crabo, I've had the old 1894C at the shilhouette range and could shoot chickens on demand, sitting position, rifle across my knees. I'm talking 200M chickens....ran out of sight but could shoot pigs at 300M by holding the bead at the top of the back. The Browning Lowall with same ammo ran out of tang sight at 385M, but could shoot the turkeys if holding the bead head high.

Some Marlins like hot loads, but others don't. I had a couple of 1894 44Mags over the years, and one wouldn't tolerate 24hr WW296 with a 240JHP(would kick the lever loose), but would shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards with 22gr.

I wouldn't shoot this in my K frame S&W but would slow 'em down to 1000-1100fps or so.

[dualsport]

mack, I'd recommend you talk to Veral at LBT. I recently got one from him, a 360-200 LFN. Still working on it, but I'm confident it will hold under 2" at 100 yds. When I get there I'll report back. I shoot it now as cast with issue sights. When I go to bench test it I'll mount a scope.

[NickSS]

I have been shooting a Cowboy and a carbine in 357 mag for years and to date have never got groups smaller than around 3 inches at 100 yards except with Jacketed bullets. With them I have gotten groups down to near 2"+. I have had the same problem with my 44 mag and 45 colt long guns all shoot around 3 inches at best with cast bullets. I have given up doing better. My 30-30 rifles though will shoot groups of under 2 inches with good regularity. I really do not know why but again I accept it as the nature of the beast.

[felix]

The boolit BC is not sufficient to travel that distance in the amount of time it takes to make that distance. Now you know, Nick. ... felix

[Dave B]

I've kind of worked this too. I think, just like us, fat bullets are not long distance runners.

[mack1]

Thanks again for the advice. I got my mold and have a few boolits to work with and a new can of H110. Maby I will have some time to load some this weekend.

[45r]

I shot some of my 200PB boolits over 15.8 grains RE-7 with rem 7 1/2 primers and they went into a ragged hole at 50 yards.I don't shoot much beyond that with pistol boolits because it is so windy around here.I'll have to try 100 yards on a calm day to see what they will do.My 180PB boolits would do the same with 17 grains RE-7 but a friend talked me out of that mold.

[Jack Stanley]

Sometime ago I was working with the same type of firearms you are but using a thirty-eight load .

My bullet is a LBT one eighty-five flat nose with gas check ( or without sometimes ) . Federal or R-P cases with Winchester small pistol primers with four point seven grains of Bullseye . Overall length was shorter than factory magnum rounds and right off hand I don't remember what it was . I could go look it up if you needed it .

My groups were consistant but I thiink that is because I only intended to shoot them to about forty yards .

Jack

[crabo]

I made a post about my latest experiments in cast boolits section. "This is driving me crazy"