Gave the New Marlin a work out

[omgb]

Results from 7/15/06 Testing

San Fracisquito Canyon Range
8:10-1:30 PM
Temp Starting: 82F Ending: 109F
Wnds Lgt and Vrbl
Guns cleaned between strings.


Gun #1 Marlin 1894CH 38/.357 mag. 18.5” barrel, XS Ghost Sight.

1) Load…PMC Factory 158gr. JSP
1657, 1662, 1653,1657, 1650
50 yrds. 3x-ring, 2 10-ring

2) Load…150gr. RCBS LSWC .358/LBT Blue 12.5 grains Alliant 2400, mixed cases CCI small pistol primer, bullet seated in crimp groove, light crimp
1559,1536,1566.1535.1562 …. Note: will not feed reliably, excess OAL
50 yrds. 12:00 on 9 ring, 6:00 on 9 and 8 ring, 7:00 on 9 ring 6:30 on 9
ring. This was not an accurate load and it did produce light leading.

3)Load… 125 grn. Beartooth LFP, Lee Lube, .358, 12.5 2400. mixed .357 cases Win. Small pistol primer. Addition White Lightning lube in groove
1590, 1126, 1454, 1526, 1428
Very Light Recoil, terribly inaccurate
12:00 8 ring, 2 and 3:00 9 ring, 5:30 10 ring, 10:00 8 ring
Medium leading in bore

4)Load… 125 grn Beartooth LFP, Lee Lube, WL in Groove, 3.5 grains Clays, mixed 38 SP cases, CCI small pistol primers Cases were sooty, not enough pressure. Inaccurate in rifle but shoots well in Model 19 Smith
839,761,829,666,553.4,833
Shots scattered between X and 9 ring, from 5:00 sweeping left to 10:30 in
8 ring

5) Load… Win Wal-Mart 100 round Bulk pack, 125 Grain FMJ, 38 SP
1040,997.6,1007,1040,1025
This was the worst load. Shots were all over the place from 3:00 on the 9
ring to 12:00 9 inches high and off the bull. Absolute crap load.

[imashooter2]

The 1894C in general likes heavy bullets. Try some in the 158-180 range and you should see a marked improvement. My favorite plain base load is a SAECO #353 lubed with 50/50 Alox over 10.5 grains of 2400. For a checked load, the group buy C358-180-RF Lee lubed with pretty much anything gets good results over 12.5 of 2400. I size everything at .359.

For your OAL issue, the Marlin can be modified pretty easily. I did it just recently and posted a report here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7750

[calaverasslim]

Not suprised at your results on the 150gr LSWC. That is kinda fast for that rifle. Try dropping your load down to around 1000 and that shud help with the leading. I also had a problem with the Marlin feeding cast boolits. I had a 30-30 and I used the 150gr FN w/checks and it wud not feed that round at all. Too long. Go figure.

I just sold some 180gr FP that I suspect wud have worked quite well in that rifle. They fit the Blackhawk with room to spare and the didn't quite reach the end of the cylinder of the Taurus. I'm fixin to pull some from some loaded 35 rem., do you want them to try out?

Slim















Results from 7/15/06 Testing

San Fracisquito Canyon Range
8:10-1:30 PM
Temp Starting: 82F Ending: 109F
Wnds Lgt and Vrbl
Guns cleaned between strings.


Gun #1 Marlin 1894CH 38/.357 mag. 18.5” barrel, XS Ghost Sight.

1) Load…PMC Factory 158gr. JSP
1657, 1662, 1653,1657, 1650
50 yrds. 3x-ring, 2 10-ring

2) Load…150gr. RCBS LSWC .358/LBT Blue 12.5 grains Alliant 2400, mixed cases CCI small pistol primer, bullet seated in crimp groove, light crimp
1559,1536,1566.1535.1562 …. Note: will not feed reliably, excess OAL
50 yrds. 12:00 on 9 ring, 6:00 on 9 and 8 ring, 7:00 on 9 ring 6:30 on 9
ring. This was not an accurate load and it did produce light leading.

3)Load… 125 grn. Beartooth LFP, Lee Lube, .358, 12.5 2400. mixed .357 cases Win. Small pistol primer. Addition White Lightning lube in groove
1590, 1126, 1454, 1526, 1428
Very Light Recoil, terribly inaccurate
12:00 8 ring, 2 and 3:00 9 ring, 5:30 10 ring, 10:00 8 ring
Medium leading in bore

4)Load… 125 grn Beartooth LFP, Lee Lube, WL in Groove, 3.5 grains Clays, mixed 38 SP cases, CCI small pistol primers Cases were sooty, not enough pressure. Inaccurate in rifle but shoots well in Model 19 Smith
839,761,829,666,553.4,833
Shots scattered between X and 9 ring, from 5:00 sweeping left to 10:30 in
8 ring

5) Load… Win Wal-Mart 100 round Bulk pack, 125 Grain FMJ, 38 SP
1040,997.6,1007,1040,1025
This was the worst load. Shots were all over the place from 3:00 on the 9
ring to 12:00 9 inches high and off the bull. Absolute crap load.

[omgb]

I sure do. Now I get the PM:drinks:

[calaverasslim]

I sure do. Now I get the PM:drinks:


Now I get your PM's. After I responded to them. I take it, you do want these bullets? Just pay the shipping they are yours. I have your addy and I'll get them out monday, if the answer is yes.

[Jack Stanley]

Even though I have to load them singly into the breech . I've found .38 cases with a 148 grain double end wadcutter and 2.7 grains of bullseye works real well .
For a heavy load , .357 cases with a 185 grain flat point and a case full of Accurate Arms #9 works good too .

Jack

[slughammer]

Jacketed, lead, lead, lead, jacketed...

I wonder if the accuracy issues were based on bore conditions? Any jacket fouling is going to lead to problems with shooting lead.

I also found the heavier boolits better in my Marlin (microgroove). Gas checked at full snort velocities. Doesn't qualify as a target rifle, but it will put 10 into 2" at 50yards.

No idea what size target you are using. Rough group size will tell more.

[omgb]

The gun has Ballard-type rifleing and I cleaned in between strings so jacket fouling most likely was not an issue..

Teh target was a standard NRA 100 yard rifle target. The best groups, with the factory ammo, ran just under 2", the lousy groups, such as the factory Win 125 grain stuff went into a pattern the size of a large dinner plate with lots of dispersment.

[Char-Gar]

A couple of observations

1) Targets differ in size and without knowing how big the 10 ring and X-ring are not much information can be shared about the accuracy. Measurments in inches or MOA yield more information to us.

2) You are on the very edge velocity wise of plain base bullets. A gas check bullet will serve you better at those speeds.

3) The carrier can be modified so the rifle will handled longer rounds.

4) Routine cleaning won't take out the metal fouling unless a solvent is used that cuts this stuff and patches are checked to make certain when it is out.

[omgb]

1. Standard NRA 100 yard target has an 18" dia. The X ring is 1.5" and the 10 ring is 3.5" The best group had 1.25" verticle dispersment and 1.75" horizontal dispersment.

2. Yup, I'm on the fringe at 1500 fps for PB bullets but, I have gone to 1900 fps with PB in my 30-30. However, the bullet metal was much harder than this and there was no forcing cone cylender gap to mess things up.

3. When I said cleaned, I meant cleaned. Kroil, Lewis Lead Remover, Ed's Red and patches come up white. There was no fouling remaining.

The 125 grain bullets are just plain too light and the lube used, Lee Tumble Lube, is not up to the task. The RCBS bullets are too soft as I cast them. I figure if I up the Linotype content and size at .359, I can get them to shoot. I solved the too long problem by removing .005 from the carrier stop. They feed just fine now.

[omgb]

Here's a photo of what the factory jacketed ammo did at 50 yards.

[steveb]

Congrats on your new Marlin.:drinks:

[Char-Gar]

Your cleaning method is great for powder fouling and lead removal, but won't cut it on jacketed bullet fouling. It takes Sweets 7.62 or a similiar product to do that.

[Char-Gar]

Oh yes... I have one of those little Marlins and am very fond of it. I use Lyman 358156 over 14.5/Alliant 2400 and get 1.5" 50 yard groups. That is about what the rifle has to give.

I size my bullets .359 and get better results than I did at .358. A thou can make a difference.

[omgb]

Charger, Charger, Charger, you just don't trust that I know how to clean a bore do you?:roll: Yes, I know about Sweet's and yes, I know you need a proper copper solvent to dissolve copper fouling. In this case, the use of Ed's Red and Kroil, left me with an un-tarnished bore. I was able to verify this with my bore scope. I didn't want to go into all of the details, seemed kinda boring but, if it helps to demonstrate that the acuracy problem was related to using PB bullets and too soft an alloy at excessive velocities, well, then I suppose I need to go into greater cleaning detail.

First, I wet the bore using Ed's Red.

Second, I run a Tornado scrubber back and forth several times until it feels smooth.

Third, I run several patches down the bore to remove all of the obvious debris.

Fourth, I run a patch of Kroil down the bore and allow it to sit 5 minutes of so. meanwhile, I complete my logs, decap the empties, clean up my shooting area etc. Usually, it's time for a cease-fire and target relplacing/marking. This might take 10 minutes.

Fifth, I run a very tight set of patches down the bore (litghtly wetted with Kroil) I examine these carefully for traces of lead or copper.

Sixth, I run another patch with Ed's Red on it and then dry.

Finally, if the patches are clean, I'm good to go. I pop the bore scope on it, check for residual fouling and if clear, begin shooting the next string.

If need be, I may run some Sweet's down the bore. However, if I shoot the jacketed bullets last, I don't have to worry anout that until i retun home.

Between the two of us, any newbies out there got two things, a quick lesson on cast bullet shooting and a good lesson on bore cleaning. Happy Shooting :drinks:

[Char-Gar]

Well I just guess I am going to have to trust you about it. Hell...I don't have a bore scope and have never even seen one. I should never argue with a man that has one of those gizmos. I give up...your barrel was clean, clean, clean :-)

[omgb]

They were selling these over on BPCR about two months ago for $40 delivered. Not very high tech but they sure do work. If only my nose were as clean as my barrel...:mrgreen: