Educate me about Black Powder, please.

[Recluse]

My experience with black powder is limited and old. I had an early roommate in the service who bought some black powder pistols because at age 19, it was all he could legally buy.

I remember we did a lot of shooting with them, and I remember him cleaning them up in the bathtub and the place ended up smelling worse than it did after we'd had several bowls of my home-brewed Texas chili. :)

These were muzzle loaders, I guess, as we had to pour the powder into the cylinder chambers, stick a wad down there, then cram the ball in, then smear some Crisco grease all around. I remember this being important so that you didn't get a "chamber fire" which I guess is what happens when all the cylinders try to fire at once?

Anyhow, I'm kinda/sorta interested in maybe dipping a toe into the waters of black powder shooting.

I'm also interested in being able to "pre-load" BP loads in cartridges--but I don't know how feasible it is. Where do you get the brass, what kind of primers do you use, where do you find the loads, etc etc?

Same thing as far as the muzzle loading pistols, and do they make BP pistols that fire BP cartridges?

Basically, I don't really know a damn thing about black powder but for some reason am starting to get the itch. Combination of old age and falling testosterone levels, I guess.

Anyhow, appreciate any and all info.

Thanks.

:coffee:

[philthephlier]

Fillipietta copy of the Remington 1858 in either 5-1/2" or full 8" barrel is a great place to start. From Cabelas on sale the gun is usually about 200 dollars. Conversion cylinder in 45 Colt will run about 270 bucks. Very accurate with .454 round balls in the 8" barrel. Adequate accuracy with 45 Colt cartridge loads in a conversion cylinder. Don't load the cartridges hot. 35 grains of 3F in a 45 Colt and a 200 gr. Lyman .452 SWC or equivalent will surprise you with it's power. Same charge for the percussion loads with .454 RB. Read a bunch of threads in the black powder and black powder cartridge sections of the forum. You'll get a quick education that keep the learning curve short. They are a lot of fun for sure and amazingly capable. If cash isn't an issue a Uberti in SS, also the 1858 Remington model is a very nice way to go. That gun will run about $400.

[philthephlier]

www.ableammo.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=15146_15087_16843

[oldhickory]

Wow, that's a rather broad subject, Recluse. I know a little bit about the revolvers, less about round ball guns, enough about cartridge to keep my 1884 Springfield happy, (it was issued to Co. M, 3rd Texas Volunteers in 1898, BTW[smilie=s:). My field of real experiance is with the riflemuskets firing the Burton boolits, (correct name for our U.S. issue Minie boolits used during the war of Northern agression).

What kind of BP gun has your interest?

[Wayne Smith]

Black Powder Cartridge and front loaders are different animals. Loose powder in one or paper cartridges and relatively common, normal cartridges loaded BP in the other. I load my 44-40's in BP simply because that's the original load. Mine are Uberti's - copy of Colt and Winchester 1873 Short rifle.

[docone31]

I like them. More fun than cartridge pistols. My wife has fired my Walker, and I got her a .44 Navy.
I like the smell, smoke, power, and the feel. They are different than revolvers of modern tilt. I got her a .54 Dimmick. She fires that rifle at the range. People do watch her. She is pretty good. I have a roofer who drops off Roof Boots so I have a supply of lead.
Keep em clean, and they work.

[Don McDowell]

Not much to it really. If you have a revolver or rifle chambered for "straightwalled" cartridges all you need do is get some cast bullets lubed with bp lube. Then prime those cartridges as normal, fill the case with 2f bp until the bullet will make firm contact with the powder. Chamber and shoot. Clean up the bore of the gun and the cases with hot soapy water. Oil the gun after its dry, dry the cases and tumble polish them if you like.
Then do it all over again.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?board=31.0
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?board=18.0
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=19.0

Sam

[Dale53]

I have a good background in both muzzle loaders and black powder cartridge rifles as well as BPC revolvers.

The easiest way to get involved in black powder is to buy your favorite flavor of modern single action revolver. I am a Ruger fan so would recommend a good .45 Colt Black hawk or even the new .44 Special Blackhawk.

Then get a copy of Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Colt Single Actions". It has all of the requisite information for successful shooting of BPC revolvers (Rugers work pretty much like Colt's but you can afford a Ruger[smilie=w:). I have shot my .45 Colt Bisley Vaquero in a LOT of black powder matches with some little success. Black powder requires a different mind set and a different set of "rules" compared to smokeless powder. Mike's book has the details that count.

I shouldn't have been surprised but after shooting that combination a goodly amount I discovered what a relative power house the black powder .45 Colt is/was. :

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/RugerVaquero-2.jpg

Good shooting!
Dale53

[Tom-ADC]

I have seven cap & ball pistols from .31 cal to a Walker, 3 muzzle loading rifles and two 45-70 rifles, once you try it its really hard not to love it..

[Springfield]

If you go the cartridge route make sure you use bullets with BP type lube. The crayon hard lube for smokeless doesn't do the job nearly as well, causing a more difficult clean-up and wrecking accuracy as well if the barrel gets all fouled out. I prefer the Big Lube line of bullets, but then I am prejudiced as I sell them. But for me they just made everything much easier. They even make some for cap and ball guns. I use mostly Colt clones, and prefer my 1872 Open tops the most, but my 1873 SAA's work fine too. Lots of info over at cas city on the blackpowder forum.

[Recluse]

What kind of BP gun has your interest?

Honestly, I'm not quite sure.

I've handled the revolvers--I guess they would be cap and balls? You poured the powder in, wad, put the round ball or bullet in, used the lever compression device, then smeared Crisco in the chamber hole. Then repeated five more times if you were going to shoot them all, or four more times if you were headed home.

Oh yeah, and you had "nipples" that the primers fit over on the cylinder.

The Air Force roommate had a .36 caliber Navy something or the other, and a .44. He kept telling me how powerful and how bad the kick was on it, but having learned to shoot .44's on the Ruger Super Blackhawks, I wasn't too impressed with the kick or bang on that blow powder pistol.

Hell, I thought it shot smooth and comfortable compared to my old SBH.

He also had a muzzle loader rifle--I think it was a Hawkins .54 caliber, if that sounds right? We're talking over 30 years ago, so I might be mistaken.

Guess I'm kinda starting to get an itch to get a couple of cap and ball revolvers. I have no earthly idea why, but kind of have the itch.

I just don't know a darn thing about anything black powder, so I figured I'd start poking around and reading and trying to learn a bit.

Appreciate all the feedback and information and recommendations.

:coffee:

[stubshaft]

I recently picked up a new Ruger Old Army for a number of reasons;

A) They are not making them anymore.

B) I had one once and regretted selling it.(It was one of the most accurate pistols that I ever owned)

C) Sometimes I just want to go to the range and relax. I can shoot at the pace I want for less cost than a cartridge gun. Do my load developement while at the range and experiment with different loobs and boolits.

[nicholst55]

I'd suggest that you do some reading before you lay down any money for anything besides books. Midway or many other online sources have books that will give you some insight into the world of BP. I'd also suggest calling some local gun clubs to see if they have a muzzle loading group, and hook up with them. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to share some knowledge with you.

A "friend" gave me a T/C Hawken .50, and I immediately dropped over $200 on supplies and accessories. I eventually bought a rifle that I liked better than the T/C, and returned it to him. Now I have four ML rifles, an ML shotgun, and two C&B revolvers! That stuff is addictive!

Loading BP for metallic cartridges is a bit more challenging than shooting smokeless, but I find it infinitely more satisfying. I'm looking to get into shooting paper patched boolits in my .45-70, now. I do 90% of my hunting with a traditional, sidelock muzzle loader, shooting a patched round ball and real black powder these days.

Here's something to look at:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#black%20powder%20books____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=121867

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=860085

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=599374

[NickSS]

Cap and ball revolvers are a lot of fun (i got about a dozen of them). They all load the same in goes the powder then ball you can lube with a greased felt wad or lube over the ball or both. Percussion cap on a nipple at the back and fire away. The best revolver you can buy is the Ruger Old Army. Of the replicas I like Remingtons followed by a Rogers and Spencer they the various Colt clones. For cartridge shooting I like my Uberti Colt SAA Model P revolvers in 45 Colt fill the case with FFFG leaving a little room so the bullet compresses the powder a 1/16 to 1/8 inch when seated and you will really know what a hand gun should feel like when it goes off. As for loading black powder cartridges you load them the same as you do the 45 revolver cartridges. Fill the case enough so the bullet seating will compress the powder and you are good to go. Loading for extreme accuracy at long range requires more careful loading but is still basically the same. You need to use a good black powder lube such as SPG or various home brew types that you can find on this forum.

[Southern Son]

Recluse,
I am in the same boat as you with the C&B revolvers. I would love to get one. But if it is anything like the BPCR, then I can't afford it. It will take over your life.

[RMulhern]

You need to read and lurk here for about a year and also over on the Shiloh forum and THEN......you'll have a vague idea of the world of BLACKPOWDER!! I could write a book on your question but there's just too much casting/loading/shooting to be done for that!!

[Southern Son]

Dale, I forgot to mention, that revolver takes my breath away.

[wild thing]

Do not start out cheap. Buy the Lyman black powder loading book then read it . Buy a good pistol and read the instructions and follow them. Cleaning them is not that bad or hard, but must be done correctly or it may rust. Cartridge powder uns are a different animal takes a lot of research but it is also a lot of fun. Go to the range and see if anyone is shooting the black stuff and ask questions they will almost always be willing to help you get started.

[Wayne Smith]

Let me mention that my wife shoots as well or better than I. She was familiar with my SIG and less than impressed by the construction of it. When I pulled the LeMat out of the box and showed it to her and how it functioned her comment was "Wow! That's good engineering!" Simply to say - don't underestimate either the design or the quality of those old designs. My Rogers and Spencer is one of my most accurate revolvers - bar none.

[Dale53]

Southern Son;
>>>Dale, I forgot to mention, that revolver takes my breath away. <<<

That sir, is a box stock Ruger Vaquero with a set of after market grips. I did do a trigger job on it. It shoots extremely well with the Lyman 452664 bullet with Emmert's Home Mix lube (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola Oil) and the black powder of your choice. I won a bunch of matches with it (Black Powder Cartridge matches, both silhouette AND score matches). Right out of the box, the Vaquero shoots to the sights at 25 yards. It will consistently do under 2" with black at 25 yards and considerably better with smokeless.

This is the quintessential field pistol with a 250 gr bullet ahead of black or a good load of Unique. Of course, since it is the LARGE frame Ruger, you can also load "Ruger only" loads for real horsepower.

After shooting this a good bit with black, I gained great respect for the original .45 Colt with black powder. It was and IS a powerhouse. When you consider that it was developed in 1873 (the cartridge) it gained even more respect in my eyes.

Thanks for the kind words...

FWIW
Dale53

[Flinchrock]

Honestly, I'm not quite sure.

I've handled the revolvers--I guess they would be cap and balls? You poured the powder in, wad, put the round ball or bullet in, used the lever compression device, then smeared Crisco in the chamber hole. Then repeated five more times if you were going to shoot them all, or four more times if you were headed home.

Oh yeah, and you had "nipples" that the primers fit over on the cylinder.

The Air Force roommate had a .36 caliber Navy something or the other, and a .44. He kept telling me how powerful and how bad the kick was on it, but having learned to shoot .44's on the Ruger Super Blackhawks, I wasn't too impressed with the kick or bang on that blow powder pistol.

Hell, I thought it shot smooth and comfortable compared to my old SBH.

He also had a muzzle loader rifle--I think it was a Hawkins .54 caliber, if that sounds right? We're talking over 30 years ago, so I might be mistaken.

Guess I'm kinda starting to get an itch to get a couple of cap and ball revolvers. I have no earthly idea why, but kind of have the itch.

I just don't know a darn thing about anything black powder, so I figured I'd start poking around and reading and trying to learn a bit.

Appreciate all the feedback and information and recommendations.

:coffee:

Wander on over to the muzzleloading forum .com ,,,http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php great place to find out all ya wanna know. Yer gonna be reading all night,,and they have a good classified section too. Ya gotta register but it's free and worth the time, se ya there!