hard boolits and dirty lube.

[troy_mclure]

i loaded up some 180gr tl swc boolits today in my .40S&W.

i made recluse's alox based lube, but mine turned out watery. it dried pretty fast tho, and with 2 coats you could tell it was on there.

i was shooting from a 3" xd40sc, 180gr tl/swc, on top of 7.1gr blue dot, they were moving at 820fps(+/-5).

boolits made from 2%pewter, lead from scuba weight and shot, sized to .401.

there were shavings of lead left in the barrel after every shot, and streaks of lead in the lands.
and it was so dirty it was leaving a soot trail across the chronograph.

and they were hitting everywhere, no accuracy.

also the cases were filthy afterwords..

is blue dot a normally dirty powder?

are my boolits too hard and not engaging the rifling?

i know i need to cook my lube down some more.

just dump all (500) of the boolits in the smelter when i make my #2?

[243winxb]

You need a different powder and good lube, start over.

[troy_mclure]

ill try universal clays or bullseye next.

thickening up the lube right now.

[pjh421]

Troy,
I want to say that your boolits are probably fat enough but your lube is failing. Also, do you have unburned powder left in the bore? I'm thinking the soot is from the lube more than the powder but you could try a known commercial lube as a control. What is the max charge listed for Blue Dot? Going too light can cause incomplete combustion as I found out when testing some plinking loads in my 44 mag cases.

Paul

[geargnasher]

What size are the grooves?

BD, like all Alliant DB flattened ball powders, is very dirty unless pressures are high enough to support complete combustion, often near the top of the list. When your cases are clean your pressures are high enough (as long as you're still within published limits for non-Glunk .40s).

Gear

[troy_mclure]

it a lee tumble lube mould, the 175gr swc one.

6.3gr min, 7.8gr max. i loaded to 7.1gr, it lists the velocity as 900fps, and i was hitting 820fps from a 3" barrel, so the load is right on.

i air cooled a few boolits, they are about 1/3 softer than the water dropped ones, but they only cooled for 3 hrs.

it takes all my strength to cut the water dropped ones with 8" dyke's, the air cooled ones only take a grunt or two.

they hammer flatter/faster as well.(man i need a hardness tester! lol)

[troy_mclure]

oh, the jar of lube thickened to milk consistency, but the bottles stayed watery so i cooked it down to chocolate syrup consistency.

[geargnasher]

Troy, I have good luck making it about the consistency of 10W-30 engine oil, no thicker or it gets too heavy on the boolits and takes too long to dry IME.

Also, I think you are NOT "right on" with your load if you are getting sooty cases on the outside. Not enough pressure to seal the case mouth. Try a faster powder like HS6 or even Unique and work up a new load. I would look to boolit fit and powder burn rate first, lube and alloy last.

And then again sometimes Mule Snot can be contrary.

Gear

[Recluse]

If your lube is too "watery," then it sounds like you may have too much mineral spirits in it, or too much solvent left in the JPW.

And if so, believe me, you WILL get leading. [smilie=b:

You can just as easily skip adding the mineral spirits to the mix, and simply blend it 50/50, or even more towards the JPW end such as 65% JPW / 35% LLA/alox--especially if you're as far down south as you are, and with summer fast approaching.

For what it's worth, I've had miserable luck using Blue Dot in any semi-automatic pistol. In fact, Blue Dot is at the bottom of my list of powders and the only reason I even use it is that someone gave me a pound of it twenty something years ago and I've still got some left. I've loaded up some decent (barely) .44 Special loads, but had to roll crimp a lot tighter than I care to just to get the powder to completely burn--and even then, it was nasty-dirty.

I do not own a .40 S&W and have sworn I never will (but that may change, too, someday), but I do like the AA powders in 9mm, particularly the #5. I've heard, read and seen great things with AA#7 for .40 S&W. Might be worth tinkering with.

But definitely get your lube thicker. This stuff is (almost) disgustingly cheap to make, so I'd just toss the watery batch and start over from scratch. And again: Try doing without adding any MS and going either half and half, or tilting the percentage ratio more towards the JPW.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Recluse, do you ever sleep? :kidding:

Gear

[Bret4207]

Were it me, I'd first see what the alloy will do as is with known good lube/powder combos. I am not a fan of changing alloy all over the place to find the "perfect" alloy. I use the alloy I have lots of and may make up tiny batches (20 lbs) of a special alloy for a certain project, but overall stick with one alloy.

Does the Lee boolit work in this gun with any other load/lube/alloy? Does your alloy work at all with other boolits/guns? If they work with something else then start there a change one thing at a time till you figure out whats up. WRITE DOWN your observations! If that boolit won;t work with other loads in your gun it may be a poor design for that particular gun.

[243winxb]

boolits made from 2%pewter, lead from scuba weight and shot, sized to .401.
Air cool this alloy. For midrange & higher velocity Alliant Unique is better. Bullseye is for lite target loads. The oven heat treated/water cooled in my 45acp left lots of lead slivers and dirt in the barrel. Accuracy was average thru the 200 round test. I will stay with air cooled boolits.http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_IMG_4480.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/IMG_4480.jpg)
Cast bullet leading-info from Lee.

A clue to what is causing the leading is where the leading first begins to appear. If it appears near the chamber, chances are that bullet diameter or hardness are the cause.

A diameter too small and/or too hard an alloy will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet, which erodes the bullet and leaves leading near the chamber.

If the leading first appears on the leading edge of the rifling (if you imagine the bullet being pushed through the barrel, you will note that one edge of the rifling does most of the work of imparting a spin to the bullet. This is the edge you see when you look through the barrel from the breech end) the bullet might be too soft, and/or the velocity too high.

If the leading appears in the second half of the barrel, the bullet is running out of lube. You should see a star shaped pattern of lube accumulate on the muzzle. This is an indication that there is a little excess lube.

[troy_mclure]

oh yea, that's what my barrel looked like too! only after 30 shots.

ill mix up another batch of lube today.


i got the blue dot because its one f the few pistol powders i can find for the 10mm.

[geargnasher]

I would go with the Universal, work up a new load. Did you ever determine your barrel groove diameter?

Gear

[troy_mclure]

my xd measured right at .40100.
my cx4 measured at .4010.
haven't done my dw rz10 yet.

[troy_mclure]

just finished melting the boolits into ingots.

ill air cool a batch and see how they shoot.

[Echo]

I believe BD is entirely too slow for the .40, or any non-magnum, pistol round. I haven't loaded for a .40 yet, but when I start, it will be with Unique. Yes, it is dirty and stinky, but it works.

[Frosty Boolit]

I have had great luck with Accurate #5 in .38, light .44 mag., 9mm, and .40S&W. If I am loading a magnum load or a high velocity .40, I use Accurate #7. Once tried blue dot in all calibers because there is a listing for practically everything but I did'nt care for it. Accurate #2 through #9 all meter the best I've ever seen.

[HangFireW8]

is blue dot a normally dirty powder?

Blue Dot burns clean enough once pressures are high enough... like in full house 357 Mag loads.

I wouldn't want to go there in 40S&W unless it was in a T/C break action (fully supported case head).

-HF

[pjh421]

In these smaller cases you just can't go wrong with 231/HP38.

Paul

[troy_mclure]

i loaded up a batch with bullseye, and a batch with universal clays.

see how they do Tuesday.

[Frosty Boolit]

Hangfire,Just wanted to make sure you were aware of the safety notice from alliant about using blue dot in the .357 magnum. I think it only pertrains to 125 grain loads. Don't want to hi jack this thread but safety is important.

[HangFireW8]

Thanks Frosty, I am aware of the BD 125 grain warning. I will give it all the due consideration it deserves.

-HF