Ideal 360344? - Info Please

[LET-CA]

Does anyone know anything about this mould. The bullet looks like a like a little tiny can of Campbell's soup.

Thanks in advance

[9.3X62AL]

FLOODGATE......calling FLOODGATE.........

[Denver]

[QUOTE=LET-CA]Does anyone know anything about this mould. The bullet looks like a like a little tiny can of Campbell's soup.

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE

I have a mold for this boolit. It's a seven holer and weighs a ton. Casts a flat nose/base wadcutter boolit that weighs about 150 grs. It's hinged at the front and has a zerk fitting at the top of the hinge. I bought it from a member of my club who as selling some stuff for his friends widow. I've never cast with it, just keep it around for show and tell.

:Fire:

[floodgate]

Guys: OK, OK!!

Here's how I answered LET-CA on the PM he sent:

"
LET-CA:

Bullet #360344 was introduced in approximately 1912, in Ideal Handbook No. 22, when the Ideal mould line was made by Marlin; it was re-designated #358344 in Handbook No. 41 of 1957, under Lyman's ownership - not a real change in the bullet itself, but - rather - a change in the "fashion" for sizing relative to barrel groove diameter. It is shown in the 1958 Lyman "Handbook of Cast Bullets" with the imprinted identification ".38 Cal. S&W M and Colt", a carryover from the period prior to WW I when the .38 Spl. was known (briefly) as the ".38 S&W Military", and both S&W and Colt promoted their .38 Spls. as potential military revolvers to supplant the old .38 Long Colt. It is stated to have been designed by one C. C. Crossman for the .38 Special, and, "Cuts a full size clean hole, giving the shooter a full [score] count." It was dropped from regular listings in 1963 but was again listed as available on special order from 1971 through 1978 in the the Lyman Annual Catalogs. It is a 150-grain full wadcutter, plain based, with two grease grooves and a crimping groove.

That help?

Doug"

If your eyes glazed over half-way through, remember: YOU ASKED!!

Denver; that sounds like one of the old Ideal "Armory" moulds, made on into the Lyman years before WWII. If you ever get tired of looking at it....

floodgate

[9.3X62AL]

Doug, my eyes NEVER glaze over during your recounts of boolit mold history. THANK YOU KINDLY, SIR!

[26Charlie]

I have a single-cavity mould for it, and have used it in the .38 S&W and the .38 Special. It will just be touched by the .360 die, and the .358 die sizes it on all the bands.
The bullet is a wad cutter, but half the bullet is out of the case because of the groove design, and it can thus be loaded to the ballistics you would load a semi-wadcutter Keith design bullet to. I have used it with 3 gr. UNIQUE in .38 S&W for top-break revolvers. In the .38 Special I have used up to 6.0 gr. UNIQUE in solid frame Colt and S&W revolvers.
It delivers quite a smack - shot a starling with the .38 Special load, which just vanished except for a few feathers floating in the trees.

[LET-CA]

. . . It delivers quite a smack - shot a starling with the .38 Special load, which just vanished except for a few feathers floating in the trees.

I have visions of the huge starling flocks that we'd routinely see in Texas turning into a large cloud of feathers as thousands of guys on the ground with their handguns all start shooting at the same time. . . :Fire: It could happen - and it would be a good thing too.

[Buckshot]

................Floodgate, ALWAYS interesting guy!

..............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

26 Charlie's text reminds me of a couple of my first-acquired molds, Lyman #358432--a 160 grain wadcutter and #313445, a 95 grain wadcutter. This has to do with both designs' button front-end and about a drive-band's length of sub-caliber nose that protrudes forward of the crimp groove. I haven't used either design for 10-12 years. Both shot well, no complaints on that score--and small game got whacked good by both.

Alas, once the SWC siren song filled my ears--wadcutters no longer attracted me. With the round flat nose designs getting all the good press these days, SWC's are now getting relegated to the same warehouse that wadcutters are stored in--at least, as far as gunrags are concerned.

I should get both molds out and give these neglected designs a test drive--this time to determine if these critters take the same dive at 60-65 yards that HBWC's at target velocities are famous for. I don't recall engaging any small critters at great distances with these loads, or shooting them on serious paper past 50 yards.

[26Charlie]

The SWC's are definitely able to group better past 50 yards - 100 yards targets and longer range gong shooting. I haven't been able to prove it, but I don't think the RNFP's are as stable and group as well at the longer ranges as a good Keith-style SWC. What they do is load easier and faster into a single-action revolver.
The wadcutters are great at targets at up to fifty yards, the supposed premier target load in the .38 Special being 2.8 gr. of Bullseye, for moderate velocity. My experience is that grouping is better with a heavier load, around 4.0 gr. of Bullseye or equivalent powder, say Red Dot or 700-X. C. E. Harris has an article in the latest Fouling Shot coming to somewhat the same conclusion. Of course, the National Match Course shooters don't use revolvers anymore, so these .38 Special target loads have pretty much gone by the wayside. I always keep a batch of them on hand though, because when teaching new shooters the step from a .22 handgun to a .38 revolver is a large one for them, and the confidence instilled when they poke nice large clean-cut holes in their targets is great for them.
Also if you don't want to make a lot of racket but just do some shooting, they are fun to shoot, and there is no question that as a pest load they are instant death for anything up to dog-size. (I'm speaking of the 4.0 gr. load, about 900 fps)