Lebel Loads

[KCSO]

I have been working up a deer load for my Lebel and have just about had to start from scratch. There is no cast data available for the Lebel and I have been slowly working up with Rx7 as it has proved so accurate in my Argentine. My bullet is the Lee 204 for the M95 sized to 324 and lubed with Rooster Red. This is the best use I have found for the Lee bullet as it really casts on the edge of too small for the M95. Cast from wheel weights and with lube and gas check this bullet weighs right at 208 grains.

I started with 26 grains of Rx7 and that was way too light as I was looking to get into the 1900 fps range. at 32 grains the gun started to group and at 34 I reached my desired velocity and am getting 2" groups at 100 yards. This should make a good deer killer, but I wish I knew what pressures I am hitting. I am trying to stay at 30,000 in the old Lebel. When M/M is back up I am going to have him duplicate my 220 Argie bullet in 325 diameter. This will be an almost exact duplicate of the Kynoch Lebel bullet offered in 1920 and it was considered quite a hunting round even as a fmj. I wish I had kept some of my old Lyman Manuals from the 40's, but someone convinced me that the old books had outdated info and were dangerous.

I am mystified as to how the Lebel, which is made like a dovetailed chineese puzzle held together by screws, can shoot so good. This cut down military rifle will put plinking loads into under an inch at 50 yards and I have fired 3 and 5 shot groups under 2" so regularly that if I get a 3" group I look for problems.

[Sailman]

KCSO

Is the cartridge you are shooting the 8X50 R Lebel?

You may want to look at the book CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD by Frank C Barnes,
Revised Third Edition, Digest Books, Inc., Northfield, Illinois, page 192.

From what the book says, the 8X50 R cartridge was replaced by the rimless 7.5mm
round in 1936. The book goes on to say that the 8 mm Lebel cartridge ( I assume they are talking about the 8X50 R Cartridge ) is about the 30-40 Krag class. That being the case, you could start using 30-40 Krag loading data ( always starting on the low end of the data ).

If you are shooting the 8X50 R Lebel cartridge, where are you geting your brass cartridges? Are they boxer primed?


Sailman

[KCSO]

Sailman

Here is where the manure hits the mixmaster. I will use the Lyman cast bullet hand book as an example...
LCBHB lists no loads for the 30-40 Krag over what I would call light plinking loads. 14-1500 fps. The list no pressure data. With the warnings I get the feeling they really don't think you should shoot these, but if you must... I happen to have a set of manuals from my father in law that date back to 1948, these are jacketed loads. In 1948 the Krag was a good all around gun provided you do not exceed 42,000 psi over the years that has dropped to where if you can find an unqualified reccommendation it is don't go over 35,000.

Now here is how I worked up my loads..
I read 30-40 data both jacketed and cast. I read 8 mm Mauser and 8 MM rem Mag loads and studied all the pressure ratings. I included the 8 MM Mag because it has close to the same case capacity. I knew I wanted to push a 200 gr bullet at 1950 fps and knew that the Balle N pushed a jacketed slug at 2400 at about 40,000 PSI. I felt I could get my desired velocity with cast at les than 35,000 so I started with a very low charge and worked up a couple of grains at a time til I reached my goal. According to my calculation I should be running about 34,000. But think of the newbie who has a Lebel and a LCBHB, he's in the dark and most of the powders and loads listed in other places are for jacketed slugs and may or may not work. As to brass i have 25 rounds of Kynoch converted to shotgun primers, I have 50 348 Win converted to 8MM and I just got 100 rounds of 8x50 R new from Graf's. The Graf's brass is some hard and works best if annealed before use.

Mostly it just irritates me that the handbooks seem to be so safe they are usless for most of the oldies I love to shoot. I fully expect to open a loading manual some day and see a sign that says NO GUNS MADE BEFORE 1960 are safe to shoot.

[eldeguello]

KCSO

Is the cartridge you are shooting the 8X50 R Lebel?

You may want to look at the book CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD by Frank C Barnes,
Revised Third Edition, Digest Books, Inc., Northfield, Illinois, page 192.

From what the book says, the 8X50 R cartridge was replaced by the rimless 7.5mm
round in 1936. The book goes on to say that the 8 mm Lebel cartridge ( I assume they are talking about the 8X50 R Cartridge ) is about the 30-40 Krag class. That being the case, you could start using 30-40 Krag loading data ( always starting on the low end of the data ).

If you are shooting the 8X50 R Lebel cartridge, where are you geting your brass cartridges? Are they boxer primed?


Sailman

I just looked in the 9th Edition of COTW, and it shows that 46 grains of IMR 3031 with a 198-grain bullet duplicates the old French military Lebel load of the 198-grain Balle D bullet at 2380 FPS MV. They also show that 45 grains of IMR 4895 gives a higher MV with the same weight bullet - I would have expected it to be the other way around! Maybe it was a different 198-grain bullet??:confused: