Can Anything Be Done With Blanks?

[Gray Fox]

I have been offered several K of 7.62 and 5.56 mm blanks FREE in 20 round boxes. Is there anything that could be done with them? Could the crimped ends be cut off, the powder discarded (I think I have read somewhere here this powder is not good for traditional loads--?) and then the primed brass be trimmed to normal "trim to" dimensions? I know it would be labor intensive if possible at all, but given the current price of new brass and primers I hope something is possible. All comments will be appreciated.

[Shiloh]

You're right about the powder. Way to fast for ANY load.
I was told that the crimp folds would not take being sized and loaded. I have no personal experience with this though.

Shiloh

[koehn,jim]

I have reloaded several hundred 06 blanks and had very good luck with case life. I removed the powder and soaked the case in liguid than decapped them and reamed the primer pocket. I use a large phillips screw driver to open the end size and trim. I use them for cast loads because many are seconds . The canadian seem to work the best. Good luck.

[jhrosier]

I have formed several hundred 300 Whisper cases from 5.56 blanks.
They could also be used for .221 Fireball.
The 7.62 blanks might be long enough to make .300 Savage after the crimp was cut off.
Aside from that, either would be good noisemakers for Independance Day.

Jack

[Doc1]

Several years ago I was given a few hundred 7.62 NATO Israeli "blanks." These blanks had wooden bullets, contained extremely fast (by burn test) powder and were boxer-primed. Unlike normal blanks, because of the wooden bullet, they had uncrimped necks.

Having heard many stories that blanks were often made from brass seconds, I was reluctant to load these with j-words, but they seemed to be good candidates for low pressure cast loads and I hated to waste them. I have reloaded all of these cases several times (with cast boolits) and have had no difficulty or failures.

Your mileage may vary, this is NOT a recommendation of any sort. It's just my own personal experience with one particular lot of blanks.

EDITED TO ADD: I did NOT use the powder in these blanks for any sort of reloading! The stuff is extremely fast and will likely kaboom even a pistol round. Save the brass: Toss the powder.


Best regards
Doc

[Gray Fox]

These are all US military blanks, would that make any difference?

[Larry Gibson]

These are all US military blanks, would that make any difference?

US 7.62 and 5.56 blanks are not made from "seconds". Some '006 blanks were. Note that 7.62 and 5.56 blanks have case mouths beyond the case mouths. How would they know they were "seconds" or defective cases as they were made as blanks to begin with. The '06 blanks have a regular case length and the one used for blanks simply have crimped case mouths. 7.62 and 5.56 cases are made longer to feed through automatic weapons. I've use 7.62 and 5.56 blank cases for cast bullet and regular loads in .308W and .222 and .223 ammo without problem. Just do good conversion work and then work up the loads in them watching for any pressure problems as one always should anyways.

Larry Gibson

[Gee_Wizz01]

I would not use the 7.62 or the .223 blanks for anything other than their designed purpose. Many years ago I worked in weapons testing and had access to to the engineers at the ammo depots and OEM's, I asked several of them the same question and was told by all them that the brass was not safe to use for normal shooting with bullets. Many times the brass did not meet specs for normal ammo and was relegated for use with blanks. In my opinion it is not worth the risk especially when you consider that it could damage an expensive firearm.

G

[Farmall 1066]

Buddy made a golf ball launcher for his Yugo SKS, to take the place of the grenade launcher!
Great way to use up those blanks.

[madsenshooter]

Boy, I could have some fun with that, throwing the golf balls I find in my yard back onto the course! Under cover of darkness of course, for the morning crowd to weed through to find their ball.

[beagle]

I've always found that military blanks make great wasp nest blasters. The old .30/06 blanks especially. They'll take one out big as a softball. Poof! No wasps, no nest.....just confetti.

I've used .30/06 blanks for reloading cast back in the old days when the M1 and BMGs were standard issue and experienced reasonable results. The crimp was a bear to iron out and I quickly tired of that business.

The 7.62 NATO blanks can be used for .45 ACP shot loads for the M1911A1 using the RCBS kit for that purpose.

The 5.56MM stuff I haven't found a use for yet./beagle

[Shiloh]

Buddy made a golf ball launcher for his Yugo SKS, to take the place of the grenade launcher!
Great way to use up those blanks.

We need more details about this. :bigsmyl2:

Shiloh

[BruceB]

Agree with Larry Gibson. The 7.62/5.56 blanks with the nose formed and crimped at full cartridge length are manufactured from the start for that purpose. They are not "seconds" in any way.

I don't know if the US forces use 9mm blanks, as they would seem to be of very little use in the issue pistols. However, when we used the 9mm Sterling SMG in the Canadian Army, the guns were issued with a blank-firing adaptor and blanks were used extensively. These 9mm blanks were the full length of a "live" 9mm round and had a rosette crimp closure.

The 9mm blanks only had to be cut-off at the base of the rosette crimp to make very functional 7.63 Mauser/7.62 Tokarev cases, I used many of them in my Broomhandle. If they were obtained in unfired condition, they could either be fired in the Mauser/Tokarev or cut before firing, thus saving the live primer for the first go.

Converting cartridge-length blanks to normal use seems like a lot of work, given that good supplies of once-fired 7.62/5.56 brass are still available. I'd be inclined to save the blanks for a rainy day. Of course, "free" is a compelling argument for putting them to use...

[fryboy]

one can reform/resize to anything shorter with ease , the ones i have have long noses and cardboard crimped in the end ( came on links no rosette crimp) they are also fairly thick and require neck turning ( ie; a pita to mess with) but polished and put back on the links they make a great decoration lolz

[scb]

Agree with Larry Gibson. The 7.62/5.56 blanks with the nose formed and crimped at full cartridge length are manufactured from the start for that purpose. They are not "seconds" in any way.


I agree they are purposely built a blanks. So why would one put the same "structural integrity" of a case meant to contain 50-60,000 psi into one that is meant to contain very little pressure. IF I was going to do this I would complete all the "conversion" work on 50 cases. Then first I'd weight them and get an average weight and see what the maximum deviation was. Then I'd check the case volume of all of them using water. Again getting the average and figuring what the maximum deviation was. Then I'd repeat the process with regular (non blank) cartridges and compare the two. None of this of course takes in account weather or not the blank cases were properly heat treated. Myself I'll stay away from blanks.

[fatelk]

I've tinkered with converting blanks in the past. Cutting, trimming, reaming or neck turning; all a pain. I have a whole bunch of 7.62 US blanks someone gave me. One of these days I'll dump the powder, pop out the primers, and turn them in for scrap.

I also have a whole bunch of 7.62x54R blanks, steel case stuff. Unlike US blanks, these are LOUD. I know this sounds dumb, but just to see if it would work I dropped a piece of #0 buckshot in the chamber and put a blank behind it. It worked OK with no sign whatsoever of high pressure.

Now before I get flamed, I have to say I know (now) that you're never supposed to use a projectile in front of this super-fast burning blank powder. I'm guessing that the reason I was able to get away with it was because a .312 round ball is very light and has an extremely small bearing surface in the bore of a worn-out Mosin Nagant. Accuracy was so-so; maybe 7"+ at 100 yards, probably good enough for squirrels or rabbits at close range.

[Beekeeper]

I'm with Shiloh there Farmall1066.
How about some more info on the golf ball launcher.
Maybe some line drawings and such.
Seems to me to be a worthwhile project.


Jim

[BerdanIII]

Add another for Mr. Gibson. I have cut down and used 7.62x51mm blanks (but NOT the powder) for cast loads with no trouble. I have a book on the 7.62mm NATO round; I'll see if it has any data on the pressure levels of blanks vs. ball ammo. I know that the blue plastic-cased training ammo made with integral bullets operates at a pretty respectable pressure.

[bob208]

i have cut down 06 blanks to make 7.65 mauser cases with out any problems.

[burr7870]

A friend gave me 200 of these that I cut off and am using for 300 whisper subsonic loads. I will not use them for full house loads but for subsonics they seem fine so far.

[Dutchman]

U.S. Blank, Model 1909 were the ones made from rejects off the ammunition line. This one below is a good example of one that was damaged and then made into a m/1909 blank.

I has a rounded groove in it partially around the mid-section. Fairly deep. It got caught on something that rotated it around and imprinted the groove.

While I've seen full powered loads that used m/1909 Blank cases it's really not a good idea as you don't know what the defect was if it's not obvious. It could be something to do with the pickling process that weakened the brass. Is it really worth it?

http://images52.fotki.com/v1563/photos/2/28344/3886627/blank2_tif7836800848634078941-vi.jpg

[BerdanIII]

7.92x57mm Platzpatrone 33 - 15.4 grains of Nz.Pl.Patr.R.P. - maximum 16,675 psi in brass case, 20,300 psi in steel case (Ringbuch der Infanteriemunition, Vol. 1, 5-1-1941).

"Prior to the introduction of steel cases and in order to conserve on brass consumption, it was common practice to use once fired brass for reloading into blank ammunition. A brass case was graded and given an identifying mark of a knurled ring around the case body. This marking was known as a "Sorte ring" and cases were loaded twice in this manner…When the steel case was introduced as a substitute for brass, any further need for "Sorte Ringe" disappeared. Rejects from normal steel case production and increased production in general offered a ready supply for blank ammunition, and millions of cases per month were allocated for just this purpose." German 7,9 mm Military Ammunition 1888 - 1945

Blank, Cal. .30, M1909 - "Second-grade cases may be used in the assembly of blank ammunition." (Catalog of Standard Ordnance Items, 1944)

"In the manufacture of these blank cartridges, cases are used which have been fired, or which have slight defects, rendering them unsuitable for use in ball cartridges." (Description and Rules for the Management of the U. S. Magazine Rifle Model 1903, Caliber .30)

There was no information on the pressure produced by 7.62x51mm NATO blanks in The Military Cartridges Caliber 7.62x51 mm NATO, their development and variants. There is nothing regarding the use of second-class or sub-standard material for blank manufacture. The plastic training cartridge DM18 with its 10.8-grain bullet develops a maximum pressure of 21,334 psi.

Converting 7.62 NATO Blanks, R.G. Ahlefeld, Handloader No. 27, Sept.-Oct. 1970 describes the process of turning blanks into .243 WCF cases. Neck-reaming was necessary to reduce neck wall thickness and the converted blanks weighed 181.0 grains to the commercial Winchester case's 177.80 grains.

[3006guns]

Even though it's been brought up, I have to kick in my two bits worth.......DISCARD THE POWDER! It has absolutely NO value in bulleted ammo, so don't even think about it. Concentrate on saving the brass and consider it a great gift.

[acemedic13]

we drop a q-tip with one end of it peeled off in the barell, and then put a blank in behind it. It will kill a rat at about 10 feet and is hell on dogs and cats too. In panama we used to dump some of the powder out and load a cleaning rod in there, it would make short work of those damned monkeys that rasied hell on our A.O.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING DOING THIS...IT IS STUPID AND YOU CAN GET HURT!!!

About the golf ball launcher, you can buy them at cheaperthandirt.com for your AR-15 all day long. I have one here, its a hoot!

[coleman]

Golf ball launcher, Ohh boy what fun. made one for my cetme. online metals has dom tubing 1.875 x .095 wall 1.685 id. about $9.44 per foot. made a adaptor for the threads and welded it to the tubing. golf ball dia 1.685 had some tight some loose shot both no problems. got 308 german blanks(dans ammo) about $50 k golf balls of flebay about 10c. Been shooting a old demo car it will leave a dent about 3/8" deep or more, have had them split about half way thru. i wont shoot targets staight on as the golf ball my bounce back and not have time to duck as fast as they fly out. shooting up in the sky they will just about go out of eyesight. if you dont have a big open area to shoot em just plan on loosing at least half of the golf balls or miore. Be safe coleman

[Dollar Bill]

FWIW, I asked the same question on the CBA forum and Ed Harris was kind enough to reply: "Blank cases are not subject to the same quality controls or inspection standards as service ammunition, so cups having major or even critical category defects such as intermediate draw scratches, nonmetallic inclusions or laminations routinely get through. I would not attempt to load blank cases for any bulleted ammunition.

The best thing you can do with fired blank cases is sell them for scrap."

For those of you who are not familiar with Mr. Harris, it's my understanding he was chief engineer at Ruger after working in the Ordnance Dept. I generally take his advice as gospel, as he is the most knowledgeable shooter I have ever conversed with.

[bmac10]

I have read where people use @ 5grains of blank powder with a 150GR 30 cal lead bullet fr @ 1000 f/s loads - in "regular" cartridges, not the blank cartridge

[eb in oregon]

I at one time made a mess of 7.62x25 cases out of 5.56 blank cases. Standard cases were hard to find at that time (Starline has them now as do others) and I was loath to use up my standard 5.56 cases.

They work fine, and they have been reloaded multiple times.

eb