Winchester 94 in 375 or 356 with cast?

[zac0419]

I'm a newbie,
I've read most the loading data and articles that can be found on the net. I know that these are "basically" ballistic equals (one's a little faster with a better BC, one make's a bigger hole) I willing to consider the 200-250gr ballistic differences negligible. It's going to be my woods gun for hunting large game up to, and hopefully someday, including moose. All shots under 200yds. Price differences can be set aside because I have time to wait for the right deal.

In your experience, is there one that is better at shooting cast?

How about heavy cast?

What max weight can I expect these to shoot well?

Recoil differences if any?

Thanks in advance,
Zac

[Throwback]

I have never shot the .356. Both caliber rifles come with a 1-12 twist. The .356 ought to be able to stabilize about anything you will find to load in it including the 358009 if you were to find one at the right price. This one runs almost 280 grains. All of the .35's I have shot had slower twists (1-16 is typical) and they have been brilliant to cast for but 250 grains is about all they will stabilize at ordinary velocities.

The .375 is very cast-friendly and the Lyman 375-449 (268 grains) is all I use. Fortunately it is easy to find. This is a gas check bullet but the flat based bullets are good choices too while not offering as much velocity range. All that I have seen are more or less Loverin style bullets and should work very well as long as they are not greatly over-sized. If you have to size a bullet too much it gets distorted and does not shoot as well as it otherwise would.

Recoil can be subjective but with substantially similar performance any difference would be negligible. The .375 can be loaded to equal and exceed factory ballistics. I don't find this objectionable but some people do not even like the kick of a .30-30 carbine.

[jh45gun]

I don't find this objectionable but some people do not even like the kick of a .30-30 carbine.

That would have to be really recoil sensitive as most folks love the 30/30 for its mild recoil even in a light gun like a 30/30 Win Carbine.

[Tony65x55]

I've owned and loaded for both. There is nothing to choose between them. Both are very accurate and hard hitting under 200 yards. Either will do what you want them too. The only difference I would observe is brass availability. 356 brass is getting hard to get and you can't make it from anything else except .307 win, which is also hard to get. .375 brass can be made from inexpensive .30-30 brass or .38-55 brass. Both are great calibers.

[zac0419]

Throwback,
Good info on weight, I was wondering if it was able to approach the 300gr mark. I'm not recoil squeamish but I thought the 356 might be a little more snappy. No worries, for me it's like choosing from two versions of exactly what I'm looking for.

Tony,
Kind of what I figured. The brass for both is available from Midway right now but I heard that is only seasonal. Making 375 from something else is a good point. I think the "bigger hole" might win in the end. I figured I'd check with you guys first.

Zac

[shdwlkr]

I have the 375 well two to be correct and I like the bigger hole that the 375 makes and you could get a mold to cast a 300 grain for the 375 but you would loose on powder capacity as it will set in the case more.
I use the 249 and 268 grain molds and like them better than the jacketed bullets. By loading my own I can control the recoil by the amount of powder that I put in the case. I don't like shooting much past 200 yards anymore as at my age eyesight isn't what it used to be so I work with a shorter range and am happy.
I have sort of cheated some as one of my 375 winchesters has a 26 inch octagon barrel so I do get some more fps over the standard factory and it gets shot more than the other but I like them both. If the factory doesn't make what you want then go and have it made the way you want and don't look back.

[MT Gianni]

My 356 liked the Saeco352 and did OK with the LY358627. It was replaced with a BLR358 for less money and a more accurate gun, fwiw.

[silverbuzzard]

I just bought a BLR ,coincidently ,from Ennis MT .I used to live in Bigfork and Missoula in the 80s but have moved back to Hoosierville.
Still hunt the Blackfoot in the fall.

Anyway, was wondering if you cast the heavies for 358. If you do, I would be willing to buy some from you as I can't find them anywhere commercially.
If you don't cast ,maybe you know where I can get some of the heavies
Mark

[MT Gianni]

I am not set up to sell and don't need any disagreement on a class 6 FFL. We may arrive at a mutual swap for something you cast. Send me a PM.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I would definatly go with the 375. Woods distances are normally close. If you are looking at popping a 1000 moose you do want a BIG slug to be smashing it with. A 375 will easily launch a 300 grain boolit at 1500 fps. Make that a 50x50 mix and you will have a 40 caliber mushroomed slug plowing through lungs and or heart. If you are using a 1885 single shot you can fit a 320 plus grainer.
The 35 s are good cartriges but as always larger holes are better.

[Trailblazer]

I have a 356 Winchester 94. For your consideration.

100 yard group with a 300 grain NEI design, launched at 1900 FPS.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/23947356WIN-290NEI.JPG

200 yard group with the Saeco 352 which is 250 grains, launched at 2100 FPS.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/23947356W-200yd.jpg

Buck killed at a Leica lasered 260 yards with the Saeco bullet.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/504/23947Deer.jpg

I don't have a 375 but it would be very hard to beat my 356. I believe the 375's, at least the top ejects, have a lighter barrel contour. My 356 is an AE and it has a heavy barrel. It makes the rifle a little heavier to carry but it dampens recoil and probably helps accuracy. As far as recoil, I broke down and put a pad on the rifle when I realized I did not look forward to shooting it while developing loads. It does hammer you off the bench with the heavy weights.

[zac0419]

Trailblazer,

Real nice groups. Nice buck too.
Sounds like you ended up with a real nice shooter.
Thats why it's been tough to decide, a lot of people swear by both of these "obsolete" cartridges.

[Throwback]

Zac, I believe you have a bunch of good answers here. You will have to work harder to find a 300 grain mold for the .35's but they are out there for the .375. I think you will find either to be a peach to load for. I have had very good luck accuracy wise with both bore diameters compared to anything smaller. The bigger the bore, the more forgiving.

[shdwlkr]

If you have a 375 and think the barrel is to light put another barrel on it. I put a 26 inch octagon on one of mine and I really like the extra weight and how it shoots.
I was looking for any big bore and found a 375 at a good price and then found another rebuildable one and put the octagon barrel on it, long mag tube, new wood and then duracoated the metal and have been very happy with my results on this first custom rifle to me.
I like the straight walled case, the heavy barrel and my 268 grain bullet in this rifle don't know how fast they go as I don't have any way to check it. I have loaded mild and some stout loads and I can handle them even at my old age. That extra weight in the rifle does take up a lot of recoil and using lead bullets helps too.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I've owned and loaded for both. There is nothing to choose between them. Both are very accurate and hard hitting under 200 yards. Either will do what you want them too. The only difference I would observe is brass availability. 356 brass is getting hard to get and you can't make it from anything else except .307 win, which is also hard to get. .375 brass can be made from inexpensive .30-30 brass or .38-55 brass. Both are great calibers.

Tony65X55, mentioned 375 brass can be made from 30-30 brass and yes you can, but the problem is 375 brass is designed for higher cup pressures than 30-30 brass so it would be advisable to load at least 10% below 375 loading data. and the same holds true for 38-55 brass. This is very easy to check just weigh some 30-30 b. then weigh some 375 b. The web area of the 375 brass is some what thicker than 30-30 brass.

[NickSS]

I would pick the 375 only because I love that cartridge and is older variant the 38-55. I had a 30-30 barreled Ruger # 1 a bunch of years ago. It was a gun an old friend of mine had built for himself. When he died I bought it from his wife who tried to give it to me but I paid her a fair price for it seeing as I figured she could use the money. Anyway, I had no worries that the gun would blow up so I loaded some really hot 30-30 loads. I actually chronographed one load using a 168 gr Sierra matchking bullet at 2615 fps form its 26 inch barrel. This did not seam to bother the brass at all. By the way I would not try that load in any lever gun I know of. So although the brass is thinner if it is well supported it probably will not blow out. Case life is another subject.

[zac0419]

First off, thanks for all the replies. I've decided to go with the 375. I won't be back in the states until July so I have time to track down the perfect rifle. I'm just going to keep checking the auction sites till the right deal surfaces, can't shoot it till July anyways so time is on my side. Just to cement the decision, I ordered 500 brass from Midway since they had it in stock. When I pick one and get it delivered I'll post a pic.

Thanks again,
Zac

[shdwlkr]

Zac
You will never regret going to the 375 winchester, well it could get your mind going on the old 45-70 another straight wall case and yes I did get one a few years back and love them both.
I use my 375 winchester like a modern 38-55 that I can load a little hotter. I mainly shoot lead bullets since I got into casting, but still have some copper bullets just in case I want to shoot something different.
If you really get into the 375 winchester you will most likely want to get into cast bullets also and hand loading is another fun aspect of having a 375 winchester.
Just looking at what is available on the net the average price on a good winchester bb in 375 winchester is creeping up towards a $1000 bucks, there are some nice ones for less that come up every once in a while as I saw one that I didn't have the funds for go for $675. I would say that if you can get one between $650-800 you have done good if you do your homework first. You might want to have family check out the local firearms dealers in your home area also as they just might be able to find one for less and you know them and they know you so you will not get taken.
My gunsmith that I had years ago before he died used to get at least one purchase a month from me and he knew what I wanted and even got to the point if it didn't meet his or my standards it went back before I even got a chance to see it and he was never wrong if it went back as he took some great pictures for me to look at and see if I disagreed with his decision in 20 plus purchases anything that went back was fine with me.

[Dan Cash]

I have an old Brit built Manlicher in .375x2 1/2 Flanged. It launches a 270 grain slug at 2100 +/- and is an absolute killing machine out to 200. After that trajectory makes target contact a bit difficult but the thump is there. It is the same as a .375 Win for all practical purposes. I think the .356 would be a dandy but, as pointed out, brass is going away.

[shdwlkr]

The funny part of all this is the 375 winchester was the first of the big bores to disappear but it is the 356 and 307 brass that has disappeared first. Strange how things work out.

[zac0419]

Well I promised you guys a pic when I got the .375, so here goes.

I was deciding between a pretty nice one that could be had for about $450, which was a great deal, and this one for $595. The $450 had pretty plain wood but bright metal. Then this one popped up.... the wood was IMO beautiful and it was only a little more (still a great deal) so I jumped on it. The blueing is so bright the FFL thought it was new.

I won't be home to shoot it for another month or so, hopefully it lives up to my expectations.

Thanks to all that gave input, I couldn't be happier.

[shdwlkr]

Zac
Very nice looking rifle. I have two and may even get more, I like the 375 because of the size of the hole it makes, the fact it is straight wall case and I am trying to find time to be home long enough to work on a 350 grain fn bullet with it. I got the bullets now just need time to load and shoot it.

[AnthonyB]

My BB356 is my favorite hunting rifle. It shoots the 3589 into less than 1.5 groups at 100 yards at close to 2000 fps. I think I could probably break 2000 safely but don't see any reason to do so. I have a Marlin 356 as well, and both rifles run cast loads fine with necked-up 308 Winchester brass.
I would love to have a 375 as well, but don't think it offers any advantages over the 356.
Tony

[Beerd]

Tony
how deep do you have to seat the 358009 to make it cycle through the Winchester and Marlin actions?
..