Swedish m/96 - KaBoom!

[Dutchman]

These photos just in tonight from one of my Swedish Mauser spies in England. The rifle is in a gunshop. The apparent cause was a double charge of fast pistol powder.

This is one of the worst I've seen. It must've been really impressive when he pulled the trigger. I don't know if the shooter was hurt but I'll try and find out.

http://images53.fotki.com/v440/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0277cre-vi.jpg

http://images56.fotki.com/v542/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0276re-vi.jpg

http://images20.fotki.com/v534/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0275re-vi.jpg

http://images20.fotki.com/v528/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0273re-vi.jpg

http://images110.fotki.com/v565/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0272re-vi.jpg

http://images53.fotki.com/v440/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0272bre-vi.jpg

[philthephlier]

It would be a miracle if the shooter was not injured. Only question in my mind is how badly. Reminds me of the January incident here in Kalifornia where a young man was hammering on the bolt of his 50 BMG because it wouldn't close on his reloads. He lost his arm up to his elbow when it went off. The investigation could not turn up a single piece of the brass case. Never take common sense for granted!

[PAT303]

We had one go bang here in Aus last year,the owner arc welded a bridge mount on because he didn't want to spend $100 getting it tapped by a 'smith,it went around for ages and we had ''experts'' coming out of the woodwork saying the '96 was dangerous because it didn't have the third lug etc.There is no law against foolishness. Pat

[Cap'n Morgan]

Did the firing pin stay in one piece? Mine didn't - and I have the scars to prove it :-?

[3006guns]

Looks like many salvagable parts (except the receiver of course). I can't make out what is going on with the breech. Is that a piece of cartridge brass, or was the actual barrel steel shattered?

[StarMetal]

Impressive the power that is in smokeless powder. Hope the fellow is alright.

[Bloodman14]

It appears that the case is STILL in the chamber, with the head blown off!

[Three44s]

A fine rifle has to die because of stupidity ...... it's a shame!


Three 44s

[StarMetal]

A fine rifle has to die because of stupidity ...... it's a shame!


Three 44s

Sounds like an accident to me, not stupidity. Haven't you ever made a reloading error?

[felix]

It is amazing how strong the Russie MN guns are as exhibited by the Jumptrap experiments. Did he not use a full case of BE and only got something in the order of 0.001 expansion? ... felix

[mtgrs737]

I have two Swedish Mausers that I only shoot cast boolits in and I use 11grs. of Unique as a standard load. I always check levels in the case visually and weigh a few thrown charges as I load a batch. This is a wake up call for me, I will be keeping watch on my powder levels even more closely now!!!

Thanks for posting the thread and pictures!

[blastit37]

That failure did not result from 1 massive overload. The presence of "beach marks" emanating from the light colored area with black specks in it indicate several loads applied to the receiver after a fatigue crack initiated in that area. There are also beach marks moving down the receiver from the same location. The black specks could indicate an area of contamination in the steel forging which would be the initiation of the original fatigue cracks. A microscopic examination of that area would be necessary to identify the exact cause and location of the fatigue initiation point. A massive overload failure caused by 1 overcharged round would show a failure surface like that of the overload failure part of the receiver to the left of the beach marks all the way across the surface. The receiver had several loads applied to it after the massive overload or several heavy overloads applied in succession. I know this because in my job as a Aerospace Engineer for the USAF I have analyzed many such failures.

[mroliver77]

it looks to me as though this is not a "fresh" kaboomster. It appears that it has been laying around a while as the brass looks corroded some and the rust and trash in the threads and broken part of the receiver.It is also too oily. Broken wood looks aged.
I am amazed that bolt is open! It looks as though bolt stop/ejector stopped it from coming all the way out. I would have hated to have my face there!!
Jay

[StarMetal]

It is amazing how strong the Russie MN guns are as exhibited by the Jumptrap experiments. Did he not use a full case of BE and only got something in the order of 0.001 expansion? ... felix

Jump kept using full cases of various rifle powders. He got to where he could just prime the case, swoop it through the powder full, seat the bullet and shoot. He surmised you could do that with just about any normal speed powder, such as from 4198 up. He did say the faster ones did lock up the bolt but was able to open it. I said quit fooling with it and do the Bullseye test. He said he didn't fill the case all the way, but all it did was lock the bolt up and swell the chamber area a little. He did tell me later on that the case was steel because I kept saying I was amazed the case didn't let go. I got the barrel off him and it's very hard to see the swell in the chamber area. I gained new respect for the Mosin after that.

[Larry Gibson]

I have two Swedish Mausers that I only shoot cast boolits in and I use 11grs. of Unique as a standard load. I always check levels in the case visually and weigh a few thrown charges as I load a batch. This is a wake up call for me, I will be keeping watch on my powder levels even more closely now!!!

Thanks for posting the thread and pictures!

FYI;

I also use 11 gr Unique under a 266455 130 gr Lovern Lyman cast bullet. Less than 11 gr of Unique give very erratic accuracy and inconsistent ignition. In PMC cases with Remington 9 1/2 primers that load produces 1580 fps with 10 shots many times in 1.5" at 100 yards. The SD of the 10 shots most often is a single digit and the ES is always under 25 fps. The PMAP (Maximum Average Pressure) hovers around 29.900 psi(M43) with a SD of around 400 psi and the ES around 800 psi. That is very uniform internal ballistics BTW. Again, as you say, an excellent load but one with which it is easy to double charge. My loading technique with such loads is to use a powder thrower (M55 Lyman) picking up empy primed cases out of a box (Dillon loading bins or cigar boxes), throwing the powder charge into the case and then setting the charged case into a loading tray. ANY case then in a loading tray has powder in it. I always double check visually anyway.

Larry Gibson

[Multigunner]

Looks like many salvagable parts (except the receiver of course). I can't make out what is going on with the breech. Is that a piece of cartridge brass, or was the actual barrel steel shattered?

Looks to me like every action part except possibly the trigger is compromised. With stock plit its likely the only salvagable parts would be bands and buttplate, plus a few screws.

[mtgrs737]

Thanks for the info Larry! It sounds like I am on the right track.

[runfiverun]

i'm amazed at the bolt face.
that does look like an issue waiting to happen.
rust on the threads,etc.
i don't think the bolt come straight back either.
it looks up and down.

[bdutro]

I know there are lots and lots of guys who like Unique, Red Dot and Bullseye type powders but is it really worth the couple-three pennies per shot when you could run a 50%+ charge density with a slower powder and keep these kinds of events from happening?

I like full cases.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

These events will not stop happening until guns are legislated away. That is where that arguement goes.

Don't even think it !

Idiots choke to death on ham sandwiches

Ham sandwiches or double charges, everyone deserves the fruits of their labors. I'm tired of paying for the selfish idiots mountain climbing in the showstorm, blowing themselves up with a gun, or duplicating Le Mans just down the street. These are not the risks of a courageous deed of necessity , just stupidity.

I have frequently left the range when firearms stupidity arrives there.

BvT

[dualsport]

That gun doesn't look that bad to me, is it for sale? A little JB and some piano wire... good as new. You guys are over reacting, mine blow up all the time, hasn't affected me one bit.

[357maximum]

That gun doesn't look that bad to me, is it for sale? A little JB and some piano wire... good as new. You guys are over reacting, mine blow up all the time, hasn't affected me one bit.

I just wrap mine in several layers of duct tape before i try really really hot handloads...it keeps the parts from going too far and far easier to find for reuse.:kidding::kidding:

The local shop here has a Chilean 95 in about the same condition. It WAS one of the prettiest quilted maple sporters in 6.5X55 until it's new owner (an ignorant heir) decided to try handloading (first time) to get more "ZIP". The heir only had some small injuries to his left forearm and hand. The only thing I know about the handload is that one of the 4198's was used for his full out efforts and it was his 3rd or 4th shot with that load. The floorplate was never located but all the rest of the parts are in a box of splinters awaiting display.

[closey]

Anymore info on this one Dutchman?

Looks like traces of some kind of case filler here.

http://images53.fotki.com/v440/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSC_0272bre-vi.jpg

[rhbrink]

It does look like filler in there, was wondering if it would be possible to chamber something like a .308 in a 6.5 Swede? I saw a new Browning A-Bolt a while back that was a 25-06 that someone chambered a .308 in and looked a lot like this mess, the worst thing that happened to the shooter was the scope broke into two pieces and the eyepiece came back and put a permanent dent in the bridge of his nose and a couple of seriously black eyes.

[Char-Gar]

Accident vs. Stupidity/Negligence


Was it an accident or stupidity. I don't like the term stupidity, as it implies some sort of inherent condition. That may or may not be the case, but I don't know that fellow who loaded the ammo, so I can't say.

An accident is something that happens that is not the fault of the person on the receiving end. Negligence implies the person on the receiving end did something to contribute to his difficulty.

The standard definition of negligence is: What would a reasonable prudent handloader to under the same or similar circumstances. Clearly the shooter was negligent and the kaboom was not the result of an accident.

[Multigunner]

Looks like a lot of grease or cosmoline around the breech. Could this have been another instance of someone thinking they could just blow the grease out?
Hatcher's notebook mentions a few instances of springfields being damaged or destroyed by shooters trying to fire rifles that were still packed with cosmoline.

I've had to stop a couple of tyros from trying that in the past. Took awhile but I impressed on them that you just don't blast out bore obstructions, and a barrel full of grease would not make a bullet go faster.
After a couple of such instances I began to wonder if a shooters education program certificate shouldn't be required before a gun is sold.
I got my NRA safe hunter patch in the Boy Scouts at an early age, so it never occured to me that to many the workings of firearms is a complete mystery.

[Trey45]

Reminds me of the January incident here in Kalifornia where a young man was hammering on the bolt of his 50 BMG because it wouldn't close on his reloads. He lost his arm up to his elbow when it went off.

Sorry, but not one word of this is true. Read this post from the mans own father on calguns if you would like to see the truth of the matter.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3627398

[Multigunner]

Sorry, but not one word of this is true. Read this post from the mans own father on calguns if you would like to see the truth of the matter.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3627398

Sounds like he very nearly lost a hand if not the arm.
As the young man's father says no hammer was used the hand only beng used to push the bolt forwards.
Bad break.

A much better documented case was the detonation of a hangfire when the shooter opened the breech of his No.1 rifle.
I'd been telling people that the high percentage of hangfires from 60's POF ammunition made it a poor investment.
I've had many momentary hangfires and about 5% misfires using POF, I no longer buy old milsurp .303 at all .
The Shooter in that case waited awhile before opening the bolt, and the cartridge then detonated ripping his thumb up badly with quite a bit of lesh torn away. He posted photos of the entire ordeal at the hospital and closeups of damage to the rifle.
Not long before that a fellow had posted that when he had a misfire at the range he'd slip it in his shirt pocket before the range officer saw it. I wonder what would happen if a .303 detonated in someones shirt pocket?

[Trey45]

I just reread the post, I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but I don't see anything there that says he very nearly lost a hand if not an arm, I see where he had 4 broken bones and some ligament damage. I've seen that much damage done in industrial accidents without loss of appendage.

This is how internet rumors get started......

[Multigunner]

I just reread the post, I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but I don't see anything there that says he very nearly lost a hand if not an arm, I see where he had 4 broken bones and some ligament damage. I've seen that much damage done in industrial accidents without loss of appendage.

This is how internet rumors get started......


Sunday a surgeon spent 2.5 hrs working to do hopefully the best work available to repair the damage. My Son, according to the surgeon had four broken bones and some ligament damage to his left hand, the one he was holding the gun with just in front of the chamber.
From personal experiance, damage to my hand was far less extensive and I very nearly lost it, and have permanent deformation of the hand and loss of motor control.
I type with the edge of the tip of the middle finger with it braced by the index finger. It took more than twenty years before I could shoot with my right hand again, so to me it sounds like he very nearly lost his hand and for that matter very well might lose it anyway.
High pressure superheated gases cutting and blasting away flesh is a serious injury, and I'd be suprised if they did not have to carve away a lot of mortified flesh either then or within days.

To give you an idea
http://home.comcast.net/~wnor/lesson5palmofhand.htm

From the description all four major bones of the body of the hand (the metacarpals)were broken.
They cut my hand from stem to stern and used clamps to hold the bone fragments together while a steel wire was driven lengthwise using a sort of airgun. Sounds simple but they had to cut through the main tendon strap that runs across the hand and through the muscles.. Infection set in when the steel pin migrated out through the knuckle. Nerve damage was mostly due to infection. I can move all fingers now but have little strength in any part of the hand and even turning a doorknob with more than regular force can cause agonizing pain and temporary paralysis that can last for hours.
If something requires 2 1/2 hours of surgery to repair then if prompt medical care had not been available loss of the limb or permanent crippling injury would have been likely.

[quasi]

1942 dated reciever?

[1874Sharps]

Blastit37,

That was a very interesting analysis of the evidence! Although the technical stuff was way over my head. I sure hope the poor guy who was shooting the rifle is not wearing a steel mustache.

[Bret4207]

That failure did not result from 1 massive overload. The presence of "beach marks" emanating from the light colored area with black specks in it indicate several loads applied to the receiver after a fatigue crack initiated in that area. There are also beach marks moving down the receiver from the same location. The black specks could indicate an area of contamination in the steel forging which would be the initiation of the original fatigue cracks. A microscopic examination of that area would be necessary to identify the exact cause and location of the fatigue initiation point. A massive overload failure caused by 1 overcharged round would show a failure surface like that of the overload failure part of the receiver to the left of the beach marks all the way across the surface. The receiver had several loads applied to it after the massive overload or several heavy overloads applied in succession. I know this because in my job as a Aerospace Engineer for the USAF I have analyzed many such failures.

I'm no engineer, but it looks like that to me too based on my breaking lots of stuff through the years.

[Multigunner]

My nephew runs a custom car parts service, I'll check on whether he can get access to the equipment used to test for cracks.

IIRC
Metal that flexs as a normal part of its function usually doesn't crack while under compression, but when pressure is relieved. Springs fracture on the relief stroke, yet breaks on the next compression stroke.
Pressure on a vessel on the other hand can be blown out immediately if pressure exceeds elastic strength. But its more likely to crack along a weakness in crystaline structure first then blow out the next time it is subjected to pressure.

They found that exposure to nitrate compounds under pressure with induce accelerated metal fratigue in iron or mild steel vessels or tanks, leading to sudden and complete failure.
Smokeless powders are heavy on nitrates and double base powders produce Nitric acid and Nitrious acid as products of combustion.

[bkbville]

It is amazing how strong the Russie MN guns are as exhibited by the Jumptrap experiments. Did he not use a full case of BE and only got something in the order of 0.001 expansion? ... felix

Felix - is that someplace in this forume?

[felix]

Yes, several years ago. ... felix

[Multigunner]

A massive overload that doesn't burst a receiver or blow out a bolt can still produce radial fractures in the chamber or throat of the barrel and the barrel might later split when firing a standard pressure round.
Barrels that split at the chamber can split the receiver ring by mechanical forces without gas ever touching the ring.

[blastit37]

You are right, Multigunner. The loads on the barrel and the receiver screwed into it are just like those on a bottle of compressed gas except they are spike loads, not contentious. They are called hoop stresses and they cause a tensile load on the receiver which is trying to pull the receiver apart. Most receiver designs can stand really high loads before rupturing as evidence by the proof loads used to qualify the gun, however, if a flaw exists in the metal such as an inclusion or a deep scratch, a point load will develop and all stress will be concentrated at that point. A crack can then start and will grow outward through the metal in steps as illustrated by the beach marks (beach marks got named from the marks left by the receding tide on a sandy ocean beach). When the last load is applied, the rest of the receiver fails due to overoload and the rest of the crack has no beach marks. Counting the beach marks will give an indication of about how many loads were applied after the crack initiated to failure. A massive overload does not have to occur to cause a fatigue crack to initiate, normal loads can cause it to start if a stress riser (inclusion or scratch) is present. The fatigue crack could have been present and the overcharge resulted in the final failure which a non-cracked receiver could have stood up to. The highest stresses are the sheer on the bolt locking lugs which should fail before the receiver fails. Sheer strength of steel is much less than tensile strength. Sorry to get so wordy.

[Multigunner]

I remember a friend showing me the bolt of an early Carl Gustave M96 he'd purchased. The bolt had a crack in the point of the V of the firing pin retraction cam cut out.
That crack in itself was not likely to be a danger, but it indicated that something could be seriously wrong with the heat treatment of that bolt.

[Brithunter]

No photos but at my local gunshop is a Tikka T3 reciever that has been blown apart. yes from an idot using the wrong powder and yes he is an idiot as he shoots at the club i belong to so i try to avoid him as much as is possible. It's not the first gun he has blown up either.

Sadly except for a small sliver of steel in his forehead he escaped unscathed. I say sadly as perhaps more serious injury would finally teach him as nothign else has done so.

Oh the Police are insistign that the action be de-activated !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The front ring is split wide open and the rails cracked yep he used pistol powder for soe reason and as he freely admits a full charge of it.