7-08 vs. .308

[Marlin Junky]

Which is the better selection for shooting cast fast (7-08 or .308)? I'm basically looking to rebarrel my .358 M77 to a cartridge more suitable for varmint hunting with cast. I must be getting desperate because I've actually considered buying a .280 barrel for my H-R. :???:

Thanks,
MJ

[felix]

Why? Take any 160 grainer up to 2400 or so, and you'd prolly get all the excitement you can tolerate for a while. ... felix

[MT Gianni]

The number of molds available, bullet weights, availability of checks and brass all favor the 308.

[fatnhappy]

The number of molds available, bullet weights, availability of checks and brass all favor the 308.


Actually they might favor the .358 he already has.

I have a couple 7-08s and .308s. Pick your poison. I don't think either is a bad choice but I'm not certain either is a superior choice. Since you're rebarreling I believe choosing the twist rate is more important than the cartridge choice between the two.

[shotman]

I have to go with the others 308 is Much easier You can only drive cast so fast and 2400fps is too much 600fps ill do the job IF you are close

[Old Grump]

With varmint hunting as your goal I would go with the 7MM-08. Everybody seems to have missed why you want to change calibers.

[Mallard57]

Will you really get a cast boolit performance increase over your .358? I would't think you could drive boolits any faster out of a .308 or a 7-08. This would all be different if you were talking about jacketed bullets. With it being as hard as it is to find a .358 I can't imagine changing one over to something as common as the .308 or 7-08. Whichever route you choose to go good luck.
Jeff

[GabbyM]

I've been eyeballing the Savage - Stevens 7mm-08 rifles with the 11.5" twist barrels. One wuold think the slower twist would be dandy for cast. The Lyman 160 grain boolit has a BC of .382. That's a tad higher than the 30 caliber 200 grain 311299 with BC: .377. then the question is woudl a 11.5" twist stabalize a 7mm 160 grain bullet? For that matter would a 12" twist 308 stabalize the 200 grain bullet?

To my way of thinkig a 6mm BR would make a better varmint rifle. Cartridge has a neck of .321" length which is plenty for the Saeco 87 gr boolit. Don't know how that would feed through a Ruger 308 action though.

[303Guy]

I find is easier to cast bigger boolits. I have a 25 and it is actually do-able. Then again I paper patch and I would say that the 25 should be the lower limit for comfort. So, might I suggest having a look at the 260 Rem? Then, might I also suggest trying paper patching for it? You would then have 3000fps plus to play with for varminting. Not too shabby, really.[smilie=1:

[Marlin Junky]

I've been eyeballing the Savage - Stevens 7mm-08 rifles with the 11.5" twist barrels.

Now we're talkin'! This is my alternative to rebarreling the M77 and you get one nice trigger and a first class bedding job too. Buying a complete Savage may not cost a whole lot more than a custom rebarrel either. I know Savage's website says the 7-08 twist is 1:11.5" but that's so slow by today's standards that it almost seems like a misprint. Do you know for a fact that the twist is 1:11.5"?


One wuold think the slower twist would be dandy for cast. The Lyman 160 grain boolit has a BC of .382. That's a tad higher than the 30 caliber 200 grain 311299 with BC: .377. then the question is woudl a 11.5" twist stabalize a 7mm 160 grain bullet? For that matter would a 12" twist 308 stabalize the 200 grain bullet?

Varmints, varmints! and maybe Mulies and Whitetail. I don't need to stabilize those elk boolits. I'm after flat trajectory.


To my way of thinkig a 6mm BR would make a better varmint rifle. Cartridge has a neck of .321" length which is plenty for the Saeco 87 gr boolit. Don't know how that would feed through a Ruger 308 action though.

I don't either and it's not a Savage offering.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

I find is easier to cast bigger boolits. I have a 25 and it is actually do-able. Then again I paper patch and I would say that the 25 should be the lower limit for comfort. So, might I suggest having a look at the 260 Rem? Then, might I also suggest trying paper patching for it? You would then have 3000fps plus to play with for varminting. Not too shabby, really.[smilie=1:

Paper patching is on the menu (I've had great results with WW metal and a .35 Whelen) but I want to emphasize grooved boolits. I was thinking about a .260 for a time but one is really limiting himself to molds and twist choices in .264. Besides, we're only talking about a 1/2 mm to jump up to a 7mm.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Why? Take any 160 grainer up to 2400 or so, and you'd prolly get all the excitement you can tolerate for a while. ... felix

160 to 170 grainer in .308 would be the ticket but I want a bit more velocity than 2400 fps.

MJ

[WHITETAIL]

My vote would be for the 308!:holysheep

[Lloyd Smale]

im with felix. the 358 gives you the option of all kinds of lighter pistol bullets designed for the 357 Cast in a rifle is limited to about 2000 fps anyway so it isnt like your going to get flatter trajectory with another caliber. Id find a hollow point mold designed for the 357 and try that

[Bret4207]

160 to 170 grainer in .308 would be the ticket but I want a bit more velocity than 2400 fps.

MJ

I don't believe you stand any better chance of exceeding 2400 with a 7 or 30 than a 35. I definitely wouldn't rebarrel from 358!

[waksupi]

I think it would be a sad mistake to convert a .358. Lots of people here would most likely buy it from you, and you could simply purchase a rifle of another caliber. .358 is probably the best cast boolit hunting chambering.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Bigger holes are always better. And in this case 7mm is Good... .308 is GOODER!
And all the other reasions given above. PLUS if you ever have to get desperate and BUY 8UGH) ammo... 308 is everywhere. Even here in Peru.. 308 is in every gun shop (all 3 here in Arequipa) while there maybe one or two cartriges of 7mm.

[StarMetal]

I own both the 7mm-08 and the 308, with that said I have to agree with Waksupi and Bret. I'd sell that rifle before ruin a perfectly good 358. Shooting Times Layne Simpson is a huge fan of all the cartridges developed off the 308. He said possibly the best of all of them, and unfortunately not the best seller, is the 358 Win. I have to agree. Not Bret mentioned getting the 358 up to speed. With the heavier bullets you will definitely know when you arrived at speed.

Now I have a hot flat good shooting load for the 7mm-08. It's the Lee 135 grain 7mm bullet and pushed to jacketed velocities with 4350 powder. It hovers around 3/4 inch at 100 yards and that's out of a SAKO Mannlicher carbine. The load I settled on was at 2630 fps. I've had it to over 2700 fps with still good accuracy and no leading. I wouldn't go knocking a 7mm-08 in comparison with the 308 and that's not a knock on the 308 which is a great cartridge.

[Marlin Junky]

I don't believe you stand any better chance of exceeding 2400 with a 7 or 30 than a 35. I definitely wouldn't rebarrel from 358!

My M77 .358 has a fast twist and relatively shallow grooves... it is not capable of precision shooting beyond 2000 fps. I have tired many powder burning rates and an array of boolit/BHN values all the way up to SAECO 352 at about BHN 30. I've also tried the latter in my M77 .350 with the slowest burning powder I have (DP-85) and the accuracy barrier is just about the same place (right around 2000 fps). At this point my best rifle for shooting boolits less than 180 grains is an old 336 in 30-30 which has a 1:10 twist; however, since the lands are taller, I'm able to shoot nice groups with this gun at over 2300 fps. The logical next step is to go with a slower twist (while retaining at least .004" tall lands) and either stay with .30 cal or go to 7mm. I think anything smaller than 7mm is going to limit selection, of everything. I actually haven't eliminated a slow twist 6mm and if an old .244 Remington came my way, I would snap it up. Unfortunately there's not a great selection of 6mm molds on the market today and I'm not sure how well handling that little boolit would go... oh yeah, gas checks in 6mm are slim to none too.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

...358 is probably the best cast boolit hunting chambering.

Agreed, and if this rifle had a 16" twist, I would keep it just like that and buy small bore for varminting "off the shelf".

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Now I have a hot flat good shooting load for the 7mm-08. It's the Lee 135 grain 7mm bullet and pushed to jacketed velocities with 4350 powder. It hovers around 3/4 inch at 100 yards and that's out of a SAKO Mannlicher carbine. The load I settled on was at 2630 fps. I've had it to over 2700 fps with still good accuracy and no leading.

That's what I'm looking for.

MJ

[waksupi]

Agreed, and if this rifle had a 16" twist, I would keep it just like that and buy small bore for varminting "off the shelf".

MJ

What twist is it? I have one with 1-12", and one with 1- 14". Both shoot great.

[scb]

Have you seen what m77 .358's are selling for? Oh wait, go ahead and ----------work it over, it'll just make mine worth that much more.:kidding:

[303Guy]

I'm with scb. I'd like to buy your old barrel!:mrgreen:
(I want one to turn into a 358/303 - for heavy and slow boolits).

[Marlin Junky]

What twist is it? I have one with 1-12", and one with 1- 14". Both shoot great.

It has a 12" twist and it shoots very well with SAECO 352 as long as I don't push it much past 2000 fps.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

I'm with scb. I'd like to buy your old barrel!:mrgreen:
(I want one to turn into a 358/303 - for heavy and slow boolits).

It would be great for that application 303Guy, but if I rebarrel the M77, I'll most likely keep the .358 barrel... even if it decide to REBORE IT TO 9.3mm. :veryconfu

MJ

[honus]

Out of all the Ruger 77s I have, ( 25-308, 7-08, 270 win, 308, 358, and a 375/338), the 358 is my favorite for shooting Cast Bullets. It's a tack driver with the RCBS 200 grain fn. The 358 is also one of the most efficant cartridges because of it's favorable expansion ratio.
Two bullets that I have had excellent luck with are the Lyman 204 grain (358315) and the RCBS 200 grain flat Nose. I must say that I also enjoy shooting the 308 with the RCBS 150 grain fp.
My vote? Keep the 358 and try the 200 grain fn.

[Marlin Junky]

Out of all the Ruger 77s I have, ( 25-308, 7-08, 270 win, 308, 358, and a 375/338), the 358 is my favorite for shooting Cast Bullets. It's a tack driver with the RCBS 200 grain fn. The 358 is also one of the most efficant cartridges because of it's favorable expansion ratio.
Two bullets that I have had excellent luck with are the Lyman 204 grain (358315) and the RCBS 200 grain flat Nose. I must say that I also enjoy shooting the 308 with the RCBS 150 grain fp.
My vote? Keep the 358 and try the 200 grain fn.

I may still keep the .358; however, I've been up and down the spectrum of variables (powder speed, BHN, alloy composition, boolit diameter) with RCBS 35-200FN and my M77 .358 will never shoot this boolit into 1MOA at 2600-2800 fps... nor will my M77 .350. Even if the latter could, why the heck would I want the power to flatten a bear when the biggest thing I'll probably take with this gun is an apple munching porcupine in my grove or a coyote having unscrupulous (at least IMO) thoughts about my dogs. Besides, I'll want to practice/shoot this rifle a lot on my property (about 40 acres) and even though I'm outside city limits, I'm not all that far from my nearest neighbor.

Assuming, we continue with this thread, can we please stick to the topic? "7-08 vs. .308".

Thanks,
MJ

[HangFireW8]

Assuming, we continue with this thread, can we please stick to the topic? "7-08 vs. .308".


I tried that here once- steering the thread.

It didn't work. :lol:

-HF

[Marlin Junky]

I tried that here once- steering the thread.

It didn't work. :lol:

-HF

Did you kill it instead? :cry:

MJ

[JesterGrin_1]

The one thing I keep in mind is that no matter what bullet you shoot if it is cast you are still limited by how hard and fast you can push them. Unless you paper patch but even then I am not sure as I have not done any paper patch as of yet.

So I tend to like Larger BOOLITS for Cast :)

[Marlin Junky]

I need a switch barrel gun.

MJ

[HangFireW8]

Did you kill it instead? :cry:

MJ

No, the thread led a merry life and went on... without me. Or my topic, for that matter.

-HF :grin:

[StarMetal]

The one thing I keep in mind is that no matter what bullet you shoot if it is cast you are still limited by how hard and fast you can push them. Unless you paper patch but even then I am not sure as I have not done any paper patch as of yet.

So I tend to like Larger BOOLITS for Cast :)

...and where is that limit when you push cast bullets?

[mpmarty]

A good friend of mine (yes, I do have one) has a Browning BLR in .358 and it is an absolute joy to shoot. 200gr cast flat nose over a decent load of RL7 and nothing in site is safe from this beast.

[303Guy]

Have you seen the thread on "boolit obturation"? That went a bit off topic but ever so interesting! 6928 views!:mrgreen:

Anyway, I'm the worst offender for going off topic.[smilie=1:

From my own limited experience I would suggest the 7-08. That's based on what I find to be too small to patch easily and reports on performance from the 7-08 and a quick check on the ballistics of a 7mm. So that would be my vote.