Cast VS. Jacketed

[Brl]

Okay, this is a very "newbie" question (as my first post) from someone who is interested in beginning to load cast bullets. I ask because I get a lot of mixed information regarding the topic.

Firstly, how is the performance of cast bullets on game, compared to jacketed? Is there a performance benefit? Expand better than jacketed, not expand but penetrate better? Etc. What are the performance benefits (or hinderances), not cost or "fun" benefits?

I have seen hunters talk about rifle loads (let's use .30 as an example) of 1500 - 2000 feet per second with a 150 - 170 grain bullet. That sound awfully light. Is it the cast bullet that allows for the success of that light load? I don't hear anyone loading a jacketed bullet like that. I am intersted in loading light recoiling loads that I can shoot at the range all day and hunt with successfully for deer & hog. I am interested in .30-06 and 7mm-08.

I think I understand the reasoning behind the handgun calibers and cast. I plan on loading .41 mag and .44 mag with 250 - 300 grain loads at 1,000 - 1,300 fps. Again, for deer and hogs.

Lastly, I don't plan on casting my own. Does anyone have a few suggestions for a commercial cast company/companies?

Thank you for any help and suggestions!!!

[onceabull]

Brl: two suppliers that come to mind for RIFLE boolits are Western bullet in Missoula,MT, and our fellow member here, Bullshop. There are sundry others with fans,and naysayers. But these two I've personal exp.with and can endorse.. My pistol shooting is pretty casual,so rather than paying freight,I hit a nearby gunshow 1-2 yearly for anything I'm not set up to cast myself. Welcome, good luck,and enjoy this board...:) onceabull

[35remington]

I think you'll find a lot of those mild loads with cast bullets that are used by the shooters here for hunting toss a hefty or large diameter bullet, often 30 plus caliber and over 150 grains weight. At 2000 fps you're pretty close to .30-30 ballistics, and that will do nicely for deer if the range isn't stretched too far.

Mostly, what most of us do is make "woods loads" out of our cast bullet guns. Not for super distances, but for most average deer hunting. As long as these bullets are pushed within a range where they'll perform adequately, "mild" is relative. They're deadly to deer, and 3000 fps isn't necessary or desirable. Bullet shape, alloy and hardness can be varied to affect terminal results over a wide range of velocities, and that's the whole point for the cast bullet hunter.

I don't know that you can state that cast bullets surpass jacketed bullets in rifles in the expansion/penetration sense, but they can do well enough for the jobs that need doing. As for handguns, I would agree that cast bullets may be better than jacketed in some instances.

[waksupi]

Brl, welcome aboard.
The cast bullets will perform admirably on game. I have probably taken fourty head of larger game with cast bullets, ranging from antelope, to buffalo, plus lots of small game. Get a bullet that fits our bore, with a good, wide nose on it. And, it will kill what you point it at, assuming it is pointed judiciously. Gut shoot something, and they will be as effective as any jacketed bullet you may use.
In my opinion, cast bullets are for experienced, calm hunters, who will pick thier shot. Angle isn't too important, as the proper bullet will give full penetration, from most. An animal shot with cast, when they are not excited, will tend to stay pretty close to where they were hit, and die without a long tracking job.
Good hunting, and congratulations on stepping up to the true premium hunting and plinking bullets.

[Buckshot]

...........Brl, one thing to remember is that ALL game taken with a firearm was done with a lead boolit until the recent advent of jacketed ones. So you have maybe 500 years of hunting with lead vs a bit over 100 with jacketed.

Add to that that BP was the ONLY propellant also, and smokless appeared pretty much the same time as jacketed bullets. The new propellant being much more powerfull required the other to stand the higher velocities in the much reduced bore sizes.

You will also not find hunters who use cast lead thinking they have to drop the animal at 600 yards in order to be a 'Real Hunter'.

Understanding and working within the envelope of the cast boolit's ability is the name of the game. Same scenario as those who hunt during primitive season with muzzle loaders. As a ,atter of fact, this past Tuesday while at the range I mentioned to my shooting buddy and board member Deputy Al, that the next time I went deer hunting I would probably use my Trapdoor carbine.

It has iron sights, it will lob a 400 gr slug at about 1250 fps. Given these figures I'm pretty well limited to an off hand shot at about 50 yards, and one from a rest to maybe 100 yards. This is knowing my own limitations, and the vital area I have to hit. I have no doubt in the ability of a 400gr lead slug starting at that speed to do it's job well.

......................Buckshot

[KCSO]

Speaking for myself, Of all the big game I have dropped my average range is only 80 yards. My longest shot at a deer was just at 175 yards and i have shot deer as close as 25 FEET. I found out a long time ago that i didn't need a jacket slug with 3000 fp of energy to cleanly kill an animal at those ranges. For almost 20 years i hunted exclusivly with a round ball in a muzzleloader and carried jacketed slugs only when guiding, as a back up weapon. Lately I have been experimenting with cast slugs for harvesting game and have found no handicap in using a 30 cal 170 to 220 grain slug at from 1700 to 1950 fps. If I were an antelope hunter and looking only for a trophy I might not choose cast, but for putting meat on the table cast will do just fine.

In addition I am able to shoot my antique guns with less pressure and almost no bore wear and can pass those guns on to another generation just as I found them.

[Bass Ackward]

Brl,

One thing that isn't mentioned is that there is a section close to the bottom of the page where you will read discussion on top of discussion of using cast. There are different sytles of hunting with cast too. As long as you understand the limitations of these styles, you are on your way to more hunting enjoyment than you have here to far experienced. If it were not for cast, I would have probably quit hunting a long time ago.

Enjoy the reading.

[kodiak1]

Brl- As to what Buckshot stated that good old lead cast has been around a lot longer than Jacketed.
Hell they killed how many millions of buffalo alone.
How the bullet will work or respond is where you come into play, If you can place it where you want to and have a rifle or pistol that will put it there it will do the trick very well.
The expansion on lead is different than jacketed it don't make cutting edges like say a Barnes but will mushroom. That is controlled by the hardness of your casting mix.
You will find that if you do use lead you will have a lot less waste on your animal than with the jacketed bullets.
Ken.

[Brl]

Okay, a lot of useful information here. Thanks guys for the help!

[Larry Gibson]

Okay, a lot of useful information here. Thanks guys for the help!

Yes there was lot's of useful info there, let me add a little more. If you are buying the cast bullets and not casting your own take a look at the 170 gr GC Laser cast bullet from Oregon Trail. If you get them as for some loads to work up to here. Youshould get very acceptable hunting accuracy at close to 2000 fps for your '06. Inside 200 yards it will kill deer all day long if you put the bullet where it belongs. Also check out Midway for very good cast GC bullets with wide flat noses for the 41 and 44. They should have just what you are looking for if you can't find what you want at the other places mentioned.

Larry Gibson

[Brl]

Thanks Larry!!

[1Shirt]

Buckshot states it well! Keep the ranges reasonable use flat nosed blts, practice a lot, with what you intend to hunt, and you will put meat on the table very efficiently. Paco Kelly had a bit on one thread that says something to shooting at least one round in practice for every yard you think you might attempt a hunting shot. Good advise, only I am inclined to double it. Practice is good, and practice is fun. Note also that Buckshot talks about his own limitations, and that is good advise for any hunter regardless of shooting lead or copper. 1Shirt!