Remington 700 Classic in 221 Fireball!!!

[Charlie Sometimes]

I went and did it yesterday! :groner:
I traded my Ruger 77/22 All Weather in 22 Hornet for the above rifle! :veryconfu

The Ruger shot REALLY GREAT, but I got tired of messing with the clips, and the limited range of bullets/boolits that I could feed it because of those.

I kept my scope, and got a partial box of ammo and a box of empty brass with it. Since I already have the die set, etc., I'm ready to go for a few rounds. :-D

Got to bore sight it today, then fire off a few for refining the zero! This is a real nice rifle, and ought to be a real shooter. :) I had a XP-100 years ago that was deadly on crows at 200 yd. IIRC, back then I used IMR 4227 in the reloads, and 55 gr Sierra BT's.

I did some comparisons rifle to rifle and cartridge to cartridge- same rate of twist (1 in 14); fired empties from both rifles measured @ 1.401" !!!! :shock:
Case head is slightly larger on the 221, and case capacity is obviously greater.
Balistics from the Hodgdon Powder web site show a wider range of acceptable powders for it, and a velocity gain from 100 to 600 FPS with the same bullet ranges. Some powders even show lower pressures for the 221- I think I am going to be a happy camper if this thing will shoot anywhere close to the way my Hornet did! [smilie=w:

I'm gonna put some 225415's and 225438's through it later this week, or next (I hope). 8-)

Next will be to accumulate some 221 Fireball brass- I will be cleaning up the Hornet stuff and getting it ready to trade/sell, I think. [smilie=f:

Stay tuned for more developments! [smilie=s:

[j20owner]

Charlie, you suck. I would love to have a 700 Classic in .221!! I hope you enjoy it!!

[Matt_G]

Nice Charlie. I have always loved the 700 Classics. Only own one though. :groner:
I have the 2001 Classic in 7mm-08.
I hope you like yours as much as I do mine!

[Charlie Sometimes]

I had 17 rounds to shoot in it today. After bore sighting- it took 3 rounds to get it on target (I'm getting old and it was windy). :oops:
Still needs fine tuned, but I got it shooting 1/2 inch, 3 shot groups at 75 yd. with 50 gr. Remington Accutip-V Boat Tails, when I could hold steady. :smile:
Out of ammo now- gonna load some Nosler 40 gr. BTBT this week, along with some Hornady 55 gr. FMJ's, and then some real BOOLITS! [smilie=p:
I hope the 30 case I have last long enough until I can get some more! :bigsmyl2:

Yea, I suck! :razz: :lol:
When was the 700 Classic 221 Fireball made? :coffee:

[BCall]

Made in 2002 I believe. Nice gun, always wanted one, but was never willing to give up a Hornet to do it. Sounds like you got a good deal though. Billy

[Charlie Sometimes]

Something else- I use Lee case trimmers and noticed that the pilots on both the 221 Fireball and 22 Hornet sets are marked 22H! Same trim length, different shell holders!

I don't think this one has been shot much- not a lot of wear markings on the bolt.
That won't last long, though! :grin:

[msp2640]

Charlie - Nice rifle - I scored a 220 Swift Classic a few years back. I'm a fan of the somewhat off beat/ less popular stuff. I saw an article on the Classic when the 221 came out and it definitely caught my attention. At the rate I'm putting 22 centerfire stuff down range, I just couldn't justify another. I picked up a sweet little Walther 22 Hornet bolt gun about 3 years ago, still haven't fired a round thru it yet. Best of luck with the Classic - Keep me in mind, if you part with your Hornet stuff :D- Bill L

[Matt_G]

Charlie, BCall was dead on with the year for that Fireball. 2002.
Here's a list someone else posted out on the Remington Societies forum with all the Classics and their Model # and year of manufacture.

Begin copy and paste:

From 1978 through 1985, Remington offered a number of standard calibers in the 700 Classic.

In 1981, they began their limited edition series.

1978-1985 22-250 Remington
1978-1985 .243 Win.
1978-1985 6mm Remington
1978-1985 7mm Remington Mag.
1978-1985 .270 Win.
1978-1985 .30-06 Springfield

Year Model Caliber
--------------------------------------------------------------
1981 5758 7x57mm Mauser
1982 5850 .257 Roberts (24" barrel)
1983 5846 .300 H&H
1984 5754 .250 Savage
1985 5756 .350 Remington Mag.
1986 5898 .264 Win. Mag.
1987 5899 .338 Win. Mag.
1988 5901 .35 Whelen
1989 5903 .300 Wby. Mag.
1990 5907 .25-06 Remington
1991 5909 7mm Weatherby
1992 5913 .220 Swift
1993 5852 .222 Remington
1994 5759 6.5x55mm Swedish
1995 5875 .300 Win. Mag.
1996 5877 .375 H&H Mag.
1997 5873 .280 Remington
1998 5876 8mm Remington Mag. (with sights)
1999 5871 .17 Remington
2000 6344 .223 Remington
2001 6342 7mm-08 Remington
2002 6348 .221 Remington Fireball
2003 5869 .300 Savage
2004 6352 8mm Mauser
2005 6310 .308 Winchester

[BCall]

I believe the 1993 classic was a 222 Rem Mag, though, not the standard 222. i have a friend that has one and it one of the most accurate sporters I've ever shot. Billy

[Matt_G]

Your right BCall.
I edited the post to correct that.

Edit
Now I've changed it back again based on post #24.

[DLCTEX]

Charlie, I'm jealous. I've had the brass and dies for years now and need the gun. I have been down the short rifle/pistol road and don't want to go there again. I may have to shorten a barrel for my Savage, but a 223 barrel would be too fast a twist. A nice one like yours is out of my price range.

[doubs43]

Matt, thanks for the rundown of years/cartridges. I have the 1993 & 1994 Classics in .222 Remington and 6.5x55 Swede respectively. I bought both new.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Great list- I've never kept track, and didn't know they did one in 221 until I saw this rifle.
Remington is making it in other Varmint version now, or lately, as I have seen them listed on other retail sites (Bud's Gun Shop, etc.) There is a Remington International version with laminated stock in 221 FB that looks really good!

PM to DLCTEX!

[j20owner]

The recently introduced .17 Fireball is also just a .221 Fireball necked to .17 caliber.

I first learned about the Classics in 2004 with an article about the 8mm Mauser model of that year. Picked up the 2005 .308 win model the next fall.

[BarryinIN]

Neat rifle. Neat cartridge.

I have an XP-100 and a Remington 600 rebarreled to .221 Fireball.
The XP-100 is OK, but that rifle is pretty nifty. A better walking around varmint gun would be hard to find.

I had never shot cast in either until last year. I tried one load in the rifle, it liked it OK, and I haven't tried anything since. That was the Lyman 225415 and AA 2015 (I don't recall the charge weight now).

[Charlie Sometimes]

There is another one on GB right now- Buy Now for over $865!

Wow, I got a great deal, if they can ever get that out of one!

Twist rate is 1 in 14, same as my Ruger was, but can be pushed some faster.
This one should shoot cast boolits just fine- I have higher expectations for this rifle than I did with the Ruger!

What is the rate of twist in the XP-100?

[BarryinIN]

I think it's 1-14.
Pretty sure.

[Matt_G]

Matt, thanks for the rundown of years/cartridges. I have the 1993 & 1994 Classics in .222 Remington and 6.5x55 Swede respectively. I bought both new.

doubs43:
Can you verify that the 1993 Classic is indeed a 222 Remington Magnum, not a standard 222 Remington?
I keep finding conflicting info on that one...

[Geraldo]

Charlie - Nice rifle - I scored a 220 Swift Classic a few years back.

The Classic in .220 Swift is one of the few rifles I really regret trading. [smilie=b: It shot as well as a heavier barreled 700VS I had in the same caliber.

Charlie, pictures would really drive the stake through the heart of those of us who got rid of 700 Classics :) Sounds like a really nice rifle.

[doubs43]

doubs43:
Can you verify that the 1993 Classic is indeed a 222 Remington Magnum, not a standard 222 Remington?
I keep finding conflicting info on that one...

Matt, I can verify that mine is a standard .222 Remington. I received it from National Shooting Supplies, Inc. on 29 March, 1993. Serial number is C67766xx.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'll take some picture tomorrow!

Did some reading on the caliber development today- by accident.
It appears that, back in '63, they were trying to develop a long range handgun round and pistol based on the 600 action. They discovered they didn't need the longer case of the 222 Rem- wasted powder in the short barrel, so they shortened it to what is now the 221 Fireball.
Pressure was designed higher in this round than the 222 Rem, and has nearly the same trajectory as the 222 & 223 out to 300 yards. Says good for high volume varmint hunting, too. (My intended use!)
The 17 Fireball is the "old" 17 Mach IV, and the 300 Whisper and several others "almost standard" calibers are based on it now. It went deeper, but that is the jist of it- good reading. I was searching for cartridge trim length, and got more than I bargained for. FYI- see the wikipedia references 221 Fireball, and XP-100.

[pietro]

[Can you verify that the 1993 Classic is indeed a 222 Remington Magnum, not a standard 222 Remington? I keep finding conflicting info on that one]

There's no reason to disbelieve the maker.

According to Remington, in the history secon of their website, the .222 Rem Mag was 1993 Classic chambering.

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/bolt-action/model-700.aspx

Caliber/Gauge‡:
17 Rem (1971 – Present, 1999 Classic)
204 Ruger (2004 – Present)
220 Swift (1992 – Present, 1992 Classic)
221 Fireball (2002 Classic, 2002 – Present standard offering)
222 Rem (1962 – Present)
222 Rem Mag (1962 – 1968, 1993 Classic)
223 Rem (1967 – Present, 2000 Classic)
22-250 Rem (1965 – Present)
243 Win (1962 – Present)
6mm Rem (1962 – Present)
25-06 (1970 – Present, 1990 Classic)
250 Savage (1984 Classic)
257 Roberts (1991 – 1995, 1982 Classic)
6.5x55 Swedish (1994 Classic)
6.5mm Rem Mag (1969 – 1973)
260 Rem (1997 – Present)
264 Win Mag (1962 – 1977, 1986 Classic)
270 Win (1962 – Present)
270 WSM (2005)
280 Rem (1962 – 1967, 1991 – Present; 1997 Classic)
7mm Express Rem (1977 -1983)
7mm-08 Rem (1979 – Present, 2001 Classic)
7mm Rem Mag (1962 – Present)
7mm STW (1997 – 2002; 2003 - Present Custom Shop only)
7mm Wby Mag (1991 – 1995, 1991 Classic)
7x57 Mauser (1989 – 1995, 1981 Classic)
7mm Rem Short Action Ultra Mag (2003 – Present)
7mm Rem Ultra Mag (2000 – Present)
30-06 Sprg (1962 – Present)
300 Savage (1991 – 1993, 2003 Classic)
308 Win (1962 – Present, 2005 Classic)
300 WSM (2005)
300 Win Mag (1965 – Present, 1995 Classic)
300 Wby Mag (1989 Classic, 1990 - 2000 standard offering, 2002 – Present Custom Shop only)
300 H&H Mag – 1983 Classic
300 Rem Short Action Ultra Mag (2003 – Present)
300 Rem Ultra Mag (1999 – Present)
8mm Rem Mag (1977 – 1984, 1986 – Present Custom Shop only, 1998 Classic)
8mm Mauser (2004 Classic)
338 Win Mag (1987 Classic, 1988 Custom Shop, 1989 – 2002 standard offering, 2003 Custom Shop only)
338 Rem Ultra Mag (2000 – Present)
35 Whelen (1988 – 2003, 2005; 1988 Classic; 2004 - Custom Shop)
350 Rem Mag (1969 – 1973,1985 – 1986, 1985 Classic)
375 H&H Mag(1962 – 1970 standard offering, 1971 – Present Custom Shop only, 1996 Classic)
375 Rem Ultra Mag (2001 – Present)
416 Rem Mag (1989 – Present Custom Shop only)
458 Win Mag (1962 – 1970 standard offering, 1971 – Present Custom Shop only)

.

[Matt_G]

That's why I asked doubs43 pietro. I saw that web page, so when BCall said he thought his friends was a 222 Rem Mag I figured he was right and that's why I changed my list.
However I'm sure that doubs43 knows what ammo his gun takes and what is stamped on the barrel. After all he does have it in his hands. Hmmm, I'm thinking an e-mail to Remington is in order here.

[doubs43]

Perhaps the instruction manual packet with the factory label attached will help. I've blocked the last two digits of the serial number. Note the order number. It matches the number given by Remington for 1993. If you'd like to see the barrel and receiver markings, I can take pictures of those tomorrow. I'll have to dig the rifle out of the safe.

pietro, this wouldn't be the first time that information on a web site was incorrect. As an FFL holder in 1993, I still retain a copy of my records which allowed me to be very specific about when and from whom I bought my .222 Remington Classic rifle.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/doubs43/Misc/RemClassic222Rem.jpg

[Matt_G]

That's about as definitive as it gets doubs43.
Thank you for posting that picture and for your patience. :drinks:
I'm going to edit my list earlier in this thread.

I will e-mail Remington this morning.
I'm willing to bet who ever typed up that web page just put the info for the 1993 Classic on the wrong line. A typo...

[doubs43]

Matt, I emailed Remington last night and they have already responded that they'll have the error corrected shortly.

I agree that it was simply a typo on the part of whoever entered the information.

[Charlie Sometimes]

And to think that Remington is making changes- just because I traded rifles! :lol:

Pictures after while.

[Matt_G]

Looking forward to seeing those pictures Charlie. :)

[Charlie Sometimes]

Finally- I got pictures!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/For%20Sale%20Items/100_4148.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/For%20Sale%20Items/100_4153.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/For%20Sale%20Items/100_4147.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/For%20Sale%20Items/100_4149.jpg

What I traded for it (same scope, sling, and bipod)-

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/For%20Sale%20Items/Ruger22Hornet2.jpg

[doubs43]

Charlie, that's a very nice looking Classic. I expect it'll shoot as good as it looks too.

[Four Fingers of Death]

There is a NIB one down the local gunshop on consingment. It has a big new Leupold high power Variable scope and 1000 new cases. The guy obviously planned to make a lifetime's work out of it. He has big dollars on it and won't split it up.

By the time you sold off the excess cases (they are worth a fortune here) and took into account the price of the scope, it is not toooooooooooooooooooooooo bad, but I just bought a 223 Tikka with a 1 in 8" twist (and I have a BRNO Fox Hornet), so I will pass on it. It is sure one pretty rifle though. With a smaller variable scope it would be a nice walkabout gun.

Just spotted the pics, that rifle sure has classic lines!

[Matt_G]

Very nice looking rifle Charlie. If it shoots as good as it looks, you have a real winner there!

I was just browsing the online catalog of an auction that will be held on May 1 not 20 miles from me. (Longmont, Colorado)
There are two 700 Classics listed in it. Both are listed as new in box.
Unfortunately, they are both in calibers that I really don't need nor want. :(

One is the 1983 Classic in .300 H&H.
The other is the 1989 Classic in .300 Weatherby.

[pietro]

Yep, I guess there's a LOT of changes going on at Remington - They're even getting back into the handgun business, and with a 1911 at that !

http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/image_archive/2019011.jpg

The 2010 Remington 1911 R1

.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Pretty soon quality 1911's will be dime a dozen- we should all hope! :D

It's about time another major manufacturer got with the program and gives the shooting public what they want. Ruger has been doing it for quite a while, and other companies have picked up on the demands, responded, and made good work of a lot of possibilities. Remington has a window open right now- lots of new products showing up on the market.

I would have NO USE for those calibers in other Classic rifles either.
I like big bore stuff, but not in THAT way! :lol:
The classic is just that- CLASSIC! :grin:
Those lines will always catch my eye, and work very well for my shooting needs, too.
I'm comfortable, and HAPPY! :bigsmyl2:

Cases here (the States) seem to be going new for around $40 per hundred. :sad:
New 22 Hornets were $22 per hundred when I bought all of mine.
Doubling my expense now, but getting performance up to and including the 222 Remington! :grin:

Might look into making them from 223 Rem, eventually. :wink:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Didn't find any 221 Fireball cases at today's gun show- found another set of CH dies for it though!
This makes me THREE sets! :groner:

Lots of 223 empties, though- probably should have bought some of those.

I'll have to decide which die set I like best and keep one. :rolleyes:

[BarryinIN]

Somehow, I've always been cursed or something when it came to finding .221 brass.
When I got the XP-100, I was still in high school and didn't have any money to buy any.
When I built up that Rem 600 rifle in .221, the brass was scarce because Remington had dropped the caliber in the XP around that time and must have felt little need to make much of it.
When I got a .17 Mach IV barrel for my Contender, I couldn't find any 221 brass at all. Suppliers said people had bought it up to make 300 Whisper, which had just starting to be noticed about that time. I eventually did get some then, but it took a couple months or more.

I don't think I've boughtt more than 250 cases at one time. Most of mine has come from scrounging 20 or 50 cases here and there. The good thing is that it lasts a long time, and I never needed much at any one time either.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I hear ya!
They make it again, apparently, but it's high.
The guy who had the die set (which I think neck sizes :grin:), said he made all of his 221 into 17 Mach IV (17 Fireball)!
My luck runs like yours- I will get them here and there, if that is what it takes!

[doubs43]

I've just now checked three sellers - Graf & Sons, Mid-South and Midway - for 221 brass and all three have it in stock. 100 cases will run between $40 & $47. Mid-South is the cheapest.

[miestro_jerry]

I have shot the 221 Fire Ball in the XP100 and the T/C Contender, great catridge, I would love to havea Rem 700 in 221 Fire Ball.

You are lucky, my Rem 700 Classic is in 300 RUM because I need a long range Elk gun, except my vision is getting a little fuzzy with age.

Jerry

[Matt_G]

I would love to havea Rem 700 in 221 Fire Ball.

Here ya go Jerry. :mrgreen:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=166191835

Me, an enabler? Whatever do you mean... :lol: