talk to me about 10mm...

[mike in co]

what 10mm do you have ?
i'm looking at an eea witness (999220) full size, 15 plus one( i think) sa/da.... plan is to shoot 200 at 1000 fps...... let me know what you think of the 10mm. ( no plastic, want weight, no striker fired...what an external hammer, want double stack)
thanks

[Doc_Stihl]

I love the 10mm, but brass has been hard to come by in my parts.

I'm loading for a cousins Delta Elite. Shoots great. I'm loading Lee 200 Truncated's over unique for about 1200fps if memory serves me. Great cartridge. After shooting/loading the 10mm I bought the wife a XD .40, but only because of the brass issue.

[shotman]

I would go Delta too You are going to pay for one but its worth it DONT buy used brass get new starline and go from there. 90% of used brass are trash cause of the GLOCK
Now if you want a shooter get a S&W 610

[sargenv]

I am currently loading those 40 cal swaged bullets made from 9mm brass and bullets swaged up to .40 cal. They are coming in weighing about 193-195 gr. I found a Longshot load that has them moving along at 1150 fps out of a 6.5" tubed 610. They make just shy of 1100 fps with the 3 7/8" barrelled 610 (Yep, I have one of each). I load them very long in a 40 S&W case using Federal Small Pistol primers. OAL = 1.260" or about what the 10 mm would be loaded to.

There is a push through sizing die available from Lee that you can use to recondition your Glocked brass. In fact, I've loaded glocked brass in my 610 and it fires fine and lasts a good long time. YMMV though.. I don't think I've ever used any new brass in my 610.. it has always been range pickup or once fired. 10 mm or 40 S&W.

[mike in co]

I would go Delta too You are going to pay for one but its worth it DONT buy used brass get new starline and go from there. 90% of used brass are trash cause of the GLOCK
Now if you want a shooter get a S&W 610

no double stack in a delta elite......( go read the rules)

[Blazin]

I have a custom 5" 1911 that was built in 40 cal to compete with, but I had the 'smith fit a spare barrel in 10mm.

[ph4570]

Not a stacker but I really like my S&W 1006. It likes lead with no problems.

[softpoint]

I have a Glock with an aftermarket barrel, brass holds up just fine. I also have a Kimber Stainless Target in 10mm, but, of course it is a single stack. One way to get what you are looking for would be to get a P16-40 Para Ordnance and rechamber to 10mm. I had one of those and other than being a little heavy, it was a good gun.

[sargenv]

And the P16-40 will accept 10 mm in the mags.. I load the same OAL in my 40's for the P16, and actually the same bullet but loaded so that is makes major and not the hotter 1150 fps load. I load it to about 950 fps with the 195's. You can get +3 and +4 extended mag bases for the standard cap P16 magazines..

[Adam10mm]

With that, your choices are Para P16.40 rechambered to 10mm (Hunter Customs of Osborn, MO is about $70 and is my recommendation) or the EAA. EAA's customer service and "gunsmith" are both a joke in the industry. Maybe if the gun was free, but otherwise my money would go into a 1911. Get a Para then rechamber or go custom with a Caspian widebody frame.

As for the cartridge, the 10mm Automatic is the most versatile semi-auto cartridge ever developed. It's a ballistic twin to the .357 Magnum and most definitely is not close to the .41 Magnum except when comparing the watered down Winchester 175gr STHP load in each. Beyond that, there is no comparison (.41 wins hands down). Bullet choices are 135gr to 200gr. Custom cast or jacketed swage bullets can go heavier. I have a 225/230gr SWC mold and have made a 245gr JHP with 9mm casings and CH4D #101 dies on a RC press. You can load the 10mm Auto to be nice and light matching ballistics of a 9mm to heavy 10mm Norma and beyond loads for the woods or bowling pins. The 225/230gr LSWC I cast gets pushed to 1100fps in a 4.25" Commander 1911 (my custom carry piece using a Kimber Pro Carry Al frame and a Fusion SS slide).

Lately brass is rare due to Starline's backlog but it's supposed to get better over the summer. Double Tap has brass with their stamp on it, made by Starline, but it's nickel only and expensive like everything else DT's name is on. I'd wait for Starline before I buy DT brass.

For powder it's pretty simple. WSF for lead, Longshot or #9 for jacketed. HS6 is decent and respectable as is #5 and Power Pistol. Anything else isn't worth the time or your money.

[frankenfab]

10mm is an awesome caliber. I have the EAA Winess Match. It is quite accurate. The only problem I have had is that the trigger does not reset every once in a while. I can keep this from happening if I pay really close attention to my trigger pull. Other than that, it is a BEAUTIFUL gun with an excellent feel in the hand. VERY accurate. I haven't looked in to the problem, because I haven't had time.

Anybody know the fix?

[mike in co]

i had not considered a 40 to 10mm "upgrade", as my 40's are all 9mm framed based.

the para converted to 10mm........besides the bbl...what other changes to deal with the change ?

pressure seems to be the same.......i see 33.3 in the 10mm and 32.6 for the 40(both cip)...


mike in co

[9.3X62AL]

S&W Model 1026 here. Love it. 200 grain castings at 1200 FPS are safe and reasonable in the S&W. A soft-pointed RCBS 200 TC at 1200 FPS seems a bit more than a 357 Magnum, a bit less than a 41 Mag. Splits the difference, really.

[Trapshooter]

I've got both the full sized and compact EAA Witness steel guns with Wonder Finish in 10mm. I also bought and fit a 40 S&W barrel to the compact. I haven't shot the full sized much (hard to find brass in the snow, flung somewhere between here and the next county).

Both were picked up used at pretty competitive prices. Some versions of the compact had problems with slides cracking, which may have something to do with the resale price. If you are considering EAA, you can read more on some of the 10mm forums. So far I've had no problems, but I haven't shot any "Norma Equivalent" loads either.

I found the compact with the 10mm barrel one of the most accurate handguns I own. Several others who have shot the

I bought the 40 barrel so I could use cheap readily available brass for plinking. I use the 10mm mags, and so far haven't had a problem with FTF. I use the Lee tumble lube TC bullet, and the old Lyman 38-40 bullet (fn-rn).

The only beef I have with the 10 is the way it flings the brass. One of my projects for this year is to build some sort of brass catcher for it. (Or trade them both off for a 610. :-)

Trapshooter

[richbug]

i had not considered a 40 to 10mm "upgrade", as my 40's are all 9mm framed based.

the para converted to 10mm........besides the bbl...what other changes to deal with the change ?

pressure seems to be the same.......i see 33.3 in the 10mm and 32.6 for the 40(both cip)...


mike in co

I did one. Rechamber, or buy a new barrel( you want the barrel with a Clark/Para ramp). Switch barrels with a new barrel would be my preference were I to do it again. Just add a 22-24# recoil spring, everything else works as is.


Brownells has them for $169 retail, probably some fitting required.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=11296/pid=5011/sku/Clark_Plain_Ramped_Barrel__10mm

[OBXPilgrim]

"Vltor Weapons Systems is resurrecting the Jeff Cooper-designed Bren Ten semi-automatic pistol in both its original 10mm Auto chambering and in 45 ACP.
...will be distributed by Sporting Products, LLC."

May 2010 American Rifleman - page 28.

[Adam10mm]

i had not considered a 40 to 10mm "upgrade", as my 40's are all 9mm framed based.
A 10mm is an upgrade from the .40 S&W for sure. Also, the .40 is based off the 9mm OAL and similar size guns. The 10mm was based off the .45 ACP OAL and similar size guns. A 10mm will have a .45 ACP size frame. it will not fit into a 9mm size gun.



the para converted to 10mm........besides the bbl...what other changes to deal with the change ?
Nothing. Rechamber to 10mm Automatic and go on with life. Para .40 mags will work with the 10mm since the P16 was originally a 10mm. Instead of retooling to make .40 barrels and .40 mags, they held the reamers short and used the same press for the mag bodies.


pressure seems to be the same.......i see 33.3 in the 10mm and 32.6 for the 40(both cip)...

10mm Automatic SAAMI MAP is 37,500 psi. 40 S&W is only 35,000 psi. Most factory .40 S&W is loaded to 30,000 to 32,500 psi.

[zardoz]

Glock 20, with a Lone Wolf aftermarket barrel, and an aftermarket 20# recoil spring on a stainless steel guide rod.

Been shooting 175 grain Lee TC, from water dropped WW alloy.

The aftermarket barrel has well supported chamber, and no base bulges due to loose chamber specs. No feed problems so far either.

Managed to get 500 new Starline brass, and a bit more once-fired just a few weeks ago. They may be on backorder there again though.

Very satisfied with the set-up now, and gun/barrel/spring works great with cast boolits at 1250-1300 ft/s loadings.

[mike in co]

A 10mm is an upgrade from the .40 S&W for sure. Also, the .40 is based off the 9mm OAL and similar size guns. The 10mm was based off the .45 ACP OAL and similar size guns. A 10mm will have a .45 ACP size frame. it will not fit into a 9mm size gun.



Nothing. Rechamber to 10mm Automatic and go on with life. Para .40 mags will work with the 10mm since the P16 was originally a 10mm. Instead of retooling to make .40 barrels and .40 mags, they held the reamers short and used the same press for the mag bodies.


10mm Automatic SAAMI MAP is 37,500 psi. 40 S&W is only 35,000 psi. Most factory .40 S&W is loaded to 30,000 to 32,500 psi.

thanks 10mm,( and the rest of you too)
my quickload has an error on the saami pressure........one of the reasons i asked.


i may just have to look for a para40.......
add a barsto bbl...hmmm

mike in co

[softpoint]

i had not considered a 40 to 10mm "upgrade", as my 40's are all 9mm framed based.

the para converted to 10mm........besides the bbl...what other changes to deal with the change ?

pressure seems to be the same.......i see 33.3 in the 10mm and 32.6 for the 40(both cip)...


mike in co

I'd use a couple pounds stiffer mainspring with the heavier loads, and put a shockbuff in and see if it is hitting the shockbuff very hard. I don't care for shockbuffs in carry pistols, but they are fine in hunting and target guns. If the gun is sprung correctly, shockbuff not needed. Some folks change ejectors, still probably not needed, unless you can't leave a 1911 alone, like me!:mrgreen:

[Adam10mm]

A Para P16 10mm needs a standard 20lb recoil spring and that's it. Leave the other gizmos aside. No gun will ever need a shock buffer. I would never allow one in any of my guns, period.

[mike in co]

i'm still looking but a used p16 is over 600 plus a 10mm bll.....







and the lowly eaa witness is........well a lot less...........and i ad nothing to it.



have a line on a used p16...we will see......



mike in co

[richbug]

A Para P16 10mm needs a standard 20lb recoil spring and that's it. Leave the other gizmos aside. No gun will ever need a shock buffer. I would never allow one in any of my guns, period.


In a stainless gun 20# is probably enough with factory ammo. IMHO, A steel gun needs a bit more or you will get some battering, especially with Norma spec ammo. I run an 18.5# in my 40.

[richbug]

i'm still looking but a used p16 is over 600 plus a 10mm bll.....







and the lowly eaa witness is........well a lot less...........and i ad nothing to it.



have a line on a used p16...we will see......



mike in co

Be advised, most "used" P-16's out there were IPSC guns. That means lots of rounds, and they may be looser than you would like.

[69daytona]

I had a Bren Ten and it was a great shooting pistol, Im in line to get one of the new ones from Vltor if they can get it in Calif.
If not I will probably do the EAA conversion since I have a bunh of brass already.

[Adam10mm]

In a stainless gun 20# is probably enough with factory ammo. IMHO, A steel gun needs a bit more or you will get some battering, especially with Norma spec ammo. I run an 18.5# in my 40.
20lb for everything. I've owned and built plenty of Para 10mms and shot Norma and beyond loads in them with nothing more than a 20lb spring. PF was between 225-245 at all times.

[mike in co]

ok i bit the boolit( air cooled range lead..lol) .
i missed the para p16 auction, cause i was at work...it went for 500...kkkrappppppp!!!

so bought a new eaa witness.

i'll start a new thread on loading.......
thanks guys


mike in co