Casting assistance needed

[gray wolf]

I said assistance because I am still hate to use the word help, but help is what I need.
This question comes up now and then but the answers don't always help me.
I have had this problem before and I can't remember what solved it.
what seems to be grit in my bullets, or inclusions. Like the bullet came in contact with sand but there is no sand visible just the inclusions, one time I could see a piece of crud stuck in the bullets.

This is a brass mold Mi Heck 200 grain 45 acp crammer H P. It has cast 1,500 bullets and has had the problem from day one. I have done 5 casting sessions with it and the results are always the same.
Before I cast I clean the mold with break cleaner, and then hot water and Dawn detergent with a clean tooth brush. The alloy is WW----WW/pure---WW/Lino/pure.
Not all at once I have tried 3 different mixes. Temp is about 675* and fill out is fine. But always I get these pock marks on only one side of the bullet
One side is a fine looking bullet and then the other side looks like hell.
Never on both sides only one.
The metal has been smelted two times and fluxed with wax, it seems to be clean.
The pot is a lee 10# bottom pour, I have cleaned the pot two times.
The pot is fluxed with wax with kitty litter on top, and no kitty litter on top. I use the lube that came with the mold for the sprue plate and pins.
Why only one side of the bullet? I can't say for sure that it is the same side each
time. I can't figure this one out. So I have to ask my casting brothers for help.

Frustrated

Sam

[MT Gianni]

Is it a sc mold or does it happen in all cavities? I would try getting hotter maybe as warm as 775F to see if things clean up.

[gray wolf]

It is a 2 Cav. mold and it happens with both holes.

[44fanatic]

Taking a break from casting...Looks similar to what I just had w/ my Lee 2 holers. Cleaned the vent lines with a jewlers screwdriver and the problem went away...finally some valid input.

[gray wolf]

I can try it but the vent lines on this mold are clean and many of them. Did it from day one.

[scrapcan]

Have you tried to clean the mould and then start over? Did you use any mould prep or get the lube in the cavity? Oil in a cavity can do similar things.

As Mt Gianni said, try to brign the temp up some more to see if it helps.

PS I will be getting th loaner mould in the mail in a few minutes (I hope)

[dragonrider]

Grey Wolf, Heat, 800 degrees. no wax, put 1/2" of sawdust on top of the melt. when it is smokin good throw a match on it and Let char completely before mixing thouroughly. One needs to be careful with sawdust because no matter how dry you think it is, IT AIN'T!!!! Do not mix it up until it is completely black. I have found that kitty litter breaks down into a fine clay like material and it gets stuck on the sides of your pot, repeated uses of sawdust will clean that up.

[44man]

I was not going to post because I never know what I am talking about according to a few but you need help.
It looks like trapped air that can't escape before the lead hardens from everything being too cold.
Your temp is just above the melting point of tin, run it up and get the mold preheated to at least 500*.

[montana_charlie]

But always I get these pock marks on only one side of the bullet
I use the lube that came with the mold for the sprue plate and pins.
I can't say for sure that it is the same side each time.
It stands to reason that you lube the mould (with the included lube) after you had cleaned it. That allows for the possibility of getting some of that lube in the cavity...perhaps after the mould is heated.

Try cleaning the mould and casting (for a short while) with no lubrication.
I would also increase the heat a little because the corners of your base and driving bands are not all that sharp.

When you cut a sprue, there is usually a teardrop-shaped smear on the bullet base where the cut occurred. You can used the directionality of that to determine which way the bullet sat in the mould.
From that, you should be able to figure out which side is being 'pocked'...and if it's the same side all of the time.

CM

[gray wolf]

Have you tried to clean the mould and then start over? Did you use any mould prep or get the lube in the cavity? Oil in a cavity can do similar things.
Very careful with the lube--I think it's Bull plate that he sent--kinda blueish green.
But sure some could have gotten in--but always just on one side ? I will be more careful.


Grey Wolf, Heat, 800 degrees. no wax, put 1/2" of sawdust on top of the melt. when it is smokin good throw a match on it and Let char completely before mixing thouroughly. One needs to be careful with sawdust because no matter how dry you think it is, IT AIN'T!!!! Do
not mix it up until it is completely black. I have found that kitty litter breaks down into a fine clay like material and it gets stuck on the sides of your pot, repeated uses of sawdust will clean that up.

Ok I will up the temp. and not use the kitty litter, I noticed after a while I had fine black dust in my pot. Look to be frome the kitty litter.



It looks like trapped air that can't escape before the lead hardens from everything being too cold.
Your temp is just above the melting point of tin, run it up and get the mold preheated to at least 500*.

Ok--yes I will crank up the heat.



It stands to reason that you lube the mould (with the included lube) after you had cleaned it. That allows for the possibility of getting some of that lube in the cavity...perhaps after the mould is heated.

I will try with no lube for a while


That is all good info. I will try all the sugjestions one at a time and see if I can nail it.
I suspect it may be Temp and the kitty litter.

[RP]

If all that fails try casting with diff mould it may be in the alloy? I have one of those moulds they have to be run hot to work good after preheating mine and running without lube until mould gets good and hot I lube the mould then.

[theperfessor]

I was getting that with some aluminum hammer head molds I made. I think it was coming from lead splashes that froze on side of mold and were then slightly remelted and combined with alloy as I filled up mold. A hotter mold and pouring to swirl in alloy instead of letting it go straight in and splash around cut down problem.

Don't know if this will help.

[Wayne Smith]

Sam, Bull Plate is quite mobile. You need a barely damp Q-tip, wipe top of mold and inside of sprue plate, then wipe off all you can. This is serious advice. DO NOT get any in the cavity. It is recommended that you do this with a boolit in the cavity. Your results are consistent with a little BullPlate in the mold.

[Blammer]

clean mould with degreaser or something, looks like you have some oil in it from somewhere

[.357]

looks like my lee mold after i got some lub in it. clean it up try casting without the lube.

[gray wolf]

What !! more is not better??
I was quite liberal with the bull plate and I thought I wiped most of it off.
I never put any in the Cav. of the mold. But if it migrates well then it may be the problem.
Next time I will be very careful and I think I will go with the saw dust and not the kitty litter.
I think you all have me on the right track and I thank you. I will re do my bullets as they don't measure up to what I like. But believe it or not we just got 3 inches of snow.
So it may be a few days before I can re cast.

Thank you all

Sam

[kbstenberg]

Sam when you put the lubricant on the mold were there bullets in the cavities?
If the cavities were empty when you closed the sprue plate, it mite drag some lube into the empty holes. just my 2 cents
Kevin

[pjh421]

I looked at those boolits and the first thing that jumped out at me was the shine. Your alloy and your mould are both too cool. The previous posters nailed it. If my boolits are not slightly frosty in appearance they go back in the pot with along with their sprues. If you can see well enough to chase the vent lines (I use one of those magnifiers that strap to my head) then you could do that but if you enlarge the vent lines too much where they originate at the cavities you will get flashing. Since you aren't getting boolits that look like they are dented, chasing the vent lines is in third place behind degreasing and more heat. Just get a can of brake parts cleaner and a stiff nylon brush. When you put the Bull Plate lube on, less is more. I've had it migrate up from the pins and get into the cavities because I put too much on. Then, it gassifies when the alloy enters the mould. This is what is giving you the rough surface. When you dip a Q-Tip into the Bull Plate lube, don't dunk the entire tip. Just the slightest amount ont the very end is enough. Roll this between your thumb and trigger finger to further distribute the oil in the Q-Tip. When you wipe the Q-Tip on the hot sprue cutter it will look like there isn't enough on there to do the job. That's plenty. If you apply it to the top of the blocks too, don't get too close to the cavity edges or, well, you know now what will happen. I agree withe the previous posters. They gave you good advice.

Paul

[Bulltipper]

It's the bullplate! that stuff is great but travels like a hippie. only use it if you have to on the pins and just a touch, like the guys said on the sprue cutter. you will love this mold when you get 'er throwin. Mihec molds are like any other in that they each have thier own personality and they DO TAKE THIER TIME BREAKING IN! Once they break in they seem to start throwin good almost immediatly. Don't forget to preheat that mold up to at least 750 before you start keeping. Good luck!!!

[EMC45]

I know when I lube the sprue plate with beeswax it will sometimes migrate to the base of some just cast bullets. It looks like air bubbles in the base. I just toss afew castings worth in the pot and then it goes back to normal. For me just a touch of the wax to the pivot area and I am good to go.

[RobS]

GW: You have your mold clean as you have stated with five different casting sessions, assumingly with at least five different cleanings and with a good procedure so I feel you are good on this end. You've been casting long enough to know about Bull Plate lube so I doubt that this is the problem either. I will say in my experience that you are casting too cold for that style of mold. Also, the man who makes the mold stated he found best results at 820 degrees.

Post #18 is MiHec's statement on this mold

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76032

Rob

[gray wolf]

I thought I had my heat up high enough because the base of the bullets looked like they were starting to fog, Not frosty but the metal looked hazy or like I said foggy/cloudy.
I thought I was close to getting frosty. With my 2 other iron molds I cast at #5 on my pot.
I was using #6.5 or 7 for the brass mold. Yes I have cast many bullets and most times I work out a problem quite fast but this one did not go away for me.
I am the last one to put things down and say they beat me, so I will use more heat and be sure I start with a clean mold AGAIN. I am sure a thermometer would be grate help but it ain't in the cards at this time. As soon as the darn snow melts again I will be back at it and I will use all the information you men have given. I am hoping the next pictures will show the problem solved.

[gray wolf]

Update--

Today I cast some bullets from a Lyman 32 ACP mold that a forum member lent me.
I used the same metal that gave me the inclusion problem with Mi Hecks mold.
( the bullets that I posted in my first post )
I had my pot on #9 I have never had it up that high. I used the Bull Plate lube ( very little )
Now here is the interesting part If I let the metal go directly in the center of the mold
from the bottom drip pot I got the same kind of bullets with the spots and inclusions on them,
But if I let the metal hit the edge and swirl into the mold I got great looking bullets.
I very much think that my problem is gassing of the metal--I also used saw dust for the flux.
The saw dust worked out great. The mold was hot and the pot was cranked all the way up.
I cast at a fast pace and got no frosting of the bullets.
I am thinking perhaps my pot is not giving the heat it used to--
I never cast on more than # 6 even for 470 grain ash cans for my BP rifle, and that is with pure lead. The thing is my 32 ACP bullets cast a little small .3115 and that made them a little hard to size .312 -- My bullets are a little soft so I may have to much lead in my mix.
I can add some Lyno and see if I get better fill out also it should lower the temp of the mix a bit.
As for the brass mold I still think it is a gassing problem making the inclusions in the bullets.
I hate to think my pot is going on me--like I said I never cast with the pot all the way up before but I had to today with the 32 ACP mold.
Anyway it was interesting to see the inclusions go away when I hit the side of the mold and did not go right in the middle of the whole.
I hope someone can make sense of all I have tried to say.

Sam

[Bad Water Bill]

Somewhere in the dark VERY distant past there were many articles about SWIRLING the lead stream down the side to let the air escape as the cavity is filled with molten lead. Some times no matter what the vent lines look like they need a little help. I guess it still works for you.

That's why they let some of us old fa--s hang around. Takes a little time but sometimes we do remember. Now I have earned my keep for another day or so.

[scrapcan]

Gray wolf,

Sounds like you are getting things worked out. Just remember that mould prep in cavities can and will change the dimensions. You might try to clean the 32 mould and run without mould prep. I do not use it but the 32 mould you are using had it applied by the last user whom I loaned it to. Clean it and see what happens.

Jeremy

[pjh421]

GW,
You could also read-up on Beagling your mould to make fatter boolits instead of changing your alloy.

Paul

[Drew_CarreyAB]

GW, I have the same pot as you and it is nearing 12 years old.....after watching some youtube vids and reading on here, I tried to lower my temp on the pot and I get it down to just under "8" before the pot "froze" on me......Don't like it when it does that, I usually use a drill bit by hand to open up the crust as I have waited over an hour after turning it up to max for the crust to melt back in.
I too am having the inclusions you speak of but it is on a lee-mented(did it the next day I read it on here LOL)Lyman 314299 mould I use for my 303Brit...Cleaned the vents, twirled the bullet in the mould.......I heat the mould over the BBQ for 2-3 min before I start casting and it takes half a dozen to start looking good....I also quench the mould on the bottom around every 10 casts(touch and go)seems to work, but then I run out of lead in the pot and have to let the mould cool because I am farting around with the pot.........