Help with a Mauser bore

[SciFiJim]

I have a 8mm Turk mauser that I purchased recently and am starting to clean up. These pictures of the bore are after approx. 100 patches of Hoppes #9. I am still getting black on the patches. I am new to milsurp and for that matter looking down rifle bores. Can you tell me what I am looking at? Is this dirt, carbon, pitting, or something else?

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/MauserBarrel1.jpg

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/MauserBarrel2.jpg

[TCLouis]

As far as I can tell the bore looks pretty good. If you can do the foaming bore cleaners and leave it in there for a couple of hours. If the can has extended tubing apply from the chamber.

Repeat several times and then see what happens with "normal" bore cleaners.

Sounds almost like what you have is old grease to preser4ve the bore.

[SciFiJim]

The old grease is a possibility. The bolt was still filled with cosmoline. I took it apart and poured boiling water on and through it to melt the cosmoline away. Do I need to use a grease in the bolt or is gun oil sufficient?

[Multigunner]

Probably an agregate of carbon, atomized lead, and graphite.
It will come out but not easily,
When I have one with thick deposits in the grooves I generally clean it as well as possible using balistol and bronze brushes, often wearing out several brushes, then shoot three to five rounds to warm the bore and clean again, repeating the last steps several times.
In the old days I often found it took several range secessions with two or more cleaning breaks each time before the old deposits were completely gone.

Some milsurp ammo is loaded with non combustables that serve to reduce muzzleflash or act as temperature moderators for high flame temperature propellants, these along with hot atomized lead from open base FMJ and laquer bullet sealants can form some pretty tough deposits.

One rifle which had less than 200 rounds through it since being inspected and the bore at that time pristine, came back so fouled it looked like it had been swabbed with roofing repair sealant.
The gun safe it was in got jammed by a tipped over guncase and it was left un cleaned for many months.

After getting the bore looking spotless I then tried gunslick foam for the first time. No fouling had remained after regular methods, but the gunslick broke loose a huge deposit of old fouling from the shoulder area of the chamber.

I would say foaming bore cleaners are effective, and should greatly reduce the work in cleaning this sort of fouling.

I always follow up with balistol anyway, it also protects and never quits working on remaining deposits so long as its wet.
A bore that looks perfect and left with a coating of balistol in the bore for a week can show a suprising amount of loosened fouling when a clean patch is then run through it.
Balistol removes fresh fouling very quickly, it may not get it out all ancient hardbaked fouling at one sitting, but swabbed out once or twice a month sooner or later it gets it all.

PS
Dacron hairpad or bronze wool are also pretty effective, if the fouling is thick JB bore polish can leave the compound mixed in with softened old fouling it can't break loose, making the situation worse.

[mike in co]

if there is brown /rust, get a ss bore brush and naval jelly and try it a couple of times.

if just black try some ed's red.

any green/blue ?

no reason to be gentle with a old mil bore..get agressive.

use a brush a lot..and replace the brush often....

mike in co

[SciFiJim]

It was mostly just black. There was no silver like I get when cleaning out leading.

After the first cleaning session, I filled the barrel with Kroil. Seems to work for everything else. I figured I would let it sit until tomorrow evening and see what it loosens.

[Multigunner]

It was mostly just black. There was no silver like I get when cleaning out leading.

After the first cleaning session, I filled the barrel with Kroil. Seems to work for everything else. I figured I would let it sit until tomorrow evening and see what it loosens.

Sounds like a good place to start.
I've plugged chambers and poured the bores full of Sweets 7.62 and left it for a couple of days. It really gets a chance to work that way, but takes alot of expensive solvent.
At other times I've plugged the chamber, inserted a cleaning rod from the muzzle with a patch with 0000 steel wool wraped around it , not a really tight fit just enough for a light scrubbing action, then poured enough Sweets to fill about 1/4 of the bore.
Every few hours I'd pull the patch up near the muzzle then return it to the throat.
The steelwool cut away the surface of copper or cupro nickel fouling already reacting to the solvent and expose more surface for the solvent to work on to speed up the process..
It also works to keep the bore wet with solvent , and you don't want to leave a strong ammonia based solvent standing only part way up with dry steel above it, if the bore starts to dry above the level of the solvent a chemical reaction takes place at the interface of solvent and air, which can leave an etched ring in the bore.

When extra strong solvents were used to remove Cupro-Nickel fouling they stretched a rubber tube onto the muzzle so they could pour to a level above the muzzle, then kept a close eye on it to be sure it didn't leak or evaporate to expose steel to air. If the level dropped they'd top it up.
Those solvents were very hard on steel if too much air got to it before it was swabbed out and the bore oiled.

PS
Atomized lead mixed in with fouling won't show a bright surface, the lead scoured from the exposed base of the core is like the fine dusty pigments added to paint. It can get as hard or harder than baked on enamel.

[Bret4207]

I'm with MG. 4/0 steel wool, or even 3/0 in a pinch, won't hurt it. Use whatever solvents you have on hand. Warm the barrel with a hair drier and see if that helps. I would not shoot over the top of it.

[Calamity Jake]

Make your an electro-chemical bore cleaner(outers foul out). The instructions are on this sight some where.

It will clean all metal fouling out including rust and not harm the barrell steel if done properly.

[dragonrider]

Unless you bought it from another cast boolit shooter it is pretty rare to find and old milsurp with lead deposits. I will be copperr and carbon buildup. Brush the snot out of it. patch it a couple of times and use an Outers foul out. Then brush, patch and foul out again. I did a Mauserr with my foul out can't remember how many application it needed but each time the rod came out plated with copper. But eventually the bore was clean and in very good condition. Keep at it you will find the bore in time.

[SciFiJim]

Here is the barrel after three cleaning sessions. I finally resorted to wrapping some copper choreboy around a worn out brush and dipping it in Hoppes #9. I am still getting out black gunk. I am getting a very tiny amount of green on the patch. I don't know if it is copper from the bore or from the choreboy.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/MauserBarrel3.jpg

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/MauserBarrel4.jpg

[atr]

mix a little household cleaning ammonia with #9 and run patches soaked with that mixture....
let it set a few hours....then clean with WD40 and repeat unitil you get all the gunk and copper out.....I had an old spanish mauser that took a long time before both the black gunk and copper got removed..
patience is virtue
I also ran a patch soaked in #9 and valve grinding compound throught the bore a few times...that really loosed up the gunk
art

[Bret4207]

If more people would try steel wool or a Chore Boy there's be a lot less worn out brass brushes around....

Just remember, for all the nay sayers, (STEEL WOOL!!! IT'LL scratch your barrel!!!!)- 4/0 steel wool is what your gunsmith uses to polish your nice shiney barrel in many cases.

[Char-Gar]

Cleaning the barrel of an mil-surp rifle draws lots of opinions and everybody has their own theory and way of doing things. Here is mine:

1. Most often, in well used barrels, there is powder fouling and jackted bullet fouling in layers. What works on type of fouling often doesn't work on another.

2. I take the metal from the wood and pour about a gallon of boiling water down the barrel. You will be suprised how much junk that gets out and the remaining heat will dry the barrel nicely.

3. Next step is to use a good powder solvent like Ed's Red or the like and use wet patches until there is little or no black.

4. Step three is to use Sweets 7.62 on patches until there is no more green or blue.

5. It is then back to Ed's Red and it will likely produce more black.

6. Then it is back to Sweets

7. It is back and forth between Ed's Red and Sweets until the barrel is clean. You will always get a trace amount of metal color as that stuff has worked it's way into the pores of the steel. Don't worry about the trace amounts. Use a good rod guide.

The above has worked for me, so I have never tried electronic gizmos or foaming stuff. They might work as well or better, I just don't know.

[PAT303]

I once used toothpaste on a cloth patch to get muck out of an Enfield bore and it worked very well.Either way persistance is needed. Pat

[smlekid]

try putting some boiling water through the barrel then hit it with some sweets let it sit for 30 minutes or so and patch it out you will be surprised how much gunk will come out
personally I wouldn't leave ammonia based solvents in a bore for to long they can etch barrels looks like little pit marks don't ask how I found out :(

[largom]

If more people would try steel wool or a Chore Boy there's be a lot less worn out brass brushes around....

Just remember, for all the nay sayers, (STEEL WOOL!!! IT'LL scratch your barrel!!!!)- 4/0 steel wool is what your gunsmith uses to polish your nice shiney barrel in many cases.

Final step AFTER bluing, rub barrel down with 4/0 steel wool with light oil.
Also use 4/0 steel wool to get a matt finish on gun stocks. Steel wool [4/0] wrapped around a one caliber smaller bore brush with some brake or carb. cleaner applied will usually clean a very nasty bore very quickly. Special note * Brillo pads ARE NOT 4/0 steel wool.

Larry

[KCSO]

Just a guess but, you are looking at a light bulb?

Sorry, I would give it a shot of foaming bore cleaner and then shoot it.

[SciFiJim]

Actually, the light is the wall behind my cleaning bench. I used a 12 megapixel camera to take a close up looking down the barrel and then zoomed in on the picture with software.

It's amazing what I can see that way, that I can't see with the naked eye.