Mold for Winchester M94 38/55 and pet loads

[jason]

I am new to casting and would appreciate some advice on picking out a mold for making 38/55 boolits. The rifle is a Winchester Mod 94 carbine built in the early to mid 1920s. The bore is in great shape. The only rounds I have ever fired in it are 255 gr. Winchester factory loads, which shot pretty well. From my research I have learned that the bore diameters can vary quite a lot. I won't be able to slug the bore for a few weeks but I plan on doing so. I do plan on hunting whitetail with it this fall, so I would like to cast . It's a very special gun to me and has been passed down in my family - I got it from my grandfather when I was just a kid.

I would love to hear any recommendations anyone might have for a mold and your favorite loads that would be suitable for a rifle of this vintage.

Thanks,
Jason

[jtaylor1960]

The RCBS 37-250-GC is excellent providing you can get a diameter that will fit your gun.Also BRP in the Vendors area on this forum has a few nice designs.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I have had good results with my old Lyman 375248.
What you want to be sure of is the throat diameter of your rifle. My 1903 version is right about .380. I know I was NOT down sizing my as cast using WW to keep the diameter fatter.
I used valve grinding compound on that mold and it seems (trusting memrory here) that the boolits dropped at .381 with WW.
I used Unique 11- 12 grains and 1680 and 5744. My barrel on that rifle is not pristine but it would shoot a regular 2" at 50-70 yards and that was good enough for my needs.
I also tried filling the cases with COW so the bolit would compress it about 1/8" which did improve groups a tad. But it was not really needed for the ground hogs or coyotes I try to pop at 50 yards and less.

[Catshooter]

jason,

Welcome to the forum.

I use a Win 94 in .38-55 for silhouette. The barrel has never had a jacketed bullet down it. I've tried both of Lyman's current offerings, but prefer the heavier 375449. My mould drops at .3795 and that is also the bore diameter. I thought sure it would lead but it doesn't.

I use AA2230 under it and run the boolits at just over 1850 fps.

If you want, send me a boolit you've pushed through your bore and I'll measure it for you. Private message me or email at Catshooter at MSN dot com.


Cat

[NickSS]

I got a 1913 vintage Winchester light rifle in 38-55 and to get it to shoot I had to size my boolits to .379 (larger might be better but that is the size of my as cast Lyman 250 gr fp boolits so I use the die to wipe on the lube. My rifle will print 4 to 5 inch groups at 200 yards with ease using that bullet at 18 gr of AA 5744. This is a BP velocity load that shoots extremely well in all 4 38-55s that I own.

[jason]

Thanks to all for all the responses. These ideas give me a good place to start.

What kind of velocities should I push toward? The gun is old but is in excellent condition.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Any velocity you desire and your shoulder can maintain.
The old black powder load scooted along at about 1250.... Seemed to kill alot of critters just fine.
A 250 grain + boolit at 1500 fps will hurt permanently any critter it hits correctly.
Up that to 1700 fps and there isnot many critters on this earth that will walk away. If you have a curved buttplate you just enterd the pain zone in a T-shirt.
Then if your game and you do not have pressure prblems up it to 1800fps with a GC boolit and decide if you really need more fun than that.
Me... I run mine 38-55´s at 1500- 1650 and do not worry about more power. If that is needed I get out a 45-70.

[Buckshot]

.............I'd suggest 2 Saeco moulds right off the bat. They're both tapered FN designs with a plain base. Both drop from the mould at .381" (common WW) on the wide base band. One is the 225gr and the other is a 255gr version, or a 'stretched' 225gr :-)

http://www.fototime.com/47DD87E404FADAE/standard.jpg

This is my 1893 Marlin, made in 1906. I shoots both the above designs very well, and with them being tumble lubed only, and unsized. It will also shoot the Lee boolit design, but I have to cast it a bit harder. My favorite all around load for the rifle is 16.0 grs of 2400 and the 225gr Saeco.

.............Buckshot

[45 2.1]

BRP has a couple of molds the right size here:
http://www.brp.castpics.net/R1.html

[ammohead]

I use Lee's 255 gr bevel base but I took the bevel off to make it a 258 gr plain base. I size to .379 for my late model 94 legacy and charge with 17.5 gr of surplus SR4759.

ammohead

[jason]

Thanks for all the good information. After researching this forum I think I am going to persuaded to try one of BRPs molds - also the Lee (at that price I figure it is worth a shot).

[KirkD]

I like ammohead's idea for a plain base bullet. I couldn't find a plain base mould, so I ordered one from LBT that drops them around .383 and I size them down from there

[Jon K]

jason,

Before you order anything....slug the bore and check the chamber size....O.D & Length. Fit the Boolit to the gun! This may require opening up the chamber a little, or using thin wall brass(Win=.010" wall thickness/Starline= .006 wall thickness").
Make sure everything fits.....and you'll have a good shooter. 38-55 is my favorite for a levergun.

Good Luck,
Jon

[jason]

Thanks Jon. I think I Starline brass is going to be the way to go from what I have read.

[six_gun]

The only advice that will do you any good is to slug your bore first. 38-55s have a reputation for having different size bores. I have seen from .375 to .380 and if you don't know what it is you don't know what to buy. Size to .001 over and it should shoot good. Some ready made boolits may work good also. Laser Cast makes them different sizes and I'm sure some of the others do too.

Just for the record. My Lee mould puts them out at .382 and I size to .380 and shoot that over 16gr of 2400 for about 1600 fps and 4 inch groups at 200 yards.

Sixgun

[scrapcan]

I have been using the 375449 in my early 1900 vintage 94 rifle. It does well with both a gc installed and without.

another fun side trip is to paper patch some 38 pistol bullets. Against common wisdom, with 3 wraps of paper, they shot very well at 100 yards and were zippers. They were a pain to do so now I jsut shoot the big lumbering hunk of lead.

[Aggie Desperado]

Absolutely you need to slug the bore to determine proper bullet diameter before you do anything else.

You might also try Buffalo Arms as a source of custom molds. I have a Marlin 336 CB in 38-55 and use a Buffalo Arms custom 255 grain mold that casts 0.381. The rifle loves it and with 46 grains Goex 2F Express black powder will shoot into 1.5 MOA at 1310 fps muzzle velocity.

[jason]

Thanks for all the good information. I now have a Lyman #375296 mold that I got as part of a trade. Hopefully it will drop a large enough boolit. (I won't know until I can get my bore slugged when I get the rifle back. I let my brother, who lives in upstate NY, use the rifle to kill a deer last fall and he still has it. He said the deer dropped in its tracks using a standard factory load. Now his wife wants to shoot a bear with it during a spring hunt. I obliged but I am getting less patient now that I have gotten into casting.)

On another note - as part of that trade I got a set of old Lyman 38-55 reloading dies. The box says they were for the Tru-line Jr. press. They are thinner in diameter (like the ones for the 310 loading tool) and I am told you can get an adapter to make them fit in a standard press. Are they worth it or should I just spring for new dies? I have heard good reviews on the RCBS cowboy dies.

[excess650]

I use the Lyman 375449 (280gr)sized in a .378 sizer. Loads that have shot very accurately were 26gr Reloader 7, 28-30gr AA2015, and 32gr AA2200 in WW cases and WW primers. My preference on these powders is AA2015 because the pressures seem more linear than RX7. AA2200 is a surplus 7.62x39 powder that you may have difficulty locating. These are not hot loads, but not wimpy BP level loads either.

[Pepe Ray]

Hi Jason;
Re; the Lyman 5/8" dies. Hang on to them. They provide dimensions more in keeping with an old BP ctg. than most of the newer 7/8X14 dies. Some day you may find a set of 'nut cracker' handles to round out a B.O.B. outfit.
The old True Line Jr. presses are found at every gun show. I've given 2 of them away to one of our forum buddies. My complaint w/them is the thread count requires to much work for an old arthritic wrist. 'Course, if you had a separate press for each ctg. you could avoid a lot of twisting. In using a modern press, the adapters , tho expensive, provide your means to use them. I believe I've got an extra one in my parts drawer. Stay in touch.
Pepe Ray

[Jon K]

jason,

Whatever you do, hang on to that 375296...I had one and sold it....it dropped .380 @290 gr. HARD TO FIND!!!

Jon

[jason]

Jon K -I will definitely hang onto the mold. I realized I got lucky when I did some research on it. It is a double cavity - the second cavity casts a smaller boolit that appears to be around 150 grains or so.

Pepe Ray - I left the primers I promised you in my truck. The next time you are in town give me a call and I will get them to you. We can talk more about the dies then.

[Hank10]

i think you'll find that the T ru line Jr. dies only neck size. I've loaded a ton of ammo on those things. I think I still have 7 tru line presses with a flock of dies.
I now load on Dillon 550s.
Re the 38/55, I have 4 at present. I used a single 375296 for yrs. (made for the 38/55) but have since gone to the 375449, using 2 double cavities gets me a lot more bullets. sized to .379, 296 and 449 shoot exactly the same. I use 2015.
25 grs. for 1400 to 30 for 1900 both very accurate. We shoot 10 shots on a small steel buffalo at 350 yds. off cross sticks at our monthly shoots. I went for 4 or 5 yrs. with never a miss so they do shoot good. I have an 1897 M94, a 1974 M94,
a high wall, and Marlin 336,in 38/55. I've never slugged the barrels of any of them and shoot the same ammo in all of them. I use the Hi Wall for 600+ yd. competition.
H10

[Deputy Dog]

thought I was the only one shooting 2200 it shoots great behind lead in 35 rem/32 spc/ 30 30 and 300 savg . Is 32.0 a max load in your 38/55 I HAVE ABOUT 40# OF 2200 LIKE TO HERE BACK excess650

[jason]

Thanks guys - I appreciate the advice.

I was able to get some H4198 powder (other possibilities were not in stock) and I am going to try to work up some hunting loads with the Lyman #375296. My first try at casting with this mold produced some excellent boolits using WW and a touch of tin that came out at .382 and weigh 272 grains.

The only loading data (at least that I can find) that comes close is from Hodgdon. They list a Lyman 250 grain cast bullet with a starting load of 18.5 grains and a max load of 24 grains. I talked with a much more experienced loader than me and he suggested a starting load of 17 grains. Is there a general rule of thumb to go by when you are using a heavier bullet with respect to loads that you can't find good data for?

[excess650]

Jon K -I will definitely hang onto the mold. I realized I got lucky when I did some research on it. It is a double cavity - the second cavity casts a smaller boolit that appears to be around 150 grains or so.

Pepe Ray - I left the primers I promised you in my truck. The next time you are in town give me a call and I will get them to you. We can talk more about the dies then.

If that smaller cavity is indeed the 150gr bullet, try 4-5gr Hogdon Universal for an accurate, quiet, low powered load. I shot sub 1" groups at 50 yards....will verify whcih rifles and powder charge.

[excess650]

thought I was the only one shooting 2200 it shoots great behind lead in 35 rem/32 spc/ 30 30 and 300 savg . Is 32.0 a max load in your 38/55 I HAVE ABOUT 40# OF 2200 LIKE TO HERE BACK excess650

32gr was NOT a max load, but not a blackpowder action load either. I would suggest backing off 4 gr and working up. I shot higher charges with excellent accuracy but decided 32gr was a good compromise between velocity, accuracy, and not hard on cases in my largish chamber.