Marlin 1895 45/70 Government

[DHORNE]

Just brought home my new 45/70, I have been drooling over this caliber for a while. I'm looking for some reliable loading information, all input is appreciated. Thanks!

[jlchucker]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, as well as their Vol. 48 and 49 Reloading Handbook is a good place to start. Also, you may want to Google up the Accurate Arms website and see what they say for their AA5744 loads.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Search through all the threads here- there are a lot of loads across the spectrum of boolits and powders listed here and there. Lots of good reading and other ideas, too!
Unique seems to be popular, as is 2400, IMR 3031, Varget, Trail Boss, and IMR 4198. Don't forget the Holy Black in FFg either!

It will depend on your choice of boolits, too.

I didn't ever think I'd go above a 300 gr. in 45 Colt (handgun or rifle), but now that I have a 45-70, I find it's just plain ol' fun to shoot, and cast, and load, and shoot, and cast.........well you get the idea. I might even do some deer hunting this coming fall with it.

ENJOY!

[DHORNE]

I have the Lyman 48th edition and had some problems with some of their data, lost a little faith in the manual. Thank's for the suggestions, I'll keep looking thru some of the threads.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
I find I am generally loading 300 grainers for everyday fun and walking about the river bottoms when up there. I seriously dought there is any critter where i tromp (East ILL) that a 300 grainer will not completely penetrate. That is a 50/50 ww-lead mix at 1500.
Most any medium burning powder can accomplish this velocity.
IF you really want to thump any 400 grainer around 1850 fps will do the job. I am sort of partial to 3031 in this bullet weight but others will do as well.
I do not shoot much heavier in my Marlin as the system restricks long loaded bullets. Heavier are available =Ranch Dog= and they are good. I just figure if that will not get the job done I will get out a single shot and smack whatever with a 500 grainer.

[Lead Fred]

Ya I walk though the valley of death, I fear not
For I carry a 45-70 with 405gr boolits
and I am the meanest mother in the valley

[DHORNE]

Thank's for the info, a 300 grain is what I was looking at, don't think I'll need anything more. I am looking for info on powder and charge weight for accuracy and know that you guys with more experiance with this caliber, have already found thru testing and experiance. I will take personal knowledge over manuals anyday.

[jtaylor1960]

I use 50.0 grs. of H-4895 and a 420gr cast bullet.You can go more but there is no need .At 50 yds with a peep sight that will shoot 5/8". Hodgdons has load data on their website.

[bearcove]

For accuracy you might want to try a heavier boolit, ie LONGER.

[Adam10mm]

I've only used 405gr heavier for lead. Only jacketed bullet I'll shoot is the Hornady 350gr RNFP.

I run 12.5gr TrailBoss with a lead 405gr and it's a very good plinker load. I've used the same bullet with IMR4198 to duplicate BP loads as well as full power loads with great accuracy.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've only used 405gr heavier for lead. Only jacketed bullet I'll shoot is the Hornady 350gr RNFP.

I run 12.5gr Trail Boss with a lead 405gr and it's a very good plinker load. I've used the same bullet with IMR4198 to duplicate BP loads as well as full power loads with great accuracy.

What are your charge weights with 4198? I've been considering getting some and trying this one.

[Curlymaple42]

Been messing with 405gr hardcast loads for a bit and just loaded some with Re7. Now THAT is the balls!! SOmething about the burn rate it is pretty mellow to shoot. I had some other test loads using 3031, 4320, and another and they were brutal in terms of recoil. The Re7 sent those chunks of lead into 1.5" groups at 100yds using an Eotech holographic sight. I call it my Cowboy Tactical gun! I was running 300gr Hornady's at around 2100fps and they of course thumped your shoulder pretty good and rapped your knuckles. I bought some 405gr hardcast as someone suggested it and they are great for deer hunting as they drill right through and cause the perfect amount of terminal damage. So I bought some and I now LOVE them! Haven't killed anything yet as I have been carrying the .50Beowulf AR15 for a few yrs now. Dropped a couple bucks with that with minimal meat damage too.

[Adam10mm]

What are your charge weights with 4198? I've been considering getting some and trying this one.
The light load was the trapdoor load from the Hodgdon manual. I use Ruger level loads for the full power loads.

[DLCTEX]

I'm loading the 460-350 RD boolit ahead of 25-30 gr. of SR 4759 ( I like 27 gr.) easy on the shoulder and accurate.

[jh45gun]

The light load was the trapdoor load from the Hodgdon manual. I use Ruger level loads for the full power loads.


Wouldn't them Ruger loads be over kill in a Model 1895? There is a reason the Marlin and Winchester guns have their own section in the reloading guides.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If you look, there is a ton of info out there, on this site and others along with several good books devoted to this old war horse in trap door, levers and single shots and the large ring Siamese mauser...good reading..

[Adam10mm]

Wouldn't them Ruger loads be over kill in a Model 1895? There is a reason the Marlin and Winchester guns have their own section in the reloading guides.
No. The .450 Marlin is housed in the same exact action and barrel and it's pressure far exceeds the 45-70 trapdoor and is closer to midway between the Levergun and Ruger loads. The brass (Starline) and action can take it. Work up as with any other load. Usually in the Guide Gun, recoil will stop you before pressure ever does. The full charge of Levergun loads will rock you pretty good.

[DHORNE]

Thanks a lot guys a lot of good choices, think I will start with a few of theese and see what me and my rifle likes. Thanks!

[Char-Gar]

YOu will be happier with a bullet of 400 or over grain weight. RCBS designed their 405 GC with this rifle in mind and it is a crackerjack for just about any purpose.

In the Marlin, size these bullets as large as you can .460 isn't too large.

I used 25-30 grains of 4759 depending on how much oompf I want. 27 grains is about right for most uses. I find this load very accurate in my Marlin.

[jh45gun]

No. The .450 Marlin is housed in the same exact action and barrel and it's pressure far exceeds the 45-70 trapdoor and is closer to midway between the Levergun and Ruger loads. The brass (Starline) and action can take it. Work up as with any other load. Usually in the Guide Gun, recoil will stop you before pressure ever does. The full charge of Levergun loads will rock you pretty good.


I WAS NOT TALKING TRAPDOOR LOADS I distinctly said the Winchester/Marlin Loads.

[excess650]

I found that IMR 3031 heavy loads shot well when fresh, but shot poorly a year later. H322 or AA2015 would be my choices if I wanted to hurt myself with recoil. LOL

The old Speer #10 listed 56gr H322 under the 400gr in WW cases for 1886fps from a 22" Marlin barrel. I had Remington 405gr bullets and found that I couldn't get 56gr of H322 in the cases and seat the bullet to crimp. I seated the bullet to a length that would just function and called it good. A few shots of that load would literally give you a headache. I had the stock cut and a Pachmayr Decelerator fitted and it helped. After one too many rounds of this heavy stuff, the magazine tube yanked its anchor from the dovetail in the bottom of the barrel. I managed to peen the dovetail back to shape, but now refrain from those loads.

[Adam10mm]

I WAS NOT TALKING TRAPDOOR LOADS I distinctly said the Winchester/Marlin Loads.
Read my post again, Einstein.

[Curlymaple42]

In most load data books there are loads for trapdoors, for 1895 Marlins, and for Ruger single shots. My suggestion would be to use the data in the 1895Marlin section for an 1895 Marlin. Ya'll ain't gonna like the recoil at the top end of the Marlin data so why bother with the Ruger data knowing that the pressure COULD damage your gun or person? Those 300gr Hornady's going 2100fps rap your shoulder and knuckles pretty good (I need a big loop lever soon) and I see no reason to up the load anymore.

[jh45gun]

Read my post again, Einstein.

I read your post Freaky, there is a reason that the load books have them lever guns a separate listing. While the 450 maybe between the Marlin and Ruger listings you mention Ruger and some one may use the high end of the Ruger listings which may be too high for the lever gun.

[Adam10mm]

I've had the 45/70 Marlin 1895 pressure tested to well over 50,000 psi by a ballistics lab and the brass fell out of the chamber like normal.

[jh45gun]

From what I have read on other forums that does not mean its still safe.

Recently we locked a thread with max loads in it. One of the reasons and a good one is here, taking into consideration the differences between Rem and Win brass is 4.1 gns if a max load is made for Win and used it may be safe in Win brass but would be a 4.1 gn overload in Rem brass.

When posting loads give their source, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon, Sierra ect or some other source but give it, and components, bullets by brand and weight, cases by brand, powder with full designation, ie H4198 and IMR4198 are sometimes not equal.


As measured by Brian Pierce!!!

1-.450 Marlin Brass/73.5 grains of water(2.7 grains less than Remington 45-70 Brass!!!)
2-.45-70 Remington Brass/76.2 grains of water(1.3 grains less than Starline Brass)
3-.45-70 Starline Brass/77.5 grains of water(2.8 grains less than Winchester Brass)
4-.45-70 Winchester Brass/80.3 grains of water.(4.1 grains "More" than Remington Brass.)

[hcpookie]

Hornady publishes some pretty good loads in their manual, as does Speer. I was also going to say Lyman but you said you didn't trust their info. I haven't looked at their 49th to see if it is any different than the 48th data. Also look on the data.hodgdon.com online load data. I figure if you can get a good cross-reference from a few sources you'll have a really good starting point.

The gun can handle some really powerful loads! I was reading about a brand of ammo (Buffalo Bullets?) that load them up hot enough for African hunts. I need to look through my magazine stack to see what brand that was now... but it was factory loaded "hot" ammo.

[jh45gun]

One thing I have found out with the 45/70 since I started shooting it and that's been a while now You do not have to hot rod it to get really good penetration. Even the trapdoor loads will give you that.

[shdwlkr]

I have one of light 45-70 winchesters and see no reason to go past 35000 in pressure as a load at the level stomps you, well at least me pretty good and doesn't do much for penetration or accuracy either as you are expecting to get stomped.
this caliber isn't the best for mountain to mountain shooting like the magnum gun writers like to talk about and I wonder if they really do. I have never seen a reason to shoot beyond 250-275 yards at game and the 45-70 will sure do that if you do your part right.
I like the 340, 425 and a group buy I have going right now for the 330 hp which should be just plain fun to shoot. My next down in size rifle shoots 268, and 249 grain and is also fun to shoot.
At my age it is more fun to shoot longer than to get every drop of speed I can out of a bullet and I shoot better too. Most of my loads now are in the middle or 3/4 of max for any of cartridges and I really don't see much difference at the target end and I save a little on powder use not a bad thing anymore.

[Adam10mm]

The gun can handle some really powerful loads! I was reading about a brand of ammo (Buffalo Bullets?) that load them up hot enough for African hunts. I need to look through my magazine stack to see what brand that was now... but it was factory loaded "hot" ammo.
Buffalo Bore and Garrett Cartridges both offer high velocity 45/70. That is a topic for another thread.[smilie=l:

[jh45gun]

Buffalo Bore and Garrett Cartridges both offer high velocity 45/70. That is a topic for another thread.[smilie=l:


Sure they are smart providing a market as there is always the crowd that think more powerful is better which is why they have a bunch of magnums in their gun safes. Or they have standard guns and try to duplicate the mag loads. Only Magnum I have ever owned and still do is a 22 Mag. everything else is standard cartridges and I do not feel under gunned. I figure my hand loads in 45/70 shooting a moderate load from the Marlin/Winchester part of the loading books, using a 405 grain cast bullet and 24 grains of 2400 powder will kill anything walking and certainly anything I will ever kill. Using a milder load than that I shot through a large doe completely length wise taking out 5 to 6 inches of leg bone in the back left hindquarter on the way out and still kept on going.

[StrawHat]

Just brought home my new 45/70, I have been drooling over this caliber for a while. I'm looking for some reliable loading information, all input is appreciated. Thanks!

Not sure which variation of the 1895 you brought home but congratulations anyway.

If you can get a copy of the June-July issue of HANDLOADER, there is a Pet Loads article by Ken Waters specifically about the Marlin 1895 in 45-70. For deer and such he recommends 300 grain bullets. For larger game, 350 grains. In this article he does NOT load boolits but in other articles he does. He also recommends avoiding bullets much over 450 grains as they are too long and must be seated into the case to cycle through the action.

For a hunting boolit, I like the Lyman 457122 Gould HP, it works well from my rifles, none of which are lever type.

[hcpookie]

Buffalo Bore and Garrett Cartridges both offer high velocity 45/70. That is a topic for another thread.

That's it! Thanks for jogging my memory :) The article is ".45-70, America's Big Bore" in the Guns Magazine 2009 Special Edition. This is the thick one with the 2009 Buyers Guide.

The way I look at heavy loads is that if you want to drive a ferrari (or jeep!) around town and to-and-from work then by all means do so. Sure it won't shine like it does "on the track" or "on the trail" but at least you have the option available :) But you are correct that is a "you say potatoe" discussion for another thread [smilie=l:

[Adam10mm]

From what I have read on other forums that does not mean its still safe.
From what the ballistic lab technicians told me, it is safe.


Recently we locked a thread with max loads in it. One of the reasons and a good one is here, taking into consideration the differences between Rem and Win brass is 4.1 gns if a max load is made for Win and used it may be safe in Win brass but would be a 4.1 gn overload in Rem brass.
Notice I never gave particulars. That's for you and your gun to decide.


When posting loads give their source, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon, Sierra ect or some other source but give it, and components, bullets by brand and weight, cases by brand, powder with full designation, ie H4198 and IMR4198 are sometimes not equal.
Well, for starters, IMR4198 and H4198 are NOT the same powder. Next, I never gave a load so I don't post components either. Pick the powder, use what you have, and work up.

[shdwlkr]

For most of my loads I look at 3-5 reloading manuals and find the 3/4 max load and then use that as my max load or stay a little below it. The 45-70 is and never was a magnum so why look for magnum power from it.
I load to have fun shooting an old caliber that has refused to die and for the pure fun of throwing a 330-450 grain slug down range and seeing what I can do with it at pressures in the mid range for the caliber.
heck for that matter I never load anything really heavy anymore just hurts the shoulder to much and I can't see where it helps my ability to hit the target or game so why do it.
just my thoughts
As to the buffalo bore and others who hot load the 45-70, yes it can be done and with any cartridge for that matter but what good is it if you blow up your firearm and loose parts of you or your life doing so. I don't know of any cartridge that you can't put to much power in and make things happen sometimes what you want and most times what you don't want.
The metal of the firearm and how it all locks up when you charge a cartridge in the chamber are all worked out at the factory for a specific amount of pressure and even a safety factor of some value and we will never know this amount and I really don't care as I stay in the mid range of published data and even then check from as many sources as I can find and even sometimes call Sierra bullets smiths to make sure that I have a safe load in my firearm.
YOU only get one chance to be stupid most times with overloads in a firearm and I don't care to test that theory out to see if I can beat it.

[Adam10mm]

As to the buffalo bore and others who hot load the 45-70, yes it can be done and with any cartridge for that matter but what good is it if you blow up your firearm and loose parts of you or your life doing so.
My company and others like Double Tap and Buffalo Bore use powders that obtain high velocity without raising pressure. DT and I as well as others have loaded and sold a 405gr JSP to 1800+fps in a 22 inch Marlin and kept pressure within Trapdoor pressure.



The metal of the firearm and how it all locks up when you charge a cartridge in the chamber are all worked out at the factory for a specific amount of pressure and even a safety factor of some value and we will never know this amount and I really don't care as I stay in the mid range of published data and even then check from as many sources as I can find and even sometimes call Sierra bullets smiths to make sure that I have a safe load in my firearm.
YOU only get one chance to be stupid most times with overloads in a firearm and I don't care to test that theory out to see if I can beat it.
That's fine. However there are handloaders out there like myself that know what I'm doing, know the risks, and understand more about internal ballistics than most other handloaders can safely load beyond published data, (which is merely a guide, not the gospel).

[jh45gun]

You also have a vested interest in this since you sell ammo! Or at least did if your going out of business???

shdwlkr is right on with his comments about shooting heavy loads I do the same for all my guns not only does it save powder, but it is easier on me and the gun. More than one person has found out shooting a diet of heavy loads has loosened their gun up. Of course that depends on the action some are stronger than others. But I would suspect ANY gun that takes a constant pounding is going to wear out faster.

[Adam10mm]

You also have a vested interest in this since you sell ammo! Or at least did if your going out of business???
Yes I'm closing. The balance of the components I have in stock are being loaded and sold.