NOE 360180 & H-110 & Marlin 1894 .357 Mag Help

[JesterGrin_1]

Has anyone used this BOOLIT in there Marlin 1894 in .357 Mag with either W-296 or H110 and if so how did it do? I have the RNFP GC.

I have the NOE group buy mould and thought I would do some testing and maybe take a Hog or Deer with it. Range to about 125 Yards. So I am not looking for a plinker load lol.

Thanks for any Help. :lovebooli

[jr545]

Mornin' Jester,

I can't answer the 110/296 powder question but I can offer this.
I've been playing with that bullet in my 1894 using the hollow point and 2400.
Tightest group so far has been at 12.3 which shot just under an inch(5 shots touching) at 50yds. I had some 12.5's loaded but the wind came up and kinda fouled the day. Maybe this morning I'll load another hand ful of 12.5's and move them out to 100 to check but I suspect this will be the load I settle on.
Seems the faster I push it, the better it groups and this boolit style feeds wonderfully in my rifle.

[JesterGrin_1]

Thank You for the info Jr.

With all of the NOE 360180 that were in the group buy I thought for sure others would have some good info with the H-110 or W-296 but maybe it is just too early in the year for load work.

[Blammer]

11 or 12 of w296 worked for me.

I got much better accuracy and velocity with Lilgun.

[excess650]

11 or 12 of w296 worked for me.

I got much better accuracy and velocity with Lilgun.

I seem to recall Winchester recommending 90% or higher load density for WW296. 11 or 12gr of 296 under a 180 doesn't seem like nearly enough.

I shoot the Saeco #354 185gr GC in my Marlin 1894C(s) and Browning Lowall over H110. I use Federal 205s because I had them, but 200s should work just as well. I'm also using Starline cases, but haven't compared capacity to WW, Federal or Remingtons, so won't comment on that.

I haven't looked at the NOE 360180 since the Saeco shoots SOOOOO well. I size and GC in a .360" die. I have shot sub 1-1/2" 5 shots at 100 yards with a receiver sight with these loads, so they do work. I would suggest starting at 15gr H110 and working UP 1/2gr at a time. Monitor the accuracy and check the cases and primers. The Marlins tend to crater the primers due to a sloppy firing pin fit, so the F205 primers with their thicker cups aren't a bad idea.

[JesterGrin_1]

That looks a little Hot from what I found. But I am open to thoughts? It shows a Max of 13.5Gr of H-110 but I know this is for a jacket Hornady 180Gr HP/XTP.

So can one really add that much more powder for Cast?

Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 4/24/2010
data.hodgdon.com 357 Magnum
Load Type: Pistol Powder: H110
BW: 180

Cartridge Information
Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 10"
Twist: 1:18.75" Trim Length: 1.285"
Primer: WINCHESTER SPM

357 Magnum
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maximum Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
180 GR. NOS PART H110 .357" 1.575" 13.0 1352 36,800 CUP 13.5 1396 39,100 CUP

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

[excess650]

The folks printing the manuals have backed off on powder charges over the years. Take a look at some of the older Speer manuals in particular, and you'll see what I mean.

Speer #10 and #11
357 rifle "these loads do not exceed 46,000cup, the industry established maximum for the 357".

Marlin rifle 18-1/2" Speer cases CCI 550 primers .358" Speer 180gr (35Rem bullet)
16.0 WW296 1679fps
15.6 H110 1689fps

.357" 158gr pistol bullets

17.5gr H110 1866fps
17.3gr WW296 1862fps

Speer #13
"Rifle loads for the 357 Magnum are held to he normal industry pressure of 35,000psi".

.357" 158gr pistol bullets
15.5gr H110 1648fps
14.7gr WW296 1564fps

no listing of the .358" rifle bullet

Speer #11 and #13 BOTH list the 180gr .357" Silhouette bullet in Contender data

15.9gr WW296 1573fps 10" barrel
16.1gr H110 1528fps 10" barrel

manual 13 lists the above data tested on copper crusher equipment with a 45,000cup limit and intended for single shot pistols and heavy frame revolvers.....hmmmm smells like BS to me.

I bought my first 1894C in 1981 or so, which is 2 years after the printing of Speer Manual #10. I shot quite a few 158gr JHPs over 17.5gr WW296 with absolutely no problems. That is 2.8gr OVER the listed maximum in the #13 manual. I DID have a 44mag 1894 that didn't like the 24gr WW296/240gr data. It would kick the lever loose and shot erratically with that load. Reduced to 22gr it shot cloverleafs at 50 yards. I do recommend starting low and working up, yada, yada, yada....powder lot variations, primer differences, case capacities, temperature....ad nauseum.

[30hrrtt]

What's the max listing for 2400 in both the 158 and the 180 in the Speer #10 or 11 manual?

[excess650]

What's the max listing for 2400 in both the 158 and the 180 in the Speer #10 or 11 manual?

Manual #10

158gr .357" pistol bullets CCI 550 primer Speer case 15.9gr 2400 1824fps

180gr .358" rifle bullet 13.6gr 2400 1543fps

These loads from a Marlin 1894C.

I've not shot a lot of 2400 in 357 rifle loads, but it seems to me that 14.5gr was pretty warm waaaaay back when I was shooting 17.5gr WW296 under 158gr JHPs.

Manual #13 lists 14.8gr with the 158gr for 1628fps.

Back then 2400 was made by Hercules, but now is Alliant. I've heard of pretty serious lot to lot variations in Alliant's powders, so I would be carefull.

[JesterGrin_1]

So as it looks now the low end of H-110 with the 360180 would be 13.OGr and work up to 16.OGr. Depending on how accurate a load is?

[excess650]

So as it looks now the low end of H-110 with the 360180 would be 13.OGr and work up to 16.OGr. Depending on how accurate a load is?

My bullets weigh 185gr and I don't stop at 16gr. Your gun may be different, and more than likely your bullet alloy and lube will be different. I'm using water dropped alloy that measures 15bhn+ and LBT Blue sized in a .360" die. I have no problems with short case life, or leading. I've shot the guns until they were too hot to handle, let them cool, and went back to shooting.

Try working up 1/2gr at a time and see where the accuracy comes in and how your gun handles the pressure. There are too many variables to say "this is THE load". My NEW 1894C with conventional rifling has a tighter chamber than my old microgroove 1894C(s). Your combination of cases, primers, and lot of powder will all play into your results. I DO recommend small rifle primers, or small rifle magnum primers over pistol primers in hot loads. Federal 205 primers are supposed to be the same as Federal 200 except for the 205s having thicker cups.

I have shot heavier than my "working loads", but accuracy didn't improve, so I backed off a bit and called it good. I fully expect to have to sneak up on the load again when switching to the new 8# jug.

[mack1]

what kind of velocity could be expected from 18-20" barrel with this boolit.

[Fire_stick]

what kind of velocity could be expected from 18-20" barrel with this boolit.

I got 1725 fps with 15.2 gr. LilGun, 180ish gr. NOE 360-180RF using my Rossi Model 92 with 20" ss barrel. 5 shots at 25 yards w/ iron sights was just under 5/8".

[BABore]

If you can use a chronograph with your loads, H110/296 can be worked up easily by watching the velocity and extreme spread. Start at book min and work up in your normal increments of 0.25 to 0.50 grains. I like to shoot a minimum of 5 shots at each increment and typically set the screens at 15-20 ft to minimize the muzzle blast from these powders. At the start load you will usually notice a high ES. As you increase charge weight you will see a nice incremental increase in velocity and the ES will be coming down steadily. As you approach max, you will see less of a velocity increase and ES get real low. Just above max, velocity will barely increase and may actually drop some. ES starts to climb as well. This comes about just about when you have to really compress the charge. At the same time I am keeping a close eye on primer condition and extraction. I typically use CCI 550's and cases that have been fired and reloaded a couple times. New brass can give some sticky extraction well before max.

I've used H110/296 for many years in the 357, 41, 44, 45 Colt, and 480 Ruger. The senario described above has been exactly the same for all of them. When I see the velocity drop and ES climb, I back off about 0.50 to 1.00 grains. Then I load sets starting about 1.00 grains below this and up to my max and shoot for groups and accuracy. 9 times out of 10, best accuracy is right at max with these powders.

[JesterGrin_1]

It looks like one of these days I will have to look into a chronograph.

Thank You for the info.