Another question on fillers

[TCFAN]

The resent post about the ringed chamber using a wad or filler brings up a question or 2.
I have been playing with a 30-30 for a year or two. Mostly low velocity with both plain base and gas check boolits.

I keep all my targets both good and bad . In looking over the targets it appears that the loads that use a filler always seen to shoot the smallest groups. Now by filler I mean quilt polyester batting.I have lots of this since we have a home based long arm quilting buisness.

Now I may be doing something wrong. Most all of the loads I have been using are with fast pistol or shotgun powders.

My question is there a list of powders that should not be used with a filler in a 30-30 size case? The powders that I have been using with 1gr. of this poly quilt batting is 4756, 4759, 7625, unique, 2400, herco.

Also is there a place where you would stop using a filler. Maybe such as when your powder volume of a slower powder say gets up to half way or more in the case.

Thanks for any help or suggestions..................Terry

[StarMetal]

The resent post about the ringed chamber using a wad or filler brings up a question or 2.
I have been playing with a 30-30 for a year or two. Mostly low velocity with both plain base and gas check boolits.

I keep all my targets both good and bad . In looking over the targets it appears that the loads that use a filler always seen to shoot the smallest groups. Now by filler I mean quilt polyester batting.I have lots of this since we have a home based long arm quilting buisness.

Now I may be doing something wrong. Most all of the loads I have been using are with fast pistol or shotgun powders.

My question is there a list of powders that should not be used with a filler in a 30-30 size case? The powders that I have been using with 1gr. of this poly quilt batting is 4756, 4759, 7625, unique, 2400, herco.

Also is there a place where you would stop using a filler. Maybe such as when your powder volume of a slower powder say gets up to half way or more in the case.

Thanks for any help or suggestions..................Terry

A filler seems to make the powder burn more efficiently. It does raise the pressure some over no filler for the same powder charge. Larry Gibson has a very good Oehler chronograph that gives excellent data and I believe he stated the filler loads seem to have a lower Standard Deviation. Help me out here some Larry.

I would say you don't have to use a filler with the real slow burning powders. Now a 30-30 doesn't hold a lot of powder, but some folks use just about full case loads of 4350 with good results and I'd say with that you don't need a filler. See where I'm going with this? Now in larger cases you can have more room for slower burning powders and a filler. I also believe a filler tends to keep some heat off the base of the bullet. Some feel it even help seal against gases. I have noticed that with a filler I have a cleaner bore.

Hope that answers your question.

[35remington]

My test for the usefulness of a filler is pretty simple.

Try chronographing with powder near primer and powder near bullet. If substantial velocity variations exist, a filler will probably be beneficial.

For example, I was shooting loads using H4895 that were used under Oldfeller's 130 grain 7mm "Soupcan" bullet in my 7-30 Waters levergun that varied in velocity 200 fps depending upon positioning location. Even minor variations in position from powder near primer to powder horizontal produced high extreme spreads. The low pressures and partial case fill of cast bullet loads help magnify the effect

Yes, filler helped.

I am one of those guys that has noticed reduced gascutting with even very light, insubstantial dacron filler as compared to a unfillered load, especially with plainbase bullets.

Fillers like Grex or granulated plastic eliminate gascutting completely.

[largom]

My results with fillers [dacron] are the same as Larry Gibsons in regards to lower SD's and ES's. I have also achieved better accuracy. If my charge fills less than 3/4's of the case I test with and without a filler. I also weigh my filler which most do not do, but then I also weigh everything, charge, boolit, case, and filler.

Larry

[TCFAN]

Thanks guys for your replies.

Starmetal,I see what you are saying about full case of powder. That is pretty much what i have been doing.

35remington,I only have used my chronograph when working up hunting loads.I will try your method for these lite loads and see how they do with and without a filler.

largom,when you say that you are using dacron is that the same as the polyester batting that I am using?I have asked for dracon in quilt shops and nobody knows what it is.
Also what weight is your dacron in a 30-30 case.

I guess I have asked a silly question but I was concered that a filler with a fast burning powder might not be the right thing to do. Just don't want to ring a chamber.

Thanks again.......Terry

[largom]

The filler I am using comes from Walmart. I asked the lady for Dacron filler and this is what she gave me. Probably the same polyester filler you have.

I am loading 20 - 21 gr. IMR 4198 with 1/2 gr. filler under the NOE 311-165 boolit which weighs 169 gr. with my alloy. Accuracy at 50 yds. is 5/8 in. group for 5 shots.

Larry

[TCFAN]

The filler I am using comes from Walmart. I asked the lady for Dacron filler and this is what she gave me. Probably the same polyester filler you have.

I am loading 20 - 21 gr. IMR 4198 with 1/2 gr. filler under the NOE 311-165 boolit which weighs 169 gr. with my alloy. Accuracy at 50 yds. is 5/8 in. group for 5 shots.

Larry

Thanks Larry
I have not tried 4198 so I will give it a try. I have the Ranch Dog 311-165 but it will not load in my 336 because the nose is to fat. It does works good in the Encore 30-30 barrel.

If you got your batting from Wal-Mart then it is the same as I am using. We have a lot of customers that want to provide their on batting for their quilts so they don't have to pay our price. A lot of it comes from wal-mart.

Our batting comes on a roll that is 96 inches wide and about 90 feet long. On every quilt there is left over batting that is thrown away so you might say I have a life time supply..................Terry

[geargnasher]

Dacron is the trade name for polyester fiberfill like is used for batting in blankets, stuffed toys, some pillows, et cetera.

I've use it with good to excellent results in all kinds of cartridges, but in the .30-30 I prefer a light charge of medium-burning rifle powder with cast for most plinking purposes and the case is usually 2/3 full at least.

I keep hearing and it makes sense that "ringing" is caused mainly by putting an actual wad disk over the powder and allowing an air space between the boolit and powder which can cause a pressure spike after ignition. Perhaps someone has conclusively tested this and can ring in here.

Gear