IMR 4227 (blue label, new) 357 magnum load data

[357shooter]

Hi again,

So I have some IMR4227 on hand, bought 4 months ago. I can't tell if where it was made, at least I didn't see any indication on the label.

Most all of the recipe's call for H427. The Lee manual actually shows IMR4227 for the 158 lead bullets, but I was hoping for some "magnum" loads. In the 1,500 FPS range. Just for fun.

Can someone point me to some loading data that useful? The Hodgdon site (even the IMRpowder.com site) end up showing the H4227 recipes.

I really like this powder under 158 SWC in a 38 Special and was hoping to load up something hotter for the 357.

Thanks for any info, I'll keep searching and have also sent an email to IMR to see what they say.

If the powder I have can use the H427 data with those velocties that would be great, but I'm not to sure that works. Depends if they are now the same powders.

[jbc]

lyman third edition cast bullet manual-

#358311 158 gr cast of lino

imr4227 starting load 11.8 gr 977fps

max load 17gr(compressed) 1345fps

so it looks like it is a bad choice for the magnum loads you are looking for because h110 will give 1460fps with 500c.u.p. less pressure

use common sense and use this data at your own risk

[357shooter]

lyman third edition cast bullet manual-

#358311 158 gr cast of lino

imr4227 starting load 11.8 gr 977fps

max load 17gr(compressed) 1345fps

so it looks like it is a bad choice for the magnum loads you are looking for because h110 will give 1460fps with 500c.u.p. less pressure

use common sense and use this data at your own risk
Thanks for the data. Looks like it's not what I'm looking for. I was hopeful as it's on hand already... but I can move on to something else.

Might try some h110 or 2400.
Thanks again.

[helice]

Since you've decided to try something new you might look into Hodgdon's Lil'Gun. It was originally made for the 410 but it's really impressive in the 357 Mag. Just a thought!:p

[lylejb]

H110 / win 296 will get you the velocity you want, but are somewhat limited to hot loads only. These powders cannot be reduced much. winchester warns not to reduce 296 loads more than 3%. I've used some in 357, and a bunch in 44 mag. Be warned, these loads are in big boom / flash / recoil territory. The flash from my 44 at dusk is very impressive.

Blue dot may get there as well, and would allow you more flexibility to reduce the load if you wanted to.

2400 is the classic magnum powder. The loads typically don't reach quite as much velocity as 296, but it's close enough.

I haven't personally tried any lil gun. Ive heard rumors about excessive flame erosion, don't know if that's actually true or not. Anyway, I don't really need / want any higher than 296 will do.

[357shooter]

Since you've decided to try something new you might look into Hodgdon's Lil'Gun. It was originally made for the 410 but it's really impressive in the 357 Mag. Just a thought!:pGood thought. The local Bass Pro even has some in stock (well they did the other day...).

Sometimes what I try is base on, what's in stock that I can buy.

[JeffinNZ]

For the record all NEW H4227 and IMR4227 is EXACTLY the same powder ex ADI in AU. Check out the MSDS on Hodgdon if you don't believe me.

[AZ-Stew]

Find something that's accurate and low pressure.

It took me 30+ years to figure this out.

A deer shot with a 1350 fps load won't know the difference if he's shot with a 1450 fps load. Punch a hole in both lungs and you have your jerky in hand. That's the point. Be able to put a hole through both lungs. Accuracy will do this. Speed won't. Low pressure loads preserve your guns. 30 years from now you'll thank the low pressure loads for the great condition of your firearms. I wish someone had been able to convince me of this 30 years ago. My Smith "Dirty Harry" special, M-29 6.5" would still be in near factory original condition, rather than in slightly loose condition, as it is now. It's not wrecked or worn out, it could just use a trip to the factory for a tune-up. Lighter loads would have eliminated this wear.

Regards,

Stew

[357shooter]

For the record all NEW H4227 and IMR4227 is EXACTLY the same powder ex ADI in AU. Check out the MSDS on Hodgdon if you don't believe me.
Thanks, I did check it out and you are 100% right!

[NSP64]

Find something that's accurate and low pressure.

Punch a hole in both lungs and you have your jerky in hand.

Stew



Exactly! If it can be done with a 500gr arrow @ 265fps it can be done with a gun.

[S.R.Custom]

For the record all NEW H4227 and IMR4227 is EXACTLY the same powder ex ADI in AU. Check out the MSDS on Hodgdon if you don't believe me.

Make damn sure that blue-grey labled bottle of IMR4227 you have says "Manufactured in Australia" on it somewhere before you make that assumption.

When Hodgdon first took over IMR, there was a period of time where both IMR4227 and H4227 were made and sold by Hodgdon; the H4227 was made in Oz, and the IMR4227 was made in Canada for a while, and the IMR 4227 bottles did indeed say "made in Canada" on them.

In other words, there are two kinds of 4227 floating around out there in those blue-grey labled black plastic Hodgdon bottles, and only the Oz made stuff should be used with the old H4227 data. (The Canadian made IMR4227 is faster, and can be problematic if used incorrectly.)

[357shooter]

Make damn sure that blue-grey labled bottle of IMR4227 you have says "Manufactured in Australia" on it somewhere before you make that assumption.

When Hodgdon first took over IMR, there was a period of time where both IMR4227 and H4227 were made and sold by Hodgdon; the H4227 was made in Oz, and the IMR4227 was made in Canada for a while, and the IMR 4227 bottles did indeed say "made in Canada" on them.

In other words, there are two kinds of 4227 floating around out there in those blue-grey labled black plastic Hodgdon bottles, and only the Oz made stuff should be used with the old H4227 data. (The Canadian made IMR4227 is faster, and can be problematic if used incorrectly.)

Bummer. Mine's made in Canada.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive used a ton of both powders and found little differnce in the burning rate. They were definaltely different though as accuracy would change dramaticaly sometimes. The new powder with the blue lable plastic can is suppose to be what h4227 used to be. At least thats whet i was told. I was told the old imr went away with the steel can.

[357shooter]

Ive used a ton of both powders and found little differnce in the burning rate. They were definaltely different though as accuracy would change dramaticaly sometimes. The new powder with the blue lable plastic can is suppose to be what h4227 used to be. At least thats whet i was told. I was told the old imr went away with the steel can.
Think I'll call IMR today and see if I can get a response from them. My platice container w/the pale blue label says "manufactured in Canada", there's not doubt about that.

[GP100man]

I run 15.5 grs. of the canadian powder for 1325 fps from a 6" SS GP 100

This is under a Lee 158 gr. rnfp the sd was very low , I did`nt bring my notes or spread sheet on it but I think the sd was a single digit !

[S.R.Custom]

Think I'll call IMR today and see if I can get a response from them. My platice container w/the pale blue label says "manufactured in Canada", there's not doubt about that.

I'll be curious as to what they say... When I was at the SHOT Show this past January, I had a rather lengthy conversation with J.B. Hodgdon himself, and the information I've presented in my above post was pretty much confirmed by him. I say "pretty much" because I got the impression there was more to the story than what J.B. was letting on... and indeed there is.

I don't have time for it now, but I will post more on the matter this evening. But here's a hint of coming attractions: The current production of Oz made IMR4227 is actually NOT the same as the old Oz made H4227. But it's not the same as the old IMR4227, either. Confused? Stay tuned...

In the meantime, prgallo, the data to use for that 'old' IMR4227 you have is the old IMR data. If you need it, I can scan it and email you a copy if you don't have access to it yourself.

[357shooter]

I'll be curious as to what they say... When I was at the SHOT Show this past January, I had a rather lengthy conversation with J.B. Hodgdon himself, and the information I've presented in my above post was pretty much confirmed by him. I say "pretty much" because I got the impression there was more to the story than what J.B. was letting on... and indeed there is.

I don't have time for it now, but I will post more on the matter this evening. But here's a hint of coming attractions: The current production of Oz made IMR4227 is actually NOT the same as the old Oz made H4227. But it's not the same as the old IMR4227, either. Confused? Stay tuned...

In the meantime, prgallo, the data to use for that 'old' IMR4227 you have is the old IMR data. If you need it, I can scan it and email you a copy if you don't have access to it yourself.I don't have it and would really appreciate getting a copy scanned and sent. Thanks for the offer, it would help me make use of my powder already on the shelf.

[357shooter]

I just spoke with IMR (Hodgdon). I told them I have the IMR4227 made in Canada, but their web site only lists H4227. I asked them what recipes I should use:

The response was: "use the H4227 recipes from the website. Although the 2 powders are not the same powder, the recipes on the web site work for both and are good to use with the IMR4227 made in Canada."

Of course they don't comment on recipes listed elsewhere. So I'm good with using their website recipes as it came directly from them.

[Eutectic]

Noticing Hodgdon's website didn't show H-4227 in their product line a few months back.... I emailed them (Hodgdon) and asked if H-4227 was still offered.
Their response was that H-4227 had been discontinued.
It is good news for me that IMR4227 is now made in Australia. I prefer their's.... Has anyone seen a new IMR 4227 bottle with "Made in Australia" on it?

Eutectic

[S.R.Custom]

I don't have it and would really appreciate getting a copy scanned and sent. Thanks for the offer, it would help me make use of my powder already on the shelf.

I'll post it here. You may have to click on the pic twice to make it big enough to read. If it's not readable, PM me your email addy.

If you do decide to use the Hodgdon data, work up to the max loads carefully if their max is higher than what I've listed here. The earlier (Canadian) IMR4227 had a tendency to be a bit squirelly at max loadings.


...Has anyone seen a new IMR 4227 bottle with "Made in Australia" on it?

Dunno about where you are, but around here the Aussie IMR is all I can find anymore.

[357shooter]

I'll post it here. You may have to click on the pic twice to make it big enough to read. If it's not readable, PM me your email addy.

If you do decide to use the Hodgdon data, work up to the max loads carefully if their max is higher than what I've listed here. The earlier (Canadian) IMR4227 had a tendency to be a bit squirelly at max loadings.



Dunno about where you are, but around here the Aussie IMR is all I can find anymore.
Thanks for the information and scanning in their recipes. I'll check them out and take care if approaching their max.

I didn't ask for an explanation or history regarding the powders formulation and related load data.

I was focused on the plastic cannister of IMR 4227 that I bought 4 months ago, blue label and made in Canada. They were very quick and clear that the H4227 load data on the site is correct and safe. They have excellent customer service.

FYI, I'm located in Georgia. I can say that up until 4 months ago the Canadian IMR is still being sold here.

[pmeisel]

sometimes powder sits on retail shelves a long time....

[357shooter]

sometimes powder sits on retail shelves a long time....

I assume this means maybe IMR was wrong. I described the container, there was no doubt on their part. Age was not an issue for whatever reason. Either the description was enough to indicate the age or all the concern expressed here is unwarranted.

Doesn't matter to me either way. The manufacturer told me to use their recipe from their site. That's good for me.

[StarMetal]

To throw even more mix into the discussion a while back I called the Accurate Powder Co. After I got what I called for we started talking about where powder was made. I said something to the tune that Hodgdon bought the IMR plant up in Canada. I can't remember if he said Hodgdon bought it or Accurate bought it. He did say that Hodgdon's tried to get an Aussie powder company make their Pyrodex and they flat out said no. He named a few powder plants and there's not a lot of them, excluding the foreign ones. I think he said there's the one down in Florida that makes ball powder, maybe for or by Olin. They make some out west, then the Canadian plant we're discussing. I have a plastic bottle of IMR 4227 and mines made in Canada also. I bought this way more then a year ago. So if the new IMR 4227 is being made in Australia maybe Hodgdon didn't buy the old IMR plant in Canada. Something how they are so secretive about where it's made and try to keep us confused when it's the formula that you would think would be really hush hush from them.

[JeffinNZ]

All I know is the Hodgdon MSDS shows both 4227's are AR2205 out of ADI.

Interestingly thought H4198 is AR2207 but IMR4198 is AR2215 (not commercially available).

[357shooter]

To throw even more mix into the discussion a while back I called the Accurate Powder Co. After I got what I called for we started talking about where powder was made. I said something to the tune that Hodgdon bought the IMR plant up in Canada. I can't remember if he said Hodgdon bought it or Accurate bought it. He did say that Hodgdon's tried to get an Aussie powder company make their Pyrodex and they flat out said no. He named a few powder plants and there's not a lot of them, excluding the foreign ones. I think he said there's the one down in Florida that makes ball powder, maybe for or by Olin. They make some out west, then the Canadian plant we're discussing. I have a plastic bottle of IMR 4227 and mines made in Canada also. I bought this way more then a year ago. So if the new IMR 4227 is being made in Australia maybe Hodgdon didn't buy the old IMR plant in Canada. Something how they are so secretive about where it's made and try to keep us confused when it's the formula that you would think would be really hush hush from them.

The IMR number I called answered "Hodgdon". They are the ones that said to use the same load data from the website for the Canadian made IMR 4227, which is obviously still being made there.

I think it's less confusing than it's made out to be. Hodgdon bought IMR, the IMR4227 containers made in either Australia or Canada use the H4227 recipes from the website. Everyone can look up their number and call if they want.

[muffinman]

I know this thread is five years old, it came up doing a IMR 4227 search. Thought it was odd that I bought some IMR 4227 today at Bass pro that says made in Canada. Thought it was all made in Oz now.

[texassako]

I know this thread is five years old, it came up doing a IMR 4227 search. Thought it was odd that I bought some IMR 4227 today at Bass pro that says made in Canada. Thought it was all made in Oz now.

It has been being made in Canada again for a while now. Mine has a 1/14 date I think without looking. There is a discussion somewhere around here last year about the switch back to Canada.

[Ford SD]

Hi again,

So I have some IMR4227 on hand, bought 4 months ago. I can't tell if where it was made, at least I didn't see any indication on the label.

Most all of the recipe's call for H427. The Lee manual actually shows IMR4227 for the 158 lead bullets, but I was hoping for some "magnum" loads. In the 1,500 FPS range. Just for fun.

Can someone point me to some loading data that useful? The Hodgdon site (even the IMRpowder.com site) end up showing the H4227 recipes.

I really like this powder under 158 SWC in a 38 Special and was hoping to load up something hotter for the 357.

Thanks for any info, I'll keep searching and have also sent an email to IMR to see what they say.

If the powder I have can use the H427 data with those velocties that would be great, but I'm not to sure that works. Depends if they are now the same powders.


If it was me I would not use IMR 4227 or H 4227 for 357 mag loads for one reason-----> you will get less than 600 rounds to a lb of power

if you have Made in canada Powder you still can find old data for it

one of my best cast rifle loads uses the canada made powder and I have less than a pound left the h is just not the same