My 1891 Engineer's carbine

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/9C6BFD0E97DDEBF/standard.jpg

.............This is the little scudder. It differs from the cavalry version only that unlike the cavalry carbine it will accept a bayonet. I bought this many moons ago from Empire arms.

http://www.fototime.com/3B0B196FDF710A5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/AA1431D769DC812/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/0CA90A1FD0D08FB/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/374EDA25C5EEB98/standard.jpg

It's 100% matching and has an intact crest. However it has lost almost all of it's bluing, and the stock has it's share of dings and bangs. In addition to that the stock has had 3 arsenal repairs. This one to the toe of the stock is tha largest. From what I recall, this imported batch all had some kind of arsenal repairs made to the stocks. I guess they spent a lot of time using the butts to drive grade stakes or something. This added repair piece has 2 wooden dowels from the bottom up into the stock. The other 2 repairs (done a bit nicer) is a dovetailed piece added behind the tang of the action in the wrist. The other is in the heel in front of the buttplate (more banging on something?).

http://www.fototime.com/50E1C1C8E3995D3/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/2A4E8C64045ADB1/standard.jpg

The side mounted sling swivel/staple. In the right photo you can just make out the stock repair to the heel just ahead of the buttplate as a lighter bit of wood.

http://www.fototime.com/CF5FB8FB935293D/standard.jpg

As you can see in this, and the above photo the rear bayonet mount doubles as the band for the sling swivel. This little guy has for sure been around the block a time or two. I wish I knew their history as I'm sure it'd be interesting. While the outside appears to have been treated somewhat roughly, the bore is in quite good shape, although the lands are noticeably worn.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/A390C4B683EB30C/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1DCC8D5751C9734/standard.jpg

The rear sight, and in the right photo a steel plate inlet into the underside of the wrist. I have no idea what purpose it serves?

http://www.fototime.com/5561AB04090CE6E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9BCF2D538C49552/standard.jpg

An interesting bit of kit I was also able to buy was this canvas and leather scabard. I don't know if it was German made for the carbine or made in Argentina. Nor do I know when it was made, other then Dennis at Empire Arms said they were authentic Argentine military issue.

http://www.fototime.com/155D91BC6DBE160/standard.jpg

The rear sling staple matches the leatherbound hole. As you can see the front sling swivel in the previous photo, the scabbard was designed so the carbine's sling would serve double duty to carry the carbine while it was tucked away in it's scabbard. The drawstrings at the butt end are snugged up and then tied to secure the end of the scabbard.

While the lands are somewhat rounded and the throat and leade are of prodigeous length, the little dude shoots quite well. The barrel slugs .303"x .314". The 200gr Nu-Judge and the 190gr 311407 (modified) Lee group buy boolits shoot very well in it. While I wouldn't necessarily enter it in a CBA postal, I'd have no qualms taking it hunting as 1 to 1-1/2" five shot groups at 50 yards are easy to obtain. Trust me that a 200gr cast slug at 1800+ fps will make the forend leap up off the bags so I can only imagine what a 174gr jacketed slug at 2300 fps would do, as I don't plan on trying.

................Buckshot

[excess650]

The 1891s that I have seen all exhibited fine machining. I had the 'tween" length once upon a time, but really wanted the Engineer's Carbine like you have. Thanks for the photos.

BTW, a couple of shots of my '71 sporter on the singleshot board.

[dragonrider]

Wow, I think I could get to like one of those real quick.

[45 2.1]

The cavalry version has no provision for a front sling loop as they don't have the ugly bands up front. They are quite slick and neat and pretty accurate for a short rifle. Just right to carry. Aquire one while you can.

[StarMetal]

The cavalry version has no provision for a front sling loop as they don't have the ugly bands up front. They are quite slick and neat and pretty accurate for a short rifle. Just right to carry. Aquire one while you can.

Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0265_o.jpg
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0268_o.jpg

[45 2.1]

Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0265_o.jpg
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0268_o.jpg

I've seen about three dozen of these over the last 25 years along with the ones i've owned. None of them had the front sling loop as shown in the picture. The front band clamp screw was on the side also.

[StarMetal]

I've seen about three dozen of these over the last 25 years along with the ones i've owned. None of them had the front sling loop as shown in the picture. The front band clamp screw was on the side also.

I had one also and it was as you described. The Engineer Carbine I currently have is like Buckshot's. What's with the one pictured here? It's also strange that they would put provisions on the buttstock for a sling (they even have a blank with screw on the wrist for mounting a swivel there) but yet no sling attachment on the barrel.

[45 2.1]

It's also strange that they would put provisions on the buttstock for a sling (they even have a blank with screw on the wrist for mounting a swivel there) but yet no sling attachment on the barrel.

Cavalry = horse mounted. Big loop over the shoulder with one attachment to gun near back end was common.

[9.3X62AL]

The mainstay military rifle cartridges of the 1890-1900 period are all very capable game calibers. 7.65 Arg, 303 British, 7.62 x 54R, 30-40 Krag--ballistics aren't spectacular by today's standards in the era of WSSMs, RAUMs, SAUMs, and BAUMs--they just go about their business downrange in predictable and user-friendly fashion, tipping over deer and larger game whenever given the oppurtunity and shooting quite well on paper during the off-season.

Call me an antiquated throwback, but after the onset of the 250 Savage, 30-06, and 375 H&H, much that followed was little more than busywork and plagiarism--although the 223 is pretty efficient and affordable to run.

THAT should get the party started.......

[BruceB]

Dunno about the party, but I'll at least buy a round!

One of my long-term fascinations has been just how "right" those designers of early smokeless cartridges "got it".

As Al says, after the rounds he mentioned there's been very little "better" amongst the newer cartridges.

Barring the advent of the .222 and its numerous kin since the late '40s, there's been precious little that was more than merely incremental change. Better sights, better barrel technology, better powders, better bullets....yes, to all of those things. However, if the improvements are utilized in the cartridges of, say, 1890 to 1925, then those original cartridges STILL compete very well with the latter-day examples.

It's ALMOST embarrassing to cast a glim along my rifle racks. Hmmm...three .303s, a .30-40, an early Mannlicher-Schoenauer 24"-takedown in 6.5x54, a pair of .32 Specials, a .404 and a .416 Rigby (both circa 1910), a low-number 1903, a .270, a .45-70...hell, just about the ONLY big-game cartridge I shoot that's under fifty years old is the .338, and even it just squeaks under the 50-years mark!

We once had a very pretty Spanish M93 7x57 carbine; I don't recall what happened to it but sure wish I had it back again. My wife once bounced a 175 softpoint off the roof of our '65 Fairlane with it...the line-of-sight cleared the top, but the line-of-bore....well, you can guess. Nice groove.

Shooters are often reckoned to be among the most hide-bound and tradition-oriented people around. Maybe it's just that our stuff WORKS, and there's no good reason to change.

[Uncle R.]

Dunno about the party, but I'll at least buy a round!

One of my long-term fascinations has been just how "right" those designers of early smokeless cartridges "got it".

As Al says, after the rounds he mentioned there's been very little "better" amongst the newer cartridges.


I agree. As I gradually turn into an old curmudgeon I'm ever less impressed with whatever the latest gun rag articles are touting. A man could get along quite nicely with cartridges designed before WW1 especially if they're loaded with modern hunting bullets. The latest "supergoboomer" designs trade terrible efficiency, huge muzzle flash and blast, high recoil and outrageously expensive factory ammo and brass for very minor improvements in ballistics.
<
No thanks.
<
I didn't always agree with the late Colonel Cooper but he was right about hunting cartridges. If you can't do it (in North America at least) with a good bolt-action .30-06 it probably can't be done. I'll add the 7x57 and 8x57 to that group as well - I like all of them. They're efficient and capable all out of proportion to their cartridge size, blast and recoil.
<
Uncle R.

[Beekeeper]

You always do this to me Buckshot.
Ever time I think I have my milsurpites in check you show off one or more of your beauties and there I go again, getting the itch for more.
SHMBO'd is looking over my shoulder and saying "No More you promised"

I'll sneak a look and try to find one when she isn't here!!

Jim

[abunaitoo]

I have both the calvery and engineer rifles.
Not bad condition on the outside.
All matching numbers.
Bore worn, but shoots cast OK.
Bad news is some yahooo had the bright idea to run a .308 reamer in it to shoot 308 ammo.
Bullet for a 7.65 is .311, bullet for a .308 is .308????
Would work, but not to good.
Stupid is as stupid does.
I attached a picture of the shell that came out of the calvery.
The engineer is about the same.
Good thing is I didn't pay much for the two of them.

[dualsport]

Nice! Thanks for the pictures Buckshot. I'm jealous. I have a '91 that's a tack driver with Sierra MKs. Unfrotunately somebody cut on it a little and dt'd it. I have a question, is it normal for the little handguard to be wired on? Mine is, the wire is in that little groove.

[Buckshot]

Nice! Thanks for the pictures Buckshot. I'm jealous. I have a '91 that's a tack driver with Sierra MKs. Unfrotunately somebody cut on it a little and dt'd it. I have a question, is it normal for the little handguard to be wired on? Mine is, the wire is in that little groove.

.............Yes it is.

http://www.fototime.com/E024462DE300D0F/standard.jpg

As it is also on the M1909 Cavalry..............

http://www.fototime.com/D1C0D4FE8A65D60/standard.jpg

And the M1891 infantry model.

................abunaitoo, I just checked Springfield Sporters as they used to list brand new M91 Carbine barrels (in the white) before they went out of business several years ago, and then restarted. However since their re-start I do know that they have a lot of stuff not listed that you have to call for. I snagged one of the carbine barrels back then and I think it was like $40? You might give them a call if you'd thought you'd like to put the carbine back as it was.

Beekeeper,
You always do this to me Buckshot.
Ever time I think I have my milsurpites in check you show off one or more of your beauties and there I go again, getting the itch for more.
SHMBO'd is looking over my shoulder and saying "No More you promised"

..............I try to be as helpful as possible to all mankind :-)

...............Buckshot

[Dutchman]

Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0265_o.jpg
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0268_o.jpg

hola Jose, que passo?

Take a close look here and compare to yers. What is the method of sling attachment on this genuine 1892 Ludwig Loewe carbine that's never been rebuilt or rehabbed?

http://images19.fotki.com/v353/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF2990cb-vi.jpg

What's different here?

http://images54.fotki.com/v451/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF2998cb-vi.jpg

This is a 1891 rifle. What do you see?

http://images12.fotki.com/v252/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF3007cb-vi.jpg

I tell you a big secret, mon. Your carbine is half-breed. It has a rifle stock.

I also have one of the canvas/leather carbine sleeves. I'll have to check the book to see if it was Argentine or German made. If you post carbine serial numbers here I can look up when they were shipped to Argentina. I have the Collin Webster book.

This carbine *was* mine. I sold it a year ago to finance the purchase of the milling machine. I still have the rifle that was also made in 1892.

Joe.. I think your magazine/triggerguard assembly may also be from an early rifle as it lacks the magazine lock. I'll have to refer to the Webster book later this evening.


Dutch

[excess650]

I would REALLY like to have one of those carbines in excellent condition.[smilie=b::groner:

In that I bought a RD and couple of NOE molds this week, I chose NOT to go to a gunshow where I might be tempted. I seriously doubt there would have been a '91 carbine as I've NEVER seen one at a gunshow.

[abunaitoo]

Thanks Buckshot, I'll check them out.

[dualsport]

Dutch, is that offer only good on carbines? I have what I think is an infantry rifle with the barrel cut back to the nose cap, losing the front sight. The rear sight was removed. The short handguard is similar to the one in the picture of the 1892 carbine but mounted back against the first barrel step where the rear sight use to be. The serial # is A7057, it's a Lowe, and all parts are matching. The stock is numbered identically to the rest. It does have front and rear sling swivels

[NickSS]

I had a 1909 carbine but never had an 1891 model one. I did like the 7.5 mauser cartrdge. One thing I have to agree with is that you can hunt all over the US and most of the rest of the world with a 30-06 or any of the 100 year old rifle cartridges. I went through a time some years ago which I refer to as my Magnum Mania period. I bought all of the current crop of magnum rifles that were being praised the the various gun rags as being so much better than the old standby cartridges. So I bought rifles in 6.5 Reming to n Mag, 264 Win Magm 7 mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 308 Norma Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H Mag, 378 Whetherby Mag. and 458 Win Mag. After shooting them all and killing a few whitetails, a couple of caribou, and a Moose with them (deer with the 7mm Rem mag and 300 Win Mag the others with the 338 Mag) I came to the conclusion that they damaged a lot of meat, Killed no faster than a 30-06 (by empirical testing (shooting critters)) and cost me 25% more to load. I came to the conclusion that the only use I have for a magnum rifle is for dangerous game and for them I would want at least a 375 H&H Mag and all the lesser mags were essentially useless. I have not owned a Magnum rifle since then.

[45 2.1]

I would REALLY like to have one of those carbines in excellent condition.[smilie=b::groner: It just costs money.............

I seriously doubt there would have been a '91 carbine as I've NEVER seen one at a gunshow. I was at the local gun show yesterday........... A nice '91 carbine was there for.... $450.

[StarMetal]

hola Jose, que passo?

Take a close look here and compare to yers. What is the method of sling attachment on this genuine 1892 Ludwig Loewe carbine that's never been rebuilt or rehabbed?

http://images19.fotki.com/v353/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF2990cb-vi.jpg

What's different here?

http://images54.fotki.com/v451/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF2998cb-vi.jpg

This is a 1891 rifle. What do you see?

http://images12.fotki.com/v252/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF3007cb-vi.jpg

I tell you a big secret, mon. Your carbine is half-breed. It has a rifle stock.

I also have one of the canvas/leather carbine sleeves. I'll have to check the book to see if it was Argentine or German made. If you post carbine serial numbers here I can look up when they were shipped to Argentina. I have the Collin Webster book.

This carbine *was* mine. I sold it a year ago to finance the purchase of the milling machine. I still have the rifle that was also made in 1892.

Joe.. I think your magazine/triggerguard assembly may also be from an early rifle as it lacks the magazine lock. I'll have to refer to the Webster book later this evening.


Dutch

Hang on my good Mauser friend. I pulled that picture off the web. That's not my rifle. My rifle is the Engineers model and it does have the magazine lock on it. It's all matching, every bit of it and in mint condition.

That Carbine in the picture more then likely is what you said, put together. I had a Cavalry carbine in the early 70's and it didn't have any sling provisions. It was all matching except for the magazine.

Oh, almost forgot to answer what I saw different on that carbine I pictured. There's a step on the barrel that shouldn't be there and barrel muzzle is sticking out too far from the nose cap, in addition to what you pointed out. The serial number of my Engineer carbine is C 08xx so what year was it shipped?

[Dutchman]

Buckshot's carbine is rightfully known as the m/1891/31 carbine. His s/n B6549 was manufactured in 1899. It was part of a block that ran from B5000-C5999 for a total of 11,000 carbines mfg by DWM. DWM production began in 1899. Ludwig Loewe made carbines only in 1893 and 1895 for a total of 15,000 carbines. Total carbine production was 33,500 from 1892 to 1901 but the actual number produced as 30,000 carbines (pg.109 Webster).

Looks like Buckshot's carbine shipped from Germany on Sept.20, 1899 on the ship "Pampa". It was among the 2nd contract of 16,000 carbines.

dualsport's m/1891 rifle s/n A7057 was made by Ludwig Loewe in 1892. Numbers ran A0000-C4999 for a total of 25,000 rifles in 1892. (Mine is a C-prefix from the same batch). Total rifle production ran from 1892 to 1901 for a total of 230,400 rifles but the actual number is accepted as 180,000 rifles.

dualsport's is easy as it was in the first 10,000 made (A0000-A9999). His was part of the 1st contract which was split into 3 parts. His shipped in the 1st part for 25,000 rifles. There were 7 shipments for that 1st part of the 1st contract. His was part of 1,875 rifles shipped on Sept.21, 1892 on the ship "Curtiyba".

Joe's m/1891/31 engineer's carbine s/n C08xx was from the same batch as Buckshot's, 1899.

Joe's carbine shipped same date and ship as Buckshot's.

My former carbine was A9715 and was a Ludwig Loewe mfg in 1895 as part of the last 5,000 of the 1st contract for 15,000 carbines. I bought it from the importer JL Denter in Connecticut (JLD).

My current and very nice m/1891 rifle is C0231 and was mfg in 1892.

"Argentine Mauser rifles 1871-1959" by Collin Webster. It's a great book if you're into Argentine military rifles. It also covers all the 1909 variants in detail.

Dutch

[StarMetal]

Buckshot's carbine is rightfully known as the m/1891/31 carbine. His s/n B6549 was manufactured in 1899. It was part of a block that ran from B5000-C5999 for a total of 11,000 carbines mfg by DWM. DWM production began in 1899. Ludwig Loewe made carbines only in 1893 and 1895 for a total of 15,000 carbines. Total carbine production was 33,500 from 1892 to 1901 but the actual number produced as 30,000 carbines (pg.109 Webster).

Looks like Buckshot's carbine shipped from Germany on Sept.20, 1899 on the ship "Pampa". It was among the 2nd contract of 16,000 carbines.

dualsport's m/1891 rifle s/n A7057 was made by Ludwig Loewe in 1892. Numbers ran A0000-C4999 for a total of 25,000 rifles in 1892. (Mine is a C-prefix from the same batch). Total rifle production ran from 1892 to 1901 for a total of 230,400 rifles but the actual number is accepted as 180,000 rifles.

dualsport's is easy as it was in the first 10,000 made (A0000-A9999). His was part of the 1st contract which was split into 3 parts. His shipped in the 1st part for 25,000 rifles. There were 7 shipments for that 1st part of the 1st contract. His was part of 1,875 rifles shipped on Sept.21, 1892 on the ship "Curtiyba".

Joe's m/1891/31 engineer's carbine s/n C08xx was from the same batch as Buckshot's, 1899.

Joe's carbine shipped same date and ship as Buckshot's.

My former carbine was A9715 and was a Ludwig Loewe mfg in 1895 as part of the last 5,000 of the 1st contract for 15,000 carbines. I bought it from the importer JL Denter in Connecticut (JLD).

My current and very nice m/1891 rifle is C0231 and was mfg in 1892.

"Argentine Mauser rifles 1871-1959" by Collin Webster. It's a great book if you're into Argentine military rifles. It also covers all the 1909 variants in detail.

Dutch

Confusing. Why is my serial # very close to yours but made and shipped in a different date and mine is marked Ludwig Lowe not DMW?

[Dutchman]

Confusing. Why is my serial # very close to yours but made and shipped in a different date and mine is marked Ludwig Lowe not DMW?

Yes, it is confusing.

Ludwig Loewe manufactured only 15,000 carbines before they turned into DWM. There were 10,000 mfg in 1893 that covered s/n A0000-A4999 and B0000-B4999. And 5,000 in 1895 s/n A5000-A9999. (November 1896 is generally the accepted date for the change from Ludwig Loewe to DWM per Ludwig Olsen's book).

The A5000-A9999 block in 1895 were a continuation of the 1893 batch. In other words, half of the 9,999 in the A-prefix were made in 1893 and the other half in 1899. And half the 9,999 of the B000-B9999 were made in 1893 and the other 5,000 made in 1899 . The next carbines made were in 1899 starting with B5000 where they left off in 1893. There's also a notation about DWM building carbines on receivers manufactured by Ludwig Loewe.

DWM started building carbines again in 1899 with 11,000 carbines in one batch s/n B5000-C5999. A second batch of 3,590 carbines in 1900 s/n D3000-E5539. A third batch in 1901 of 18,500 carbines s/n E5540-8039. There is a notation that Argentina released 500 carbines to Bolivia in October 1899 that were not replaced by DWM. Also in April 1901 1,500 finished carbines and 2,500 carbines in pieces were sold to Peru and replaced by DWM later that same year.

It's not such an easy explanation as 1-2-3 and A-B-C. You'd have to read this Webster book to get a decent grasp on the history of the 1891 rifle & carbine.

In a survey done via gunboards.com and I think spearheaded by either John Wall or Jack Carnahan that is noted in this Webster book it says there were no rifles with I, J, O, Q or V prefix noted in the United States survey. And carbines prefixes jumped from C to W instead of C to D. There were also 115,400 rifles sold to Spain that the exact serial number series is unknown.

Note: rifle and carbine serial number series are separate altogether. They are not intermixed.

Correction: you need to read this book more than once for all this to soak in:).

Dutch

[StarMetal]

Yes, it is confusing.

Ludwig Loewe manufactured only 15,000 carbines before they turned into DWM. There were 10,000 mfg in 1893 that covered s/n A0000-A4999 and B0000-B4999. And 5,000 in 1895 s/n A5000-A9999. (November 1896 is generally the accepted date for the change from Ludwig Loewe to DWM per Ludwig Olsen's book).

The A5000-A9999 block in 1895 were a continuation of the 1893 batch. In other words, half of the 9,999 in the A-prefix were made in 1893 and the other half in 1899. And half the 9,999 of the B000-B9999 were made in 1893 and the other 5,000 made in 1899 . The next carbines made were in 1899 starting with B5000 where they left off in 1893. There's also a notation about DWM building carbines on receivers manufactured by Ludwig Loewe.

DWM started building carbines again in 1899 with 11,000 carbines in one batch s/n B5000-C5999. A second batch of 3,590 carbines in 1900 s/n D3000-E5539. A third batch in 1901 of 18,500 carbines s/n E5540-8039. There is a notation that Argentina released 500 carbines to Bolivia in October 1899 that were not replaced by DWM. Also in April 1901 1,500 finished carbines and 2,500 carbines in pieces were sold to Peru and replaced by DWM later that same year.

It's not such an easy explanation as 1-2-3 and A-B-C. You'd have to read this Webster book to get a decent grasp on the history of the 1891 rifle & carbine.

In a survey done via gunboards.com and I think spearheaded by either John Wall or Jack Carnahan that is noted in this Webster book it says there were no rifles with I, J, O, Q or V prefix noted in the United States survey. And carbines prefixes jumped from C to W instead of C to D. There were also 115,400 rifles sold to Spain that the exact serial number series is unknown.

Note: rifle and carbine serial number series are separate altogether. They are not intermixed.

Correction: you need to read this book more than once for all this to soak in:).

Dutch

Thanks Dutch

[dualsport]

WOW! That's what I call doing your homework. Thankyou very much for the information Dutch. Knowing that makes me feel a little closer to my baby. It's a shame it was mutated, but I got it for about nothing and it still looks like it should from a distance. At least it wasn't really sporterised. She's wearing a Bushnell 10X right now, helped me double my best score in military rifle silhouette. There's another type of match at the club I just joined, Long Range Tactical. They shoot B27 human silhouette type paper targets from 100-1,000 yds., usually prone. A bunch of police snipers I think, with a lot of expensive stuff. It would be fun to try that with my Argie and Sierra MKs. Had this gun 20+ years, often thought why have any others, it will do anything a new gun will, or better.

[Buckshot]

............. Dutch thank you very much for taking what must have been considerable time to post that information. Too bad the book doesn't say why the Argentine engineers treated their poor little carbines like a rented mule :-)

..............Buckshot

[leadman]

I have had an 1891 rifle serial N3093 at least 28 years. It was sporterized when I got it, but I d&t for a scope. Had a new old stock barrel I bought from Sarco about 15 years ago installed and the gun reblued. I will shoot less than 2" at 200 yards when I am having a good day.
It also ashoots the Rem. 150gr jacketed .308" bullet pretty well, about 3 to 4" at 100 yards.

I also have an all original 1891 rifle serial T1351 with chrome furniture. bought a scope mount that replaces the rear sight from Duthman but have to install it yet. Bore is not great but it shoots o.k. Still has the crest too.

[Ed Barrett]

Yes, it is confusing.

Ludwig Loewe manufactured only 15,000 carbines before they turned into DWM. There were 10,000 mfg in 1893 that covered s/n A0000-A4999 and B0000-B4999. And 5,000 in 1895 s/n A5000-A9999. (November 1896 is generally the accepted date for the change from Ludwig Loewe to DWM per Ludwig Olsen's book).

The A5000-A9999 block in 1895 were a continuation of the 1893 batch. In other words, half of the 9,999 in the A-prefix were made in 1893 and the other half in 1899. And half the 9,999 of the B000-B9999 were made in 1893 and the other 5,000 made in 1899 . The next carbines made were in 1899 starting with B5000 where they left off in 1893. There's also a notation about DWM building carbines on receivers manufactured by Ludwig Loewe.
Dutch

My carbine is Serial number A5004 it's marked Loewe and is the Cavalry configuration. All the numbers match. The metal and the bore are in very good shape, the wood is pretty poor. From Dutchman's post I assume it was made in 1895. It has no import marks on it. I will try to get some pictures and post them. It is an excellent cast shooter. I have used the Lee mold as cast and sized and they both shoot as good as my eyes can see the sights.

[Ed Barrett]

Here are some pics of my 91 Cav. carbine. I don't think the photos do justice to the condition of the metal. Under the wood it looks as good as on top. According to the serial number it should be the 5th carbine of the second group since A5000 would have been the first one.

[Buckshot]

.............Nice looking carbine Ed. I enjoy shooting mine and like a M91 Carcano Moschetto TS carbine I have they make you think a belt holster for'em would almost make sense :-)

..............Buckshot

[Ed Barrett]

.............Nice looking carbine Ed. I enjoy shooting mine and like a M91 Carcano Moschetto TS carbine I have they make you think a belt holster for'em would almost make sense :-)

..............Buckshot

I know what you mean, after shooting it you do feel like you can stick it in your pocket with no problem.

[artu44]

This is a Bubba shortened rifle. You can detect the barrel step far ahead of the handguard while it should be flush, the rifle stock with wood filled slot for the original barrel band spring on the right side of the stock (carbine has the spring on th left side). Moreover barrel band has sling swivel (carbine doesn't) and rear swivel is tipically rifle (carbine has an elogated loop near trigger guard).
Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0265_o.jpg
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arg0268_o.jpg

[JRPVT]

This probably doesn't matter now, but some insight into the use of rifles by engineers "treated them like rented mules" is forthcoming. As an engineer, we were expected to do our work while dragging along a rifle. It was always an encumbrance, always hanging up on something, banging into stuff, just a general PITA. If operating equipment it might get to ride along on the floor, or jammed into a spot where it wouldn't be in the way. No, we were not easy on them, they were just another tool. A replaceable, expendable tool. It's that simple. My experience, others may vary. Dave

[marlin39a]

Yes, this thread is almost 7 yrs old. I was excited to find it, as I am the new owner of Buckshot's 1891 Engineers Carbine. I got the canvas sleeve and all his notes on reloading for it. I have never had an 1891 before, and look forward to owning more.

[flint45]

Congratulations that is a nice little carbine I have one myself they are pretty cool wish I had one of those sleeves. On a side note I use to shoot a buffalo match with Buckshot he's a great guy lots of knowledge. wish those matches were still going on a bunch of great guys and lots of fun to but that range got shut down.