Locked Up '94 Winnie - Thoughts

[pressonregardless]

I had fellow offer me a pretty nice pre-64 '94 30-30 this weekend. Nice gun, didn't look like it has ever been apart. The problem is that the action will not open. The lever will drop about 1/2 way, but the top slide doesn't move at all. I didn't apply too much pressure to the lever, but she's locked up tighter than I've ever seen. If it wasn't pre-64, I wouldn't give it a second thought, as it is I'm not sure what to offer him for it. Do you guys have any ideas that might shed some light on this for me?

[thebigmac]

Could be a stuck brass in the chamber. Ask the owner if that could be it. If so, put some gun oil
down the barrel, about a good tablespoon full, and let it sit a night or two. After this you might have to use some leverage to open the action. If not, Have someone with the correct screwdrivers take
the gun apart.... The same thing happened to me. A fellow hunter had a shell stick in the chamber of his Win. 94. After fighting it for about 2 hours aked me to "fix it". I refused due to not having tools in camp with me. Later that evening he returned with the gun and asked $100.00 for it. No,
it was not Pre 64, but I bought it. After season, at home, I did the oil thing. It worked... Good luck

[NickSS]

A stuck shell could be it or it is possible that the breach bolt is rusted in place.

[pressonregardless]

Thanks for everones thoughts. The 1st thing that I thought about was that the action was bound by corrosion, and it might be, but the rifle itself is clean as a pin, with no visible corrosion. I didn't consider the fact that there might be spent brass in the chamber. I did check the magazine, and it appears empty.

Ok, I can see where I can use a cleaning rod or a dowel to determine if there is a round in the chamber. What would be the next step? If there is a spent round, would it be OK to tap it bit to see if that might dislodge it enough for the action to function. If I was to find a loaded round in the chamber would you reckon it would be OK to step outside and fire it?

I know I haven't been able to provide you guys with a lot of info, but does this problem sound expensive to fix? If it just requires time and tinkering that's right up my alley.

All thoughts appreciated !!

[Ekalb2000]

On the left hand side of the reciever, there is the screw that you remove to punch out a pin that attaches the lever and the bolt slide. Make sure that screw is not smoked down. On one of my lever actions, if it gets smoked checked, it will not cycle, no mater what you do. Ask me how I know this.
I brook my rifle down three time till I figured it out.
Above all safety first, till you find out you are dealing with an unloaded firearm.

[Trailblazer]

The pin that holds the lever to the bolt is also my first thought. I have no experience with smoking screws but it can also hang if the screw isn't tight enough and the pin drifts into the screw hole. The screw is at the top of the receiver on the left side about 1-1/2" back from the front of the receiver. There is a hole opposite it on the right side to put a punch into to push the pin out.

You can hammer on a stuck fired case as much as you want. I would keep pressure on the lever and tap on the cleaning rod if that is the problem. A stuck unfired cartridge will take gentler handling. Good luck.

[pressonregardless]

Thanks to everyone that has chimed in.

I think I'm going to make a deal on this rifle since I haven't heard anyone mention anything that would be a deal breaker.

Yes, I think the 1st order of business needs to be determining if there is a cartridge in the chamber, still a little fuzzy about what to do then.

Does anyone feel that any harm could be done by discharging this rifle if the bore is clear?

I have never had a '94 apart but have done a little reading about it the last few days, kinda curious about taking a look inside.

[NickSS]

I would first run a cleaning rod down the bore until it stops. At that point make a mark or hold the rod with your thumb against the muzzle and pull the rod out. Hold the rod along side your rifle and see if it is over 2 inches in front of the breach wear the end of the rod is. If it is near the breach but in front you have a empty case in the chamber. If it is more than 2 inches in front of the breach there is a loaded round in the chamber. If is is aligned with the breach bolt it is empty. I would then remove the take down screw which is the large headed one about an inch and a half from the front of the action and see if the pin is in place or not. Try the action and it should open unless there is a stuck case in the chamber and you miss measured. When you drop the lever does the rear breach locking bolt move down or does movement stop before the bolt retracts? If the bolt comes down insert a dowl down the bore and tap on it while applying opening force to the lever. This should allow the rifle to open. If you have a loaded round in the chamber, I would not fire as it may be an oversized shell like a 32 spl jamed into a 30-30 barrel. Instead I would use a dowl and tap on the bullet end while applying force to the lever to open it.

[Tom308]

If the rifle is complete, buy it. You can tinker with when you have nothing better to do. You can find take down instructions on the internet. I've run into the stuck cartridge problem before. I just tapped the bullet into the case and filled the barrel with a good oil. I gave it a long time to kill the powder and primer then knocked it out. Recently, a friend had a stuck cartridge in a 760 Remington. On that one, I removed the magazine and used a screwdriver to GENTLY pry the bolt back. The bolt opened with light finger pressure. I don't recommend a lot of prying on the rifle. Don't do anything just because it worked for someone else. You should first look up directions on that model rifle and study them. After that, make your own decisions. Try not to use too much force on anything.
Good luck
Tom

[pressonregardless]

Thanks Nick & Tom.

Tom, I agree I'm going for it.

The other day when the fellow handed me the rifle I started to check to see if it was loaded by attempting to open the lever. It moved about 1/2 way, but it stopped solid. The top bolt never budged, nor did I see movement in the breach locking bolt. I'd never seen that before so I was a little stumped as to what to do. I don't like messing around with a firearm that can't determine its status. I checked the magazine, and there were no cartridges to be seen there, but still, who knows.

The more I think about it my bet is that this fellow may have kept a round chambered, and its in there stuck now.

[Trailblazer]

If the breech blocking bolt doesn't move you can use a brass of other soft metal drift and tap on the top of it. An oversize cartridge wedged in the chamber can really tighten up the locking bolt and make the lever seem impossible to move. If you can tap the locking bolt down and it still won't open, then you can use the dowel or cleaning rod down the barrel to tap on whatever is in there.

I would buy it if the price reflects the inoperative condition because I could have it apart in about 10 minutes if I had it in my hands. I doubt if there is anything seriously wrong with it.

[dragonrider]

Don't know about Winchester's but on a Marlin the loading gate screw can loosen up and lock up the action.

[Char-Gar]

Do not buy a non-functioning rifles... UNLESS

1. You know what the problem is and how to fix it.
2. Can buy it for the price of a parts guns ( no more than 50% of the value of a functioning rifle) .
3. Or, you just like to gamble and feel you are lucky.

I can think of several reasons why a "tied up" lever gun could have serious deal breaking issue, not the least of which is a swelled bolt or lugs from a bad overloaded round.

[Rico1950]

+1 on what Chargar said. Overloaded round is a real possibility.