.38Wad Cutter Loads

[Sarge 105]

I am trying to find some good .38Special full wad cutter loads for my S&W Model 52. I have tried 2.7gr of Bullseye with 148gr Full hollowbase Speer wad cutter, but my pistol jams. Any sugestions?
Thanks
Sarge

[Hardcast416taylor]

When I loaded for a S&W 52 I would seat the flat nosed wascutter just below the case mouth and put a slight roll over crimp on th aid in feeding. The powder I used was 3.3 gr. Win. 231 or 3.3 gr. HP-38. Load must be pretty fair as I always placed when my base competed. I didn`t have failure to cycle problems, course that was a "few" years ago. Robert

[Sarge 105]

Robert:
I have some 231 powder and will give your 3.3gr. load a try.
Thanks Sarge

[Larry Gibson]

The one M52 I had years ago was a bust with HBWCs. As noted an increased powder charge is necessary for reliable functioning. With Speer and Hornady HBWCs plus some of my own lead alloy cast ones when I got to reliable functioning with Bullseye and 231 the pressure was too much and the HBWC skirts were getting blown. This of course destroyed accuracy. Simply switching to a regular FB'd WC solved the problem and 2.7 gr of Bulseye proved to be a very accurate and reliable load.

Larry Gibson

[2shot]

In my 52 I use 2.8 of Bullseye in Remington cases and with a 148 GR. Remington HBWC. I have also used the H&G 50 148 GR WC with success with the same powder charge. I have used as low as 2.5 of Bullseye and the Remington HBWC and have had 100% reliability with my 52 but didn't get good accuracy with this light load.

Some things I have noticed with my 52 that have caused FTF with the above loads and some other loads also.
Changed magazine springs with the ones I bought from Numrich and got FTF, these are very heavy springs being almost double the thickness of the factory springs and much stiffer also.
( I believe that the extra presure that these heavy springs put on bottom of the slide with the next cartridge caused this). Changed the springs back to factory standard rated ones bought from Wolff and my 52 went back to being reliable 100% of the time.

Changed main spring to a Wolff to the next heavier from factory rating and got FTF. (I believe that the same thing was happening here with the hammer exerting more presure upon the bottom of the slide during cycling and caused FTF). I went back to the factory standard rated main spring and got 100% reliability back.

You don't state what kind of jams you are getting. My thoughts are that if anyone buys a used S&W 52 and gets any FTF that they should replace both the magazine springs and the main springs with Wolff and stay with what Wolff says in the factory rating for this gun. There are too many kitchen gunsmiths that think they are changing this wonderful target gun into something better when they change things out, they forget that this gun has a long slide movment and is designed for target ammo running at low presures. The model 52 is a finicky gun but set up the way they came from the factory and with the right loads they are 100 % reliable and accurate.

Just my thoughts.
2shot

[MT Gianni]

PM Bruce B, He and his wife shot theirs a bunch.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I shot a lot of M52 in Bullseye comp using H&G #251, a double end flat face WC and seated it flush with the case mouth. Lube was/is NRA old formula 2138 Alox/ Beeswax. Powder charge 2,6 grains 700X. Weighed bullets to within .1 grain. I sized bullets to .357 when using commercial cases and .356 with milspec brass. The 700X with the deep seated WC ran the action fine; no jams, no feeding or ejection problems. Minimal recoil, burned clean and gave tight groups at 25 meters as long as there was no wind. I had been using 2.7 grains of Bullseye and it grouped well, but the recoil was sharper-at least it seemed so to me and in the bullseye comp game you play whatever cards can get you an extra point. LLS

[fourarmed]

Before I went to a .45 BE gun, I shot a 52-2 for years with the Speer HBWC and 2.8 of Bullseye or 3.0 of 231, and never had a bit of trouble. I used mixed cases, too. Are you seating flush with the mouth of the case or below? That is important. I think the solution to your problem may be in the gun, as earlier posters have suggested.

[Evil Dog]

Oh wow.... I LOVE this thread. I just bought a Model 52 so was looking for load info. Thanks guys, I surely appreciate it !!!

[Echo]

Sarge, you didn't indicate what kind of jam you were getting with your 52 (what a sweet gun!). Stovepipe? FTF?

[Sarge 105]

I have been getting fired cases that fail to extract all the way which jams the next loaded round in the magizine.

[2shot]

I have been getting fired cases that fail to extract all the way which jams the next loaded round in the magizine.


Could be one of the following three things besides the obvious dirty gun/chamber if this is happening with every magazine that you have for this gun.

1, Too heavy of a recoil spring
2, Too heavy of a hammer main spring
3, Too heavy of a magazine spring.

All of the above three will slow the slide down enough that you will get jams like you describe. The load you are shooting should work fine with a factory stock Model 52. If it only happens with one magazine then it's that magazine.

You can get all of the factory rated springs from Wolff at very reasonable prices, they are worth replacing if you bought the 52 used.

2shot

[Sarge 105]

I tried approx. 4 different loads and some factory federal .38Wad Cutter match. I am still geting jams. The fired cartridge case is not being pulled all the way out of the chamber and the next round in the mag jams into the back of the fired case. I think the extractor is in need of replacement, as I have loaded one round at a time in the chamber and fired, the brass falls out approx. 6 or7" to my right. So I belive it is a extractor/ejector problem. Looks like I will have to send it of to Smith & Wesson.
Thanks
Sarge.

[GBertolet]

I have a 52-1 and although the extractors are different, I experienced the same problem a few years back. A new extractor cured the problem. The hook was worn and was slipping off the rims during the extraction cycle. One other longshot is that you may have crud under the extractor, inhibiting it's inward travel to properly grip the rim. The only way to know this is remove the extractor and look. Good luck!

[Sarge 105]

Thanks everyone for you input. I have sent it off to S&W for repair. I will post what they find when I receve it back.

[Sarge 105]

Talked with S&W this morning they are replacing the Extractor and spring, on my Model 52. Should be back in two weeks or so $74.00.

[Echo]

No 2 ways about it, Sarge, ANY 38 Special autoloader can be an unforgiving Bee Eye Itch. I believe the 52 is actually friendlier than my Clark - one reason why I don't shoot it much.

[Shiloh]

Used as little as 2.5 gr Of Bullseye for the .38 with severl types of 148-150 gr. wad-cutters.
about as mild as I want to try.

SHiloh

[Sarge 105]

I have received my Model 52 back from S&W they replaced the extractor and spring. I have not had a chance to try it out, but I plan to next week.

[82nd airborne]

i just borrowed my dads wc mold and was looking for some data as well. i know its not ideal but anyone got any loads for 2400? i have alot of it and would like to use it for the .38. ive been using 3-3.3gr unique.

[Echo]

82nd, what pistol will you be shooting those WC's in? Need to know. Also need to know - plinker, or Self-Defense - or competition?

[82nd airborne]

light plinking, its my wifes taurus 851, 2".

[Echo]

Two inch bbl pretty much disqualifies the 2400 powder. A good percentage of it would burn outside the bbl! That short bbl will fairly demand a fast powder. If Unique is the only other powder you have, use it. Otherwise, BE, 231, HP38, &cetera would be a best choice. Try 2.5 grs of BE & see if it functions the gun. If not, go up to 2.6 - and so on.

[82nd airborne]

ive still got 8 lbs of milsurp that is between aa5 and aa7. 6 gr of that gets a 158swc about 600fps, and it was super cheap. i was mainly curious for experimentation purposes. i guess ill have to use that 2400 up in my black hawk hunter 44mag.

[Sarge 105]

Tried out the repaired Model 52-2. works Great with 148gr. full W/C and 231@3.3 gr. Flush load with slight round crimp. Thanks everyone for your input.

[2shot]

Glad you got the 52 worked out, great shooting guns!

Can you tell us what you did to repair it and get it to work?

Thanks
2shot

[Sarge 105]

I sent it to Smith & Wesson, they replaced the extractor and spring then test fired it. charged $74.00. Now it works properly.

[unclebill]

ive still got 8 lbs of milsurp that is between aa5 and aa7. 6 gr of that gets a 158swc about 600fps, and it was super cheap. i was mainly curious for experimentation purposes. i guess ill have to use that 2400 up in my black hawk hunter 44mag.

is that the pulled
9mm NATO similar to accurate #7 powder?
i have a ton of it myself.