Trail Boss in the 30 - 06

[Ben]

I'm beginning to read more about TrailBoss being used in reduced loads in bottle neck cases.

I loaded 12.3 grs. of TrailBoss behind a SAECO # 315 HP, sized .310" and primed with a Wolf LR Primer.

I seated the nose of the bullet lightly into the lands.

I was amazed at the group. A very accurate load.

I came back to the loading bench and loaded more !

Out of curiosity, I willfully tried to throw 24.6 grs. ( a double charge of the load that had shot so accurately ) of Trail boss into a 30 / 06 case, just to see if it was possible to throw 2 charges of 12.3 grs. into a 30 - 06 case ( A Double Charge ) IT CAN'T BE DONE ! !

24.6 grs. overfills the case and powder spills out onto your bench.

So, If you'd like to shoot an accurate reduced load in an 06' without the fear of a " double charge ", TrailBoss is a good place to start looking.

Ben

[Calamity Jake]

There's a very good artical in the April Handloader mag on Trailboss in botle necked cases.

[Ben]

Calamity Jake :

Yes, I've looked at that particular magazine article. It was a very good article, that article is probably what prompted me the most to try TrailBoss.

BTW, I tried to use 2 different powder measures to throw my 12.3 gr. charge of TrailBoss. No luck, the charges were all over the place( 12.1, 12.4 , 12.6, 12.2 , etc.. TrailBoss doesn't work through a powder measure very well ( for me ) .

I ended up doing it the hard way with my oil dampened scale and a Lee Spoon, and a trickler, but the results down range were well worth it.

Ben

[Calamity Jake]

I've thrown Trailboss thru a RCBS Uniflow and a Dillon and did not have that much trouble.
About .3 veriation which I didn't worry about.

[Ben]

Mine had a shade more than .3

Maybe I'm over doing it, but I like my powder charges in rifle cartridges to be " dead nuts on " if at all possible.

Ben

[excavman]

I don't have any problems throwing uniform charges of TB with my Lyman 55 measure. I read somewhere that 9 grs of TB is a good starting point for all bottle neck rounds in the 30-06,308 range. I plan to load some Krag brass with it tomorrow behind the 311466 boolit.

Larry

[3006guns]

You'll like the reduced Trail Boss loads....I've been fooling around with them for awhile now in my milsurps. 9 grs. seems to be the starting point for most common military size rifle cartridges and you can use plain base boolits for the ultimate "cheap" round. Check their website for the latest poop on bottleneck cases.

I had trouble with my RCBS Uniflow also. I was curious how it would work with this new "cheerios" powder, so I dropped the same charge about 10 times and weighed each. Good thing too, as the powder would drop light twice then suddenly dump the overcharge on the third try. Now, an overcharge with TB wouldn't be disasterous (except to accuracy) but I went to using Lee dippers instead. Slower, but a heck of a lot more uniform. I have one of the old Lyman measures so maybe I'll break it out and try again.

[Ben]

3006guns :

I didn't have any luck at all with 2 different powder measures throwing charges of T/Boss. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm like you , however, in that my results were less than ideal and didn't meet my standards for uniformity of powder charges.

Ben

[Thecyberguy]

I have been using TB in my 270 and in my 223 and 44 mag.

I used my Lee disk measure on my turret press for the 223 and the 44. It seemed to work great. I would run a load and dump it on my scale. Then run it again in the case. It metered quite well. I had no issues.
The 270 I used my Lee scoops. I dumped random scoops on the scale and it was good. Not as close as the smaller charges from the disk measure, but still pretty uniform.

I have found TB to be quite accurate. Several of us at Handloadersbench have been playing with it. Some targets listed here. http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum91/11851.html

Have a good 'un, Guy

[lylejb]

I haven't tried it in rifle, yet:D

I've loaded lots of 38 spec with 2.6gr from a lyman 55 measure with no problems.

checking with an rcbs scale, + - .1

throw 10 charges, it weighs 26.0 + - about .2 or .3

I like it, maybe I'm just lucky....

[Tomkitty]

I have been using Lyman 311466 cast boolits (no gas check) and charges of 9, 9.5, and 10 grs Trail Boss in my 30-06 with very accurate results. It shoots about 2" at 100 yds from my 1917 Enfield and my Ruger #1. Velocity is around 1100 fps and almost no recoil. I am dropping these charges from my old Lyman #55 measure and they come out just fine as long as you use the built-in knocker after EVERY dump.

[walltube]

Dear me, I must have built my house on an ancient sacred burial ground or something. Gotta be bad gris-gris.

Some three wks. ago I fired 25 rnds. of '06 through a lightly used Rem.700. The projectiles were 183 gr. SAECO 307 sized .309, R-P brass, Win.LR primer lighting off 11.5 gr. T'Boss. Each dose of T'Boss was measured on a PACT scale. Trying to get satifaction with T'Boss and a Redding measure filled my mind with impure thoughts towards both. :)

First round sent downrange @ 50 yds. produced a very mild recoil, almost like a .22 rimfire. Had I not seen a hole in the lower left corner of the target I would have immediately thought the boolit were stuck somewhere in the barrell! The spent brass' neck was smoked, the primer did protrude from the pocket. All signs of too mild a load.


Successive rounds were no different. In my frustration, I broke out five, "let's see what this might do", rounds of the same batch loaded with 12grs. of T'Boss. More recoil & noise, same results with brass. What the...! The guys at CB do this every day with less powder. No such comments from them fellers.

I went home and sat in a darkened room for 3 hrs.

O.K. men, there you have it. Beat my knuckles with an 18" oak ruler if you must, where did I go wrong?

PS: all brass was resized to the maximum of an L.E. Wilson .30-'06 case gauge.

Wt.

[excavman]

Test results from yesterday:
270win 125 Lee gc boolit 8 grs TB 1115, 1130, 1125
270win 125 Lee gc boolit 9 grs TB 1230, 1226, 1213 --- 1.5"/100yds

Larry

[leadman]

I have not tried TB yet, but when I load SR4759 with cast in my '06 I use fireformed brass and a Lee Collet die. Expand the neck a little with a Lyman M die and load. This has eleminated smoked cases for me.

[Timmer]

I have not gotten to the 100 yard range but using a Ruger M77 Mk2 at 50 yards from a benchrest I shot three consecutive targets that range from 1" to 7/16" for 3 shots. Bullet is a cast Lyman 311291 sized to .309". Weight with gas check and Lee alox is 171 grains. Powder is Trail Boss at 16.0 grains. Primer is WLR. The case is a sized and trimmed Remington Peters once fired. The OAL is 3.080 inches (measured). The powder charge fills the case to about the bottom of the neck. The groups strike about 2 1/2" lower than the point of aim and 1/2" to the right in my rifle. Has anyone tried this combo at 100 yards?

[chuebner]

Just this morning I tested 30 rounds of 30-06 for my 03A3 using 10,11 and 12 gr of trail Boss under a 311299 sized at .311. Each of the loads shot around 1" at 50yds. using the issue sights. POI varied some with the different charge weights. I plan to up the charges with 13, 14 and 15 gr. loads just to see if anything changes but it seems the lowers charges work quite well.

charlie

[nanuk]

PS: all brass was resized to the maximum of an L.E. Wilson .30-'06 case gauge.




can you try it without resizing? or just neck sizing just enough to hold the boolit?

[TNsailorman]

Ben, call the IMR help line at 913-362-9455 and talk to the representative there. He's is very interesting and can give you several pointers on using the TrailBoss in a wide variety of cases, not just the 30-06. He is a very helpful guy and best of all, he shoots the stuff himself in a variety of rifles. He has a quick and easy formula to start loading with TB in just about anything except muzzleloaders, in which he says TB is not suitable. I am waiting for the weather to break to get back out to the range with some loads for my .43 Spanish and 8x57 mauser. I'm also going to give it a try in my .44-40 and .41 magnum. btw, I gave up on the RCBS powder measure and weigh by electronic scale now when weighing TB. James

[nanuk]

why is TB not appropriate in a Muzzleloader? Sounds like it would be a perfect substitute.

if it is good for a caseful of TB in a 50-110, then the same amount should work in a well made MZ.

What am I missing?

[HORNET]

nanuk: Powder compression. I believe they've recommended against ANY powder compression in Trail Boss loads. I believe the burning rate changes dramatically if compressed.

[Ben]

nanuk :

What am I missing?

Most likely ...........you're missing the concept of Pressure.

TB is a fairly quick burning smokeless powder. Would most likely wreck a ML.

I doubt that any of the personnel answering the phone at IMR ( 913-362-9455 ) would recommend anything like this.

[wallenba]

I've been using it in my milsurps for 'fun' shooting and get great results. With the IMR formula it's easy and safe. > http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf
JUST DON'T COMPRESS IT!

[saz]

Dear me, I must have built my house on an ancient sacred burial ground or something. Gotta be bad gris-gris.

Some three wks. ago I fired 25 rnds. of '06 through a lightly used Rem.700. The projectiles were 183 gr. SAECO 307 sized .309, R-P brass, Win.LR primer lighting off 11.5 gr. T'Boss. Each dose of T'Boss was measured on a PACT scale. Trying to get satifaction with T'Boss and a Redding measure filled my mind with impure thoughts towards both. :)

First round sent downrange @ 50 yds. produced a very mild recoil, almost like a .22 rimfire. Had I not seen a hole in the lower left corner of the target I would have immediately thought the boolit were stuck somewhere in the barrell! The spent brass' neck was smoked, the primer did protrude from the pocket. All signs of too mild a load.


Successive rounds were no different. In my frustration, I broke out five, "let's see what this might do", rounds of the same batch loaded with 12grs. of T'Boss. More recoil & noise, same results with brass. What the...! The guys at CB do this every day with less powder. No such comments from them fellers.

I went home and sat in a darkened room for 3 hrs.

O.K. men, there you have it. Beat my knuckles with an 18" oak ruler if you must, where did I go wrong?

PS: all brass was resized to the maximum of an L.E. Wilson .30-'06 case gauge.

Wt.



Try annealing your brass. Sounds like you have some stiff case necks. Had the same issue with some starline 454 brass.

[DukeInFlorida]

Ok, I'm not a total expert on the use of Trail Boss powder, but I have been using it for a while now.

1) It's impossible to use too much. That is to say, you can fill the case to the bottom of a seated bullet, and you'll never be over pressure.

2) DO NOT CRUSH THE DONUTS!! Meaning..... do not seat the bullet and compress Trail Boss. That's dangerous. Align the bullet alongside a case, in the position to which it would be seated. Mark the case. You can fill the case up to that line with Trail Boss, but not more than that. So, after filling to the line, dump the powder on to your scale, and weigh it. That's the dispense weight.

I first started using it to tame my mighty S&W .500 Magnum. Everyone loves shooting that gun now. Heavy 460 grain bullets feel like mere 357 magnums.

I'm working on getting a 44 magnum revolver, and will load some of those with TB also. For the same reason.

Somewhere out there is a copy of a press release from Hodgdon, indicating how it can be used for any cartridge. Here's a link to that pdf file:
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

That's an official Hodgdon document! Use the info as you wish.

Safe reloading!


nanuk: Powder compression. I believe they've recommended against ANY powder compression in Trail Boss loads. I believe the burning rate changes dramatically if compressed.

[old turtle]

The Handoader just had an article on Trail Boss in larger cases. Seemed (as I remember) they suggested about 75 percent fill. You might check it out as my memory is not what it used to be.

[old turtle]

Sorry! I missed an earlier reply. did not mean to clutter up the info.

[nanuk]

you don't need to compress powder in a MZ though, just mark the ramrod and seat to the measured depth, same as is recommended with a flintlock.

I understand pressure and compression, what I don't understand is why a powder is low pressure in a cartridge, and an overload in the same situation in a MZ.

[NHlever]

Don't asume that because the velocities with Trail Boss are low that the pressure also is. Some pressure tested loads I've seen using Trail Boss have shown surprisingly high, but absolutely safe, pressures.

[kelbro]

Don't asume that because the velocities with Trail Boss are low that the pressure also is. Some pressure tested loads I've seen using Trail Boss have shown surprisingly, but absolutely safe, pressures.

Agreed. It takes a good deal of pressure to launch a projectile and drive it through an engraved barrel to the target.

[nanuk]

agreed, but when the pressure testing data shows low pressure, we can assume it is correct.

when the data shows TB at, say, 100% case full to have the same pressure as FFG in a case full, Why then can we not interpolate that.

a MZ wil start a boolit easier as it is slip fit, as opposed to needing engraving.

I'm just thinking out loud here guys.
this kind of information helps me understand other areas as well.

thanks for the replies.