H450

[clearwater]

I have a few pounds of H450 that I should be using up before it
turns.

Anyone use it in cast bullet loads with success in 30-06,
308 or 30-40? I have some nice cast bullets in 170 grain and
220 grain both with gas checks.

or 7x57 with 135 grain cast gc

or 25-06 with 100 grain cast gc

[wiljen]

H450 was a great jacketed bullet powder in 25-06 and 270 so I imagine it would be good in 30-06 as well. Being a ball powder it may react poorly to reduced charges and be best reserved for Jacketed loads in the above mentioned rounds. Also worth noting, H450 was the most temperature sensitive powder I have ever used and loads that show no pressure signs at 50F may very well be too hot at 85-90F. I remember this from some 270 loads years ago so test it on the hottest day you intend to use it.

[Bullshop]

I treat H450 as a ball form of 4831. If a desired load would call for something in the burn rate of 4831 but I run out of room in the case before top pressure is reached then I go to H450 to stay with the same burn rate but be able to fit more weight into the case.
It works good with boolits in the mid size cases like 7mm and 8mm Mauser because you can fill the case to 100% density and still stay within the max pressures that still work well with boolits, something well under 50,000 psi and closer to 40,000 psi.
Still though where it will fit the case and provide all the pressure wanted I prefer the extruded form of 4831. I think its easier to get a more consistent ignition with the extruded form, but not to say some excellent loads can not be found with the ball form.
BIC/BS

[madsenshooter]

I wish I had some H450 to use in my Krag! I have in the past used it in 30/06, my short barreled Madsen, quite a boomer with 165gr bullets. In either the .308 or 30/40 (since case capacity is nearly the same, but slightly more in the Krag), Lee's Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed, has a lot of cast data. It was one of those powders that likes magnum primers I recall. Without them, unburned granules fell back into the chamber to dent the next case loaded. Lee's .308 data ranges from 150gr - 225gr bullet. Starting charge is about 29gr @14,100psi, 1630fps with the 150, and ranges up to a max of 47gr with the 225gr@46,600psi, 2160fps. With lighter charges, I'm wondering, like Wiljen, about SEEs. I think Richard's data is somewhat extrapolated instead of actual testing. It was however made with the assistance of Hodgdon's lab. You'd think they'd throw up a red flag if they thought there was a danger of that. Sort of a "Wait a minute Dick, maybe you shouldn't publish that".

[BerdanIII]

I think there's some H450 data in the older Lyman manuals; I'll take a look.

[BerdanIII]

I couldn't find any cast bullet data for H450, just J-word. The H4831 data is from the same source for comparison. There was no H450 data for the .30-40 Krag.

Hodgdon H450 Data from Hodgdon #26, 1992

"This relatively slow burning spherical powder was designed to do the same kind of work that 4831 does. Success! H450 and H4831 do very close to the same thing in all rifle cartridges. (Please refer to the Hodgdon manual for correct loading data.) H450 works the same but may use different charge weights and could produce dramatically different results if our instructions are not followed to the letter. This powder is also excellent in the .25/06, 7mm Mag., .30/06, .270 and .300 Win. and Wby. Mag."

.25-06 Remington
75 gr - 52.5 to 57.0 - 3018 to 3502 fps - 32.4 k to 48.7 k CUP
55.0 to 59.0 - 3070 to 3525 - 36.8 k to 49.1 k - H4831

87-90 gr - 50.5 to 55.0 - 3042 to 3322 - 41.4 k to 47.9 k
54.0 to 58.0 - 2988 to 3414 - 36.9 k to 49.8 k - H4831

100 gr - 49.0 to 53.0 - 2740 to 3134 - 32.4 k to 47.9 k
51.0 to 55.0 - 2797 to 3294 - 38.1 k to 49.8 k - H4831

117 gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2694 to 2981 - 37.8 k to 48.4 k
48.0 to 52.0 - 2660 to 3076 - 37.4 k to 49.1 k - H4831

120 gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 2601 to 2995 - 36.6 k to 48.1 k
47.0 to 51.0 - 2626 to 3040 - 38.8 k to 49.4 k - H4831

7x57mm Mauser
100-gr - 52.0 to 55.0 - 2660 to 2940 fps - 31.0 k to 34.4 k CUP
51.0 to 54.0 - 2688 to 2886 - 30.0 k to 33.6 k - H4831

115-120 gr - 52.0 to 55.0 - 2738 to 2919 - 33.4 k to 42.9 k
51.0 to 54.0 - 2711 to 2844 - 32.0 k to 43.1 k - H4831

125-130 gr - 52.0 to 55.0 - 2720 to 2869 - 39.6 k to 47.0 k
50.0 to 53.0 - 2646 to 2763 - 35.4 k to 44.0 k - H4831

139-140 gr - 51.0 to 54.0 - 2629 to 2794 - 40.0 k to 47.4 k
50.0 to 53.0 - 2617 to 2757 - 46.4 k to 48.5 k - H4831

145-150 gr - 50.0 to 53.0 - 2544 to 2736 - 40.6 k to 48.0 k
49.0 to 52.0 - 2549 to 2662 - 40.4 k to 47.4 k - H4831

154-162 gr - 49.0 to 51.0 - 2423 to 2588 - 41.0 k to 46.8 k
47.0 to 50.0 - 2370 to 2597 - 39.9 k to 47.1 k - H4831

168 gr - 47.0 to 50.0 - 2342 to 2518 - 40.9 k to 47.7 k
46.0 to 49.0 - 2334 to 2563 - 41.4 k to 48.9 k - H4831

175 gr - 46.0 to 49.0 - 2249 to 2457 - 38.0 k to 47.4 k
45.0 to 48.0 - 2266 to 2443 - 38.8 k to 47.0 k - H4831

195-gr - 44.0 to 47.0 - 2150 to 2294 - 40.4 k to 48.2 k
43.0 to 46.0 - 2166 to 2289 - 42.0 k to 48.5 k - H4831

.308 Winchester
150 gr - 48.5 to 52.2 - 2392 to 2487 - 35.4 k to 43.6 k CUP
46.0 to 50.0 - 2166 to 2525 - 28.2 k to 37.2 k - H4831

165 gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 2184 to 2350 - 34.2 k to 40.1 k
46.0 to 50.0 - 2155 to 2469 - 28.8 k to 39.0 k - H4831

180 gr - 44.5 to 48.5 - 2134 to 2282 - 31.2 k to 43.3 k
45.0 to 49.0 - 2157 to 2455 - 29.4 k to 43.2 k - H4831

200 gr - 44.0 to 48.0 - 2105 to 2195 - 38.4 k to 42.9 k
44.0 to 48.0 - 2025 to 2361 - 30.6 k to 44.5 k - H4831

220-225 gr - 44.0 to 48.0 - 1961 to 2203 - 30.6 k to 42.4 k
43.0 to 47.0 - 1983 to 2286 - 31.8 k to 45.7 k - H4831

.30-'06 Government
110 gr - 61.0 to 66.0 - 2931 to 3016 - 42.6 k to 43.6 k CUP
56.0 to 61.0 - 2445 to 2778 - 26.3 k to 33.4 k - H4831

130 gr - 59.0 to 64.0 - 2688 to 2906 - 39.0 k to 44.3 k
56.5 to 61.5 - 2410 to 2846 - 33.0 k to 41.2 k - H4831

150 gr - 58.0 to 63.5 - 2620 to 2825 - 40.2 k to 48.0 k
56.0 to 61.0 - 2366 to 2825 - 30.0 k to 43.4 k - H4831

165-168 gr - 55.0 to 60.0 - 2480 to 2643 - 39.6 k to 43.7 k
56.0 to 61.0 - 2381 to 2770 - 34.8 k to 44.7 k - H4831

180 gr - 54.0 to 59.0 - 2374 to 2604 - 41.4 k to 48.2 k
55.0 to 60.0 - 2359 to 2737 - 36.6 k to 46.6 k - H4831

190 gr - 54.0 to 57.0 - 2294 to 2560 - 42.6 k to 47.6 k
55.0 to 59.0 - 2325 to 2710 - 37.4 to 48.2 k - H4831

200 gr - 51.5 to 56.0 - 2232 to 2455 - 36.6 k to 46.8 k
54.5 to 59.0 - 2278 to 2690 - 35.4 k to 46.8 k - H4831

220-225 gr - 52.5 to 57.0 - 2266 to 2423 - 43.2 k to 49.8 k
53.0 to 57.0 - 2227 to 2526 - 36.6 k to 50.8 k - H4831