Ruger SBH 44 or BH45

[don45]

I've been looking for a 44 SBH 5 1/2 for some time but all the SBH's seem to be on backorder. Today I found two BH 45 combos, one 5 1/2 and the other 4 5/8.
I have loaded 44 Mag for years for a T/C and .357 for several BH's, Colts and S&W's. I have all the reloading stuff for 44 including 3 molds. I've also loaded tons of 45 ACP and have a Dillon 650 set up for it. I've never owned or even shot a 45 LC. I always thought the LC was .454 but it seems these combo Rugers are likely to be .451 with .452 bullets. Looks like I might be able to use my 45ACP .452 lub-sizer die. Learning about all this, cylinder throat size, bore grove size and relation to bullet size, is what brought me to you guys to start with.

My first question is should I just wait for a 44 to show up, or go for the 45? I don't live in bear country and will shooting mostly at the range. I will only be shooting moderate loads with cast boolits. Hope I haven't start some kind of war:!:

My second question has to do with a difference I noticed in the two BH's? The front sight on the shorter bbl model is lower by almost 1/16". I think you can even see this on the Ruger web page. I remember seeing here something about the front sight being too low for 300gr bullets but don't think that will be a concern since I don't plan on shooting those. Another thing odd about this sight difference is that their serial numbers of these two guns are about 3 or 4 apart so it's not an age difference. Any concern about sight height? I'll go for the 5 1/2 bbl.

Thanks,
Don

[btroj]

I have a 4 5/8 45 Colt. I opened the throats on mine to 452 or so- they were 450 and it leaded like nothing else.
It's a very easy gun to load for. It will also handle loads that I really don't enjoy shooting from anything that light. The recoil really turns the gun up in my hands and it's tough on my wrists.
I size bullets to 452 with no trouble.
Go for the 45. You might really like it.

[frankenfab]

"It will also handle loads that I really don't enjoy shooting from anything that light."

Yup!

300 gr. bullets @ 1300 FPS sucks in those guns!

But they are awesome sidearms!:brokenima

[ole 5 hole group]

Most BlackHawks I've been around will shoot high, in some cases very high at 25 yards and sometimes at 50 yards also. If the front sights aren't replaceable, I'd opt for the BH with the tallest looking front sight. I'll take a 45Colt BH any day over a 44 magnum but both are mighty fine calibers.

[44man]

Most BlackHawks I've been around will shoot high, in some cases very high at 25 yards and sometimes at 50 yards also. If the front sights aren't replaceable, I'd opt for the BH with the tallest looking front sight. I'll take a 45Colt BH any day over a 44 magnum but both are mighty fine calibers.
This is so hard to say like that. Both are a love affair so the best thing is to have both.

[MtGun44]

MY BH convertible came with VERY tight throats, .449 and .450 for the two cylinders, with
.452 groove diam (IIRC, maybe .451). There is an old post about my reaming and polishing the throats up
to .453 in the gunsmithing section.

I don't know how current BH in .45 convertible version are running in the throats, but in the
past a lot were very tight. Costs ~$40-60 to get a cyl opened up.

[gon2shoot]

I have a couple of both, the 5 1/2" 45 is on my hip even when I'm shooting somthing else. nuff said?

[spqrzilla]

I'm pretty fond of my 4 5/8ths Blackhawk in .45 Colt. They'll do all the .44 Mag will do and more. Very handy field guns.

[BCB]

I have a 45LC Blackhawk and I shoot the 45-270-SAA (283 grains) @ a muzzle velocity of around 1250 fps with H-110 or Lil’Gun…

I have no problems at all getting it to hit at point of aim at 25 or 50 yards…

Lighter loads at the 1000 fps mark will hit at another point of impact, but that is known. That is the only part that I dislike about shooting full power loads and then shooting average loads. But that’s the way it is…

I sure like mine. I don’t know if it will do what my SRH 44 Magnum will do, but it is dang close…

Good-luck…BCB

[EDK]

I'd do some research on some of the issues with reloading 45 colt. RUGER has addressed some of the issues like over-sized throats.

Either caliber, I'd get a stainless steel gun just so I could more easily change the front sight...if required. My personal preference is the 5.5 inch 44 magnum, with a DRAGOON/HUNTER or BISLEY grip frame. BUT a stainless 5.5 inch 45 colt/45 ACP BISLEY is high on my wish list.

REMEMBER Uncle Ed's laws.
If you got to load maximum, you need a bigger gun.
If you can't shoot cast boolits in it, forget it.
If they don't make carbide dies for it, do you really want to spend that much time reloading.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[HeavyMetal]

I've shot both and found the Bisley gripped 45 Colt, no matter how hot the load, more comfortable to shoot.

Haven't handled a Stainless BH but think it might balance better because the grip frame wouldn't be aluminum. But would have to play with a bunch of them before I layed down any cash.

That's my two cents.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Never owned or shot a 45LC! Then it is high time you get one. The 45LC is a great caliber and my personal favorite. 44s are good but I would take a Ruger 45 any day.

[a.squibload]

Agree with 44man, get both, then send me the one you don't like!

Longer barrel should have taller sights, boolit is in there longer, so starts with lower point of aim.
My 7½" SBH was my favorite for IHMSA, sighted in at 200m, easier to hold low for closer range
than to hold high for longer range. Holding high can obscure target, and closer range is
easier to estimate how high or low to hold.

OK, I just confused myself...

[missionary5155]

Good morning
IF I shot the 44 I would stick with it unless you want to get spoiled with the 45 and realise you should have gone 45 to start with.
Years ago I got to shoot a friends 45 BH down in Chattanooga (1980)... out went the 44 SBH real fast. No regrets !
But I also have 41 mag BH´s and others so the 44 would be redundant. GREAT caliber.. but so are others.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive found that at least with rugers its easier to find an accurate 44 then it is a 45colt. I probably spend twice the time on load developement for an average 45 then a 44. Most 45 colt rugers at least need the chambers reamed to shoot cast well and some are very finiky even afterward. Im a 44 mag man. I shoot them more then probably all the rest of my guns combined. I do own 6 45 colts right now and have had many more and have taken alot of game with them. for a while I just had to have 45 colts it was the cult thing i guess. What did i learn? 44mags do the same thing and are easier to work with. Brass, molds and bullets are easier to come by too. Just the last couple weeks ive been benching a clements custom 45 colt i had built a few years ago and a new 4 5/8s blackhawk (large frame) and for the most part the best im getting so far is 2 inch at 25 yards out of either and ive probably shot 2000 rounds testing differnt bullets powders and primers. I can take about any ruger 44 mag and try one of about 5 proven loads i have for 44s and probably id bet that at least two of those loads will shoot into an inch at 25 yards. Im not bashing the 45. Like i say id do own a few and do still use them but if i was going to be left with only one big bore sixgun it would DEFINATELY sat 44 mag on it somewhere.

[44man]

Ive found that at least with rugers its easier to find an accurate 44 then it is a 45colt. I probably spend twice the time on load developement for an average 45 then a 44. Most 45 colt rugers at least need the chambers reamed to shoot cast well and some are very finiky even afterward. Im a 44 mag man. I shoot them more then probably all the rest of my guns combined. I do own 6 45 colts right now and have had many more and have taken alot of game with them. for a while I just had to have 45 colts it was the cult thing i guess. What did i learn? 44mags do the same thing and are easier to work with. Brass, molds and bullets are easier to come by too. Just the last couple weeks ive been benching a clements custom 45 colt i had built a few years ago and a new 4 5/8s blackhawk (large frame) and for the most part the best im getting so far is 2 inch at 25 yards out of either and ive probably shot 2000 rounds testing differnt bullets powders and primers. I can take about any ruger 44 mag and try one of about 5 proven loads i have for 44s and probably id bet that at least two of those loads will shoot into an inch at 25 yards. Im not bashing the 45. Like i say id do own a few and do still use them but if i was going to be left with only one big bore sixgun it would DEFINATELY sat 44 mag on it somewhere.
I see your problem, you done went and plumb wore out those .45's! ;)
Now you have to send em to me, I can relign the bores with lead, makes em tight again! [smilie=w:

[RobS]

In the grand scheme of things you already have more of a setup for the 44 magnum with more molds (I am assuming you have a better range of bullet weights with the 44 cal vs the 45 cal). Everything else regarding reloading it sounds like is on level ground so there wouldn't be any other possible expenses as I see it.

As for the two revolvers, I traded with a friend a Dillon press for a 45 BH. He had work done to the cylinders as they were undersized so this aspect corresponds with what others have experienced with Ruger's poor fit to the 45 cal. I also had to fire lap this one as there was a tight spot where the barrel screwed into the frame. With this though the gun shot very well and load development was like any other gun I've owned in that I had good results with most loads and excellent results with a handful of loads. I then sold off the BH for a Ruger 454 Casull SRH to find a revolver which had out of normal specs either from the factory or from the individual that I purchased it from (I suspect it was the individual before me). Never the less both 45's shot/shoot with good accuracy (open sights 6 shot groups under 2", usually 1 to 1 1/2", for 30-35 yrds).

The 44 cal Rugers in my experience have been great from the get go. I just recently converted my father into a cast boolit-a-holic and he has himself two Rugers, one a Redhawk and the other a Super Redhawk. They both had perfect specs with .431 cylinder throats and .429 ish groove diameters when he received them. I shot his Redhawk and would say if I handled it more that I would be shooting groups at par with the 45's.

I see two cartridges that are both very good options with the 44 mag shooting lighter bullets faster while keeping pressures at SAAMI levels and the 45 colt possibly handling heavier bullets better (360 grainers). It comes down to what floats your boat I guess and if you want to venture down a new path. Keep us posted.

[RayinNH]

I can't add too much to what has already been mentioned. I have both and enjoy them equally. By and large one will do what the other will do. Brass for the .44 Mag is probably slightly more available than .45 Colt. Brass availability for the .44 Special is similar to .45 Colt. Now if you buy the .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible version, now brass availability goes waaaay up. Since you already load for .45 ACP, you have everything you need...Ray

[ole 5 hole group]

Just the last couple weeks ive been benching a clements custom 45 colt i had built a few years ago and a new 4 5/8s blackhawk (large frame) and for the most part the best im getting so far is 2 inch at 25 yards out of either and ive probably shot 2000 rounds testing differnt bullets powders and primers.

Now that could lead to a life changing event or quite possibility to a combination of cuss words never heard before. I'll give ya credit for being a gun powder junkie firing a 1,000 rounds a week in an attempt to get a "superb customized" revolver to consistently shoot a decent group. A 2" group at 25 yards rested isn't all that bad but when you pay several thousand dollars for a revolver that was put together by one of the best gunsmiths in our fine country - and it can't outshoot most of the other big bore revolvers in your collection - it could very well effect your mind in such a way, as to think if you could only have one big bore revolver, it would have to possess the words “ 44 Magnum” stamped on the barrel.:D

[bbailey7821]

Those are both great catridges! You should get what you want! I've shot over 20,000 silhouettes loads from my Stainless SBH. It's now been converted to a 4-5/8 hunting sidearm. Still shoots great after 20 yrs.

[don45]

Thanks for all the GREAT input. Now I have to digest it all. I have a 44 SBH (5 1/2 blue) on order and I may pick up the 45 BH (4 5/8 blue) tomorrow. Thanks for helping me spend my money:bigsmyl2:. There are three cartridges I've shot by the thousands, 357, 44 Mag and especially 45ACP. I think I could pay the national debt with my ACP brass. I also have a C-H 3 station H press which I love. It has the 45 ACP hollow expander which I think is just right for the 45 LC also. Just a die set and three shell holders and I think this will work.
I do have one additional question. BCB, you mentioned the RCBS 45-270. That seems too heavy for me but I read good things about the 45-255. On Midway, this lists as .454, and a buyer comment mentions too heavy sizing down to .452. Lyman and SAECO seem to list both .452 and .454 size molds. Is the RCBS available as a .452? Does sizing it down to .452 present a problem? Also, Gon2shoot, how do you store this on your hip? I'm rather familiar with 1911 holsters but don't have a clue about these.

Thanks again

[BCB]

don45,

My RCBS 45-270-SAA drops boolits at 0.4545”± 0.0001”. (Dang accurate Starrett micrometer from years gone by!). As far as I know, it isn't available in 0.452"...

I am sizing them in an RCBS sizing die that indicates 0.454”, but it sizes down to 0.4535”±…

I can’t imagine having a problem going down to 0.452” at all. I size other calibers down much more than 2 or 3 thousandths…

Others on here may have actual experience with the 45-270-SAA and sizing it to 0.452”…

Good-luck…BCB

[AZ-Stew]

My second question has to do with a difference I noticed in the two BH's? The front sight on the shorter bbl model is lower by almost 1/16". I think you can even see this on the Ruger web page. I remember seeing here something about the front sight being too low for 300gr bullets but don't think that will be a concern since I don't plan on shooting those. Another thing odd about this sight difference is that their serial numbers of these two guns are about 3 or 4 apart so it's not an age difference. Any concern about sight height? I'll go for the 5 1/2 bbl.

Thanks,
Don

Shorter barrels require less front sight height.

When you aim a handgun at the target, the line if sight across the firearm's sights is a perfectly straight line. In order to get the bullet to hit the target where the sights are pointed, the barrel must be pointed down with respect to the line of sight. As the bullet is fired, recoil begins and the barrel rises. The amount of rise is proportional to bullet weight and the acceleration of the bullet. The heavier the bullet and the faster you drive it, the more the muzzle will rise before the bullet exits. The longer the barrel, the more the muzzle will rise before the bullet exits - this is why the longer barrel needs a taller front sight. At the instant the bullet exits the muzzle, it begins to drop, due to the effect of gravity. It will continue to drop until it hits the ground, somewhere behind the target. Since it is dropping all the way to the target, the bullet must exit the muzzle with the barrel pointed slightly upward with respect to the line of sight.

As you can see, this is a balancing act. If you have a fixed-sight handgun that shoots high with standard bullets for that weight, either have a gunsmith install a taller front sight or start shooting lighter bullets. The inverse is true for a revolver that shoots low. Use heavier bullets or shorten the front sight.

As for the .44/.45 dilemma, I've been shooting both for 30-35 years. I shoot heavy loads from my .44s (Smiths) and standard to moderate loads from my Blackhawk .45 4.5 inch. Since I have the .44s I see no need to hot rod the .45. If I could afford them, I'd buy a consecutive pair of USFA .45s in 4-3/4. I deeply regret not buying the pair of consecutive genuine Colts that were in a gun shop in Tombstone, AZ, about 10 years ago. I had the $$, I just couldn't force myself to spend them. I didn't twist my arm hard enough.

The .44 will kill anything walking using a Lyman 429421 SWC, or any equivalent. The .45 is also plenty potent, even in moderate loadings, using the 452424 SWC. I understand the RCBS 270gr SWC is also a real mean boolit, though I don't have that mould. I particularly like the loud "SLAP" I hear when that 452424 hits anything in its path. I don't think it NEEDS to be hot rodded. Shoot it with moderate loads, enjoy the shooting and fear nothing when carrying it.

Regards,

Stew

[RayinNH]

Don, .454 was the standard dimensions of yesteryear. Today it's been standardized at .452, that is when they get it right. Sizing to .452 will be no problem at all, after all that's only one thousandth per side. A human hair is about 2-3 thousandths. I use boolits 454424 and 454190 for my .45 Colts. The Italian clone likes .454, the Ruger .452, but I have been known to switch diameters among the guns with no noticeable loss in accuracy. You may find the Ruger will shoot them just fine at .454 as well.

You have to remember lead boolits are much softer than jacketed bullets. The gun barrel makes a darn good sizing die on that little difference in size...Ray