I opened a can of worm

[Porterhouse]

I just slugged the bore and checked the cylinder throats of my 500 Smith. Bad idea, VERY bad idea. The muzzle came out .5015", throats don't accepy .4995 pin gage and I've been shooting .500 sized boolits all these years.
Now I think about it, the gun never shot good with lightish(under 400gr) boolits while I get decent group with heavy(500+ gr) ones. I've spent past few days re-reading both LBT's and Beartooth's books, searching for related subjects on this forum and loosing sleep. But no matter how I look at it, opening the throats and switch to bigger boolits seems mandatory. This means I need new molds as many of my old molds won't make big enough boolits. Then I also realized; I still have over 1,500 boolits sitting at the corner waiting to be loaded. They are naturally, all sized to .500, lubed, and Gas checks on. What a waste...

[Ben]

Tis better to know than not to know...............

[69daytona]

That has to suck. I just recheck all the slugs I made for my 500s and all three of my Smiths are .499 at the muzzle, .488 at the throat of the barrel and the cylinder throats are all .496-
.497.
Sounds like you need to get in on the 600 or 700gr GB going on now.

[jimmeyjack]

I have been known to cast, size , lube and load several hundred rounds before I find out my guns don't like 'em.

[sheepdog]

I just slugged the bore and checked the cylinder throats of my 500 Smith. Bad idea, VERY bad idea. The muzzle came out .5015", throats don't accepy .4995 pin gage and I've been shooting .500 sized boolits all these years.
Now I think about it, the gun never shot good with lightish(under 400gr) boolits while I get decent group with heavy(500+ gr) ones. I've spent past few days re-reading both LBT's and Beartooth's books, searching for related subjects on this forum and loosing sleep. But no matter how I look at it, opening the throats and switch to bigger boolits seems mandatory. This means I need new molds as many of my old molds won't make big enough boolits. Then I also realized; I still have over 1,500 boolits sitting at the corner waiting to be loaded. They are naturally, all sized to .500, lubed, and Gas checks on. What a waste...

I know this probably sounds crazy but you can hammer tap the tips to fatten the boolits out a little then run them through a larger sizer if need be.

[JIMinPHX]

I prefer to rebarreling to reaming throats, but that's just me.

[stubshaft]

Just have the cylinder reamed out and try the boolits you have on hand. They may "slug up" and shoot just fine.

[pietro]

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:bqH_9ppuovGoyM::williamthecoroner.fil es.wordpress.com/2008/09/istock_can-of-worms.jpg&t=1&h=196&w=129&usg=__aZN6jILEYvWC78hjM2OyLMPWClY=

[Porterhouse]

Okay ok! before this post gets off the subject too far, one thing I want to ask you is; Do you agree that I need to open the throats?

[RKJ]

Yeah, trolling. Some people here seem to think it's perfectly fine to use their signatures to troll for a fight and then they act surprised when they find one.




C'mon guys, the OP asked a legitimate question and you guys are hijacking it. Take it somewhere else. Now having said that and taking it off subject my self, I'm getting out of it.

[fatelk]

Someone's been hitting the blue cool-aid a little hard. A little combative, are we? Why not bring it over to to the political sub-forum?

On second thought, maybe not. You don't sound very open to reasonable discourse.

I can see that you've been around here a lot longer than I have, but a hijack like this sure doesn't seem right to me.

A little more on-topic: I am curious about this issue. I have a 629 .44 mag that the barrel slugs a bit over .430, and the cylinder throats are more like .434". I size my boolits to .430, and it is the most accurate revolver I own.

[Echo]

No matter what way you go, it will be expensive. But how about sending back to Smith, pointing out the errors in size of the associated items, and pointing out that NO gun will shoot accurately with those dimensions?

[targetshootr]

Why not bring it over to to the political sub-forum?

That's a question to ask people who put all that stuff in their signatures.

[Edubya]

You know, you might be afraid of nothing. Go ahead and load up a small number of those boolits that are ready and fire them. After shooting one single, check your barrel and cylinder if if looks okay, load up a few more, check and progress with the same precaution. Just keep your load light to moderate at first. I hope that all of this worry is for naught, but if it is shooting very sloppily or heavy leading, you've got more information to provide S&W.
Good luck,
EW

[Porterhouse]

Edubya,
I've shot over 1,000rds through this gun but 3" is about as small as I can get at 50yds. Leading? Well, i don't see any significant problem, just a little gray. Some recovered boolits(from snow bank) show lots of skidding and looks like they grew to .5015.
The question is; would I hurt something if I go with bigger throats and bigger boolits?

[9.3X62AL]

Zero experience with the .500 S&W, and a little with a Ruger 45 Colt "built backwards" like your S&W appears to be.

That Ruger Bishawk was a leading monster and not very accurate with most boolits, but shot jacketed bullets pretty darn well. It also did fairly well with one cast design, Lyman #454490, a gas-checked SWC. I owned the revolver and fired it fairly frequently in its factory trim, and while it was certainly usable--it wasn't "right". A revolver incapable of usage with a variety of cast boolits is practically useless to me, not to mention very expensive to feed......j-words or gas checks being needed to make the thing function.

I went ahead and reamed/honed the throats to .453", the groove diameter being .452". The revolver was INSTANTLY lead-friendly. No more leading, and a number of plain-base boolit designs shot very well to excellently. I already had a number of moulds that produced .454" boolits, so there was no need to re-tool for the opened throats.

There may not be a need for you to do so, either. Adding some tin and antimony to your alloy might gain you .001"-.002" of diameter at the 50 caliber level. If that doesn't work, then your present mould(s) can be "Beagled" with HVAC aluminum tape to cheat the bullets fatter.

My view--as long as the throating is done properly, I see a lot of possible gain and very little risk of loss by opening those throats. I have yet to hear from anyone who opened the throats on a Ruger 45 Colt that regretted doing so.

Mi dos centavos, solamente.

[1874Sharps]

Porterhouse,

I think 9.3X62AL is on the right track here. If you carefully hone out the clinder throats, or have a gunsmith do the job, you will likely solve the problem. Of course returning the gun to S&W would also fix it if they will do it under warranty (which it seems they should). Even though it defies the general rule, you may find that after opening the cylinder throats the boolits/rounds you have on hand might work OK. Stranger things have happened.

[JIMinPHX]

No matter what way you go, it will be expensive. But how about sending back to Smith, pointing out the errors in size of the associated items, and pointing out that NO gun will shoot accurately with those dimensions?

I tried that a couple of years ago with a gun that I bought new. S&W was real good about sending out a call tag to have UPS pick up my gun. They didn't charge me dime 1 for shipping either way. Unfortunately, all they did was to hold my gun for many weeks, then send it back to me with 3 dirty chambers & a note saying that it had been tested & found to be safe to fire.

When I sent the gun to them, I included a note asking them to evaluate it & see if they thought that it had a warranty issue. If they found that it didn't, then please send me a price quote for a rebarrel with a smaller groove diameter. They completely ignored the second half of my request. I had been very happy with any contact that I had with S&W before this incident. This little stunt left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I've owned many S&W handguns over the years. I haven't bought anything from S&W since this incident.

[stubshaft]

You wouldn't hurt anything by going to bigger throats. Cylindersmith may be able to open your chambers for you and the boolits may shoot well out of them. One other thing you may want to check is for restriction at the point where the barrel screws into the frame. It has been known to swage down the barrel slightly. If you push a pure lead slug (egg sinker or cast slug) down the bore you can feel the pressure build when it gets to the forcing cone area if it has a restriction.

[canyon-ghost]

Porterhouse, if I may..
I have a couple of revolvers, nothing fancy or expensive so, there's slightly less stress involved in the decisions. My little trail gun was a purchase, the man said he had no interest in it, little H&R 32 mag. It didn't shoot factory really decent, was a 2'X3' pattern. I just bought a .314 sizing die and shrunk the groups to 3"! Little possum killer works now. I have some rounds, about 45 that are just a tad too hot from testing it, they'll shoot high. I'll still keep them, close range varmint irradication.
The other is a new New Model Blackhawk in 41 mag, it only shoots factory because I need the cylinder throats opened up, the same as yourself. Cylindersmith can do that for $30. Meanwhile, I'll have to hold off casting for it. A bit of patience on my part because, I want to shoot the heck out of it, I like that 41 Mag round I just discovered. Haven't been doing this all that long either. But, like these guys are suggesting, a guy either makes allowances and finds uses for inaccurate ammo, or redoes it. What won't impress a target shooter- might just kill a varmint. After all, you don't impress 'em to death.
Just a matter of uses and goals
Ron

[Dframe]

I'd follow an earlier suggestion and have S&W fix the gun.
Then I'd beagle your mould and offer the (Too small) already cast boolits for sale here on the forum, and cast some new ones.
Did I leave anything out?

[Porterhouse]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys,
Yeah, I contacted S&W but they said it's within factory spec. and won'ty touch it. What the heck! I've got to do it; open the throats and try .502 boolits. If that works and shrink the group, I'll be really happy. If not, well, that's life. I should worry about other things later. I'll keep you posted. Oh, by the way, I found more worms. My seater/crimp die won't work as above the crimping step is smaller than .502...

[Dframe]

Try Brownells for reamers to open your throats. They often have tools that enable (DIY) amature gunsmiths to work on their own guns. The cost of the tools MAY be less than having a pro do the work. They also have tools for all the pros out there.