Just cast my first batch of bullets today, but I'm getting keyholes...

[davestarbuck]

Hey all!!!

Just got from the range after shooting my self cast boolits!!!. Function was fine, all went bang, but many keyholed from 2 different guns, a Glock 19 with Lone Wolf barrel, and a Ruger P-95.

I used a Lee 6 cavity TL356-124-2R casting wheel weights and air cooling. I had no problems with the casting part at all once I got the mold up to temperature. The boolits dropped out at .358.

After tumble lubing with Alox and letting it dry under a fan, I loaded them up with 3.8 gr of Bullseye, 1.12" OAL, and ran them through a Lee Factory Crimp Die. This is exactly the same procedure I used to load some Missouri Bullets 115 gr LRN, which I've had fabulous results with.

After I got back from the range I pulled apart one round each of the home cast bullet and the MO Bullet round to check if the FCD had change the diameter of the boolit. It had not, the LEE boolit still measured at .358 and the MO bullet was still .356.

The only difference I can see between the 2 loads is that the MO bullet is .356 and is a BHN of 18. My home cast boolit is .358 and is much softer (by fingernail scratch test).

From what I've read, keyholing is mostly cause by undersized boolits, But mine are not..... I'm going to size some to .356 and try again... I wonder if I'm doing something else wrong that I'm not seeing..

Any adivice?

Thanks!!!

Dave

Oh btw, I found casting to be a lot of fun!!!!

[HangFireW8]

Might be too soft for the pressure & velocity, might be not enough velocity to stabilize the boolit, which is a little longer than your 115RN.

-HF

[HeavyMetal]

Two possibles:
Boolit is being sized when seated, AKA boolit is softer than brass and case mouth is sizing bolit when the boolit is pressed home in the case mouth.

OR:

Lee FCD dis is a tad to small and is sizing the boolit in the case as the crimp is applied AKA the carbide sizing ring is doing a second sizing of the case which is also sizing down the boolit in the case.

Cures: Measure the expander plug in the expander die and make sure it is no smaller than .002 to .003 of the cast boolit diameter you wish to use.

If that is correct then stop using the Lee FCD die and seat and crimp with another system. Shoot a 50 round batch and see if the problem has gone away.

If it has replace or repair the FCD die!

[davestarbuck]

Thanks Heavy Metal, but I pulled a loaded round allready, the boolit was .358 before and after loading..

HangFireW8, good points, I might go ahead and load a little heaver, and maybe try a slower powder, I have Power Pistol and Ramshot Silhouette on hand. I'll try a larger charge of Bullseye first, after I try the boolits sized to .356..

I like a challenge!!! :Fire:

Dave

[wistlepig1]

Might be too soft for the pressure & velocity, might be not enough velocity to stabilize the boolit, which is a little longer than your 115RN.

-HF

I have a 2" 357 that I was having Keyholing when I shot my plinker 38 loads. I upped the velocity 100 fps and it went way. May not work in your gun but might be worth a try. good shooting!

[fredj338]

The 9mm can be the most difficult to get good results w/ using cast bullets. I have a BHP that would not shoot commercial cast 124grLRN. I switched to my own cast 124grLTC (clipon ww) & also changed form W231 to Unique. My groups were easily half the size. I suspect your alloy is a bit soft for the shallow rifling & quick pressure peak of BE. Try WSF or Unique or go to a harder alloy.

[Piedmont]

You are going fast enough to stabilize a bullet of that weight. Try cutting to 3.5 gr. of Bullseye and see how that shoots. Did you have leading? If that built up it might be a reason for the keyholing. I too suspect your bullets are a bit soft for the pressure. Cutting the load will give you a clue.

How long ago did you cast those? It takes about two weeks for them to be about as hard as they will get. If you cast them a day or two before shooting they will be substantially softer.

[jbremount]

Because of the current price of 9mm ammo, I just recently started using my cast bullets for the 9mm guns. First, from "my" experiences, using the soft WWT cast boolits is ok if you keep the velocity down. Second, like the previous poster said, did you have leading? Your bullet size of .358 is fine. I would not trust the LFC die to not resize that bullet. Currently, I using to use an .358 sized bulllet and staying under 1000 fps with no leading and no tumbling. Anyway, this is just my opinion, others may have better methods of getting more velocity out of air dropped home casts 9mm boolits.

[davestarbuck]

These leaded really bad, funny thing is that I shoot some of the commerically cast booltis and some fmj right after and they shot just fine with the leading still in the barrell.

I did cast them in the morning and shot them later that evening, so maybe I need to let them rest a bit? I'm going to cast some up and water drop them to compare.....

Thanks y'all, I know we are going to figure this out!!!!

Dave

[Newtire]

Hi Dave,

I just saw in your last post that you were goning to try water dropping...good idea if you ask me. I load a Lee .357 .002 over bore size and it shoots in everything it gets put into. I can't think of one of their moulds that can't be made to shoot in something or other that I shoot. Of course, I'm not shooting a 9mm. We do shoot these .359 heavy (190 grainers) in a Desert Eagle .357 mag. with polygonal rifling and no troubles so far. I made the guy another 1000 so I know he shot it that much so far in that Desert Eagle. They are also the very best boolit/bullet he has ever shot in his Marlin .357 rifle. Will be interested to see how you do.

[Colorado4wheel]

Water drop them. My leading went away with water dropping. Change one thing at a time but if harder bullets work in your gun and your soft ones don't then I would at least try and make them harder.

[chris in va]

I've had horrible keyholing and accuracy issues with cast 9mm. Tried several designs and recipes with limited success.

I did find that water dropping the TC boolits along with backing off the powder charge made the tumbling go away, but still not that accurate.

My fix? A fat (as dropped) 362 FN designed for 38 special, sized to .358. It shoots like a laser out of my HiPoint carbine. Won't chamber in my CZ 75, but working on that.

[Colorado4wheel]

He has 18 bhn bullets that work. My water dropped bullets are 18 bhn.

[243winxb]

The only difference I can see between the 2 loads is that the MO bullet is .356 and is a BHN of 18. You need a harder bullet at the correct diameter just like the store bought ones.

[smlekid]

I had the exact same problem with my 9mm using the 124 tctl lee mould for me the problem was a to soft bullet I recast mine and added lino and the problem went away I'm sizing to 357 in a 356 barrel
I took one of my harder boolits and one softer and put them nose to nose in a vice and squeezed them together not the most scientific method for judging hardness but it was quite obvious how much difference there was in the deformation maybe you could try that test with your 2 boollits

[davestarbuck]

Well I'm going to try several things to see if they work....

1)Air cooled sized to .356

2)Water dropped unsized

3) Water dropped sized to .356


I'll keep the current OAL and charge weight that works with the commercial cast boolits. I'm going to load 50 of each and test them out the next time I get to the range..

Thanks everyone for your help...

Dave

[davestarbuck]

Problem solved gents, the water dropped boolits worked just fine, both the as cast and the sized. Thanks for your help!!!!!

-Dave