200gr .38 SPL loads?

[336A]

I've been interested in the heavy bullets for some time now. However the data for such loads has eluded me. I would like to be able to get a 180gr - 200gr bullet going about 800fps from a 4" barrel safely. Is there any data out there that can safely do this? At the moment the only powder I have on hand that is suitable for this bullet weight is Unique. Can Unique achive 800fps with this bullet weight and do so with safe pressres?

[Beerd]

check the Alliant web site for Unique data

here is some older IMR data for both the 38 Spl & 357 Mag:

21588

[dubber123]

What gun are you shooting these from?

[336A]

What gun are you shooting these from?

A 2006 vintage S&W M10-14 that I bought brand new back in Feb 2006.

[doubs43]

Note that the posted data is from a 6" barrel. The slower powders necessary to achieve highest velocities at acceptable pressures will require a longer barrel than your 4" revolver.

The British standard issue revolver at the outbreak of WW2 was chambered for the .38 S&W using a 200 grain bullet with a MV of 630 FPS. The idea was that the long bullet was barely stabilized and would tumble upon impact. It proved to be ineffective.

IMO you'd be much better off staying with a lower velocity or moving up to a .357 to get the velocities you want without pushing the envelope.

[GabbyM]

My old Lyman 45th edition has 38 Special loads for 195 grain #358430.

Test gun was Model 14 with 6" barrel. Unique shows max of 4.1 for 772 fps. Copy write on this book is 1970 so that may be the old Unique? ?

best velocity as in most 38 Special laods is with 2400. Showing a max charge of 2400 at 9.5 grains for 893 fps. That may get you 800 fps from the 4" barrel. My wild guess would be more like 650 fps from a 4". Accuracy laods listed as 3.6 gr Unique for 671 fps. Factory duplication load listed 3.8 gr Unique at 703 fps.


I'd be careful of exceeding the factory duplication load of 3.8grains. This book was written before they coined the term +P loads. 4.1 grains may be in the +P range.

[Oyeboten]

Hi 336a,


Nice to see...this interests me also.


I just got a Mold on it's way, and old '358430' Lyman for the blunt head 195 Grain.


Hi GabbyM,


Hmmmm, I will be seeing if I can find a 45th Lyman then.

My 41st does not show any for the heavier Bullets.

[dubber123]

A 2006 vintage S&W M10-14 that I bought brand new back in Feb 2006.

Thats a pretty strong gun. You should be able to lean on the powder scale a bit, (within reason). My Alliant suppliment has loads listed to 890 fps., still under 18,000 CUP which is VERY mild in a strong gun like the M10. That said, I suspect a pretty long barrel was used in their testing, as my Chrony shows well slower with the heavy boolit loads.

I PERSONALLY would not consider loading the .38 SPL to 25,000 PSI in a strong gun such as yours as being overly adventurous. Just my opinion.

[GabbyM]

Just noticed today Wiljens reloaders reference has a few 195 grain 38 SP loads in it.

[336A]

Thanks folks. I have a copy of the .38 SPL load data from the Lyman 45ht edition. But like gabby said this was printed before the advent of the +P designation. I will continue to look around for more data. But if I have to I guess I will just use the data from the Lyman #45 handbook and work up very cautiously.

Hi, Oyeboten good to see you here. Idon't cast my own unfortunatly. So I will more than likely buy some 190gr WFN bullets from Tennessee Valley Bullets.

[Oyeboten]

Hi 336A,


Casting is fun, satisfying, straightforward, goes fast once into the swing of things, and, of course, allows a Pilgrim such as me or anyone else interested, to have Pure Lead Boolits if they like, and no Postage or Freight to detract from the Shooting Budget.


You should do it..!



Dubber123,


How 'strong' would one suppse an S&W Model 10-6 ( 4 inch ) Bull Barrel to be, in contrast to say, the M10-14..?


Should there be any difference?


25,000 PSI I think is nudging the old .38 ACP territory...( I have always wanted to convert an early S&W K Frame to .38 ACP and full Moon Clips, for plain Lead only, but was not sure how well it would hold up...)

[Landric]

I've done some testing with the Lyman 358430 in .38 Special, and I've been very pleased with the results. Here is some data, remember this works for my gun, as always be cautious and work up. All my results were obtained using a S&W 681-3 .357 Magnum 4", .38 Special brass (mixed headstamps), and Federal SP primers:

3.0 grains of Titegroup, Ave. 640 fps, 18.66 SD

5.6 grains of HS-6, Ave. 690 fps, 19.15 SD

4.3 grains of Trail Boss, Ave. 673 fps, 15.24 SD

6.9 grains of HS-6, Ave. 852 fps, 18.13 SD

9.5 grains of 2400, Ave. 880 fps, 17.06 SD

For anyone interested, don't miss out on our active group buy for a .360 200 grain SWC:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=61896

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to Landric's text, and I'll elaborate.

While most of my experience with Lyman #358430 is in the past, it was all good results. In 38 Special or 357 Magnum, the boolit was accurate from 700-1200 FPS. Despite its blunt RN profile, it anchored jackrabbits in convincing fashion. At lower velocities, exit wounds showed occasional evidence of tipping or cartwheeling--so some of that British Ordnance belief seems to be borne out in the field.

Specific to the original poster's question, 9.0 grains of 2400 with the #358430 gave right at 800 FPS from a 4" S&W Model 64, and the max load (9.5 grains) ran about 840-850 FPS. Zero issues with either load in terms of pressure--lots of radius left on primer cup edges, extraction was easy, and brass was not stressed in any apparent way. CCI 500 or Winchester small pistol primers did the sparking. Again, accuracy was first-rate. A lot of the jackrabbit work cited above was done with the M-64, I should add.

To stray a bit, the #358430 cast as a soft-point and run to 1200 FPS in a 357 Magnum seems like very fine deer medicine to me.

[Oyeboten]

Woo Hoo!


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