help with a 297\230 cadet

[smlekid]

Hi I'm trying to get a load together for my Francotte Cadet I'm using shortened 22 hornet brass cut down to .810" and some 22RF swaged lead boolits (40gr solid) I've lubed these with LLA and am having trouble with leading my barrel slugs at .224 and the boolit is .224 I've tried fast burning powders (2gn Win 231) and slow (4gr H4227) the H4227 load seem to lead the least but left a lot of unburnt powder I am waiting on a Lyman mold 225438 but at the moment I'd like to try and get a reasonable load with the swaged boolits anybody load for this calibre?

[JeffinNZ]

The bullets sound to be too skinny. What is the throat? Have you contact Jim at CBE?

[smlekid]

Hi Jeff I haven't spoken to Jim yet but I do intend to I did see there was a group buy being orginised through CBE a few years back don't know if it ever happened I've tried to call Jim a couple of times and don't seem to have much luck trying to catch him
the Lyman mould I have some samples of so I will see how it goes from there if Jim has something close I'll get it I do like his moulds

[JeffinNZ]

I was talking to him on Skype the other evening and he told me 1) he was planning some time off and 2) would like never do a group buy again as the moulds have been ready since Dec but he has yet to see a substantial amount of money for post.

[smlekid]

Ouch that is not nice

[Multigunner]

Well we learn something new every day.
I'd seen these 297/230 rifles and morris tubes mentioned many times but till now I never knew the bullet and bore were actually .22.
I guess the .230 is the inside dia of the chamber neck, just as .38 is the nominal chamber size of the .38 S&W while bullet size is .358, and .32 is the chamber size while bullets are .314 or there abouts.

A few years back I heard of there being a very few Indian .410 conversions of the SMLE that came in with a case and a fitted .22 rimfire barrel liner and bolt with rimfire bolthead. That was intended for dual duty target and wing shooting practice I suppose, but would make a great small game gun.

I hadn't even thought about a possible centerfire .22 barrel liner. That would not require a separate bolt, and the extractor might still reach far enough inboard to extract but not eject the small cases.

[BerdanIII]

Are you shooting the .297/.230 Morris Short or the unbelievably powerful Long?:-). Seriously, there are some shooters on the British Militaria website who torture themselves by reloading that round. There is a table of load data for the Long, but I think you'll have to go hunting in the past posts for Short data.

Looking at your loads, you might be pushing a little too hard. The original Short used 3.25 (or 3.5) grains of black powder and a 37-grain heeled bullet for a rousing 800 fps MV.

[smlekid]

I was thinking the same I really need to chrony these the 3 blackpowder rounds I shot put down a very nice group COTW is were the data come from and the long I was looking at getting 1200fps as that is the speed I thought the long round was getting
oh and I'm shooting the BIG morris recoil near breaks the shoulder!!!!!!

[BerdanIII]

.297/.230 Morris Long Data

44.5-grain Lyman 224438, OAL = 1.218"
Charge (grains)-Powder-Ave. Vel. (ft/sec)-Case-Primer-Velocity Spread (ft/sec)-Group Size (inches)
1.0 - WW-231 - 875 - RP - F100 - 65 - 4+
1.7 - WW-231 - 1364 - RP - F100 - 43 -1.5
1.7 - WW-231 - 1201 - RP - F100 - 29 -1.9
2.0 - WW-231 - 1382 - RP - F100 - 67 - 4+
4.0 - GOEX 4FG - 982 - WW - F100 - 185 - 4+
4.6 - GOEX 2FG - 596 - WW - F100 -181 - 4+
2.7 - WW-296 -1076 - RP - F100 - 43 - 4+
3.0 - WW-296 -1173 - RP - F100 - 60? - 1.6
3.3 - WW-296 - 1263 -RP - F100 - 39 - 1.9
3.5 - WW-296 - 1308 - RP - F100 - 67? - 2.7
4.0 - WW-296 - 1426 - RP - F100 - 76 - 4+
1.5 - Bullseye - 1142 - WW - F100 - 101? - 3.9
2.0 - Bullseye - 1388 - WW - F100 - 61 - 3.5
3.0 - 2400 - 1272 - WW - F100 - 88 - 3.7
1.5 - Nitro100 - 1242 - RP - F205 - 102 - 4+
2.0 - Nitro100 - 1520 - RP - F205 - 121 - 4+
3.5 - H110 - 1276 - WW - F205 - 75 - 4+
4.0 - H110 - 1401 - WW - F205 - 117 - 4+
2.0 - Green Dot - 1356 - WW - F205 - 53 - 4+
2.0 - Red Dot - 1373 - WW - F205 - 49? - 4+
3.0 - Blue Dot - 1447 - WW - F205 - 65 - 4+
2.2 - Red Dot - 1387 - WW - F205 - 39 - 4+
1.8 - IMR-4756 - 1212 - WW - F205 - 109 - 3.1
2.0 - IMR-4756 - 1326 - WW - F205 - 99 - 4+
2.5 - IMR-4756 - 1502 - WW - F205 - 111 - 4+
3.0 - AA7 - 1401 - WW - F205 - 121 - 4+
3.0 - WW-540 -1575 - WW - F205 - 34 - 4+
3.0 - SR4759 - 1075 - WW F205 - 141 - 4+

45-grain Sierra #1210, 0.224 Hornet, OAL = 1.193 inches
2.3 - WW-231 - 1413 - RP - F100 - 48 - 1.2

45-grain Sierra #1310, 0.224 Spitzer, OAL = 1.280 inches
3.5? - WW-296 - 1159 - R-P - F205 - 39 - 1.4

• *Bullet breech-seated at 0.856", cork wad at case mouth???
• OAL = Overall cartridge length
• F100 = Federal 100 Small Pistol primer
• F205 = Federal 205M Small Rifle Match primer

This was transcribed from the image file on the British Militaria website. The scan was not very good quality, so I used ? where I was not sure of the actual number. Brass was cut-down .22 Hornet. I included the notes at the bottom even though I could not see which loads were asterisked in the original.

[smlekid]

thank you so much for that info I had looked on that site but not found that info I can see now I was really pushing the 22lr boolit way to hard
looks like some of the loads I tried were approaching 1500fps!!!
I loaded some at 1.5grs of win 231 they seem to shoot quite well next idea was to try trail boss 1.5grs fills the case to the bottom of the seated 22lr boolit I fired 5 into the ground as a quick test no leading very easy exrtaction I need to get hold of a chrony
I'll update the post if anyone is interested

[BerdanIII]

Definitely let us know how it goes. Trail Boss may give you lower velocities than you expect; I used it with 55-gr J-word bullets in a .22 Hornet and they were barely stabilized at 100 yards with the maximum load (powder to the base of the seated bullet). Anything less resulted in keyholes.

[smlekid]

I tried some Trail Boss in this calibre I found that 1.5grs fills the case to the base of the boolit accuracy was very good when I get a chance I'll pit some over the chrony and see what speed I am getting
based on the rilfes report I would guess the load is around a standard 22 load they don't crack like the 1.5gr of 231 loads

[JeffinNZ]

4666 loads to the pound. Hard to argue with that.

[smlekid]

yep sure is cheap to run I'll have to wait till CBE has cleared his backlog and see about getting a mould for this rifle