Show of hands 7x57A.I

[357maximum]

How many here shoot/load for the 7x57 A.I?

Simple show of hands and maybe your favorite load is all I seek.

So far I am 1.5 weeks into my use of mine on a very sporterized synthetic stocked "standard modell" 98 mauser with a reamed military stepped barrel and am liking it alot. I am shooting the speer 130grain boattail over 52+ grains of H4350 and liking it alot. 1/4 mile shots are a no brainer and I find it comparing real close to the 280REM's I used to own without as much recoil. I am happy and just wondering how many others like the round.

[StarMetal]

Mikey,

Tell me how it would have less recoil if you shoot the same load in a 280 Rem? From looking at the charts the 280 doesn't hold that much more powder you are loading. Now if one would shoot the 280 to maximum loads it may have a little more recoil, don't see how one could perceive the difference though. In firearms you don't get anything for nothing, you can't beat out the recoil factor if the same bullet weight is shot to about the same velocity with the same powder and nearly the same powder charge weight.

[Multigunner]

If the military stepped barrel and 98 action results in a half pound or so greater weight than that of the .280 rifles he has used earlier on ,then recoil would tend be a bit less.

[StarMetal]

Multigunner,

That's the only way I could come up with a difference in recoil too.

[Dan Cash]

The way it is stocked will surely affect felt recoil. How much powder in the 280? The propellant weight counts toward recoil.

[357maximum]

Joey

I am not a scientist, all I know is that it seems to kick less BY MY PERCEPTION. Maybe your mentor could explain sharp shoulder VS sloped shoulder recoil impulses to you, I cannot. I never said it was a free lunch, but sometimes you can get a slight discount.

[StarMetal]

Dunno Mikey...I always figured recoil was figured by the weight of the bullet, weight of the powder charge, and velocity. I would assume, to a degree, that same velocities would have nearly same pressures give or take some for different propellants. Of course the weight of the rifle has to do with it too. I don't see the shape of the shoulder angle affecting it to a noticeable degree. Was/is your 280 a modern rifle like say a Rem 700? I would think the stock shape would make you perceive a different recoil. Recoil pads make a difference too. Like I said there's not enough difference between the two cases to make that much difference. I own both the 7x57 and the 7mm-08 and they seem the same in recoil to me. The 7 Mag I had, had lots more recoil and it was also a lot heavier rifle too.

[357maximum]

joey

All of my 280's ( I have owned 6) were either Rem700's or Win70's all were shot at extreme upper limits(ask Bruce):smile:. All had custom mountain rifle taper barrels and all were foam filled glass stocks. This is a 98 with foam filled glass and a 23inch stepped barrel and is being shot at the upper limits. The difference in weight between all of them would be mere ounces.

IT SEEMS TO KICK LESS......not a statement to get your BVD's in a wadded bunch over is it??

[StarMetal]

joey

All of my 280's ( I have owned 6) were either Rem700's or Win70's all were shot at extreme upper limits(ask Bruce):smile:. All had custom mountain rifle taper barrels and all were foam filled glass stocks. This is a 98 with foam filled glass and a 23inch stepped barrel and is being shot at the upper limits. The difference in weight between all of them would be mere ounces.

IT SEEMS TO KICK LESS......not a statement to get your BVD's in a wadded bunch over is it??

No you're reading me wrong Mikey. I now see what the 280 kicked more. For one loading to the upper limits that round kicks on the 7 Mag, you had a very light weight barrel, and sounds like the stock was very light. Heck no wonder why in comparing it too your 7x57. Now put those two in the same weight and style stock, with same weight barrels, and shoot the same velocity with the same bullet weight, you probably wouldn't notice.

By the way my 7mm-08 kicks more then the 7x57 because it's a Sako Mannlicher carbine and only weighs 7-7.5 pounds loaded, scoped, and slinged. The 7x57 is on a scoped Model 70 Winchester Featherweight and it's lots heavier.

[357maximum]

Maybe post[smilie=l: #11 will actually make it on the tracks of intention.[smilie=l:

[MT Gianni]

I wish, sounds like a great chambering, got pics?

[Newtire]

I hear you on the felt recoil vs actual. Some of the 30-30's I shot in the past seemed to kick a lot worse than my old Springfield '06. The sharp drop of the stock accounts for a little more felt recoil since it is not spread out over so great an area when it smacks you. After all, force=pressure X area. It's a fact.

I have the smallerized version of that 7mm Ackley in the form of the .257 AI. It is a pretty incredible cartridge. I have an AI in .30-30 but not something I'd run out and buy again.

[Multigunner]

My .303 Enfields kick alot worse than the .30-06 Garand I once had, even when I used 168 gr AP in the '06.
A 1893 7mm long rifle I had many years ago kicked like a mule , more than Garand or Enfields, despite its considerable weight.

Perceived recoil can be quite different from actual recoil forces measured in Ft Lbs.

Even a difference in length of pull , or grip angle, can put the shooter in a less advantagious position and increase perceived recoil.

[357maximum]

I do alot of my long range steelplate sniping from the prone position using bipods. That tends to amplify recoil differences (IN MY OPINION) quite a bit. My worse "kicker" rifle with full house loads is my marlin 336 in 35 rem...something in the stock design makes it hurt alot mo worser er er.;-)

[Von Gruff]

Seems you are the only one with the 7x57AI though. I started with the standard chamber and wanted the AI in the early 80's but went with the 7x61S&H instead for a few years till getting back to the 7x57. Have a beauty now and get the 120gn GS HV bullet to 3237fps over 51gn BL-C2 and accuracy that is very good confidence builder. Run a 160gn Woodleigh to 2700 with 46gn H4350 and a softnosed cast 160gn to 2415 that has proved very sucessful on goat - deer sized animals. Cant see the need for the AI version now for my needs but it still niggles at the back of my mind from time to time.

Von Gruff.

[badgeredd]

Dunno Mikey...I always figured recoil was figured by the weight of the bullet, weight of the powder charge, and velocity.

Just a thought here BUT if as you say Joe recoil is combination of the three...then wouldn't make sense that if one uses less powder with the same bullet to achieve the same velocity, the recoil impulse would also be less?

Case in point, the 280 requires more 4350 than the 7 MM AI to achieve the same velocity for the 130 grain bullet.

Edd :twisted:

[Newtire]

Just a thought here BUT if as you say Joe recoil is combination of the three...then wouldn't make sense that if one uses less powder with the same bullet to achieve the same velocity, the recoil impulse would also be less?

Case in point, the 280 requires more 4350 than the 7 MM AI to achieve the same velocity for the 130 grain bullet.

Edd :twisted:
I hear ya Edd but think that the felt recoil has to do with how big of an area you spread that recoil out over. I guess you could think of it like if you would attach a pool cue to the back of the stock and let that hit your shoulder as opposed to letting the whole area of the buttplate touch your shoulder. In the case of a few rifles that I have, it has to do with the drop of the stock and how I hold the rifle as to how much of the buttplate pushes on my shoulder in a direct line.

[badgeredd]

I hear ya Edd but think that the felt recoil has to do with how big of an area you spread that recoil out over. I guess you could think of it like if you would attach a pool cue to the back of the stock and let that hit your shoulder as opposed to letting the whole area of the buttplate touch your shoulder. In the case of a few rifles that I have, it has to do with the drop of the stock and how I hold the rifle as to how much of the buttplate pushes on my shoulder in a direct line.

Absolutely correct, IMHO. I also have a 7x57 AI with a light stock that seems to be much gentler than my 280 that has a factory wood stock (read it is heavier). Stock design and recoil pressure area definitely affect "FELT" recoil.

Edd

[Old Goat Keeper]

I have read somewhere that faster burning powders tent to give a quick pressure curve versus slower burn powders and that makes the recoil shorter and more pronounced. The slower powder stretches the recoil out of a longer time if I read it correctly.

Tom

[pmeisel]

7x57 AI sounds neat to me, and I am rifle shopping this summer....

[Got-R-Did]

I recently found a Win. 70, synthetic stocked 7X57 AI in a local shop. It is on layaway now, and comes with 100 fireformed cases. I look forward to shooting her. The previous owner died before he could do much more than form the cases. Now to find some cast boolits.
Got-R-Did

[clearwater]

I inherited my Mom's. It is a short action rem 722 so I have to seat bullets pretty
deep. It is very handy with a 22" barrel. Don't have a good load for it yet.

What powder would folks suggest for 140 grain partitions?

[357maximum]

I have been having excellent luck with H414, H4350 and H100V Hybrid in the 7x57Ackley.



I am really really liking the H100V hybrid with 4 different j-word bullets...the 120ballistic tips, the old 120 SSP version, speer 130 grain boattails and the 140Horn Interlocks. H100V is a really good compromise between ball and stick powders and goes through the RCBS measure like green grass through a goose. I think this will be THEE powder for this rifle as the local dealer has H100V 8lbs for $120 so that will be the likely course I take.

I took my load (work up to this load very cautiously please) of 52.0 grains of H100V and the discontinued 120Gr Horn SSP bullets and laid prone in my yard the other day. I was shooting off bipods with no rear support other than my self and kept 29 out of 30 in a 3.75 inch steel plate at 440 yards. This was with an old Tasco 3X9X32 scope simply resting the point of the duplex on the bottom of the plate at a full 1/4 mile.......nothing fancy going on here, but darn effective. The 7x57 A.I seems to be a really well behaved round and about 335 fired rounds into this caliber I am tickled and giddy with it. I have also turned 2 woodchucks into porridge with it, one @70 yards and one @ 242 yards....I like this caliber.:bigsmyl2:

I also have some cast boolits from a dear friend on the way.........this should also prove to be fun.

[xringshutr]

Well, I'm reviving this thread in hopes of stimulating some more conversation on the 7x57 AI. I just purchased a really nice sporterized Mauser with a 24" Shilen barrel, new highly polished bluing, contoured trigger guard, jewelled bolt, etc., etc. Rifle was only fired 5 times by the gunsmith to check the chamber dimensions.

I will be looking for a good mold for this baby, but am concentrating on J-word bullets for now. I fire formed 20 cases a couple days ago and the factory 7x57's chambered very tightly. They formed excellent though!! I have always read that an AI chamber works best when factory ammo is on the tight side as far as headspace, but these actually push the shoulder down and round it slightly. Accuracy is about 1" at 100 yds; and it was starting to get dark that evening.

I will probably be sticking with 150 gr Speer HC bullets, as I have a bunch of them from a close out sale a few years back. Couldn't pass up $68/1000 and I didn't even own a 7mm at the time. :grin:

My question is: What powder have you had the best luck with in the AI, and what velocity increase have you seen in comparison to the good ol' standard 7x57? I'm not looking to push the limits, just want to know realistic improvement in the speed category.

I will probably load some 120's for my son too. This rifle is around 9 lbs and should be a nice, low recoil piece for a 12 yr old to shoot when I take him deer hunting. Any recommendations for 120's would be appreciated too.

Thanks!

[Bass Ackward]

If your bore is smooth, 4350 class will win out. I see Maxy liked H450, but I found that to be too spiky in the sharp shouldered case that improved burn rate.

If your bore is on the rougher side as most new barrels would qualify, 4831 classes may do best until it cleans up and 4350 takes over. I used 48.5 grain (IMR) with 150 class.

You have the barrel length to do pretty much anything you want though. So don't pigeon hole.

What you see velocity wise will depend on how you loaded each. Since we roded the standard 7, I would say 100 fps was practical. If you used standard 7MM pressures, then you will be quite happy with the pick up.

[xringshutr]

Thanks for the pointers. I have some test loads worked up with AA 4350 and H414 to start with this weekend. I figure one of those should work pretty well. If not, the testing will continue. If any of you are interested I'll post results when further testing is done. Should be a fun one to work on. Not my first wildcat, but this one has my interest. The 7x57 just has so much history and I am finding out why it was a popular cartridge in its day. Its too bad popularity has dropped off.

[atr]

I own four 7x57's....I have always thought it was a very good cartridge....its more popular than you think,,,especially with people who know their guns !!
I dont own a AI 7x57, but I have found that IMR4350 gives excellent accuracy in the standard 7x57, I would bet it would also do well with the AI. Since the case capacity of the AI is greater I think IMR 4831 might also work

[chief3]

Well said , atr. I have owned more rifles over the last 50yrs. than I can remember and the 7X57 is the best all round caliber I've ever used.
As for loads, any powder slower than 4064 seems to work . My favorite rifle, a sporterized 95 Chilean I picked up 35yrs ago, will shoot j word bullets from 130 grs. to 175 grs. well.
As for cast boolits , take your pick. I have had good luck with several I tried. Can't make up my mind on which mold to buy yet.
either the 7X57 or the A I version are just great.

[runfiverun]

my ackley's prefer rl-19. i started at 50gr and 139 grs and went on up to match velocity to the bullets construction. 2850 or thereabouts is a good muzzle velocity for standard bullets.
h-414 is spoken of very highly also.
and the lighter [100-120]bullets have done right fine at over 3k with 4895, for varmints.

with cast one of the three molds i have [145,155,and 168] does very well in thier respective rifles it's all a throat thing.
but 2400 is thier powder of choice, followed by 4895.

[xringshutr]

I'll let you all know how things pan out. I have some 4350 loads worked up and some AA 2700 (Very close to H414 and I just happen to have 3 lbs of it) loads. Loading 150's to start then trying the little 120's with 4895 for my son. Thanks for all your input on where to begin. This rifle shows promise, as the fire forming loads are grouping into less than an inch. And this if from factory PRVI ammo. Not particularly accurate stuff out of the box. Brass seems good though.