357 sig

[pt4u2nv]

Been working for a couple of weeks to try to get a cast boolit to work in the 357 SIG. Tried several molds and finally got a boolit that seems to be working fairly well. It is the Lee 356-125-2R. The boolit has enough flat on the side to allow the small area on the bottleneck to grip the boolit the entire length of the neck . I have been working up a load and correct sizing to prevent leading and am getting there slowly. 2 problems right now I could use some expert advise on.

Sizing....bore groove dia. mics at .3551......356 sizer comes in at .3555....357 sizer comes in at .3563. Still getting a little leading at .3563 with a 5:2 mix of WW/ Lead with a little tin added for fillout BHN of about 14.3, 8.0 grs of AA#5. Accuracy seems best at that load.COL I am setting at 1.650 which is really long but chambers well and has no feeding problems. I am thinking to help with the leading I should try sizing with a .358 sizer to get a little larger boolit. Does this seem like the correct thing to do at this point? ? It should be noted I am getting some keyholing with higher loads of AA#5.

2nd problem is I am not real happy with the roll crimp I have had to use to hold the boolit and not get setback from the recoil. It is a pretty good crimp and when I pulled a booilt from an unfired case it is definetly sizing the boolit down and I would guess causing the boolit to be sized down too far causing some of the leading. I am considering going to a Redding taper crimp die to see if that helps with not shaving the boolit, thinking the taper crimp will maybe hold the boolit well enough without having the sharp edge of the roll crimp sizing down the boolit. Again, am I on the right track or there something else I should be trying ? Hope all this makes sense.

[snuffy]

PT, here's my cast boolit load for 357 sig.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P3280147.JPG

That's the lee TL356-124-TC. It has enough shoulder to allow the neck to be crimped into it. I use a lee factory crimp die, which is actually a collet die like the bottleneck rifle die. It's neither a roll crimp nor a taper crimp.

I load it as-cast with LLA, the boolits drop at .3565 I've never slugged the bore of the KKM aftermarket barrel for my glock M-22. These shoot okay as is, after I retire, I'll get serious about a load work-up![smilie=l:

I use Alliant power pistol, don't remember off hand how much, too lazy to go look!:?: (Coffee hasn't hit bottom yet!)

[pt4u2nv]

I actually have that mould and tried making dry runs with seating the boolit and could not get it to hold the boolit. I did not crimp into the goove though. Maybe I will try that . What is you COL on that boolit and what kind of accuracy are you getting? Any leading issues?

[Echo]

Been working for a couple of weeks to try to get a cast boolit to work in the 357 SIG. Tried several molds and finally got a boolit that seems to be working fairly well. It is the Lee 356-125-2R. The boolit has enough flat on the side to allow the small area on the bottleneck to grip the boolit the entire length of the neck . I have been working up a load and correct sizing to prevent leading and am getting there slowly. 2 problems right now I could use some expert advise on.

Sizing....bore groove dia. mics at .3551......356 sizer comes in at .3555....357 sizer comes in at .3563. Still getting a little leading at .3563 with a 5:2 mix of WW/ Lead with a little tin added for fillout BHN of about 14.3, 8.0 grs of AA#5. Accuracy seems best at that load.COL I am setting at 1.650 which is really long but chambers well and has no feeding problems. I am thinking to help with the leading I should try sizing with a .358 sizer to get a little larger boolit. Does this seem like the correct thing to do at this point? ? It should be noted I am getting some keyholing with higher loads of AA#5.

Try some @ .358 - if they chamber reliably, go for it. My practice is to load the fattest boolit that will chamber.

2nd problem is I am not real happy with the roll crimp I have had to use to hold the boolit and not get setback from the recoil. It is a pretty good crimp and when I pulled a booilt from an unfired case it is definetly sizing the boolit down and I would guess causing the boolit to be sized down too far causing some of the leading. I am considering going to a Redding taper crimp die to see if that helps with not shaving the boolit, thinking the taper crimp will maybe hold the boolit well enough without having the sharp edge of the roll crimp sizing down the boolit. Again, am I on the right track or there something else I should be trying ? Hope all this makes sense.

Yeah - the .357 Sig doesn't have much of a neck to hold the boolit. Maybe the fatter .358 might generate enough tension to prevent setback, but I wouldn't bet on it. A taper crimp, or as Snuffy suggested, a Lee FC die would probably work.

12345 (must have five characters...)

[Piedmont]

pt4u2nv, I've never loaded that cartridge but have experience with the 9 and .45 (lots). I would go with the larger bullet. A roll crimp die shouldn't size your bullet down. Use hard bullets and try .358 and/or .357 with that Lee 2R bullet. Start low with your powder charges and work up.

Snuffy's bullets are seated below the neck, which I won't say won't work, but isn't ideal.

Use a hard bullet and a good lube in the groove. Water drop your bullets for hardness; your's are too soft, I think.

[fredj338]

That bullet mold is not going to work within the OAL specs needed for most 357sigs. The 124TC will work, better. I use the 122gr Saeco mold loaded to 1.135". I use Dillon dies, taper crimp. Being a high pressure round, you'll want to run ww or a bit harder for best results. The fastest powder I will use in the 357sig is Unique. Running @ 1200fps in my P239, I get little to no leading sized 0.356".

Snuffy's bullets are seated below the neck, which I won't say won't work, but isn't ideal.
All bullets loaded in the 357sig load below the short neck. Use a hard bullet and a good lube in the groove. Water drop your bullets for hardness; your's are too soft, I think. Agree, a bit too soft for best results in a 35Kpsi round unless you are loading 1000fps or so loads.

[snuffy]

Snuffy's bullets are seated below the neck, which I won't say won't work, but isn't ideal.

No, they're not. The very short driving band of the TL boolit is just barely above the end of neck. Withe the lee FCD you can crimp it right there without needing much major bullet diameter to crimp into. If I had them seated much longer, they won't chamber cleanly.

I get acceptable accuracy from those, about what I get from J-word bullets. Or IOW as good as my tired eyes can see/shoot!:coffeecom[smilie=1: They're cast from WW equivalent alloy, about 12 BHN. Not sure of the velocity, um let me look to see if I ever chronoed them----, nope.:(

[fredj338]

No, they're not. The very short driving band of the TL boolit is just barely above the end of neck. Withe the lee FCD you can crimp it right there without needing much major bullet diameter to crimp into. If I had them seated much longer, they won't chamber cleanly.

I get acceptable accuracy from those, about what I get from J-word bullets. Or IOW as good as my tired eyes can see/shoot!:coffeecom[smilie=1: They're cast from WW equivalent alloy, about 12 BHN. Not sure of the velocity, um let me look to see if I ever chronoed them----, nope.:(
I think he means below the neck, into the powder space. It's obvious from your pic that the drivng band is in the neck & there is a slight shoulder above the neck, as it should be.

[The10mmKid]

snip


Snuffy's bullets are seated below the neck, which I won't say won't work, but isn't ideal.

snip

Piedmont, the only SIG bullet that WONT sit below the neck is a 90gr. I have some Nosler's that work well in the SIG case. The SIG has an aggravatingly small neck. :bigsmyl2:

'da Kid

[Elkins45]

At the risk of sounding dumb, what are the chances of choosing a charge of slower burning powder that fills the case almost to the base of the neck? That way the boolit would actually be supported by the powder charges and be unable to go any deeper into the case.

I agree that the 357 sig is a frustrating round to handload.

[The10mmKid]

Not dumb at all, Elkins45

Full cases of powder has been a backup solution when having difficulties with maintaining neck tension.

However, our skill level with neck tension has improved and the 'full case' method is waning.

What is dumb is all this rain along the Ohio River valley . . . . . geeze, enough already.

'da Kid

[fredj338]

At the risk of sounding dumb, what are the chances of choosing a charge of slower burning powder that fills the case almost to the base of the neck? That way the boolit would actually be supported by the powder charges and be unable to go any deeper into the case.

I agree that the 357 sig is a frustrating round to handload.
Yes, many tout AA#9 as "the powder" for the 357sig because it does give a slightly compressed load. Nothing wrong w/ that but w/ proper die setup & bullet choice, it's not relly needed.

[StarMetal]

I don't know if you boys have reloading experience for the 30 Luger, 30 Mauser, and 7.62x25 Tokarev, but if you didn't you wouldn't think the 357 Sig any big deal to reload for. I have all those and plus 25 years ago I made up a 38/45 barrel for my 1911 Colt. Pretty much the same idea.

[Elkins45]

I don't know if you boys have reloading experience for the 30 Luger, 30 Mauser, and 7.62x25 Tokarev, but if you didn't you wouldn't think the 357 Sig any big deal to reload for. I have all those and plus 25 years ago I made up a 38/45 barrel for my 1911 Colt. Pretty much the same idea.

Before the popularity of the fully ramped barrel, when 38 super was THE ISPC round, I gave some thought to building up a 38/45 and making the brass from surplus 7.62 brass that was cut down. I thought that might help with the unsupported chamber. My intention was to specify a thicker neck so I wouldn't have to ream the case mouths.

Never got around to it, which was probably for the best. Can you imagine how much trouble it would have been to make all that brass?

[whopist]

I started loading 357 Sig with the Lee 120g TC bullet, then, switched to the shorter nose of the SAECO 122g TC.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii165/whopist/120TCbullets.jpg

Assembled, my 357 Sig ammo looks like this.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii165/whopist/357Sigmag.jpg

The 122g TC, (and 120g TC), can be used in a magnitude of different cartridges. It feeds well in KelTec 3ATs, 1911s, P239s.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii165/whopist/120-122gLTCbullets.jpg

[pt4u2nv]

whopist,
what are you sizing to and what crimp are you using ? Doesn't look like a rolled crimp from what I can see.

[whopist]

pt4u2nv,
I size my P239 357 Sig bullets to .356”. But my advice is to all is, size to the gun. If a bullet greater than .356” chambers and drops out freely, use it.

My RCBS seating die taper crimps if adjusted to do so. My Redding seating die roll crimps if adjusted to do so.

I used to light roll crimp but now use my RCBS to seat and just remove my expanded flare. Sometimes, when necessary, I lightly crimp with a Lee Collet Crimp Die.

Good Luck!

[ArrowJ]

whopist, what is your powder/charge when using that boolit?

[fredj338]

pt4u2nv,
I size my P239 357 Sig bullets to .356”. But my advice is to all is, size to the gun. If a bullet greater than .356” chambers and drops out freely, use it.

My RCBS seating die taper crimps if adjusted to do so. My Redding seating die roll crimps if adjusted to do so.

I used to light roll crimp but now use my RCBS to seat and just remove my expanded flare. Sometimes, when necessary, I lightly crimp with a Lee Collet Crimp Die.

Good Luck!

Exactly how mine look, but I taper crimp on the Dillon dies, works 100%. My other 357sig bullet; RCBS 147gr HP by Erik.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/9mm-136-1200.jpg

[N1YDP]

PT, here's my cast boolit load for 357 sig.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P3280147.JPG

That's the lee TL356-124-TC. It has enough shoulder to allow the neck to be crimped into it. I use a lee factory crimp die, which is actually a collet die like the bottleneck rifle die. It's neither a roll crimp nor a taper crimp.

I load it as-cast with LLA, the boolits drop at .3565 I've never slugged the bore of the KKM aftermarket barrel for my glock M-22. These shoot okay as is, after I retire, I'll get serious about a load work-up![smilie=l:

I use Alliant power pistol, don't remember off hand how much, too lazy to go look!:?: (Coffee hasn't hit bottom yet!)
are you using 357 sig brass or 40 s&w

[xringshutr]

I've posted on this topic a few times here. 358-125RF (new version), sized .358, loaded with 9.2 gr of AA #7 works great in both of my 357 Sigs. Bullet is seated with a fingernail width of the bearing surface exposed above the case mouth. One is a G31 (Glock) and the other is a Sig. The load shoots great and feeds great; no leading at all. Try it out, I think you will be pleased.