Made some bullet lube today...

[Ben]

My usual blend :

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment

This is some good stuff !

Here is a photo of the Lucas Red & Tacky # 2 Grease :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/3134AGSZ1CL_SS400_.jpg

The mixture is heated on low temp setting ( melted very slowly ) on my electric hot plate until all the ingredients are mixed. The mixture is poured through an old T-Shirt, to be certain there are no impurities in the mixture. Then everything is poured into metal pans that have been lubed with Pam Spray Olive Oil.

Once the lube is room temp., it is placed in the freezer. The lube stays in the freezer for 5 hrs., It shrinks and easily falls from the metal mold pans.

I will cut this into 2 " wide strips with a sharp utility knife and place in large gallon size storage bags. I melt my lube and pour it into my 2 lube-sizers.

I hope this is a help to some of you.

By the way........there will be a lot of shooting that will come from these 2 pieces of bullet lube.

PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE THIS LUBE INSIDE YOUR HOME ! !

See link below to see how I pour my lube into my lube sizer :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=146302


Ben
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-28.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-41.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-29.jpg

And YES, this lube has provided me with some very accurate groups from some of my .30 rifles, here is a 5 shot group shot with the 210 gr. HCB group buy bullet, Ruger # 1 stainless, 308 Win., 18.5 grs. IMR - 4198 :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1343.jpg

[JCherry]

Ben,

That lube sure looks pretty.

What calibers, rifle/pistol and velocities do you find it useful with?

How is it's consistancy compared to the 50/50 Alox/Beeswax lube? Any idea at what temperature range would heat be needed in a lubrisizer for it to flow well?

Have Fun,

JCherry

[geargnasher]

Thanks for sharing, sounds like a good recipe.

Hey, who put the "T" in Dexron? :kidding:

Gear

[WILCO]

Thanks for showing us how it's done. [smilie=s:

[Ben]

JCherry :

I shoot this lube in all caliber handguns including my 454 Casull. I shoot it in .30 cal. rifles in excess of 2,000 fps with no leading and excellent accuracy.

As to consistency.....I'd say it is a little harder than 50 / 50 lube, but I don't use a heater even in the winter time.
_______________________________________________

geargnasher :

My mistake....I've corrected it.

Thanks,
Ben

[BBA]

Sounds like its good stuff. Does it separate if remelted for a pan lube?

[Ben]

No, it doesn't separate.

Ben

[Digger]

Very nice Ben ! , but a question from a ignoramus here if you don't mind..
How do you measure your percentages ? by volume or .......

Thank you
digger

[Ben]

digger :

I have an Aluminum pot that I use ONLY for melting boolit lube , the outside has scratch marks and numbers 0 - 10 ( a graduated line system like you'd see on the outside of your wife's glass pyrex mixing bowl ) that I have inscribed with an electro pencil.........50 is my half way mark on the melting pan ( that is where my melted beeswax comes to ) the next 30 ( 50 - 80 marks ) will get Lucas High Temp Grease, the next 10 units Johnson's Paste wax, the next 5 Dexron Trans Fluid, the next 5 STP............ until the melted mix is at the 10 line.

My " 10 line " is about 2 " from the top of the melting pot. This allows me to stir the mix without the risk of any splashing over the sides.

When I'm filled to the 10 line, I'm good to go. Then I stir and mix everything on low heat until all the components are liquefied and are one homogeneous mixture. I realize this isn't following exactly the " Scientific Laboratory Method ", but it is repeatable and once I get the kind of results that I want, all I want is to be able to repeat it.

The photos above ( in Post # 1 )show 2 large blocks of the lube. I've cut it this morning with a sharp utility knife into manageable strips so that I can easily melt it and pour it into my Lyman 45 Lube - Sizer as needed :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-29.jpg

[StarMetal]

I believe you meant you make some "boolit" lube. [smilie=l:

[Ben]

StarMetal :

Many thanks for the correction.

Ben

[geargnasher]

JCherry :

I shoot this lube in all caliber handguns including my 454 Casull. I shoot it in .30 cal. rifles in excess of 2,000 fps with no leading and excellent accuracy.

As to consistency.....I'd say it is a little harder than 50 / 50 lube, but I don't use a heater even in the winter time.
_______________________________________________

geargnasher :

My mistake....I've corrected it.

Thanks,
Ben

Ben, just one more question about performance of this recipe. I've noticed with many of the lubes I've tried that after the guns get warm accuracy can diminish and I get fliers. I don't know if this is a general trend or not, but I've found that if I put too much castor or add too much jojoba to the basic Felix lube recipe this happens with both pistols and rifles, so I keep the "lubricating oils" to the minimum that will work. It seems there is quite a bit of lubricant in your recipe, does this affect rapid-fire accuracy or extended shooting session accuracy?

Gear

[Digger]

Thanks for the method Ben , now I will have to chase down some bees wax.......[smilie=2:

[Ben]

geargnasher :

I'll be honest with you, I don't do ANY rapid fire shooting. I'm a hunter and paper puncher ( target shooter ). When I'm shooting off the bench, when my barrel becomes uncomfortable to the touch, it is put aside and allowed to cool. In the summer time, while I'm shooting 5 shot slow fire strings sometimes that doesn't take very long.

With all that said, Yes, my lube has a good bit of lube quality components in it.

Have I ever noticed wild fliers that I thought were linked to the lube, .....No

When I've fired 50 rounds though my 06' ( with loads in the 1,700 - 1,800 fps zone ), I can push a couple of dry cotton patches through the barrel, when looking through the barrel, it appears to have never been fired.

Ben

[StarMetal]

It's known that too slippery of a lube isn't good for accuracy. The lube I make so far has been pretty consistent hot or cold.

[StarMetal]

My usual blend :

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II Trans. Fluid
5% STP

This is some good stuff !

Here is a photo of the Lucas Red & Tacky # 2 Grease :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/3134AGSZ1CL_SS400_.jpg

The mixture is heated on low temp setting ( melted very slowly ) on my electric hot plate until all the ingredients are mixed. The mixture is poured through an old T-Shirt, to be certain there are no impurities in the mixture. Then everything is poured into metal pans that have been lubed with Pam Spray Olive Oil.

Once the lube is room temp., it is placed in the freezer. The lube stays in the freezer for 5 hrs., It shrinks and easily falls from the metal mold pans.

I will cut this into 2 " wide strips with a sharp utility knife and place in large gallon size storage bags. I melt my lube and pour it into my 2 lube-sizers.

I hope this is a help to some of you.

By the way........there will be a lot of shooting that will come from these 2 pieces of bullet lube.

See link below to see how I pour my lube into my lube sizer :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=29088



Ben
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-28.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-41.jpg

And YES, this lube has provided me with some very accurate groups from some of my .30 rifles :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1343.jpg

Ben what boolit is that?

[Ben]

That's Aladdin's Group Buy 210 gr. HCB.

Sized .310 and fired from my Ruger # 1 Stainless , 308 Win. with 18.5 grs. of IMR - 4198.

[StarMetal]

That's Aladdin's Group Buy 210 gr. HCB.

Sized .310 and fired from my Ruger # 1 Stainless , 308 Win. with 18.5 grs. of IMR - 4198.

That's what I thought it was. You have it shooting pretty well.

[Ben]

Some have criticized that bullet, but it has always shoot well for me.

Ben

[smokemjoe]

Put in some powder rosin and ivory soap, shave it off a bar,

[JCherry]

Ben,

Thanks for the details on your lube. I'll have to make some up and try it.

What do you call your lube? For my notes I've noted it as "Bens Red".

Your group with Aladdins HBC is great. I also got into the buy on that mold and tried it out a bit in a 17 Enfield. I had strong indications that it was capable of very good groups but got busy on other things and did not really wring it out. I think I needed to run it a little bit slower and it would have been a tack driver. I was using heat treated bullets but I shot them within a few days of treating them and I might have been better off had I let them "time" harden for a month or so.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Ben]

Umm.........." Ben's Red "........Now that has got a nice ring to it. I like it ! !

Ben

[StarMetal]

Umm.........." Ben's Red "........Now that has got a nice ring to it. I like it ! !

Ben


I like "Ben's Blend"

[257 Shooter]

I like Ben's Red best but you can call it whatever you want Ben.

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the extra info, Ben. I normally don't shoot rapid strings, either, but sometimes it happens and the lube can fall apart accuracy-wise. Looks like yours "has what it takes".

Gear

[303Guy]

Mmmm .... looks pretty good. I wonder where I might get that Red "N" Tacky stuff in my parts.:roll:

My own 'waxy lube' has 33% STP in it and 33% candle wax (and 33% of any boolet lube I could find lying around) but then it was intended to hold a J-word in the case mouth with the aid of a paper towel cup instead of sizing the neck. I got no copper fouling.

[Ben]

303Guy :

Most all Auto Parts stores carry it here. Not certain if it would be available in N Z ? ?

Ben

[longbow]

I have been using the Lucas Red "N" Tacky grease in my lube as well though mine is much more basic than yours and I haven't sorted out proportions nearly as nicely either.

~ roughly 4 parts by volume Lucas Red "N" Tacky grease to one part Ivory soap
~ roughly 3 parts parffin wax by volume to 1 part of the grease/soap mix

I would have preferred beeswax but didn't have any and needed lube. I have also been planning to add some STP.

I have only made a couple of batches so far. The first was small and worked well so I made up a larger batch batch but wound up adjusting the amount of parffin to make the lube harder because I wanted a hardish "hot" tumble lube.

So far so good. It is hard but slick and I am getting no leading with .303 British (314299) and .44 mag Marlin with H&G #503.

Nice shooting by the way and I like that boolit. It looks very similar to the Lyman 311365 but maybe even less bearing surface. I have been thinking of getting in on the NOE group buy that is going now.

Thanks for sharing.

Longbow

[Ben]

Longbow :

The Lucas Red and tacky is some good stuff. There may be components out there that work as well, but I've had good luck with it, so..." If it isn't broke...don't try to fix it."

[longbow]

Ben:

I guess I think of my simple lube as modified Felix lube though Felix may not appreciate it. I didn't invent anything, I just took a few ideas and a pinch of whatever was available then mixed.

I should start by saying I am lazy and always look for simple and easy.

When I decided I wanted to make lube I read through lots of lube recipes and Felix's recipe appealed to me most ~ especially since it is highly regarded. Why then didn't I just make Felix lube? Well... I didn't have some of the ingredients and couldn't get them quickly so I decided to improvise.

Long story short, rather than wait to get stuff I decided to look for things I thought would make a decent lubricating goo. I figured the Ivory soap is slippy on its own and helps hold stuff together so that's available and in, I was looking for an appealing grease and saw a tube of lucas Red "N" Sticky grease (just the name is appealing!) and to make it "hard" all I had was paraffin.

So far it has worked for me but I can't claim it is better than any other lube I have tried and I haven't pushed velocity either... yet.

I do plan to use beeswax and add some STP. Not sure why I didn't in the first batches but that lazy (and oh I forgot ~ cheap) bit may have come into it.

I am of the opinion that the soap and grease do well as lube and I did try to get more soap mixed to see if I could get the hardnes I wanted without paraffin but I couldn't seem to get more soap in the mix easily.

Anyway, I am rambling on here.

Once again, thanks for sharing. It is always good to see what others are working on and more important when they have success.

You said it "If it isn't broke...don't try to fix it."

Longbow

[Lloyd Smale]

only thing i notice and wonder about is that grease says it contains anti seize and anti seize contains abrasives. at least thats what ive been told.

[StarMetal]

First let me start off that I doubt there are abrasives in the Lucas grease, after all it's a lubricating grease, why would they put anything in it that would cause wear?

Ben there is no doubt your lube works, but I'm along with Longbow in that you don't need all the other stuff you put in your lube. One lubricate is enough in bullet lube. I'd bet you could remove the STP, Dexron, Johnsons Wax from it and still have the same results.

357 Maximums lube is similar. He uses cheapo Walmart Lithium grease, paraffin, and soft micro-crystalline wax. His too shoots good and at high velocity also.

The idea is to keep it simple. Most everyone starts dumping everything in their molten lube mix to almost the kitchen sink. It's not needed. The idea is to keep it simple, like 357 maximums lube and my beeswax, Castor Oil, Ivory soap lube. With that said I believe just about anything waxy or lubricate wise can be used for bullet lube. I think you could probably get good results with ear wax if you could gather enough of it, although ear wax really isn't a wax as we know it ( The primary components of earwax are shed layers of skin, with 60% of the ear wax consisting of keratin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratin), 12–20% saturated and unsaturated long-chain fatty acids, alcohols, squalene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squalene) and 6–9% cholesterol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earwax#cite_note-compo-2) ) Felix lube is good, works, but in my opinion has too many ingredients, and not as simple to make as Maximums or Bens lube.

I'm thinking of trying Maximums lube and I was going to make it right to the T, but might substitute Lucas Red. Where did you buy that grease at Ben?

[Ben]

StarMetal :

Ben there is no doubt your lube works, but I'm along with Longbow in that you don't need all the other stuff you put in your lube. One lubricate is enough in bullet lube. I'd bet you could remove the STP, Dexron, Johnsons Wax from it and still have the same results.

You may well be right. I may make up an alternate small batch and see ? ?

Ben

[StarMetal]

StarMetal :

Ben there is no doubt your lube works, but I'm along with Longbow in that you don't need all the other stuff you put in your lube. One lubricate is enough in bullet lube. I'd bet you could remove the STP, Dexron, Johnsons Wax from it and still have the same results.

You may well be right. I may make up an alternate small batch and see ? ?

Ben

Worth experimenting. You may find out you don't need all those. I was too there is such a thing as too slippery a lube and too smooth of a bore, both which can affect accuracy. In my lube of beeswax and ivory soap, I add the Castor Oil for the lubricate. Let me tell you that there isn't very much of it in my lube because too much Castor is simply too much lube.

Ben I know how it is making lube. You feel really good and it's cool it has all these ingredients in it, but it's better to find out what you don't need in it. Where did you buy you Lucas Red N Tacky? I may substitute it for the lithium lube 357 Maximum makes. His lube by the way is very good, it's the reason it sold or gave away all his other lube he had in stock. Just to humor you I've shot cast with just filling the grooves with Irish Spring merely by rubbing the bullet against the soap and they shot really excellent. I couldn't get Irish Spring to melt like I can pure Ivory soap.

If you do eliminate things, do one at a time to see. Then go two at a time and so forth to see where lies the truth.

[Ben]

My Lucas Red & Tacky is bought locally at Auto-Zone parts stores.

Ben

[StarMetal]

Ben,

I was just at Auto-Zone about two hours ago and I did look for it. They didn't have it. May be different state to state.

[Digger]

Okay boys .....I ran a little batch of ben's red here (actually a little more brown than red cause i had some local bees wax on hand ) but neglected to tell the wife what was in the freezer ....:twisted:
Something along the lines was said....WHAT THE **** !! IS THIS ! .....as she was preparing dinner and found it very quickly....:oops: , it was still a little warm.
Ah yes , life's precious moments to cherish , one of those I don't think she will let me forget now .
digger

[Ben]

digger :

What you say is........." Honey , which container in the freezer are you talking about ? "

Let us know how it all works out ( The wife and the lube )..................

Ben

[Ben]

StarMetal :

I went to Lucas Oil's Web site. This is what their web site says about retail dealers in your area........Sorry you're having difficulty locating the product.

Lucas Oil Products are available at Auto Zone, Advance Auto, Napa, O'Reilly Auto Parts, Carquest, PEP Boys, Checker, Shucks, Kragen, Murray's and CSK Auto Parts Stores nationwide.

[Digger]

Maybe should have mentioned " research for a new beauty product !! ":bigsmyl2:

[DragoonDrake]

I just made a batch of this and there were solids in the solution. Ben what did I do wrong?

Adam

[357maximum]

I just made a batch of this and there were solids in the solution. Ben what did I do wrong?

Adam

I am not Ben but I can tell you that you simply need to melt it longer and/or crank up the heat a bit more. Grease was designed to NOT MELT out of the equipment it was designed to go into/on and that is one of it's great qualities for our use . It can help to keep a lube soft without dropping the melt point. The fella that invented Lithi-Bee had a clue long ago and I suspect he was nowhere near the first to make the leap with grease in his lube.

One of my first batches of grease based lube was very very similar to Ben's RedRayGun Lube posted here and was with Lucas redNtacky. It worked just dandy but I set to "consolidate" the recipe for the sake of convenience and cost.

I found Mag1 lithium grease from WalO'CHINA Mart works just as well, does not stink as bad, and melts more completely faster / is a whole lot easier to work with and it is cheaper.

The one thing you need to watch with all grease based lubes regardless of whether it is micro or beeswax based is the total amount of "slickies" in the lube. You can take slick too far especially in hot weather. You will know when this happens by two ways....your rifle will start shooting wildly vertically when the barrel is warm and if you really take the idea too far you will get a lube blob instead of a star on the muzzle. On the positive side....if you go too far it can be fixed with more wax.

[DragoonDrake]

Thank you max. I had cooked it longer than any other lube before so I was getting worried what the swimbo would say.

[Big Country]

I made a batch about 2 days after seeing the 1st post. I used the Walmart lithium greese due to not finding any Lucus. I shot my 1st 20 rounds of .308 today and it seemed to do fine. I pan lubed the bullets and cut them out with a cutter. This stuff was sure messy to wwork with but I think I will like it.

[Ben]

Yes, I failed to mention that it takes time and heat to get the grease to melt. A few days ago when I made mine, I ( regardless of my efforts ) had a few globs of grease floating that just didn't seem to want to melt), so I took a clean white cotton " T - Shirt " and poured the molten lube through this " FILTER " into my mold pans. Worked perfectly. Chunked the " FILTER " into the dumpster when I was finished. This filtering process is a good idea to insure that there are no contaminants in your lube. My lube worked great.

If you find that your lube is a little bit too slick, add some paraffin or beeswax to the mix as 357maximum has suggested. Keep us posted on how your lube works out.

Ben

[DragoonDrake]

Well I heated the lube again in the oven at 325dF for three hours and still have some solids in it. Ben I missed the strain through a t-shirt in your first post and had already heated and cooled the lube by your second one. The lube is soft enough that I can use a spoon to get it out of my mason jars and the solids are at the bottom, so I will do that for a while.

I have a little bit of saeco green left in my sizer after that I am going to try your lube. Thank you for the recipe and I will keep you updated as to how it shoots.

Adam

[StarMetal]

Read the PDF on Lucas Red N Tacky the part about harzardous decomposition section:

http://www.lucasoil.ca/data/MSDS%2020005,10027,10028,10029%20Red%20N%20Tacky.p df

Most anything sulfur is corrosive, say like in black powder and the substitutes. You are burning that lube in the barrel to a degree. The Hydrogen is corrosive too.

Thought you'd like to know. I'd check the MSDS out on other lubes too. By the way the Lucas grease is polyurea based not lithium soap and some grease experts say that lots of times the two aren't compadible so might keep that in mine when you use greases on other things like your car or tractor, etc.

[357maximum]

The company I worked for used Lucas R&T on all the dirt movin iron and we never had an issue with corrosion....but then again we only burnt it one time:sad: and I do not think any grease choice would have mattered...it was one hot backhoe.

I switched grease in my lube to Mag1 lithium because of smell and cost. MML works, my version of Ben's red ray gun lube works, but the MML is a lot less smelly when making and is a bit more domestically diplomatic..........so basically it came down to cost and the simple fact that I happen to like my testicles attached.

[Ben]

I figure there are many things in our environment , on a daily basis, that pose a greater threat to me than Lucas Red and Tacky Grease.

I think I'll stay with my mixture.

Ben

[357maximum]

I figure there are many things in our environment , on a daily basis, that pose a greater threat to me than Lucas Red and Tacky Grease.

I think I'll stay with my mixture.

Ben

I agree with that statement Ben. I simply changed cause I am 1. cheap and 2. SWMBO did not like the lingering smell (I did not like the smell either...but do not tell the princess that I said that)

With a little common sense most stuff that the eco-terrorist, greeni meanies, and loofa loonies consider "bad" can be safely used. I still use really "BAD" chemicals on a daily basis and it ain't gave me drain bamage yet.[smilie=1: I still use tri-chlor as a general solvent and none of my parts have fallen off......but then again I do not bathe in the stuff either. Common sense is not so common these days, but I still require no guvment agency to protect me....from me.

*caution*** the previous statement may cause mental issues and skin abnormalities in labratory animals somewhere in Kalifornia***

[StarMetal]

Ben,

I didn't write it as Lucas Red N Tacky was harmful to our bodies, it's not, it's that when it's burnt, which can happen with bullet lubes, it makes chemicals that are corrosive to steel. Heck I get reamed regularly for using aluminum gas checks and many hardcore black powder shooters here point out the bad things about Blackhorn 209 substitute. So I figured those type of folks on the forum may be concerned about what Red N Tacky can be changed into burning the lube with it's content in your bore. I wasn't knocking your lube as a bullet lube. I think I'll stay with the lithium soap based greased such as 357's Walmart cheapie as Red N Tacky is polyurea based and maybe that turns into nasty stuff when burnt.

[Ben]

No problem..............

[NoZombies]

Maybe should have mentioned " research for a new beauty product !! ":bigsmyl2:

Just tell her you're saving money so she can go shopping more :drinks:

[fstreed]

Sounds like a good reason to wipe out the bore after a shooting session.

I used this same grease in my last batch of lube and can vouch that it works well, but I clean my guns after shooting so haven't tested for corrosiveness.

The Lucas web site states "Lucas Red 'N' Tack Grease is a smooth, tacky, red lithium 12-OH grease fortified with rust and oxidation inhibitors." I assumed it was a lithium grease based on their advertising. I can see how this could be a problem if someone pumped it into a u-joint or something that had been previously lubed with a true lithium based grease. Of course it wouldn't make much difference in bullet lube, except perhaps the corrosiveness factor.





Read the PDF on Lucas Red N Tacky the part about harzardous decomposition section:

http://www.lucasoil.ca/data/MSDS%2020005,10027,10028,10029%20Red%20N%20Tacky.p df

Most anything sulfur is corrosive, say like in black powder and the substitutes. You are burning that lube in the barrel to a degree. The Hydrogen is corrosive too.

Thought you'd like to know. I'd check the MSDS out on other lubes too. By the way the Lucas grease is polyurea based not lithium soap and some grease experts say that lots of times the two aren't compadible so might keep that in mine when you use greases on other things like your car or tractor, etc.

[Ben]

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II Trans. Fluid
5% STP

I've shot this lube in rifles and pistols for several yrs. now.
You'd think if I was going to have a corrosion problem, I'd have it by now.

My bores are spotless.

Life is full of choices..................

Ben

[fstreed]

I've shot the lube in rifles and pistols for several yrs. now.
You'd think if I was going to have a corrosion problem, I'd have it by now.

My bores are spotless.

Life is full of choices..................

Ben

That's good to hear, because I recently made up a batch of over 3 pounds of lube containing Lucas Red N Tacky, so it looks like I will also be shooting it for several years to come. :smile:

[Ben]

fstreed :

You may have to make slight adjustments to your lube by adding additional Beeswax or paraffin to stiffen the lube with increased summer heat right around the corner. Keep us posted on the lube's performance.
The composition listed above will often times make a fairly soft lube. Some prefer a harder lube which can easily be obtained by adding a higher % of Beeswax.

Ben

[StarMetal]

I'll take 357 maximum's experience and go with the Walmart lithium grease. Mike told me that fumes and smell from Red N Tacky were enough to turn him off to it.

Ben maybe you clean your guns well or don't let them set long after firing. I'd make darn sure I cleaned them and never let them set after using that grease. It's ordinary grease when used as grease. Like the PDF states when it's burnt there's some mighty bad chemical changes to it.

[Ben]

StarMetal

Thanks for your help, I'll keep an eye on that.

[fstreed]

fstreed :

You may have to make slight adjustments to your lube by adding additional Beeswax or paraffin to stiffen the lube with increased summer heat right around the corner. Keep us posted on the lube's performance.
The composition listed above will often times make a fairly soft lube. Some prefer a harder lube which can easily be obtained by adding a higher % of Beeswax.

Ben

My homebrewed lube is already fairly stiff. I used a little higher percentage of wax than your recipe, with both paraffin and carnauba added to the beeswax. Mine is about the consistency of the old Choate Lithi-Bee. I also used Ivory soap and lanolin so that probably also stiffened it up some. Always interesting to read other's results.

[94Doug]

Ben,

Have you ever just poured this through a paint strainer, like body shop would use to strain into the cup of the spraygun? #2; how about using carnuba wax flakes instead of Johnsons paste wax?

Doug

[Ben]

Doug,

I PM'd you with replies to the above.

Ben

[DragoonDrake]

Well I tried this lube in the sizer today and the lube kept shooting out the top of the die. Not around the nut but around the mandrel. Any ideas as to why and how to fix this?

Thanks Adam

[StarMetal]

Well I tried this lube in the sizer today and the lube kept shooting out the top of the die. Not around the nut but around the mandrel. Any ideas as to why and how to fix this?

Thanks Adam

Sounds like it's too thin/soft.

[94Doug]

Let me ask if this sounds reasonable... if I convert the % to "parts" I came up with a 10 - 6 - 2 -1 - 1 ratio. Parts being a volume measurement, so Tbs or Cups or even gallons. Does this sound like it would work to produce (and reproduce) the same results?

Doug

[94Doug]

ps....I stopped in and picked up some paint strainers at my parts store, it looks like the mesh might be a little fine for this process.

d

[94Doug]

Well, today I mad an attempt at Ben's recipe. I tried my parts ratio using a measure cup from laundry detergent. So far it seems to have worked out, but a few lessons learned. It is easiest to strain with paint strainers when hot, as in just after the burner is turned off. Lesson #2, do not pour into a plasitic container until it has cooled a bit, I had a fairly big mess on my hands, which luckily I had prepaired for in advance. It did melt the ice cream container. I picked up a coffee pot at a garage sale for $2 this weekend, so I am all set to go.

Doug

[Ben]

Doug :

Sounds like you're making good progress, once you get the lube into your lube sizer give us a report.

What are your observations about the lube's hardness after it has cooled , when compared to other lubes ?

You may have to adjust the %'s slightly to your own personal liking.

Ben

[Ben]

Well I tried this lube in the sizer today and the lube kept shooting out the top of the die. Not around the nut but around the mandrel. Any ideas as to why and how to fix this?

Thanks Adam

Either the lube is too thin or the ejector pin isn't a good tight fit with the sizer die or you're using too much pressure on the lube.

[94Doug]

It did seem a little soft, and a little more on the orange side. I am worried that I overcooked it a bit. I was trying to get rid of the little chunks of grease, which I eventually did. I do have some flake Carnuba, so I can add that to harden it if needed.

Doug

[Ben]

Doug :

I'd think that a little bit of your flake carnuba or some Beeswax added would get your lube just about where you want it. ( I use lubes that are a little bit softer than some would prefer, they shoot well, & leave my bore spotless)

Keep us posted with your progress.

Ben

[Bloodman14]

Picked up some R&T a few days ago; this stuff looks promising!

[Digger]

Hey there Ben ! , been using your mix in my various handgun loads and so far it's been great , nice shiny barrels , just a little flake or two when I use the brush .
One small draw back is after a fifty or so rounds I get a little build up of material at the outside crown of the barrel and a lot of smoke residue around the cylinder on the 586.
On the semi's the build up is in the action after so many rounds , may be because I load to low in power , I like soft shooting for target use.
Maybe with a little stouter loads some of it will disappear ? or maybe a little higher % of wax ? ....any how been enjoying mixing it up and using it and seeing the results , all part of the hobby , lots of fun.
Thanks for putting it out there to try ...
digger

[Ben]

Digger :

It is some good stuff, glad it is working well for you.

Best to you,

Ben

[SkookumJeff]

Alright, I've read this entire thread. Very interesting.

Can anyone tell me what the purpose is for each ingredient? I've been puzzling over this for some time now.

[Mugs]

http://www.lasc.us/LubeIngredients.htm
This will keep you reading for awhile.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Steelbanger]

Ben,

I'm just getting into cast bullets in a bolt 308 and your group has me truly impressed. Just wondering how deeply you seat that bullet in the 308 case. Of the 30 cal moulds that I own all are gas check designs and the check will be seated below the shoulder-neck junction. I figured to pull the bolt after each shot and check the bore for a stray check. Or do you think that I worry too much?

Thanks.

[stubshaft]

I can't imagine a situation where the boollit exits the barrel and the GC is left behind if using crimp on checks.

[Mugs]

I think I would look into having the throat modified to be able to seat boolits out.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Ben]

Steelbanger :

If you think about it ? ? ? When a primer ignites the powder..... Where is the pressure headed, out the mouth of the case--------, right up against the g/c of the bullet. So if the bullet is seated below the neck, as soon as pressure is built up in the case ( which is in a micro -second ), there is tremendous pressure pushing directly against the g/c regardless of it's depth relative to the bottom portion of the case neck. How can it come off ? ?

I've never worried about a g/c coming off. I've fired a " bazillion " rounds of .30 cal. cast . I've never had a reason to think that a g/c was left in the bore of one of my rifles. I'd like to ' qualify ' that statement by saying that all the g/cs were of the crimp on variety and I've never had a problem.

Ben

________________________

SkookumJeff :

The purpose for each ingredient?

I have no idea, I only know it works.

But then again, that is the way I am with a nuclear weapon,
I have no idea HOW it works, but I know it works ! !

Ben

[Swede44mag]

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II Trans. Fluid
5% STP

I've shot this lube in rifles and pistols for several yrs. now.
You'd think if I was going to have a corrosion problem, I'd have it by now.

My bores are spotless.

Life is full of choices..................

Ben

I have a couple of dumb questions to ask.

Found the Lucas Red & Tacky #2
-
What is Johnson's Paste Wax?
Is it a can of car wax like turtle wax use to come in?
Most of the car wax I have found is liquid.
-
Did not find the Dextron II Trans. Fluid. I have 3 Quarts of Dextron III Mercon.
Will it work?
-
STP shouldn't be a problem.
-
How much should I increase the Beeswax to make it harder?


I like the idea of making my own instead of having to order and wait.
I would like to use my lube heater so it is not to soft and sticky.
Dont like to have to wipe the bullets off after they are loaded.
But dont want to use a lube that is so hard that it is brittle like the stuff I bought from C&H many years ago.


Thanks for your help.

[Ben]

Swede44mag :

Here is what Johnson's paste wax looks like :

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1420111&CAWELAID=109343695

Dextron III Mercon should work fine.

I can't say exactly how much beeswax to harden the lube, you'll have to do a little bit of trial and error on your own to settle upon what your feel is the proper hardness for your own individual needs. Everyone's opinion in that arena varies from caster to caster.

Thanks,

Ben

[MikeS]

I just mixed up a lube based on Red and Tacky, basically it was half a tube of R&T, 1/2lb of paraffin, and 1oz of synthetic 2 stroke oil. After the paraffin finally melted, it all mixed together fairly well, but the R&T (and so the whole batch) never fully liquified, but rather was still really thick. Should I remelt it til it's all liquified, or is that not needed as long as all the ingredients are well mixed? It's currently in the fridge cooling, so I don't know what it's final consistency is going to be.

[Ben]

Mike,

If you slice into a piece of solid lube and find that the components are still not fully mixed into a homogeneous mixture, I'd say that it all needs to be re-heated until all the component parts blend into one.

If your different components that you used are mixed thoroughly , I'd shoot it and test the lube for performance.

[MikeS]

I just had something odd happen to me. I melted the lube again, and still couldn't get it to actually melt to a liquid state. I poured some into one of the Lee 4" lube trays, and tried to pan lube some 45 boolits I cast earlier today. The first time I reheated it on the kitchen stove (all my stuff that was outside for casting including my hot plate are semi packed away due to the hurricane headed our way), but it really smelled pretty bad, so for the second tray of boolits I went and dug out the hotplate, and set it up in a bathroom that has an external door to the back yard (which I opened to get lots of airflow), but I didn't have the pan I normally use on the hotplate, so I just put the little Lee tray directly on the heating element, and set it on low. I thought that if I let it sit on low for a while perhaps it would actually melt into a liquid. Well, after a while it started to boil sort of, while still not getting to a liquid state, then a couple of the boolits fell over (I figured that the boiling knocked them over), as soon as this happened I shut off the hotplate, and let it cool on it's own. When it was cooled I went to work cutting out the boolits, but found that a few of them wouldn't come out! It turns out that about 5 boolits MELTED, and soldered themselves to the pan! And still the Red n Tacky / paraffin mix wasn't liquid!

At this point, I'm going to say that this lube is a failure, as the few boolits that I did lube with it didn't hold the lube too well, when wiping off some excess the lube in the grooves came right out, practically falling out on it's own!

Does anyone have any thoughts on why I can't get the red n tacky to melt? I was thinking of maybe adding some beeswax to it, and maybe some lanolin. Either that, or just call it a total failure, and not throw good stuff into it, and risk ruining them too!

[Ben]

MikeS:

My thoughts for whatever they are worth to you is that I'd relegate what
you've made to use as flux for smelting, etc. I don't think I'd attempt
to add anything else to the mixture.
__________________________________

Many on the forum have made this lube , it seems to work just fine
for many of us.

You might want to try this on your next attempt. I'd also suggest that
you try a small batch, of maybe 2 lbs in total when all the components
are mixed together.

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II Trans. Fluid
5% STP

You may end up with a few clumps and lumps of red and tacky that don't
want to melt. To deal with this small problem, I've poured the liquid mixture
through an old clean cotton T shirt and ended up with some fine looking bullet lube.

Also keep in mind that many plastic containers will not hold the hot bullet lube,
they will melt causing a MAJOR mess and result in you loosing all your work.
I use the aluminum pans that you see in the photo below. You can buy them at
Wal - Mart , etc. Inexpensive and re-usable . You don't have to worry about
hot liquid lube melting them like you do the cheap plastic containers.

As you are well aware, if you're heating the lube to the point that the bullets
are melting, you've gone way beyond what is needed to mix the components.
You also run the danger of the mixture starting a fire at those temps.

My hot plate has an adjustable temp control dial. I mix the components above at the
Low - Med. heat setting. Works fine for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-41.jpg

Once I've placed the pans in the freezer and cooled the lube so that it will release from the pans, I use a utility knife to cut the lube into strips and store them in hvy plastic gallon size plastic storage bags.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-29.jpg

[kbstenberg]

I just did the math. If I am correct Bens The ingrediants for a 2 lb mixture would be.
50% BW 1lb = 16oz
30% RT .6lb = 9.6 oz
10% JPW .2lb = 3.2 oz
5% Dexron .1lb =1.6 oz
5% STP .1lb =1.6 0z
total 2lb =32 oz

[Ben]

kbstenberg :

Yes, that's good math.....I go by volume in the container, but If you're going by weight, that would all work out just fine.

An old Pyrex glass measuring cup from a thrift store is a pretty good way to measure and keep the components in their measured correct proportions.

I doubt that if any one of the ingredients was " off a little " that it would make very much difference down range.

When you make 2 lbs of this lube , You will end up doing a LOT OF SHOOTING with that 2 lbs. of lube.

When I use this lube with my .30 cal. SAECO # 315 gas checked hp, I only lube the bottom 3 lube rings, the remainer of the lube rings are empty. It shoots cleanly and very accurately at up to 2,000 fps.( although most of my shooting is in the 1,600 - 1,700 fps zone )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/SAECO%20315%20HP/006.jpg

[SSGOldfart]

Warning don't use your wife's pans,NOT A GOOD IDEAL, we won't ask how I know Hummmmmmmmmmmm.

[rintinglen]

WARNING--WARNINGThe manufacture of this product results in fumes that SWMBO finds to be an extreme an-aphrodasiac and may incite her to violence if done in the kitchen. It is a good boolit lube though.

[Ben]

If you guys want to keep your marriage in one piece, you need to read my list of over 100 things you don't need to be doing in your kitchen....making this lube is one that is on that list !

Ben

[btroj]

My list isn't that long, yet. Then again, I try not to push the envelope when doing stuff in the kitchen. I know my limitations.

[6.5 mike]

The only thing I do in the kitchen is clean my new moulds, figured that out real fast lol.

[Slingshot]

Question: How is this lube for smoke? I would like to use it for indoor pistol (38, 44, 45 etc. ) Is it less smoky then 50/50 formula?

Thanks,
Slingshot / Jeff

[Ben]

Slingshot

I have no basis to answer you question on and I'm the one who invented the lube.
I've done all my testing with the lube in rifle and pistol outdoors.

Someone who may have used it indoors may be able to help answer your question.

Ben

[Slingshot]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am gonna make a batch of it this weekend and I will post my results a little later.

Thanks,
Jeff / Slingshot

[Ben]

Good luck,

One note, most people have to make minor adjustments with the ratios.

Not everyone wants their lube the same consistency. Some like it a little softer, some harder.
If yours comes out a little soft, the next day remelt & add a little more Beeswax, that will harden the mix.

[longbow]

A reply for MikeS.

Coincidentally, I was working on a lube very similar to Ben's red but using paraffin, Lucas Red 'N Tacky grease and ivory soap.

Mine behaved similar to yours in that it tends to "foam" if overheated and seems to not fully liquefy. Mine did mix well though and came out looking like Ben's Red after cooling.

I was blaming the "foam" on the grease but maybe it is the paraffin or the mix of paraffin and grease since you are getting foaming (boiling) too.

In any case, if I heat mine slowly it does melt and is suitable for pan lubing. It softens then seems to get lumpy almost like curdles then melts more or less completely but a bit "gummy". I do have to watch the heat though as if it gets too hot the foaming starts.

Next time I am planning to try an oil rather than grease as I want it less viscous when melted. However, it works very well for me as is.

Just thought I would pass that on.

Longbow

[DeanWinchester]

I love Lucas red/tacky grease. I use it on everything from the U-joints in my Toyota to the slide rails on my XD9. I've thought often of using it in a lube formula, then I found this thread and HAD to make some. I'd like to share how I spent my sunday morning, if you will.

Instead of a hot plate, I use an old toaster oven. It heats up slower but melts things faster as it holds in all the heat. It also helps contain fumes when the door is shut; a good thing in the small shop I have.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/lube1.jpg

I melted my beeswax first and measured it in liquid form in a Pyrex© measuring cup. I converted Ben's percentage figures straight to milliliters so I measured 500ml of beeswax into a pan and added 300ml of Lucas red/tacky© and put it in the oven at around 325-350 degrees stirring every 15 minutes for 45 minutes until the clumps were very small. Using a metal spoon and mushing the clumps against the side of the hot pan will help render them down faster. While that was in the oven I melted 100ml of JPW© and then stirred it into the mix. Here's another advantage of the toaster oven, you can melt more than one container at a time. ;) I made up my mind early (pretending I was smarter than I am) NOT to add the tranny fluid and engine treatment until last for fear stirring up more smoke. After the grease was as melted as much I thought possible I added 50ml of ATF and 50ml of STP© engine treatment. Stirred well and let it heat for another 20-30 minutes, stirring occasionally.

Once all was done, I filtered it through a clean t-shirt. This I have never done in my previous concoctions, but for this recipe, it is quite important IMHO. If you'll cut the center out of a stiff plastic lid and lay it across your pan, then anchor the t-shirt material on each end, this is fairly easy though it does take a minute or two. Gently rub the bottom of the t-shirt material in a stirring motion with a spoon to keep it from coagulating.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/lube2.jpg

Toss the t-shirt material and cover the pan and allow it to cool. Freezing will obviously expedite the process but I won't be using it for a few days so I just left it (covered) on my shop bench.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/lube3.jpg

I am red/green color deficient, so I don't see colors the way the rest of you normal folks do, but to me, my batch seemed to be a little darker than Ben's photo. Molten, it looks more the color and consistency of blood. I know you'all have been calling it Ben's Red but I have added it to my record book as Bleeding Benjamin. (If you don't like the band Breaking Benjamin, you won't understand the pun)

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/lube4.jpg


I have high hopes for this stuff. I plan to use it for .308 winchester (under 1800fps) and some pretty serious John Linebaugh .45 colt loads.

[DeanWinchester]

I meant to add, I sometimes have a difficult time understanding hard data, and it's a pain in the butt to make long drawn out explanations like this, that's why people don't do it often. I really enjoy reading posts where people (right or wrong) explain in detail how they do things. Maybe my detailing my work will help another thick head like me to understand.


AND...Thanks for the recipe Ben!!!!!!

[Ben]

AND...Thanks for the recipe Ben!!!!!!

You, my friend, are very welcome.

Once it is solidified, you may ( depending on the consistency of our lube ) have to re-melt and add a little more beeswax if it needs to be harder, or if it is too hard, add a little more Red and Tacky.

Keep us posted on your results.

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

AND...Thanks for the recipe Ben!!!!!!

You, my friend, are very welcome.

Once it is solidified, you may ( depending on the consistency of our lube ) have to re-melt and add a little more beeswax if it needs to be harder, or if it is too hard, add a little more Red and Tacky.

Keep us posted on your results.

Ben

I'm thinking you're right, I will have to stiffen it up a bit more. It occurred to me just now:
Did you use yellow beeswax? I used brown, and that may be the reason for the darker color my batch resulted in.

[Ben]

Could be, my colors differ from batch to batch.

Obviously , what is important is what is happening down range and the appearance of your bore at the end of the range session.

I've found that the color of the lube has nothing to do with the above impt. 2 factors.

[DeanWinchester]

Could be, my colors differ from batch to batch.

Obviously , what is important is what is happening down range and the appearance of your bore at the end of the range session.

I've found that the color of the lube has nothing to do with the above impt. 2 factors.

Of course:D

[41 mag fan]

Can carnuba wax be used in place of the JPW? I've got 2lbs coming from randyrat with some bees wax.
Right now with me being layed up, I cant drive so my wifes going to stop & pick up the Lucas, tranny fluid and stp.
I'm trying to make it easy on her, since she's being kind enough to go get the things I need. I figured the stuff she's getting she can get on her way home from Autozone, I didn't want her running all around looking for the JPW if I can just substitute.

[DeanWinchester]

Don't see why not.

[41 mag fan]

Made my first batch of Bens Red up yesterday.
So far, it's looking good. Seems to have the consistency I'm looking for. Tacky but a little firm.
One thing I did do different is instead of using JPW, I used carnuba wax flakes I'd bought off of randy rat.
Ran into town last night and bought some JPW at Menards, think I'm going to build a jig first and make some more up today using JPW and make some lube sticks.

Thanks again Ben for the recipe and all the pm advice you gave me.

[Ben]

Made my first batch of Bens Red up yesterday.
So far, it's looking good. Seems to have the consistency I'm looking for. Tacky but a little firm.
One thing I did do different is instead of using JPW, I used carnuba wax flakes I'd bought off of randy rat.
Ran into town last night and bought some JPW at Menards, think I'm going to build a jig first and make some more up today using JPW and make some lube sticks.

Thanks again Ben for the recipe and all the pm advice you gave me.

I'm glad that things are all coming together for you on the lube.

Nothing wrong with making lube sticks.

I have a small aluminum pan with a pouring spout built into it.

I keep about 2 - 3 " of Ben's Red lube in the pan at all times. It is easy to place the pan on a hot plate, once the lube is molten ( with a low heat setting ) , pour it into the lube sizer. Works for me.

Ben

[MaxJon]

My usual blend :

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment

This is some good stuff !

Here is a photo of the Lucas Red & Tacky # 2 Grease :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/3134AGSZ1CL_SS400_.jpg

The mixture is heated on low temp setting ( melted very slowly ) on my electric hot plate until all the ingredients are mixed. The mixture is poured through an old T-Shirt, to be certain there are no impurities in the mixture. Then everything is poured into metal pans that have been lubed with Pam Spray Olive Oil.

Once the lube is room temp., it is placed in the freezer. The lube stays in the freezer for 5 hrs., It shrinks and easily falls from the metal mold pans.

I will cut this into 2 " wide strips with a sharp utility knife and place in large gallon size storage bags. I melt my lube and pour it into my 2 lube-sizers.

I hope this is a help to some of you.

By the way........there will be a lot of shooting that will come from these 2 pieces of bullet lube.

See link below to see how I pour my lube into my lube sizer :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=29088



Ben
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-28.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-41.jpg

And YES, this lube has provided me with some very accurate groups from some of my .30 rifles, here is a 5 shot group shot with the 210 gr. HCB group buy bullet, Ruger # 1 stainless, 308 Win., 18.5 grs. IMR - 4198 :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1343.jpg

Nice work Ben! I made up some moulds that cast lube sticks of the std. size to suit my RCBS lam2. I simply pour the lube into these moulds, leave set and im all good to go. they push out no probs. But i may try the freezer for better extraction.

[Ben]

The freezer will definitely help in the extraction department.
Should make getting the lube out of the molds very easy.

Ben

[sag]

Going to try making some lube today. Sounds pretty strait forward

[sharpshooter81]

Where do you get beeswax from? Its it a hardware item? Could you use parrafin wax in place of the beeswax? also, we dont have johnsons paste wax here in canada so could you use another type of car wax as long as it was in paste form??

[blackthorn]

I got my Beeswax by looking in the yellow pages (lower mainland BC).

Johnsons Paste Wax is floor wax not car wax so look in the furniture areas of stores.

[evil5826]

Not finding any Dexron 2 products since that formula has seemed to change by the manufacturer. Would Dexron 3 or 5 be ok? I assume so.

[Ben]

Dexron 3 or 5 will work just fine.

[sag]

Just thought i would chim in on the car wax. I would not recomend that due to the fact that most waxes/paste I have used on cars are made with polishing compounds witch are fine abrasives.....Just my two cents though

[Ben]

You're correct sag, we don't need any kind of abrasives in the lube.


Ben

[ubetcha]

I don't believe there is a Dexron 5.The new Dexron is Dexron VI (6) and is a synthetic atf.I don't know if it would make a difference using it in the lube.

[Ben]

I've used 2 and 3 , that is about as far as I can go with any certainty.

Ben

[btroj]

Made some lube today. Weird stuff. When it is all melted it almost looks like tomato juice with a bit of pulp.

Not at all difficult to make. I used a small scale to weight the ingredients, I figure the densities of each are probably close enough to negate any real error.

Strained it thru a perfectly serviceable pair of undies, my wife probably was going to thru the, away anyway.

Time will tell.

[RayinNH]

I made a batch about three weeks ago using Type F (Ford) transmission fluid because I had an open container. No leading and cleanup was easy. I've tried four different loads, three were quite promising. Now I just need to tinker with them. To make it a little more difficult I'm using a brand new gun in a new to me caliber, .308...Ray

[Ben]

btroj

Let us know how it works out. You may have to make some fine percentage changes to the lube recipe ( if it is too soft / add a little bit more beeswax ) to suit your own taste as to soft / hard lube.

Ben

[ubetcha]

I tried making Ben's Red today .I think I added too much STP.mix is very soft and sticky.When you touch it and pull your finger away it is stringy like if you put your finger in the STP and pulled it out.It also STINKS.I have it in my garage and it is stinking the whole place up.I stopped at Wally World and bought some Mystic JT grease to use. I read a post from Wiljen that polyurea based grease binds to steel and continues to build up and in a sense startes to reduce the bore.I feel that i would take a long time to do this though.He stated that darn near nothing removes it again.

[Ole]

I made my first batch today. Everything turned out well, except I have some little lumps of the Red N Tacky that didn't seem to want to melt down. They are pretty small. I used a double boiler setup because I had to make the initial batch indoors.

I will filter the lube through a Tshirt if the specks of red N Tacky cause problems. Otherwise, I'll just leave them in there. I usually pan lube and my gut says these small clumps will eventually melt out of the mix and join the party.

[btroj]

I will say that the lube has a particular odor to it. Time will tell if that is an issue or not.

I have high hopes, now I just need to wait for better weather to test it out.

[ubetcha]

I think for right now I will use some of Ed Harris's lube recipe's. 3 to 4 parts beeswax to 1 part Dexron ATF.4 part bw for lubersizer or 3 parts of bw for pan lube.Adjust amount of beeswax as needed for hardness.Maybe I'll work with the Ben's Red at a different time.The stuff I made just STINKS as in smells terrible

[Ben]

ubetcha

I stopped at Wally World and bought some Mystic JT grease to use

Did you use Lucas Red and Tacky grease or the Mystic JT grease ? If you didn't use the Lucas, you don't have Ben's Red.

Ben

[41 mag fan]

One way to get the lumps out is to use a whisk. Slowly heat Bens Red up, after the beeswax is melted, add the Lucas and Johnson and STP in then and use a wooden spoon then a whisk.
I spent 45 min, getting mine heated up to where it just started to smoke a little, then shut off heat and strained. Very little lumps were present when using the whisk, aas compared to the first batch I made where I just used a wooden spoon.
Hope this will help some out who want to try and make some up.

[Ben]

Yes,.....41 Mag, you have the sequence down pat.

It takes time and heat and physical action to get all those tiny lumps into a liquid. Many choose to pour it through an old clean white cotton T Shirt to remedy the problem of the small lumps.

Ben

[41 mag fan]

Thanks Ben, I've experimented with 3 different batches. But not on the ingredients. Except...when I used stp gas treatment instead of the oil treatment. Which that was my first batch ever made, I remelted and added the oil treatment to the rest I had left, after I'd used it to lube up around 800 45ACP boolits.

When using a whisk, it'll get almost all lumps out. Plus when using a tee shirt to strain, I rubber banded it around a small pail, and poured it. I'd get the tee shirt full and use the whisk to help push it thru the tee shirt, and it helps to squeeze any lumps out and into the lube also.

[ubetcha]

Ben
I used the Mystic JT,but I do have a tube of Lucas to try.I do think my odor concern is due to the excesive amount of STP used.I tryed to make a 1lb batch using mililitre measurements.That is 250ml bw,150 ml grease,100ml JPW,25ml STP and 25ml ATF.I did n't have anything to measure 25ml so I converted to OZ and then to teaspoons.I believe 25ml=1.6oz=9.6ts.Trying to measure STP by the teaspoon s not easy due to the thickness of the STP and it just kind of glops out.I may have over done it . The odor is definitly STP.My concern about using Lucas is what was stated by Wiljen on a different post about the use of polyurea based grease being that it binds to the steel and builds up and evenually reduces the bore.And the statement that its hard to remove.How long it take for this to happen I don't know

[btroj]

There are roughly 30 ml per fluid ounce. That is close enough for our use. I can't imagine that being off by 1% or so on any ingredient would make much difference.

I went with weight as a measure as I have a postal scale that made that easy. The densities of the various components should all be close enough to remove and large errors. I figure all the ingredients would floats on water so they all have a density less than one so they can't vary by much.

I don't know where the odor comes from, it is distinct. I doubt it will be much of an issue for me, I just won't be making the stuff in the house! Ever.

[41 mag fan]

Ben
I used the Mystic JT,but I do have a tube of Lucas to try.I do think my odor concern is due to the excesive amount of STP used.I tryed to make a 1lb batch using mililitre measurements.That is 250ml bw,150 ml grease,100ml JPW,25ml STP and 25ml ATF.I did n't have anything to measure 25ml so I converted to OZ and then to teaspoons.I believe 25ml=1.6oz=9.6ts.Trying to measure STP by the teaspoon s not easy due to the thickness of the STP and it just kind of glops out.I may have over done it . The odor is definitly STP.My concern about using Lucas is what was stated by Wiljen on a different post about the use of polyurea based grease being that it binds to the steel and builds up and evenually reduces the bore.And the statement that its hard to remove.How long it take for this to happen I don't know

I would bet the build up wouldn't be noticed. You'd burn the barrel out first. The urea arena, if I'm correct is like ammonia based, heat evaporates it. But I could be wrong on all this too.
When I made mine up, I used a pyrex and spatula. Theres a post on this thread about what how much to use to make one batch using the ounce method.

[41 mag fan]

There are roughly 30 ml per fluid ounce. That is close enough for our use. I can't imagine that being off by 1% or so on any ingredient would make much difference.

I went with weight as a measure as I have a postal scale that made that easy. The densities of the various components should all be close enough to remove and large errors. I figure all the ingredients would floats on water so they all have a density less than one so they can't vary by much.

I don't know where the odor comes from, it is distinct. I doubt it will be much of an issue for me, I just won't be making the stuff in the house! Ever.

You can make some up and add some carnuba flakes in it to stiffen up the lube. I did this also to my first batch, (I'd forgotten till now I'd done it). But I don't believe I added enough to make the lube less tacky. So the 1% wont I think make much difference
There is an odor, but I didn't find it offensive. I made mine in the garage with the door open using my hot plate. I've cooked suppers that smelled worse!!
The bees wax though was a nice smell, while it was melting.

[Forrest r]

I don’t know if I got lucky or what I used to make Ben’s Red lube in helped. I didn’t have any lumps in the double batch that I made & I just used a paint stirring stick to blend/mix everything.

I went to a local second hand store (Salvation Army) and bought an adjustable electric wok for $3. I set the wok on medium high heat & added the Lucas red & tacky and put the lid on. When it got hot enough to start smoking I added the JP wax, STP & Dextron and stirred/blended everything together. Then I added the bees wax & put the lid back on for a couple of minutes. The bees wax had melted by then & I just stirred/blended everything together & covered it back up. When the mixture got hot enough to just start smoking again I shut the wok off & stirred/blended everything 1 last time & poured the mixture into tins like Ben did to cool.

It was that easy; I followed the recipe & didn’t have any problems with lumps, too runny, too sticky or anything else. I cut the finished product into pieces & put them in a small can to melt when I want to refill the Lyman 450.

I don’t know, maybe I making mine with a little more heat (hotter) than most people. The heat was extremely easy to control in the wok & I did get the red & tacky real hot before I did anything else.

[ubetcha]

One thing I didn't mention was that I had alot of foam on top of the mix.It did not dissipate either.It stunk up my garage so bad I had to put the pan outside over night and open all the garage doors this morning to air it out.Maybe some of the problems maybe due to the use of the Mystic JT6 grease and not using Lucas.May try again using the proper ingredients listed and measuring properly.Also be more careful on using the STP

[41 mag fan]

One thing I didn't mention was that I had alot of foam on top of the mix.It did not dissipate either.It stunk up my garage so bad I had to put the pan outside over night and open all the garage doors this morning to air it out.Maybe some of the problems maybe due to the use of the Mystic JT6 grease and not using Lucas.May try again using the proper ingredients listed and measuring properly.Also be more careful on using the STP

I'd bet it's the Mystic. I never had any foam on mine.
I was impressed when I made my batches and lubed my cast and went to town on trying them out. Good groups, no leading, easy clean up.

Besides, I found this is another hobby within the hobby within the hobby.
I actually enjoyed making batches up.

[Ben]

ubetcha


Mystic may not be your friend.

Of course I never hinted or implied that this was something you could do in your kitchen and keep a marriage together.

Just for the record , all my lube making is done outside.
__________________________________________________ _

An as to adverse side effects, one fellow told me ( if I used Ben's Red ) that my bores would rust over night....truth is I've fired my cast rounds with Ben's Red Lube, put my rifles and handguns aside with no attempt to clean them and come back to them months later. The carbon deposits from the powder burn are still soft, very easy to clean months later. As to rust, NONE ! !
__________________________________________________ _

As to a layer of something attaching to barrel steel. I'm in about my 4th yr with Ben's Red., of course I don't have any of the measuring instruments that NASA uses, but I cannot determine any changes in anything with any of my rifles or handguns nor have I had any reports from the many people who make Ben's Red and use it on a regular basis ? ? ?

Please remember that the Lucas Red and Tacky is only 30% of the mix, that leaves 70% of other things , if my math is correct.

Ben

[ubetcha]

I will definitely try again.This time using the correct ingredients and amounts.Seem alot of people like Ben's Red.When adding the Lucas,do you just measure out the grease into a measuring cup or try and melt it first for a liquid measurment.Same as the JPW.A measured amount or melted amount

[fryboy]

i studied this long and hard ( yeah i know ...study long study wrong ) the first thing i did was put the portions into a easy to divide format , such as 1,2,3, 5 and 10# batches , 3#'s seems to be about a whole tube of red n tacky ( just a lil over actually) so i'll share it below , the difference is 4 tenths of an ounce less red n tacky which in my batch shouldnt hurt and in fact made it just a wee bit firmer ( never a bad thing in my brutal summertime ) so for the 3# batch ingredients as follows

24 oz. beeswax ( 1 1/2 # )
14.4 oz. red n tacky ( i used the straight 14 oz tube )
4.8 oz JPW ( fresh not reduced )
2.4 oz dexron II
2.4 oz stp

i did take the liberty of adding 1/2 oz of lanolin USP to sort of make up for the .4 oz shy of red n tacky , yeah making it outside would of been best :P thankfully no one complained as i'm single and the pup ...well she was hoping it was going to be something good to eat but was rather disappointed by sniffing the pan :P

[Ben]

Sounds to me like fryboy has all his bases covered.

Ben

[Ole]

I have to redo my pan lubing procedure if I want to use this lube.

The bullets were way too close for Ben's red to flow around them.

So I either have to heat the lube hotter or set up the bullets in my pan with more space in between them.

I'll figure it out sooner or later. :)

I do really like this lube though. It's sticky as all heck.

[btroj]

I sized 100 or so NOE 311165 RD with mine today. Who knows when I will get a chance to shoot them.
No heat is needed with the lube, that's for certain.

[Ben]

I think it goes without saying , BUT..... if you guys want a harder lube, just add a higher % of beeswax and you'll have it.

Ben

[btroj]

It does go without saying Ben. I just wanted to give it a shot thru the sizer E'yore making any changes.
I think I will go back and add maybe 5 percent more beeswax. Possibly 10 percent even.
I think what I have now will be an excellent lune, it certainly feels that way on my hands. I prefer to take it slow and see what I have before making changes. Only way to know is to shoot some.

[Ben]

btroj

Very True, my old granddaddy always told me to measure twice and cut once.
You're going slow and testing prior to making a bunch of changes....Wise, Very wise !
You'll ( in time ) eventually end up with a formula that meets your needs to the " T ".

Ben

[1Shirt]

Btroj gave me a good size block of Ben's formula, and a block of green (can't think off the top who's formula it is). He is looking for a lube that will work well year round in Ne. weather. I really like White Lable, canuba red, for most of the year, but at any temp much below 50 degrees, it takes about two or three shots to warm the bbl up and shoot accurately. Does great above 50 degrees and have shot it up to close to 100 with no problem. Think I will try both Ben's and the green pan lubing, cake cutting, and sizing via lee push thrus. Haven't pan lubed and cake cut for a number of years. It is good once in awhile to revert back to basics.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Ben]

back to basics.........You bet....would do us all a lot of
good to do that in a variety of areas in our lives.

Ben

[KaliforniaRebel]

I know i'm a bit new, but I made this mess today and have to admit it's slick. Literally. Took me 10 minutes to get the stuff of my hands with a scraper and mechanic soap.

You're absolutely right about keeping the heat down. I scorched it a bit with the second batch and like more burgundy now then the nice normal hue of the first one.

I think "Bens Royal Red" or "Bens Big Red" both had a nice sound to 'em. :D Just one possible perspective.

[Ben]

I made this mess today





I like your terminology.

Ben

[ubetcha]

:That's maybe what's wrong! I measured one and cut twice like I always do.[smilie=b:

[ubetcha]

Fryboy
are your" oz" you posted in liquid measurements or weight measurements?I know i'm starting to anal about this but I want to do this right this time

[fryboy]

Fryboy
are your" oz" you posted in liquid measurements or weight measurements?I know i'm starting to anal about this but I want to do this right this time

i used actual weight ( i have this lil handy scale that only weighs up to 3 pounds lolz ) i poured the liquid stuff into a lil measuring glass ( i bought at walmart ) sitting on the scale , it has fluid oz graduated on the side , for the most part none of the liquid oz. varied much from the actual weight ( not enough to matter anyways ( as pointed out before if it's a lil soft for your taste add beeswax , too firm add a lil more of one of the umm more liquid ingredients ) as noted in his original post (plural) ben used volume , i havent made it enough to have the neat lil lines scratched into my measure yet , not sure i want to scratch that glass anyways lolz and i also figured that i made enough " base recipe " to last for some time , i may have to add a lil wax for my summer or a lil grease or something for my equally brutal winter ( gotta love the weather out here on the open plains - both extremes and often real close together [doh] ) because i made so much i am also contemplating offering a few lube sample packs like i did once before ( four 1# packages with four 1/4 # cakes of four different lubes ) but i want to shoot a bit more of this before i do in case i want to adjust it , last time they didnt last long and four fellers got a deal and a chance to try some different lubes without having to make them lolz , allow me to post a link to a mid-thread comment by ben that should help

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1373495&postcount=88

[Ben]

fryboy,

I compliment you on your " kitchen chemistry ", very good, very good logic .

_________________________________

For the people who are having problems with making this lube, I'm sorry, but if
you " stay with the program" , it is a proven lube with proven results. For most
people who have tried to make the lube, it is very easy done.

I'll be the 1st one to admit that depending on your personal preferences for lube
hardness, etc, the air temperatures in your area, etc, very minor changes in the
lube recipe may be needed.

However, if one follows the steps and doesn't make random substitutions and / or
dramatic percentage changes in the components, the final product will be
a good lube.

Ben

[fryboy]

you humble me amigo , gracias ( gee you should try me "fry's raisin rye" bread - now that's some edible kitchen chemistry , and how ! smells a bit better too , prolly wouldn't do very well as a lube tho :P )

[jah141]

New here so please excuse my question Is the Bens Red useable for pan lubeing.

[Ben]

jah141

WELCOME ! !

You bet. Take a look at this link , Ben's Red can be easily substituted for the lube in the link below :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34058

Ben

( The orig. lube formula for Ben's Red usually makes a soft lube that is very useful for pan lubing, it will sometimes need to be hardened a bit with a higher % of beeswax for those that like a harder lube.)

[runfiverun]

i'm gonna throw this in here just so the next guy's that come along know.

re-melting most lubes will help them.
don't burn the lube.
don't be afraid to change the lube to suit your on target results,temperature, or the lubes final viscosity.
don't make 20 lbs of lube at once.
unless it's the only lube you have ever used and plan on using forever.
write down what you used to make the lube and the proportions.
don't use the wifes utensils/appliances to make lube,i don't care who payed for them they are her's.
plan ahead.. have a way to store your lube, and get it into the lubrisizer,or the pan you are gonna lube in.
and have a way to store it.
if you melt the lube outdoors you will attract bees if melting beeswax, you will attract children if melting anything.
and lastly.
just cause it's slickery don't mean it will make good lube.

[44 WCF]

You may have answered but I couldn't find it. Is you % of ingrediendts by volume or by weight.

Thanks

[Ben]

44 WCF


I'm not certain who " You " is ? ?, but I'll respond with something that I offered someone else here on the forum who was making Ben's Red and had similar questions that you have . Below is the response I made in a thread on Aug. of 2011, Maybe the statement below will be a help to you with your question above...............

I go by volume in the container, but If you're going by weight, that would all work out just fine.

An old Pyrex glass measuring cup from a thrift store is a pretty good way to measure and keep the components in their measured correct proportions.

I doubt that if any one of the ingredients was " off a little " that it would make very much difference down range.

[ubetcha]

Well I retryed Ben's Red this morning using the correct ingredeneces and measurements.It came out great and no odor. I can stick my nose dang near into it and only smell beeswax.I used a double boiler and worked slow.One thing that I think made a big difference was I had NO lumps because I used a whisk to blend everything together.No need for filtering.Thanks for everyone's help and advise.Now to cast up some boolits and lube and size.Everthing was measured in liquid form except the R&T.That was plopped into the measuring cup until I had about 300ml

[Ben]

ubetcha

I'm glad " that you got the train back up on the tracks "....now give us a range report when you have an opportunity to test the lube.

Thanks,

Ben

[midnight]

I made about 40 sticks of Ben's Red last week and it gave me an idea (always a dangerous thing). I had a whole bunch of "muffins" of what was called Barry Darr's formula lube. It was just 50% parafin & 50% vaselene. I used it like the parafin was the beeswax, vaselene was the Lucas red & tacky and then added the appropriate amounts of Johnson's paste wax, ATF, & STP. Of course it came out pink. I'll have to call it Bob's Pink. I hope it works cuz I've got 42 sticks of it. At least the mold I made with PVC and steel rods let me make 6 sticks at a time.

Bob

[gwpercle]

I wanted to make a batch using one 14 0z. tube of Lucas Red " N " Tacky, cause thats the way it's sold. Got my calculator and measuring cups out and worked out the following recipe.

Everything is measured in its liquid state, shown in liquid ounces and cup or tablespoon measure. I melt the ingredient and measure with Pyrex measuring cups ( not the wife's but dedicated lube measures )

BEN'S RED

24 ozs. = 3 cups - melted beeswax
14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - Lucas Red " N " Tacky grease ( 1- 14 oz. tube )
4.6 ozs. = 2/3 cup - Johnson Paste Wax - melted
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - S. T. P. Oil Treatment
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - Dexron II or III Automatic Trans. Fluid

Note : 1/3 cup is equal to 5-tablespoons + 1 teaspoon. ATF and STP can be measured with spoons easier than than cup.
If you want a larger batch simply double all measurements.

Hope this helps you fellow lube makers.. and a big THANK YOU to Ben for sharing his majic formula with us.....gary
P. S. this is the original formula based on 50% / 30% / 10% / 5% / 5%.

[41 mag fan]

i'm gonna throw this in here just so the next guy's that come along know.

don't use the wifes utensils/appliances to make lube,i don't care who payed for them they are her's.


I found out RFR...to use the wifes utensils.....you do one thing.

YOU BUY A REPLACEMENT THATS MORE EXPENSIVE!!!!

I capitalized all that for fellow members to head off a disaster in the making.
Don't ask how I know this one.
I still have the goose eggs on my head from the pot I used to clean my 223 brass in.....it happened once....I'll never do it again

[gwpercle]

Sounds like 41 mag fan speaks from the voice of experience. I asked my wife if she would like some NEW pyrex measuring cups cause her old ones were a bit chipped and worn BEFORE I used them, and she said yes , then I asked for the old ones and she gave them to me....I didn't get in trouble... us old dogs can learn.

I'm a 41 mag. fan also... got a S & W model 58 that I enjoy more than any other gun I own...... gary

[Ben]

Gary :

Thanks for sharing.

That is great.

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

This is by far the best lube I've ever used. Been using it since just before Christmas in everything from bunny fart loads to some that make me flinch. Zero leading. The only thing I notice is a greasy residue on the cylinder of my revolver. Its pretty thick after a hundred rounds or so. Its cool though, it wipes right off and leaves it nice and shinny.

[41 mag fan]

Sounds like 41 mag fan speaks from the voice of experience. I asked my wife if she would like some NEW pyrex measuring cups cause her old ones were a bit chipped and worn BEFORE I used them, and she said yes , then I asked for the old ones and she gave them to me....I didn't get in trouble... us old dogs can learn.

I'm a 41 mag. fan also... got a S & W model 58 that I enjoy more than any other gun I own...... gary


Gary...I still got the goose eggs on my head still...and that was from last fall!!
That cheap $20 pot, cost me $60 and 3 lumps.
Now when I go thru her kitchen to the shop in her garage, I keep my eyes down and my hands at my sides. I don't dare look up and look her in the eyes.
Last time I did that was 10 yrs ago, it scared me so bad, I peed right down my leg.

I have to say though, I'm thankful for the lumps, it reminds me whose the boss and wears the pants around here. I get a reminder every morning, when she lets me out of my cage for the day and I go comb my hair, in her bathroom!!

The 41 mag is an awesome caliber. You have a wide range of velocities, that'll mirror the 44 mag, without the recoil. I've got 3 pistols in this caliber, but no mold..yet, to try using Bens Red with them.

[Ben]

DeanWinchester :

I've also noticed that, I used some mineral spirits on an old T- Shirt, cleans up in seconds. No problems.

Thanks for your kind remarks about Ben's Red.

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

DeanWinchester :

I've also noticed that, I used some mineral spirits on an old T- Shirt, cleans up in seconds. No problems.

Thanks for your kind remarks about Ben's Red.

Ben

Yeah, I figure if it works as well as it does and that's it's biggest detriment, boo hoo cry me a river. Funny, I just put a load in the toaster oven to melt. I'm pan lubing 358429's all day. Ain't they purty?

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/38Norma.jpg

[Ben]

You'll have some fun shooting those 429's. A great bullet.

I bet if you remove them while they are still slightly warm to the touch, they come out of the lube real easy.

Since you enjoy pan lubing, have you read my article on CastPics ?

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/Lube%20-%20Size%20on%20a%20Budget.pdf

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

That's pretty close to how I do it. I use an old shell casing too, but I use a 30/06 with the base cut off and then I open up the mouth to the needed diameter. Then as you cut them out, they come out the top. Run them through my Lee sizer and they're perfect.

One thing I do is GENTLY cut out the boolits and not disturb the lube as a whole. Then there's fifty little holes in the pan of lube so just stick more boolits in the empty spaces, toss a small sliver of lube in one corner and pop them back in my toaster oven on 275 for a few minutes. Open the door and set my manicurist fan up to cool them quickly.


That's a great article Ben. I actually PREFER to do it this way. I've had a few lubrizers and I sold them and pan lube now. Maybe it ain't as fast, but I'm happy. I just like it better. Of course, I shoot so I can reload. Most people reload so they can shoot. I'm nothing if not assbackwards.

[Ben]

You have a nice , reliable , low tech , lube / size system that works flawlessly.

That's Great , thanks for sharing ! !

I shoot a " cousin " to your bullet made by Mountain Molds and Hp'd by Buckshot :



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/006-12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/010-8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/011-10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/012-9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/015-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/016-5.jpg

I'll be shooting a lot of these in my 1894 Marlin, 38 Spec. CBC ( with Ballard rifling ) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Marlin%2038%20Special/PICT0003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Marlin%2038%20Special/PICT0007.jpg

[41 mag fan]

BEN....that's a nice looking rifle you got there.


DeanWinchester......That's a very nifty idea using a toaster oven to warm up Bens Red. I've been thinking of trying pan lubing with some. The 30-06 cartridge and the toaster oven esp are really good ideas.



That's pretty close to how I do it. I use an old shell casing too, but I use a 30/06 with the base cut off and then I open up the mouth to the needed diameter. Then as you cut them out, they come out the top. Run them through my Lee sizer and they're perfect.

One thing I do is GENTLY cut out the boolits and not disturb the lube as a whole. Then there's fifty little holes in the pan of lube so just stick more boolits in the empty spaces, toss a small sliver of lube in one corner and pop them back in my toaster oven on 275 for a few minutes. Open the door and set my manicurist fan up to cool them quickly.


That's a great article Ben. I actually PREFER to do it this way. I've had a few lubrizers and I sold them and pan lube now. Maybe it ain't as fast, but I'm happy. I just like it better. Of course, I shoot so I can reload. Most people reload so they can shoot. I'm nothing if not assbackwards.

[DeanWinchester]

Nice Ben, very nice. I hate to complain because mine throws such a nice boolit, but the 358429 is supposed to be 170g. Mine fall a VERY consistent 161g. They are within 1g of each other after the mold is hot. I have to pressure cast these too or they will NOT fill out, so they're slow going.

[Ben]

DeanWinchester


My Mountain Molds Keith Style 170 gr. mikes full diameter on all the bands , a lot of Lyman's won't do that. That is one of the reasons that I sold my 358429 molds. The front band on mine ran about .355 " Have you ever miked the front band and compared that reading with the rest of the drive bands ?

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

Oh you're spot on Ben, I size mine .358 and the die just barely kisses the rear and middle. The portion forward of the crimp groove runs .354

This is the reason I cast them dead soft in the hopes they swell when fired. I run them about 1050fps out of an SP101 with no leading. They were pretty accurate but that load in that pistol was not very pleasant. I sold the pistol.

I'm trying these 38's out in a Blackhawk this weekend. If they work, I may come home with it. You know you like reloading when you load for .38 but you don't even own one anymore!!!

[Ben]

Can't go wrong shooting a nice accurate 38 Special.

Ben

[joe4711]

I've just read thru all 9 pages of this thread, funny how people complain the lube does'nt work when they make all kinds of changes to the recipe.
Ben I take my hat of to you for staying cool, calm and collected through all of this time and explaining the same thing over and over.
I will be making my first batch of" Bens Red" soon.
Joe M

[Ben]

Thanks Joe M

I'm here to help.

I have no interest in making a single penny from Ben's Red. It is a good lube and " It is Free for the Taking and Making ."

I want to offer credit to several other shooters ( I would begin naming names but I fear that I might leave someone out ) here on the forum who have fine tuned Ben's Red and worked with simpler ways to measure out the ingredients. They should be given credit for helping Ben's Red along also.

I get a lot of satisfaction out of the many shooters kind words who make it and use it.

Ben

[Just Duke]

My usual blend :

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment

This is some good stuff !

Here is a photo of the Lucas Red & Tacky # 2 Grease :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/3134AGSZ1CL_SS400_.jpg

The mixture is heated on low temp setting ( melted very slowly ) on my electric hot plate until all the ingredients are mixed. The mixture is poured through an old T-Shirt, to be certain there are no impurities in the mixture. Then everything is poured into metal pans that have been lubed with Pam Spray Olive Oil.

Once the lube is room temp., it is placed in the freezer. The lube stays in the freezer for 5 hrs., It shrinks and easily falls from the metal mold pans.

I will cut this into 2 " wide strips with a sharp utility knife and place in large gallon size storage bags. I melt my lube and pour it into my 2 lube-sizers.

I hope this is a help to some of you.

By the way........there will be a lot of shooting that will come from these 2 pieces of bullet lube.

See link below to see how I pour my lube into my lube sizer :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=146302


Ben
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-28.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-41.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-29.jpg

And YES, this lube has provided me with some very accurate groups from some of my .30 rifles, here is a 5 shot group shot with the 210 gr. HCB group buy bullet, Ruger # 1 stainless, 308 Win., 18.5 grs. IMR - 4198 :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1343.jpg

Good info.

[6bg6ga]

So, how does this break down as far as ounce measurement? Do you for example start with 8oz of beeswax?

Also can soy wax be substituted for beeswax?

[6bg6ga]

I pour my lube into PVC pipe with a cap on the bottom of it and simply let it harden up. Once its hard I simply pull the cover off the bottom of the PVC pipe and push the perfectly formed stick out and cut to desired length. My tubes are long enough to make 3 lube sticks that will fit nicely into your Star/Magma or Ballisti-Cast Mark VI sizer.

[myg30]

Page 5 has the breakdown in ozs. for you. On a crappy day, read the whole thread. Its worth it. Over a coffee or beer just don't keep it close to the lap top so when you laugh you don't spill your drink into it.
Some Married men will never learn and others will read the whole thread and keep on being married !
****I will share this note with you incase you don't read the thread, MAKE IT OUTSIDE, NOT IN THE KITCHEN [ or bathroom]*** you just cant make this stuff up what guys try to do, its great !!

I just got my order from white label lubes yesterday. After reading here I might just make some for the fun of it to try. Thank you Ben and all the others for making it easy for us non-chemist types to do. After all, we cast our own, reload our own we lube our own we make our own. Just saying.

Merry Christmas to all,

Mike

[Ben]

Page 5 has the breakdown in ozs. for you. On a crappy day, read the whole thread. Its worth it. Over a coffee or beer just don't keep it close to the lap top so when you laugh you don't spill your drink into it.
Some Married men will never learn and others will read the whole thread and keep on being married !
****I will share this note with you incase you don't read the thread, MAKE IT OUTSIDE, NOT IN THE KITCHEN [ or bathroom]*** you just cant make this stuff up what guys try to do, its great !!

I just got my order from white label lubes yesterday. After reading here I might just make some for the fun of it to try. Thank you Ben and all the others for making it easy for us non-chemist types to do. After all, we cast our own, reload our own we lube our own we make our own. Just saying.

Merry Christmas to all,

Mike

Merry Christmas to you also Mike !

That's pretty much my view also.
If I'm going to cast my own, reload my own, why not make my own lube also ?

Ben

[Gtek]

Well I think I am going to try some Ben's Red. One little thing I made up that really seemed to help making lubes with the lumps/clumps with Moly. I took an old coat hanger (remember the metal ones) and made "T", 1/8" welding rod would do. Bent 90% for 1/2", then back 180 for an 1", then back a 1/2" cut making two rounded ends. Cut shaft about 4" and stuck in Battery drill and playing for correct speed whip around in melt. No more lumps. Gtek

[afish4570]

Just discovered that the local Walmart stocks the Lucas Red & Tacky # 5 if you are looking for a source. afish4570

[hogstad7]

I want to try some Bens red. But I live in Norway, so i have to substitude some ingrediences.
Can I use regular wheel bearing grease or any lithium grease as a substitude for Red n`tacky?
Can I substitude STP with Lee Liquid Alox?

I will be using Liberon Black Bison as a replacement of JPW.

Im now using BAC and loving it, how will Bens Red compare to BAC?

[Digger]

Okay ....
the time has come to make another batch of Ben's Red here , thought my first would last for ever ..
Doesn't help having three lyman 45's ,one seaco , one Meepos and one Star ...:oops:
Have really enjoyed the results with my rifles and hand guns , most enjoyable now that I top off with a coat of BLL !

[35 shooter]

Wow, that reminds me i've got to make some more Ben's Red too. I've been using so much of Ben's BLL lube since it came out, i've run completely out of Ben's Red.

Ben hit a homerun with both of these great lubes!

One big batch of Ben's Red does last a long time, but yeah, there does come a time to make more!!

[charlie b]

249526249527

Thanks Ben for all of this. I used to cast a LOT of bullets and am now getting back to it. My Savage 12BVSS in .308 is well broken in and was cleaned of all copper. I started with some commercial cast bullets from Montana Bullet Works to see if there was any promise in this endeavor. There was. So, just for something to get going I bought a Lee C309-180 mold and have some hardball alloy melted up.

I needed some lube so went ahead and made some Ben's Red and some 45-45-10 LL.

The above were some of the first loads shot with the lube. The Blue Dot load I use for plinking at 100yd (it recoils less than a .22 rimfire) and the 'heavy' load is for longer distances (I don't hunt).

To say I am pleased is an understatement.

[brnomauser]

Join Date
Sep 2010
Location
NSW, Australia
Posts
83
Bit of an older thread but I feel it’s better to keep relevant info in one place...
I’m in Australia so not all ingredients are available so my questions are about substitutes:
1- JPW is flat out unavailable here - is any canauba/beeswax based polish suitable?
2- Lucas red n tacky is very hard to get, is any HP lithium based auto grease ok?
3- I can’t find STP but do have Morey’s oil stabiliser, is it suitable? https://www.moreyoil.co.nz/moreys-he...il-stabilizer/

Many thanks - looking forward to trying this highly recommended lube in 222, 303, 30-06 and 45-70 both very light and medium/high loads

[wmitty]

In post nine Ben was explaining that he was measuring the different components by volume rather than weight. A number of those posting were of the opinion that weighing the components was easier than measuring by volume. The Red n Tacky is very difficult / dangerous to measure by volume due to the high temperature of the liquid grease when melted. Probably easier to measure it in the tube and use the pi times radius squared x ht formula but then you have to dig down in the tube to some not easily determined point and dig the grease out with a spoon or whatever’s laying around.
Anyway, I went to the different components material safety date sheets and found the specific gravity of each and then calculated the error if the components are weighed rather than measured by volume. It ain’t much…..


Bees wax Sp. Gr. .96
Red and Tacky. Sp. Gr. .90
Johnson’s paste wax Sp. Gr. .80
Devcon 3 ATF Sp. Gr. .86.
STP oil stabilizer. Sp. Gr. .885.

Total weight will be 1000 grams but the volume will be 1093.7 ml or 1.094 liters

500 grams of beeswax yields 520.8 ml
300 grams of Red and Tacky yields 333.3 ml
100 grams of Johnson’s paste wax yields 125 ml
50 grams of devcon ATF yields 58.1 ml
50 grams of STP yields 56.5 ml

Instead of the 50/30/10/5/5 % by volume, we wind up with 47.6/30.5/11.4/5.3/5.2 % by volume. Like Ben and several others said, not enough difference to matter, but it had been bothering me since Ben posted the recipe that some of us jumped in and weighed the components without taking the specific gravities into account. Turned out it didn’t matter!

[wmitty]

Went back today and checked the weight and volume of the Red and Tacky grease in a cylinder with both ends removed. The specific gravity worked out to be .916 rather than the .90 shown by Lucas ( the manufacturer). Negligible difference as far as weighing rather than determining volume.