anyone else get a query from Mesa PD

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I received a PM from darklily45, Join Date: 04-15-2010 Number of posts: 0
Did anyone else get a PM from Her ?

If you did, Be advised that the sale of Ammunition and Ammunition Components are controlled by the BATFE, and a type 6 FFL is required to sell such items.
I'm not sure if this is what it seems, or if it's a trap.

I would suspect an actual request for Ammunition Components from a Large City's Police Department would be more official, typically a Letter sent via US Mail on Police Department letter head.

I was a lowly City Police Reserve for several years, the only time that department would be snooping around in a online discussion forum...was for a sting.

Lastly, Ashely if your request is exactly what it seems,
I will gladly send you some samples.
I rescind this offer, see post #8 for reason
Please provide all your contact information and your supervisors name and phone number. Posted for the public to see. This type of request should not be secretive,
Jon


below is a copy of the PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Swaging 9mm CC into bullets
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi there!
I was reading up on your swaging 9mm cases into bullets and was wondering if you'd be willing to sell some of those 9mm CC bullets? I'm a Firearms Examiner for the Mesa Police Department in AZ and would like to load a few and do some testing just in case we ever get something similar in casework.
Thanks for your time!
Ashely
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



this was cut and pasted from:
http://www.mesaaz.gov/police/forensic_services/Firearms_Unit.aspx

Mesa Police Department Forensic Services
Firearms Unit

A Forensic Firearms Examiner (I, II, & III) conducts examinations of firearms and tool mark evidence to determine if a firearm or tool was used in a crime. Suspected firearms or tools are compared to evidence cartridge cases, bullets, or tool marks using a comparison microscope. Other examinations performed include firearms function testing, distance determinations, ejection pattern testing, obliterated serial number restorations, and shooting incident reconstructions. In addition, examiners enter fired cartridge cases and bullets into the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN), which contains images of fired cartridge cases and bullets from crime scenes, as well as test fires from guns used in crimes. When new images are entered into the system, images are searched in the database for a match. Members of this unit also testify in court.

[ANeat]

There was someone else here who provided a few samples to a CSI type of agency.

Of course they could get a set of dies and roll their own ;)

[darklily45]

Just got my registration email so now I can post on the forum! :)

Sent you a PM earlier in response to this post. I mentioned in my original PM that I work for the MPD to explain why I wanted a couple of bullets; this is by no means an "official request".

Would be happy to send you my info and my supervisor's info but I'd prefer that not everyone on the forum has it (no offense to everyone on the forum!).

My understanding on the selling of ammunition and ammunition components is that you only need a license if you have a business or make a significant profit from selling it. (Much the same as hand to hand personal firearm sales.)

[deltaenterprizes]

darklily45 sounds like a person I would like to meet! Firearms forensics an interesting field.
It would truly be rare to find this type of bullet used in a crime considering that few of the members here are so inclined, but stranger things have happened! Having a sample of what is out there and how they can be made plus a list of possibles to track down could solve an otherwise unsolvable situation.
I have a few .223 bullets made from 22LR brass I would be glad to send for you to add to your collection. Send me a PM with your info.

[ANeat]

Perhaps you could swap for some brass from the firing range???

[DukeInFlorida]

I have been having PM discussions with our new visitor, and her request isn't much different from what I have previously discussed with a firearms examiner from the Los Angeles PD.

The problem is that if all of the large city PD's start requesting samples, that's all we would be doing.

For most of us, even the prospect of selling ONE BULLET to a PD is scary.

I'd send some samples, no charge, for the sake of science. But, as mentioned, how many requests do we fill????

I have suggested that perhaps there's a way to support a one time analysis of this swaged bullet type, and have that shared with all of the PD's. Put some in the FBI bullet sample collection (if they aren't already there).

It's not likely that any of these bullets would ever show up in some forensic review, however. Reloaders are (by and large) good people, and the "bad guys" would never take the time to create bullets like these.

Just my two cents worth.....

Welcome to the forum, DarkLilly.

[Bullshop]

Plead the 5th, anything you say (provide) can and will be used against you (us ammo loaders) in a court of law.
I DONT TRUST THEM!!!!!
Noting to gain and too much to loose. Trust is earned and they haven't. I just get the sneaking suspicion that you are being baited for something.
Beware!
BIC/BS

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Ashely,
After searching atf.gov
I've desided it is unwise for me to ship any swaged bullets to you.
it's that whole interstate commerce thing.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html#ammo-reloading
ATF HomeFirearmsFrequently Asked Questions: Manufacturers

#4
Q: Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?
Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-gca-ammunition.html
The term “Ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.

http://www.fylrr.com/archives.php?doc=atf-p-5300-4.pdf
THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968, TITLE 18, UNITED STATE CODE, CHAPTER 44
see page 8 of 243

§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—(A) except a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed
dealer, to engage in the business of
importing, manufacturing, or dealing
in firearms, or in the course of such
business to ship, transport, or receive
any firearm in interstate or foreign
commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or
licensed manufacturer, to engage in
the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the
course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition
in interstate or foreign commerce;

[Sarg]

We sound like a bunch of jerks ... but it's the nature of the laws that have bound us this way. A hundred years ago it was common to barter and trade to acquire the things that you needed/wanted. Unfortunately in this day and age it can land you in jail just for the sake of trying to help someone.

Is there a definition for "the purpose of livelihood and profit"? So if you reloaded as a hobby and provided reloads to others, but did not rely on the money to support your family - would that qualify? It would not be your livelihood ... just some spare cash you made on the side. The are just too many things that are open to "interpretation". I absolutely hate all these laws that have been created that have back ourselves into a judicial corner ... what ever happened to ".... shall not be infringed."?

Sarg

[bohica2xo]

You don't sound like jerks to me.

There is a REASON everybody is so careful now. Between the BATFE and the PMDTC / ITAR plenty of honest folks have paid lawyers their life savings to clear up a procedural error.

Just not worth the trouble.

B.

[ph4570]

Plead the 5th, anything you say (provide) can and will be used against you (us ammo loaders) in a court of law.
I DONT TRUST THEM!!!!!
Noting to gain and too much to loose. Trust is earned and they haven't. I just get the sneaking suspicion that you are being baited for something.
Beware!
BIC/BS

plus 9,999,999,998.75 on that :!:

[ETG]

OK, this is getting so convoluted these days. The US government considers (well maybe not tomorrow) fired cases as scrap. So is this interpretation that any individule who sells brass or surplus bullets a criminal??? I'm no lawyer but I do know for certain BATFE monitors all these sites (more than one individule has gotten a visit because of posts). If someone selling 1000 9mm cases is a fellon I would think there would be a lot of people missing from this and other boards. Wish there was some way to get an answer that you don't have to bet the rest of your life on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[darklily45]

JonB in Glencoe: That's okay. I'm sorry if I've put you in an uncomfortable spot; I didn't mean to.

DukeInMaine: I understand your point about not wanting to get request after request for samples from us forensic types. Thank you for all of your information and for talking with me.

Sarge: It is open to some interpretation but I think you'd have to be making some serious $ and doing a lot of sales for the BATFE to think you were engaged in the business. (Like the fellows that go to gun shows and have a table selling guns week after week but are trying to claim that it's just a few personal firearms that they are selling.)

My purpose in coming here and asking for assistance was not to get anyone in trouble or rile anyone up. I was simply trying to obtain a few cartridge case bullets (which as you can imagine I haven't seen before) so I can do my job better.

[bohica2xo]

Ashely, while you appear to be sincere... 30+ years of experiences with badge toting thugs have made your job a lot harder.

While selling cases is not controlled, bullet manufacture is. Both bullets & loaded ammo require an FFL to manufacture for sale. With that FFL comes the responsibility to register with the US Department of State, otherwise known as the PMDTC.

Even if you have NO intention of shipping bullets or ammo out of the country, the office of Defense Trade Controls requires you to register with them as a producer of "Significant Military Equipment" or SME.

With the layers of federal laws to comply with, come endless audits & inspections. Some folks have had some awful experiences, and this is a small community. We all talk to each other...

B.

[Danth]

Ashely: I'll bet the vast majority of members of this forum are more than willing to help law enforcement in most any way possible. I think if you posted your mailing address under your profile, many would feel more comfortable sending samples anonymously. Best, Danth

[JIMinPHX]

If someone from Mesa PD were to ask me to sell them samples of any ammo component that I had made, I would drive down to the station house & just give them a handful.

[bohica2xo]

Jim:

You would be at no risk to do so. If Ashely was here in Las Vegas, and an employee of LVMPD I would do the same.


The rub is she asked someone in another state to SELL her some bullets.

So let's say for sake of argument that "Ashely" is actually a bored, overzealous ATF agent. He gets someone to sell bullets, and ship them to a PO box in AZ. WooHoo big time criminal! He gets to start a cross country investigation!

As innocent as the offer may be, it has the smell of other agencies stunts. Like I said, the bad taste of other LEO contacts makes them all suspect.

B.

[JIMinPHX]

Bohica, I'm not saying that my situation is the same as the other guy's. I was just saying what I would do if they made the request of me. Perhaps I should have been more clear about that. I certainly wouldn't expect the other guy to drive to Mesa from Minnesota. That's for sure. His situation is different from mine.

[JIMinPHX]

Quite frankly, this sounds to me like some ballistics technician down in Mesa stumbled upon our website & was fascinated by some of the things that she found here & had never encountered before. It sounds like she wanted to test out a few samples, either out of professional or personal curiosity. A ballistics expert may not be up on all the legal details of ammunition shipment. Her scope of expertise may be limited to the technical end of things. If that was the case, then this all seems perfectly plausible.

Of course, it is also possible that this is an overzealous sting of some sort, as was previously suggested. I don't personally know any officers down in Mesa, so I don't know if they have a tech there named Ashley or not.

In any case, it is never a bad idea to err on the side of caution & follow the law to the last letter. I think that choosing not to ship the ammunition components from one state to another can be considered a prudent action to have taken.

Another avenue of research that Ashley might choose to take is to follow the examples given on this board & manufacture a few test projectiles of her own. Perhaps one of the more experienced swagers here might offer her some suggestions to help get her started down that path. I haven't successfully swaged any boolits, so I can't be of much help there.

I am always happy to help the PD engage in any legitimate research that they may wish to do. Running tests on all types of known projectiles certainly seems like a legitimate avenue of research for a ballistics technician to take.

[JIMinPHX]

... what ever happened to ".... shall not be infringed."?

Sarg

The same thing that happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty. Over the years, it has been abrogated, one little bit at a time. Unfortunately, that is the world that we live in today in this country. Unfortunately, the fear of malicious prosecution makes it more difficult for honest citizens to cooperate with law enforcement sometimes.

[Daywalker]

Just asking here. Seen the info about selling them needing the liscence. However, if one was to trade them, then there would be nothing illegal correct? Doesn't say anything about trading or giving as a gift.

I am not saying to try and make a trade with Ashley. I am just trying to see where you all stand on the part of trading or giving as a gift.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Daywalker,
I assume you read this whole thread. If you are not a holder of a type 6 FFL,
Shipping your cast bullets and swaged bullets across state lines,
if these items were manufactured by you, puts you at risk of prosecution.
read this link in conjunction with the 1968 guncontrol act I referenced in post #8.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_commerce

I haven't found any laws or ATF rules that prohibit a nonholder of a type 6 FFL
from shipping spent brass cases and commercial manufactured bullets,
in a NOT for profit type situation. (I'd call it a online swap meet or garage sale).
But I surely could be wrong.
Jon

PS. I know of some people who have shipped cast Fishing weights across state lines.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

a bored, overzealous ATF agent. He gets someone to sell bullets, and ship them to a PO box in AZ. WooHoo big time criminal! He gets to start a cross country investigation! As innocent as the offer may be, it has the smell of other agencies stunts.

IMHO, it's less likely that one ATF agent is oversealous. The whole Agency is overzealous, they have tried to start building a national registry of gun owners several times in the last few decades. The US Congress has stopped the ATF each time by threatening to withhold funding.

If you are unfamiliar with Randy Weaver, this is a long read, but really shows how this agency is overzealous...to put it mildly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

A Firearm ownership rights organization I belong to put out this movie
that puts a scary light on the ATF
http://www.thegangmovie.com/

[wallenba]

Darklily45, should you ever encounter some unknown type, post a pic here with some dimensional info about it. Someone here will know what it is.

[Curlymaple42]

Is Ashley a guy or a girl? I got an Ashley right up the road that is a guy. Just wondering. Doesn't matter. Anyways, just thinking about the whole "business and livelihood" thing. Take a C&R FFL. It is not an FFL to have a business but you are able to "dispose" of firearms that are C&R registered in your bound book at market value. This of course can net you a "profit". I think it depends on how much you do it though. Are you ordered 100 Enfields and selling them for profit? THAT would be a business. Do you order say 3 Enfields and pick the one you like and "dispose" of the rest at market value? THAT is not a business, that is collecting. So back to ammo, it is a big muddled mess really. I think the reason people don't handload for others like friends and such is more for liability reasons. If you aren't a business registered to load ammo, you aren't backed by any ammo liability insurance. One thing I am curious about though is if you need a license (Type6FFL) to make Pb Boolits and sell them online? It sort of sounds like you do from what is written above.

[waksupi]

You could "loan" the bullets to the agency. Get a signed, notarized letter, stating the bullets belong to you, are on loan for testing, and are to be returned to you after testing is complete. Whether they would ever be returned to you or not wouldn't really matter, but you would be covered as to ownership of the bullets, and establishing you had not sold them.

[DukeInFlorida]

Not sure if that makes any difference at all. I know that you're one of those Maine rednecks, but this is the 2010's! Things are different now. hahaha

In any event, this whole discussion is silly. If she PM's me a mailing address, I will send her (or him) some free samples.

I have already cautioned that unless this person is an experienced reloader, loading the 9mm case version for .40 S&W, pressure will be an issue. Not for a novice reloader. Heck, I'm still developing this load myself!



Is Ashley a guy or a girl? I got an Ashley right up the road that is a guy. Just wondering. Doesn't matter.

[fivegunner]

I think, that if a person who works for the goverment would just buy all the equimpment they wanted to make the bullets ( at top price ,and charge it to the tax payers) Please don`t ask me how I know:bigsmyl2:

[deltaenterprizes]

You guy need to read the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act, most of you are smoking too much wacky weed or something.
From the screen name I would believe that Ashly is a lady and should be treated as such, she might be really "hot " too!( Have I been watching too much CSI?)

[jixxerbill]

You guy need to read the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act, most of you are smoking too much wacky weed or something.
From the screen name I would believe that Ashly is a lady and should be treated as such, she might be really "hot " too!( Have I been watching too much CSI?)

i lol'ed .........

[Daywalker]

Daywalker,
I assume you read this whole thread. If you are not a holder of a type 6 FFL,
Shipping your cast bullets and swaged bullets across state lines,
if these items were manufactured by you, puts you at risk of prosecution.
read this link in conjunction with the 1968 guncontrol act I referenced in post #8.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_commerce

I haven't found any laws or ATF rules that prohibit a nonholder of a type 6 FFL
from shipping spent brass cases and commercial manufactured bullets,
in a NOT for profit type situation. (I'd call it a online swap meet or garage sale).
But I surely could be wrong.
Jon

PS. I know of some people who have shipped cast Fishing weights across state lines.


Yea I have read your posts and everything you posted. It only talks about the BUISNESS aspect of things and Commerce which is for selling. It still does not talk about a gift from a friend to a friend with no exchange of monies. Even a penny can be seen as making money if they wanted to push it. Even home casts, does not talk about giving away free cast boolits or transporting in a non buisness or commerce way.. That is why I was asking.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Daywalker,
I hope someone else can answer your question better than I can.
with that said, I am still going to try again anyway.

The words Business and Commerce in that section of the 1968 Guncontrol act need to be better defined somewhere, I am unable to find those definitions.

What sticks in my head is the FAQ #4 allowing "reloads only for personal use"
I'm not sure if reload can pretain to casting boollits or swaging bullets.
I know I wouldn't use that terminology, But I also wouldn't define Ammunition
the way the ATF does.

I could feel comfortable explaining to a Judge that trading spent cases and excess components manufactured by a licensed manufacturer was the best way of disposing something I am no longer interested in using myself, that was originally bought for my personal use.

But I think it would be tough to explain why I am manufacturing new bullets, NOT for my personal use, but to trade them and ship them across state lines. Would a Judge buy the line, "Oh yeah, I made them for my personal use, but I made way too many, so I'm trading them with a buddy in another state for something I really want to use."

The text of the 1968 gun control act wants the manufacture of ammunition regulated via a license through the ATF, but it doesn't say anything about regulating brass scroungers at the range. Also the federal Government has limited regulatory powers, but it makes use of the Commerce Clause in the constitution to regulate many things the States should regulate.

This is my rationale for the understanding of this Law, be it right or wrong. Again, without the words Business and Commerce defined by this law, I can't give you a better answer.

This reminds me of Bill Clinton's famous words, "it depends on what the definition of the word is, is ?"
Jon

[deltaenterprizes]

The 1986 law amends the 1968 Gun Control Act!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bdbullets]

Back several years ago I called the ATF and asked them about selling cast bullets on internet auction sites and they told me there was no problem with it and I did not need any special permits. This was back about 8 or 9 years ago so the laws could have changed and I only did it for about 2 years and then everybody started doing it so I quit and just make bullets for myself now.
I have some very good friends in Law Enforcement and I called one of them this evening and he told me it would not be illegal to send her a few bullets plus I think it would be a waste of time to go after somebody for sending 2 or 3 bullets to a police dept. So I will be sending out 3 of them in the morning to them. The address she gave me was to the Meza police dept. forensics division.
There are a lot of good reasons to be paranoid in todays world but I don't think this is one of them. We as a group of law abiding citizens should be suporting our officers of the law. I know there are a few a**hole cops, but there are more good police officers out there that we never hear about putting thier lives on the line for us everyday.
This is just my personal opinion.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The 1986 law amends the 1968 Gun Control Act!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK Delta, I spent 20 minutes perusing this Law,
I couldn't find anything in it about Ammunition and Ammunition Components.
Help me out.
where does it amend 922 (a) (1) (B) of 1968 Gun Control Act.
Jon

[deltaenterprizes]

It defined "engaged in the business" and allowed an occasional sale of a small amount of reloaded ammo or components as not being "engaged in the business".
It was in all the firearms related press at the time, Neal Knox had a lot on it in his column in "The Shotgun News", Guns and Ammo and the American Rifleman covered it also. Some of these guys were kids then.

[Buckshot]

............My daughter is a forensics investigator for a local PD. They have a large collection of cartridge cases that was simply something one of them had started years back. Basically they were interested in having a representative case for each cartridge and then also mulitple cases fir headstamp ID use. They may be the only PD around the area with Kynoch, Bertram, and Mag-Tech headstamped 577-450, and 577 Snider cases around, let alone .43 Mauser, .43 Spanish, 45-90, 40-65, and 11.4x42R Comblain :-)

..............Buckshot

[Adam10mm]

I haven't found any laws or ATF rules that prohibit a nonholder of a type 6 FFL
from shipping spent brass cases and commercial manufactured bullets,
in a NOT for profit type situation. (I'd call it a online swap meet or garage sale).
But I surely could be wrong.

If they didn't manufacture it, there is no need for an FFL. The 06 FFL is a license to manufacture ammunition and components, not sell them. There is no FFL to sell ammunition, just manufacture it.



What sticks in my head is the FAQ #4 allowing "reloads only for personal use"
I'm not sure if reload can pretain to casting boollits or swaging bullets.
I know I wouldn't use that terminology, But I also wouldn't define Ammunition
the way the ATF does.
Unfortunately, what the GCA defines ammunition as, is what the court has and will uphold.


I could feel comfortable explaining to a Judge that trading spent cases and excess components manufactured by a licensed manufacturer was the best way of disposing something I am no longer interested in using myself, that was originally bought for my personal use.
Again, if you didn't make it, the 06 FFL does NOT APPLY.


The text of the 1968 gun control act wants the manufacture of ammunition regulated via a license through the ATF, but it doesn't say anything about regulating brass scroungers at the range.
That's because you aren't making the brass, you are selling brass other manufacturers made. The ATF only regulates manufacturers of ammunition (and importers), not brass scroungers.

I know a lot of guys here and on other forums that are selling their cast and swaged bullets without being properly licensed as an 06 FFL. They are just setting themselves up for some serious legal trouble from the ATF. The ATF seriously does not mess around with this stuff and takes their job very seriously. If you break the law, they will grind you into the ground and walk all over you. The FFL is a lousy $30. Do it right or don't do it at all.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The whole thing here sounds like trollwork. A zero poster sends a PM. What is asked could be done locally if legit.

Just block the sender. By now you have enough sense to know things that sound fishy are.

BvT

[wiljen]

Me thinks this whole thing is much ado about nothing. Say what you will, do what you will but at the end of the day, I hope the FBI and ATF have better things to do than bother me for a couple of swaged or cast boolits. I know dumb things happen, but I'd still like to think that isn't a daily norm.

[DukeInFlorida]

I have sent Ashely some samples of my swaged 9mm case .40 S&W projectiles. I included some cast cores, and some annealed WCC head stamped 9mm cases. She says that they have some reloading supplies there, but no one has any reloading experience, per se. The .40 S&W has some peculiarities that make is more of an "Intermediate Level" round to reload. This swaged bullet almost makes it more than that.

I urge her to seek out an experienced reloader in the Mesa area, and have them load these for her testing.

[Adam10mm]

The .40 S&W has some peculiarities that make is more of an "Intermediate Level" round to reload.
[smilie=b:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have sent Ashely some samples of my swaged 9mm case .40 S&W projectiles...The .40 S&W has some peculiarities that make is more of an "Intermediate Level" round to reload. This swaged bullet almost makes it more than that...I urge her to seek out an experienced reloader in the Mesa area, and have them load these for her testing.

Duke, I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you sent her something near the weight of the ones I have been swaging and loading, which is 193 grains.
I offer my advice, Hopefully she is still lurking here.

my pet Load for the 193 gr. Swage in 40 S&W is 6.1 gr. of AA #5

Approach any other loads for 40 S&W with caution !
since 1/3 of the bullet weight is brass which is much
lighter then Lead, it makes these bullets longer.
So when seating them to the Max. SAAMI OAL=1.135"
the case capacity is limited, Most starting charges for
other powders will be a compressed charge or dang close to it.
which could cause pressure issues.
Jon

PS. If someone is test shooting these in a Glock, and loading them from used brass of unknown history, whereas the possibly of it having been previously shot from a Glock, Be advised, that the potential "Glock Bulge" should be removed before sizing. Of course this is a given, but I believe it is even more important with these longer projectiles and possible high pressure issues.

[DukeInFlorida]

The ones I sent are made from WCC head stamped brass, and a 124 grain cast core, which brings the assembled weight to 187 grains.

[Adam10mm]

You have no idea the liability you just subjected yourself to.

[DukeInFlorida]

Bring it on.......

As mentioned, I had previously gotten a request from the Los Angeles, CA firearms examiner, for the same samples. I sent those out to LA a while back. Now, that's a place that if they were out to bust your chops, I would already be answering questions under a hot light. The LEO people I have met are all good people.

Honestly, they are just as inquisitive about swaging bullets as we are!

Move along, there's nothing more to see........




You have no idea the liability you just subjected yourself to.

[Adam10mm]

Don't say I didn't warn you.

[DukeInFlorida]

OMG, the drama!

[leadman]

With the economic situation here in Az. I'm sure there are no funds to go out and buy swaging equipment for a bullet they may never encounter.
There was a news piece recently where Mesa is looking to cut funding for Police and other departments too.
I retired from the City of Phoenix and my son still works there. Active employees are getting salary cuts and other benefits cut. Our health insurance for retirees is going up $273 a month in August. We lost other benifits too.
Just a little insight into the economy here.
That said, I was a Foreman in an auto repair shop for the C.O.P. and met many officers. Can't think of a one that would bother to bust someone for something like this. Hope I'm right.

[Adam10mm]

It's not the local police that would enforce it, it's the ATF's jurisdiction. Local PD could tattle-tale on them and get the ATF to arrest.

[deltaenterprizes]

It's not the local police that would enforce it, it's the ATF's jurisdiction. Local PD could tattle-tale on them and get the ATF to arrest.

Giving bullets to anybody is not a crime unless they are a convicted felon or under 21 and the bullets are for use in a handgun.
Ashley is a nice lady, I sent her some 22 RF bullets.

[DukeInFlorida]

Amen. Time to close the thread.