Military primer pockets.....UGH!

[3006guns]

I've just spent the better part of the day trying to form 30-06 into 7.7mm Japanese (I have Graf cases too, just wanted to try this). It should be a very easy, even enjoyable process. I cleaned,trimmed, annealed and sized about 30 cases to be used with a light load of Trail Boss...just for fun shooting. Then I tried to seat the primers.

I destroyed just about every primer, usually shearing off one edge leaving a cresent shaped bit of brass jammed between the primer and the pocket. Took tremendous pressure to seat. This was AFTER using an RCBS primer pocket uniforming tool AND a light ream just to make sure. Cases were all WWII vintage, various makers and all crimped. Too bad really, the project looked pretty good until then.

O.K.......who amongst you has a Dillon style pocket swaging tool and how do you like it?

[atr]

that surprises me,,,,Ive used the RCBS swager to remove the crimp on WWII vintage brass very successfully.
About the only thing I did other than use the RCBS tool was to slightly bevel the edge of the primer pocket with a very shart exacto knife.

[ph4570]

I have the Dillon primer pocket swager. I have had it since the mid 80's and have done thousands of pockets. It works very well.

[dk17hmr]

I just use a neck chamfer tool and put a slight bevel on the primer pockets of my 556 brass. Works like a champ for me. Worth a shot on your 7.7 brass. I chuck the chamfer tool in my cordless drill and bevel several hundred peices of 556 while watching TV.

[doubs43]

that surprises me,,,,Ive used the RCBS swager to remove the crimp on WWII vintage brass very successfully.

Same here. I've swaged many hundreds of cases without a problem. The only thing I can think of that would cause the stated problem is not opening the crimps far enough. That can be cured by adjusting the die rod to push the primer pocket deeper onto the button.

[shotman]

You said WW2 vintage try later after about 54 or so the old brass is verrrrrrrry hard and If it was DEN you have brass as hard as steel.

[Hip's Ax]

I bought the Dillon over 10 years ago and I adore it. I've done thousands of cases with it. I did have trouble in the beginning as I didn't have the swage set deep enough and someone clued me in that if you put a quick chamfer on the primer pocket before you swage it works better. I just hit the pocket on the inside chamfer tool on my Trimmate and then swage. Works like a charm for years now. Works as fast as you can move your hands.

[1hole]

"This was AFTER using an RCBS primer pocket uniforming tool AND a light ream just to make sure."

I've been using a Lyman pocket crimp reamer since about '70, it works fine, primers seat as they should,

[snowwolfe]

I destroyed just about every primer, usually shearing off one edge leaving a cresent shaped bit of brass jammed between the primer and the pocket. Took tremendous pressure to seat. This was AFTER using an RCBS primer pocket uniforming tool AND a light ream just to make sure. Cases were all WWII vintage, various makers and all crimped. Too bad really, the project looked pretty good until then.

O.K.......who amongst you has a Dillon style pocket swaging tool and how do you like it?

The RCBS swaging tool is adjustable. I would bet you are not opening up the pocket enough. Should be easy to correct. But the Dillon gets great reviews as well although I have never tried it.

[dragonrider]

I have both Dillon and RCBS pocket swage tools, and they both do the job. I think perhaps you are not going deep enough with the tool.

[flashhole]

There is a big difference between uniforming a primer pocket and swaging it to remove the military crimp. The RCBS swaging tool works very well. Did you swage the primer pockets or just try to cut them?

[3006guns]

I found the problem.....and it had nothing to do with the cases or my technique. I forgot that I loaned my RCBS pocket swager to someone about three months ago. After I posted I went back to the bench and examined it closely. On one side of the swage is a huge flat. It was turned away from me while in the shell holder, so that every time I tried to swage a pocket I was trying to force the deformed metal into the case. The pockets looked o.k. but under a magnifiying glass were sort of an oval shape. No WONDER it was so difficult to seat primers! I was frustrated because this tool has worked very well in the past.

I'll call RCBS tomorrow and get a replacement..........then I'm gonna have a little talk with that guy to find out exactly WHAT he did to my tool, and explain why I'm not going to loan him anything again!

On a happier note, a friend stopped by and bequeathed me five boxes of Norma .303 British brass from his deceased uncle's estate. That helped a bit!

[jhrosier]

I've used the RCBS pocket swaging tool for many thousands of cases, large and small primed.
It does require a heavy duty press like the Rockchucker to get good results.
The most heavily crimped cases may shear the edge of the crimp off into the pocket. A small screwdriver is handy to pick the ring of brass from the bottom of the pocket and scrape the old primer residue from the pocket at the same time.

Jack

[AZ Pete]

I found the problem.....and it had nothing to do with the cases or my technique. I forgot that I loaned my RCBS pocket swager to someone about three months ago. After I posted I went back to the bench and examined it closely. On one side of the swage is a huge flat. It was turned away from me while in the shell holder, so that every time I tried to swage a pocket I was trying to force the deformed metal into the case. The pockets looked o.k. but under a magnifiying glass were sort of an oval shape. No WONDER it was so difficult to seat primers! I was frustrated because this tool has worked very well in the past.

I'll call RCBS tomorrow and get a replacement..........then I'm gonna have a little talk with that guy to find out exactly WHAT he did to my tool, and explain why I'm not going to loan him anything again!

On a happier note, a friend stopped by and bequeathed me five boxes of Norma .303 British brass from his deceased uncle's estate. That helped a bit!

Hard way to treat a friendship. I only have one neighbor that I ever loan tools or reloading equipment to, and no relatives. For all others, I will do the work for them. I find that saves relationships for me.

[Bad Water Bill]

Just a thought. Almost ALL pre 54 brass had corrosive primers. If these cases were not cleaned properly upon first firing I would be VERY hesitant to use them for anything. Even if 30-06 cases cost a dollar each I would find that cheaper than worrying if the next round would detonate or fire.

[wistlepig1]

that surprises me,,,,Ive used the RCBS swager to remove the crimp on WWII vintage brass very successfully.
About the only thing I did other than use the RCBS tool was to slightly bevel the edge of the primer pocket with a very shart exacto knife.

Me to!

[maddog2020]

this is the most practical method I have seen, you of course own a tool for cleaning the case mouth and the primer pocket.
take the rcbs case moth cleaner/deburr tool and flip the case up, you will be looking right into the primer pocker.

that tool you use to deburr and clean the mouth use it to de crimp your primer pockets, 3-4 good twist and you done.

[3006guns]

Bill..Yes, many pre '54 military loads were corrosive...BUT NOT MERCURIC. There's a difference. Mercuric primers began disappearing back in the 1920's with the development of stable, long lived priming compounds. Good thing too, as the mercury would immediately amalgamate with the brass on firing and render it dangerously brittle and weak. I have several very old mercuric primed cases that I keep around just to show people. A gentle squeeze will break the case.

Corrosive, or chlorate primers have an exceedingly long shelf life which is why most militaries used them. When fired, they turn to potassium chloride...kissin' cousin to table salt. This salt is blown through the bore and lodges in every tool mark, waiting to rust the barrel unless removed by plain old water, followed by oil....but it doesn't hurt the brass though.

Virtually all U.S. military brass that I have loaded or formed into something else has given excellent service.

[Lead Fred]

Ive done 1000s of 54-72 LC brass with the RCBS uniformer, with nay problems

I stuffed it in my cordless drill

[Hardcast416taylor]

It was mentioned on a thread somewhere on this site about using a RCBS or Lyman VLD tool for taking the primer crimp out. I now have 2 VLD tools, one for each primer size, that I customised to fit by slowly reducing the nose length till I had the right size.Robert

[chboats]

I had problems with some WCC 41 primer pockets. I first used the RCBS primer pocket swager which got rid of the crimp. I then used a neck chamfer tool to remove some of the ledge that was left from the crimp process. Still had trouble seating primers. They did not catch on the surface of the pocket but required a lot of force to seat the primer deep enough. I discovered that the pockets tappered in toward the bottom of the pocket. Bought a pocket reamer and cut the pockets to straight sides and uniform depths. That finally solved the problem. I'm dot sure it was worth the effort but I hate to throw away brass.

Carl

[mike in co]

It was mentioned on a thread somewhere on this site about using a RCBS or Lyman VLD tool for taking the primer crimp out. I now have 2 VLD tools, one for each primer size, that I customised to fit by slowly reducing the nose length till I had the right size.Robert

cha ching...that is the idea...(lymann)

[Adam10mm]

The Dillon Super Swage is overpriced for what it does. I use a 3/8 inch countersink in a drill. Much cheaper and faster.

[mike in co]

The Dillon Super Swage is overpriced for what it does. I use a 3/8 inch countersink in a drill. Much cheaper and faster.

but no depth control and too wide of a cut....the lyman solves both probelms....

mike in co

[Adam10mm]

Never could tell the difference between depth and width of cut. My pockets look the same if they were swaged via Dillon tool.

[mike in co]

Never could tell the difference between depth and width of cut. My pockets look the same if they were swaged via Dillon tool.

10mm,
a countersink is pointed and cuts on the very end...so yes there is a DEPTH issue. you can hit the flash hole and cut it....some a lot, some none....primer burn could be diff on the other side of the hole.

since you have no depth control the width WILL be different....has to be .

i did not say it will not/did not work, i said it has limitations that the lymann does not have.

mike in co

ps what 10mm do you have ?
i'm looking at an eea witness (999220) full size, 15 plus one( i think) sa/da.... plan is to shoot 200 at 1000 fps......(i started a new thread in pistol) thread, let me know what you think of the 10mm. ( no plastic, want weight, no striker fired...what an external hammer, want double stack)
thanks

[StarMetal]

Talked to some major brass processors back in the olden days on processing lots of 5.56 brass. I was told an 82 degree fluted countersink is that they used. Said to chuck it into a stand drill press and grab a handfull of brass and bump them on the countersink. My friend and I did that and it was fast, worked great....and no Mike the tip didn't touch the flash hole. I reckon if you have a countersink that does a little trip across the grinder wheel can get rid of that tip. The swagers are okay but pitifully slow when you're doing 5 to 10 cases at a time.

[mike in co]

Talked to some major brass processors back in the olden days on processing lots of 5.56 brass. I was told an 82 degree fluted countersink is that they used. Said to chuck it into a stand drill press and grab a handfull of brass and bump them on the countersink. My friend and I did that and it was fast, worked great....and no Mike the tip didn't touch the flash hole. I reckon if you have a countersink that does a little trip across the grinder wheel can get rid of that tip. The swagers are okay but pitifully slow when you're doing 5 to 10 cases at a time.


82degrees takes out a lot of brass that could be hugging your primer. they use the wide angle to get the cut while staying away from the bottom of the pocket.

again it may work/did work...but the lymann is the cats meow.....
in small you do nothing but use it as is....narrow angle, self guiding, never cuts the bottom of the pocket, minimal brass removal.
in large one does need to grind the nose to make it work, but once done...its simple, again self guiding, minimal brass removal and quick......


ask someone that has done it( see the guy above).......